Apex Legends developers spark outrage after calling gamers “dicks”, “ass-hats”and “freeloaders”

[SaberVS7]

Gamers: Why is Apex so unsupported compared to Fortnite?

Devs: *Try to raise the revenue necessary to be able to support the game*

Gamers: WOW WHAT GREEDY FUCKS

sorrynotsorry, but this is my take. Y'all know what you're signing up for when you play F2P games. And FFS, these are just skins, not P2W stuff like Weapons or Stat Boosts. The time to complain was when Fortnite set the prices.

Now of course there is some room to complain on the game using lootboxes. Even Epic is above that - Even if Fortnite's store model could actually be seen as worse by exploiting FOMO instead of Gambling.

 

[PaulloDEC]

I don't see anything wrong with what was said. "Freeloaders" was clearly used in jest, and anyone who actually takes offense at the word "asshat" might be beyond help.

 

[Natiko]

I'm more worried about how the dev is going to be targeted now that he said that.

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I think in general that's always a fear with this industry.

 

[Xavi]

"Horrible look for Respawn " OP, what?

 

[Torian]

These so called "freeloaders" are crucial for any f2p.
They are the ones the whales can play against. Shaming people who don't pay in a f2p game is not how you build or maintain good will with your community.

 

[Pryme]

The OP is actually upset that toxic behavior is getting a backlash now?

IIRC the Reddit community he was participating in wasn't harassing him, the asshat comment was a meta commentary on the outrage people had over their decision to put in those skins in lootboxes. And IMHO was in poor taste and completely missed the mark.

So while you are going to get edge case agreements that gamers are asshats, I think on a broader level, the We're sorry, not sorry post from the Apex dev is probably mistaken and is just going to feed the fire that their publisher, EA, doesn't give a fudge and just want money. The asshat gamers aren't the ones they are talking to right then and there.

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He was clearly referring to the toxic comments they've been receiving. Not to everyone reading their comments on reddit.

Fully in support of the devs here.

 

[jaekeem]

the loudest angriest gamers are really shitty and I feel for devs, but you can't lose your cool and communicate with your consumer base that way. you're just gonna ignite those idiots and others even more

 

[Gotdatmoney]

What's with the rush of people on the first page rushing to post "They're right tho! I'm with the dev!"?

Yeah some "gamers" are incredibly obnoxious but there's this weird slant on era lately where people just seem to be rushing to dump on the gamers/customers in any story like this no matter the context that I find really odd.

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The dev is right. The team making Apex Legends addressed the criticism of their model. They will make changes going forward. We'll see how the changes work but the first step is the addressed the issue. All the horseshit that immediately followed is unacceptable.

This is a fucking business. I don't get why some of you don't get this. They do not have any obligation to do anything other than make money. FTP games are paid for by a small group of people who spend money. Everyone else gets the core game for free. Most people are not buying shit whether its $20 or $2. The game is going to be structured as such. That's how it works. If you hate the model you're free to talk about that respectfully but you aren't entitled to shit on a developer and harass them because your mad about their practice. Especially you aren't even paying anything for the game you are playing to begin with.

 

[Xx 720]

Kinda think it's unfair to call the developers money grabbing fucks when the game is free??? Who cares about the cost of added stuff, u dont ever have to buy them.

 

[Charcoal]

Can't we go just one day without the man-children of the gaming community acting like man-children?

 

[jon bones]

i expect them to get death threats from gamers, proving them right

 

[Kyuuji]

How much does one have to spend interacting with the pricing model and supporting the game before you're allowed to have an opinion on the pricing model overextending?

The messages from Reddit are trash but this sentiment of "its free shut up" that goes around is bizarre.

 

[GamerForever]

played hundreds of hours and never used a dollar. Guess I am a free loader. These toxic statements made sure I wont spend any money in the future. Was probably never anyway because I hate loot boxes

 

[carlosrox]

Go get 'em Respawn! I hope they don't back down. The amount of entitlement people online feel for products these days is ridiculous. Companies have every right to do what they think is best for whatever they want to create and don't owe anyone anything.

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I agree with this but then you have stuff like butchering the Doom ports in various ways, the Silent Hill Collection, etc,

and it's like developers/publishers should listen to the fanbase when they actually have something good to say and bring it up in a respectful manner.

People are gonna end up getting mad if they feel ignored.


Not excusing that guy's comments either obviously. He came off like a douchebag.

 

[HockeyBird]

Freeloader is a bit much. But asshat....well if the ass fits...

 

[ShinUltramanJ]

What caught my eye is the comment regarding the research they've done suggests few people actually pay for skins, and those that do will continue to do so regardless of price.

I mean, that's just admitting that you're taking advantage of your customers. I'm sure some will say they don't blame Respawn, but that still doesn't make it okay.

 

[Nacho]

I mean, people literally harass devs now for shit like this. We just had a whole thread showing the harrassment of a dev that went exclusive to egs and so many people seemed to have their eyes opened to this. I'm not surprised that devs won't forever play the lunching back happy or people when they're getting messages at every turn full of vitriol and hate if not worse.

And the guy he called a dick, was a dick as far as I can tell, he sounded pretty toxic and when he was called out gave a weak ass "bu-bu- I didn't meant it! I don't condone this behavior!"

The freeloaders was an unnecessary jab, but technically not innacurate.

As forthe talk about doing studies on skin prices and such... Well idk the skin prices are higher than over seen in any other game that isn't like a gacha game. I'd like to see them at least have lower prices options if they're dead set on targeting whales

 

[Wamb0wneD]

I'm pretty tired of the cycle that's increasingly common in games discussion:

General gaming public: so there's this new thing and it's kind of bad maybe
Really angry gamers: FUCK THIS NEW THING IT'S TERRIBLE CHANGE IT BACK NOW, YOU SHOULD KILL YOURSELVES
Developers after receiving hundreds of these comments: Man, fuck this, gamers can be assholes sometimes
Really angry gamers: HOLY SHIT NEWS FLASH DEVELOPERS OF GAME THINK GAMERS ARE ASSHOLES, HERE ARE MANY DEATH THREATS THAT YOU DESERVE BECAUSE YOU BLASPHEMED AGAINST GAMER NATION

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General gaming public: so there's this new thing and it's pretty bad.
Really angry gamers: FUCK THIS NEW THING IT'S TERRIBLE CHANGE IT BACK NOW.
Developers after receiving hundreds of these comments: Man, fuck this, let's only focus on the people being toxic and not on the problem being adressed. Let's also get unprofessional while doing so.
Part of the community tripping over themselves to look reasonable: HOLY SHIT NEWS FLASH DEVELOPERS OF GAME THINK GAMERS ARE ASSHOLES. LET'S ESCALATE BY MENTIONING DEATH THREATS EVEN WHEN THERE HAVEN'T BEEN MADE ANY IN THIS SITUATION.
General gaming public: Uh yeah about that thing that's pretty bad...
Part of the community tripping over themselves to look reasonable: SHUT UP, THERE ARE MORE IMPORTANT THINGS HAPPENING, LIKE THE DEVS GETTING HARASSED. STOP BEING TOXIC.

 

[Deleted member 56306]

These so called "freeloaders" are crucial for any f2p.
They are the ones the whales can play against. Shaming people who don't pay in a f2p game is not how you build or maintain good will with your community.

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I don't think the dev "shamed" anyone for not paying the game, they made a f2p game and understand that not everyone is capable of paying for stuff and said as much with the "and we love that," parentheses at the end of "freeloaders".

 

[Cow Mengde]

The guy is right to call people out. People are also right to call out their prices. The toxicity feeds off of each other between developer and gamer.

 

[RPGamer]

I mean are they wrong? "Anything from you in the future can die"

Like I get that people don't like micro transactions. But nah, fuck these dumbass gamers.

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I wouldn't call 20 Dollar Skins "micro" anymore. Not that it warrants the tone of the guy complaining about the prices, but the dev isn't that much better i think. Also depending on some few whales for your living is something worth criticizing, they just shouldn't do it in such a toxic way (but with the dev responding like that it won't get better i fear)

 

[Einbroch]

The dev is right. The team making Apex Legends addressed the criticism of their model. They will make changes going forward. We'll see how the changes work but the first step is the addressed the issue. All the horseshit that immediately followed is unacceptable.

This is a fucking business. I don't get why some of you don't get this. They do not have any obligation to do anything other than make money. FTP games are paid for by a small group of people who spend money. Everyone else gets the core game for free. Most people are not buying shit whether its $20 or $2. The game is going to be structured as such. That's how it works. If you hate the model you're free to talk about that respectfully but you aren't entitled to shit on a developer and harass them because your mad about their practice. Especially you aren't even paying anything for the game you are playing to begin with.

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This. Right. Here.

Even if the skins were half the price, the amount of people buying them wouldn't move that much, and their profits would tank. A huge majority of people who don't spend won't spend no matter the price.

 

[Proven]

While I think 20 dollars or however much they are charging is way too much for a skin, I can also sympathize if what they're saying is true where not a lot of people pay for skins so they have to charge high prices to counteract that.

I was also thinking well they probably should just release a game for 60 dollars but then I remembered titanfall 2 was a great game but underperformed.

I don't think the devs should be going on subreddits and calling their players dicks, but I am 100% aware that fan bases are extremely entitled and what he's saying is probably true, but you just can't say it.

Now there's going to be a bunch of stories where the headline is "Respawn dev lashes out at fans" and it makes everything worse. There's a lot going on.

 

[bane833]

I see they already adopted EAs corporate philosophy. Just that the rest of this shady corporation is at least smart enough to not openly say it.

 

[Nome]

I'm always tickled by posters saying devs should have better PR when they speak candidly, and then saying devs should be honest when they use PR.
I know it's not the same folks and all, but it just proves you can't satisfy everyone.

Re: the dev's post, they're mostly right. Conversion can be affected by price points, but the percentage of converters is mostly stable. Lowering the price point of a skin isn't automatically going to unlock a tidal wave of new people buying things, much to the chagrin of all the posters in the other Apex thread who clearly have never even installed the game and were commenting about event pricing.

 

[zoltek]

Unless OP is the Journo that wrote the piece they just copied the title of the linked article

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You are absolutely correct. I missed that. It is a journalist clickbait title then, just not one created by the OP. My apologies.

 

[benj]

I'll defend the pricing. I've never bought a skin from their store. I have spent $20 on Apex in the ~250 hours I've played—$10 on this season's battlepass, $10 on Apex coins shortly after the game came out.

The skins are way too expensive for me to consider buying. That doesn't make them priced 'wrong', that doesn't mean that Respawn is a bunch of idiots for pricing the skins outside of a range that I'd consider buying, it doesn't make Respawn 'predatory'. The skins seem to be intended for an audience that I am not a part of, so I do not buy them. I can't imagine being mad at Respawn from this position.

If you think that f2p games that keep the lights on by selling skins are bad, don't support them. Buy games at full price, don't add to the playerbase count for the evil, evil f2p games, and try to push the industry model back toward up-front costs. If you think there's another pricing model that would work better for players and devs, advocate for that. But the idea that Respawn is evil because they have a pricing model that lets you play a fully-featured game, for free, for ever, but that also has some luxury items that you don't want to pay for, seems incredibly obtuse.

and yeah, the dev said nothing wrong

 

[chrominance]

General gaming public: so there's this new thing and it's pretty bad.
Really angry gamers: FUCK THIS NEW THING IT'S TERRIBLE CHANGE IT BACK NOW.
Developers after receiving hundreds of these comments: Man, fuck this, let's only focus on the people being toxic and not on the problem being adressed. Let's also get unprofessional while doing so.
Part of the community tripping over themselves to look reasonable: HOLY SHIT NEWS FLASH DEVELOPERS OF GAME THINK GAMERS ARE ASSHOLES. LET'S ESCALATE BY MENTIONING DEATH THREATS EVEN WHEN THERE HAVEN'T BEEN MADE ANY IN THIS SITUATION.
General gaming public: Uh yeah about that thing that's pretty bad...
Part of the community tripping over themselves to look reasonable: SHUT UP THE DEVS ARE GETTING HARASSED. STOP BEING TOXIC.

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I'm not sure if you thought this would change my mind, but you may be surprised to find that it did not!

 

[Kyuuji]

This. Right. Here.

Even if the skins were half the price, the amount of people buying them wouldn't move that much, and their profits would tank. A huge majority of people who don't spend won't spend no matter the price.

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Again, how much does one have to spend supporting the game before you're allowed to actually voice a concern that they're overextending in their pricing model?

 

[Kinthey]

The guy is right to call people out. People are also right to call out their prices. The toxicity feeds off of each other between developer and gamer.

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Yep. Unfortunately are the most toxic voices always the loudest.

 

[ProstatePuncher]

No issue with the devs speaking like that when you look at the average response they got to this event. Sure, its overpriced and ridiculous, but also, there's no need for some of the maximum idiocy we see in response to it. Just say the pricing is crap and walk away, go play something else, or keep playing Apex but don't engage in the spending ritual of microtransactions.

 

[Deleted member 13370]

edit

 

[Einbroch]

Again, how much does one have to spend supporting the game before you're allowed to actually voice a concern that they're overextending in their pricing model?

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There is a huge difference in saying "I think these skins are too expensive/I don't like this system" and "FUCKING EA GREEDY ASSHOLES DEAD GAME MONEY GRUBBING FUCKS".

Look at the last image posted in the OP. Responded to rationally because it was a rational take.

 

[Pat_DC]

Sure, I dont doubt its really toxic. Still doesnt make what they said correct and honestly the pricing of apex deserves a lot of push back. The "dev is right" sentiment just seems to want to move past they did something worth being mad about and their conduct afterwards is just sinking to a toxic level as well

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It's not about moving past anything, you can complain and engage with devs and the community in a normal way that doesn't end up becoming insulting. On reddit communities I've seen some great and well thought out posts that look at an issue and give solid ideas and feedback. Though these get drowned out by gamers rise up craziness.

So complain and make comments just don't be a dick and insulting about it.

 

[Kyuuji]

There is a huge difference in saying "I think these skins are too expensive/I don't like this system" and "FUCKING EA GREEDY ASSHOLES DEAD GAME MONEY GRUBBING FUCKS".

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Yes but the sentiment of "it's free, shut up" is applied in either case.

 

[bane833]

There is a huge difference in saying "I think these skins are too expensive/I don't like this system" and "FUCKING EA GREEDY ASSHOLES DEAD GAME MONEY GRUBBING FUCKS".

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But EA are greedy money grubbing fucks.

 

[HK-47]

This will end well

 

[benj]

Again, how much does one have to spend supporting the game before you're allowed to actually voice a concern that they're overextending in their pricing model?

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I'm not really sure how you get here from the post you quoted.

There is, to my knowledge, absolutely zero publicly-available information suggesting that they are 'overextending' in their pricing model. What is this view based on?

 

[Gotdatmoney]

yeah, seriously.

It would be very, very cool if people who play games would maybe start from the position that, even though some choice on the dev's part (be it related to pricing, balance, feature release, game design, whatever) may be opaque to them, that the devs were possibly, maybe, operating with some context or information that players don't have. the absolute blithering self-surety that people bring into their criticisms of every process that isn't 100% convenient for them, personally, is staggering

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Yup, 100% agree. And even if you disagree, can people do so without actually like a total asshole about it? The developers obviously want to have a dialogue, they don't want to get a million messages about how shit a person they are. No one here would like that, why do we put "but they are manipulative . . ." as an excuse for your own behavior?

It's a joke.

 

[cakely]

After reading the posts, it looks like I agree with the developers.

 

[Hzsn724]

Well what did u you really think? Playing a game for absolutely free then crying about a $20 skin that you don't have to buy makes your argument? Sure the saeaon passes...ohhh the season passes....

The dev is right on the mark with this one. Your game is free. You are complaining about nothing. How about go buy a game and get fucked over or better yet go back a game on Kickstarter then get completely boinked and then you'll have some room to talk.

It's not like they made you take a sick day or not get paid to see them talk at a rally like some other people would.

 

[Kyuuji]

I'm not really sure how you get here from the post you quoted.

There is, to my knowledge, absolutely zero publicly-available information suggesting that they are 'overextending' in their pricing model. What is this view based on?

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They literally acknowledged it and back-tracked on the model for the current event and said they will look to improve on future ones.

 

[Einbroch]

Yes but the sentiment of "it's free, shut up" is applied in either case.

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Where? I see "we're changing the system" and a post about how changing the prices themselves to make them cheaper is a net negative for them.

 

[Arex]

unprofessional of them but probably no lie detected lol

 

[BananasWithGuns]

Respawn's position is pretty shit considering their cosmetic quality is far below their competition yet they charge just as much if not more for it. I'm not talking about just Fortnite either, most F2P games that I've played absolutely shit on Apex in terms of cosmetic quality.

Not to mention the update frequency and lack of actual new content. I mean, the game is 6 months old now and has only added two new characters and two new weapons. That's just horrible compared to what other games are doing.

 

[Interested Observer]

Going to go down like a lead balloon but the dev is right. There are a large chunk of gamers who act like complete dicks.

 

[Bansai]

"Horrible look for Respawn " OP, what?

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Clearly unprofessional. Definitely not a look you want to have after the whole iron something skin fiasco.

 

[Kyuuji]

Where? I see "we're changing the system" and a post about how changing the prices themselves to make them cheaper is a net negative for them.

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Throughout the literal entirety of the thread we had on the pricing model. I'm talking about the ability to discuss here, not the devs response btw.

 

[Ricky]

If you are offended by something a developer said, why go back and forth with them on a message board? You're not getting anywhere with that tone. Is it really that hard to just drop a game and move on. It's fine to voice your opinion but use of all that profanity just makes you look just as bad, imo. I personally hate MTX and am not a fan of paid DLC either. I just make the choice not to buy the "extra" content. If it's a game in which I think I'll be at a disadvantage due to lack of me purchasing MTX, I skip the game altogether.

 

[Patsy]

He's honestly not wrong. I don't agree with them charging as much as they do for MTX and especially not with how you had to spend a fuckload of money on loot boxes before they changed it to you being able to just buy whatever stuff you want, but that doesn't give people the fucking right to be toxic & insulting scumbags.

Wish those who care so much about devs rightfully calling them out on being entitled & toxic shits would even remotely care as much about devs being transphobic fucks.