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Gassy_N0va

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,747
While I'm pretty staunchly on the left, and absolutely detest that the majority of folks can't do their own reading to eliminate boogeymen like 'socialism' and 'defund the police', etc, Progressives need to work their asses off these next two years. I hope the will to remove Trump has incited a newfound interest in folks to get involved in politics, but we need to keep fighting to get more progressive voices into office in two years.

Also, these boogeymen arent going to die out. Too many of my own millennial generation are thinking just like their parents and grandparents. The hope that we'll wake up one day and have a majority of progressive folks isn't happening any time soon.
 

Surfinn

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
28,590
USA
Damn she sounds done as fuck. Don't blame her, but I hope she finds a way to continue on in politics
 

Anaron

Banned
Oct 26, 2017
1,645
The establishment is so fucking afraid of her. It's one thing to see the right wing throw vitriol your way, but to see her own party doing the same has to drive her insane. So many privileged moderates out there that will never understand why people like her and Bernie are so popular despite their so called "radical" ideas.

The dems don't deserve her.
AOC is out here giving a masterclass on how we won this election, debunking flat out lies that exist only to shoot the Democratic party in the foot and people still shit on her. Seriously not suprised, but god damn is it dissapointing.

But let's be real, they do this because these Democrats have far more in common with wealthy Republicans than they do true progressives.
Sadly this. Class solidarity amongst the rich before anything else
 

meowdi gras

Member
Feb 24, 2018
12,659
The reality is that progressives cannot count on white voters, full stop. At the end of the day, white votes will always be driven by the fear of what they have to potentially lose by not continuing to support the white supremacist status quo. POC are the lifeblood of the Democratic Party, as they have been for decades and always will be, because they are not, for the most part, guided by this fear. Were there any justice, or even sheer common sense, the Democratic Party would be doing everything they possibly could to accommodate the needs of POC and platform their voices. They would supercharge that most galvanized bloc of their voting base in such a way as to render the Democratic Party more or less unbeatable going forward.

Sadly, the dinosaur white supremacist contingent of the Democratic Party (Pelosi, Schumer, Biden, etc.) still very much hold the reins even here at the dawn of the third decade of the 21st century, so I don't see them letting go of their obsolete and always-flawed plan to perpetually chase the centrist and disaffected Republican white rabbit. Progressive warriors like AOC are much too good for the Democratic Party.
 

Zombegoast

Member
Oct 30, 2017
14,239
Here's what progressives in Florida have to say
www.orlandosentinel.com

Florida Democrats call for new party leadership and strategy after yet another GOP rout

Total systemic failure. Time to rebuild the party. Desperate need of new leadership. Those were just some of the reactions from Florida Democrats after their party’s 3-point defeat to Preside…

"The Democratic Party continues to have no values," Eskamani said. "And the fact that the $15 minimum wage amendment passed while so many of our candidates, including the self-anointed 'top Democrats,' don't even stand in strong solidarity [of the initiative] … because they're influenced by corporate donors, is another example of just why we keep losing."

Eskamani cited her own winning campaign's ground game, which included 40,000 phone calls and knocking on 33,000 doors.

We need new leadership and Nancy and Chuck have to go.
 

RellikSK

Member
Nov 1, 2017
2,470
We need new leadership and Nancy and Chuck have to go.
If Nancy is replaced right now, it would likely end up being someone to the right of her. There's a reason why AOC voted for Pelosi in 2018. If we want to replace them with people more in line with us, leftist Democrats need to get more seats in the house and senate.
 

Ether_Snake

Banned
Oct 29, 2017
11,306
Here's what progressives in Florida have to say
www.orlandosentinel.com

Florida Democrats call for new party leadership and strategy after yet another GOP rout

Total systemic failure. Time to rebuild the party. Desperate need of new leadership. Those were just some of the reactions from Florida Democrats after their party’s 3-point defeat to Preside…



We need new leadership and Nancy and Chuck have to go.

Can't they do what AOC and co have been doing? Why do they have to wait for Pelosi and Schumer to go?
 

P-Bo

One Winged Slayer
Member
Jun 17, 2019
4,405
Damn, while I totally understand, I'm still sorry to hear this--she's been an inspiration, and I absolutely would have voted for her (and anyone from her school of thought) for whatever office she would run for. Not sure where the party of sanity goes from here.
 

nopattern

Member
Nov 25, 2017
988
AOC will do well in the city but the margin won't be big enough and she will fall apart with upstate and Long Island dems.

I don't think there's a path there unless she focuses on campaigning upstate more often. Even then it's going to take a lot to remove the goodwill Schumer has earned with upstate New Yorkers by just being around. Like the dude shows up to a bunch of college graduation ceremonies every year.

she'll have a better shot with Kristin Gillibrand
People need to stop underestimating her and assuming she can't win. She can and has the smarts to figure out how to appeal to other voters.
 

darkside

Member
Oct 26, 2017
11,299
Can't they do what AOC and co have been doing? Why do they have to wait for Pelosi and Schumer to go?

The FL Dem party is awful. Biden embraced $15 minimum wage the same time everyone in this party was running away from it. It's got absolutely nothing to do with Nancy or Chuck (although they should go anyway).

The reality is that progressives cannot count on white voters, full stop. At the end of the day, white votes will always be driven by the fear of what they have to potentially lose by not continuing to support the white supremacist status quo. POC are the lifeblood of the Democratic Party, as they have been for decades and always will be, because they are not, for the most part, guided by this fear. Were there any justice, or even sheer common sense, the Democratic Party would be doing everything they possibly could to accommodate the needs of POC and platform their voices. They would supercharge that most galvanized bloc of their voting base in such a way as to render the Democratic Party more or less unbeatable going forward.

Sadly, the dinosaur white supremacist contingent of the Democratic Party (Pelosi, Schumer, Biden, etc.) still very much hold the reins even here at the dawn of the third decade of the 21st century, so I don't see them letting go of their obsolete and always-flawed plan to perpetually chase the centrist and disaffected Republican white rabbit. Progressive warriors like AOC are much too good for the Democratic Party.

Biden ended up doing worse than Hillary in a bunch of heavy minority counties of the key states and he still won. I really don't know how you can say white voters don't matter or they shouldn't be counted on when thats what tipped him over the edge in this election. Like you don't have to like the strategy but the strategy worked, for him anyway. If Trump held onto 2-3% more of the white vote that he lost in these states he would have won.
 

MekaMachine

Banned
Sep 17, 2020
241
AOC should remain in politics though I would understand if she leaves.



Poor Kara Eastman. Supported Medicare for All but already abandoned and forgotten by progressives. Or maybe Ryan Knight is a piece of shit.
Maybe the centrists Dems are pieces of shits when her primary opponent endorsed the Republican and they're ignoring that to blame progressive policies.

Not to mention that Eastman Pivoted to the center from 2018
 
Oct 26, 2017
3,946


so much this! Weird how republicans can go further right and win votes but dems feel the need to abandon progressive policies to appeal to the right. Meanwhile the right supports progressive policies as seen in Florida, Arizona and all across the nation.

Dems complaining they were being painted as socialist and anti police by republicans likely felt that way about their own party. So instead of proving those attack ads are right by trying to distance yourself, try to bend the conversation back to the core idea of progressive policies and what you are fighting for. We saw examples of this in the national election when Trump tried to paint Joe as a socialist that wants to defund the police, trump then said his radical left base wouldn't like that. Joe, somewhat well, steered the conversation back to his policies and that would benefit everyone. He never threw mud at the most progressive members, he instead stood on their shoulders and said I agree with the things they want but have a different idea on how to accomplish them.
 

krazen

Member
Oct 27, 2017
13,154
Gentrified Brooklyn
People are afraid of losing what they have (privilege) and what goes unsaid is that they don't want their quality of service to drop. Most people agree that everyone should have access to care. It is just how you get there.

But there wouldnt be a drop, I feel thats even that's propaganda. Its just you have another major player insurer in the market, with fed powers. We can't dismantle the billion dollar industry overnight. Its not as if there's going to be a run on doctors the day its signed into law. It sucks, because its a totally made up boogyman, only ones who should be fighting is the industry; ive read how much of the for profit is hurting even doctors (some got laid off during covid!)
Biden ended up doing worse than Hillary in a bunch of heavy minority counties of the key states and he still won. I really don't know how you can say white voters don't matter or they shouldn't be counted on when thats what tipped him over the edge in this election. Like you don't have to like the strategy but the strategy worked, for him anyway. If Trump held onto 2-3% more of the white vote that he lost in these states he would have won.

"Worse" but still the majority of those voters. You lose black women (who don't even have to to GOP, just become apathetic) what happens? Are those white voters reliable? What happens when you try to trade one base for hopefully another?
 

alexiswrite

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,418
No, I'm saying republican PR on economy is massively beating Democrats, that gaining the popular vote in presidential elections is only a small part of a big picture when legislative, local, and state politics exist.

I haven't only pointed to Miami-dade... I've pointed to that county as an example in the presidential election.

From Gallop:



And your argument is that Republicans tying Democratic candidates to a phrase that is negatively perceived by the majority of Americans is ineffective. And Democrats doing nothing to either counter the negative connotation or separate themselves from the label. And you see this as no problem at all?

Conclusion from the Gallop data set:


We've seen this.


We've seen this, with Miami-Dade being the most high profile example.



No doubt we'll see it here as well when the dust settles.


Like I said, Democratic Party has no idea strategy for taking credit for their economic successes. We've got blue collar, union workers choosing republicans. Things panned out for the presidential election. But there's till a long way to go on Main st.

I'm saying that if you look at the last two cycles, and special elections in between, Democrats have won state level and local elections than Republicans.

Pointing to a single part of a state and using that as an example doesn't really work, because as I've said multiple times, that trend isn't replicated in swing states, let alone in the rest of the country. In 2020 relative to 2016 Democrats are going to have better numbers.

I don't know how anyone can look at a party that nominated Joe Biden and say that they've done nothing to convince their potential voters that they are not socialists.

The idea that socialism has a negative connotation in the US doesn't mean that you're able to successfully tie that to your opposing party. And if you were able to do that it doesn't mean that it would be effective enough of an attack to justify the time you spend on it. And what we've seen, over the last couple of cycylee, as we look the results is that Republicans, generally, aren't getting the results they need.

At the end of the day, in 2020 Democrats are going to have huge turnout, and mostly won independents. "But in miami dade Republicans increased their numbers" doesn't rebuke the fact that relative the 2016 the opposite happened everywhere else. We can't ignore the rest of the country.

Essentially your argument kinda boils down to saying, if Democrats aren't winning by like 8 points (which they would need to be doing every cycle to be constantly winning all swing races), then that must be because they haven't properly dealt with the attack of being socialists and so even if they're still winning most of their races, they're failures. I don't see how that makes sense.

Yeah, we have blue collar union workers voting Republican, but there are loads of reasons why people vote the way they do. And people have more needs and wants than material ones.
 

meowdi gras

Member
Feb 24, 2018
12,659
Biden ended up doing worse than Hillary in a bunch of heavy minority counties of the key states and he still won.
He did worse in these counties because, contrary to Bernie's and other progressives' warnings, his campaign failed to reach out to their communities because they were counting on those centrist and disaffected Republican white rabbits to turn out for him.

I really don't know how you can say white voters don't matter or they shouldn't be counted on when thats what tipped him over the edge in this election.
False. POC were the ones who tipped him over the edge and saved America. Whites still, by and large, went for the white supremacist candidate.

Like you don't have to like the strategy but the strategy worked, for him anyway. If Trump held onto 2-3% more of the white vote that he lost in these states he would have won.
The white votes Trump lost were primarily due his disastrous handling of COVID-19, which managed to afflict and kill off their loved ones and lose them their jobs. You cannot count on a once-in-a-century pandemic to keep popping up to force white people into doing the right thing.
 

ps3ud0

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
1,906
The hero that America doesn't deserve after the results of this election. I don't blame her for doubting her future in American politics.

I'm not sure there is any cure for what amounts to democracy these days. Lots to fix but too many happy to sell their scruples to the highest bidder.

White people by and large really should be ashamed of themselves.

ps3ud0 8)
 

Zombegoast

Member
Oct 30, 2017
14,239
If Nancy is replaced right now, it would likely end up being someone to the right of her. There's a reason why AOC voted for Pelosi in 2018. If we want to replace them with people more in line with us, leftist Democrats need to get more seats in the house and senate.

They continue to expand and people have to remember that these progressive won primaries against the moderate democrats in these "safe blue" districts. Floridians are seen as progressives but they don't know it yet. It's why Andrew Gillum won the democrat primary over Gwen Graham and why he performed better than Joe Biden.


The FL Dem party is awful. Biden embraced $15 minimum wage the same time everyone in this party was running away from it. It's got absolutely nothing to do with Nancy or Chuck (although they should go anyway).

Orange County ended up with a mayor who pushed for the $15 minimum wage increase but increased the budget for the police where they trapped protesters and arrest them for "breaking" curfew.
 

mAcOdIn

Member
Oct 27, 2017
2,978
False. POC were the ones who tipped him over the edge and saved America. Whites still, by and large, went for the white supremacist candidate.
Isn't this just going in circles? I have no problem with saying POC saved America but since the election is State ran and each State matters is arguing over which group put Biden over the edge productive or even relevant when taking away either group likely costs him the election?
 

weekev

Is this a test?
Member
Oct 25, 2017
6,215
I think she has done an amazing job of bringing progressives into the parry. Folks like Ayannaand Ilhan are super inspiring so I'd be confident if ultimately the battle of fighting GOP and centrist dems became too exhausting and she stepped away, that at least the movement would continue. It would just be so much more effective if she remained a servant of the people. Completely understand if she didn't want to do that though.
 

darkside

Member
Oct 26, 2017
11,299
They continue to expand and people have to remember that these progressive won primaries against the moderate democrats in these "safe blue" districts. Floridians are seen as progressives but they don't know it yet. It's why Andrew Gillum won the democrat primary over Gwen Graham and why he performed better than Joe Biden.




Orange County ended up with a mayor who pushed for the $15 minimum wage increase but increased the budget for the police where they trapped protesters and arrest them for "breaking" curfew.

The party has ONE single statewide elected official in Nikki Fried who spent the entire year saying she didn't support $15 minimum wage then supported it like the weekend before the election. It was some of the most pathetic and cowardly shit I've ever seen.

Personally I thought Gillum was an awful candidate and he lost a race he had no business losing. His loss honestly set back the party for a while and he dragged Bill Nelson down with him. I'm not sure what the formula is for the party to gain back any ground but at the forefront has to be actual economic message that resonates with people above anything else.
 

Deleted member 18944

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 27, 2017
6,944
when the democratic party is more willing to listen to republicans over progressives its no wonder someones hope dies

This is why everyone saying that Bernie would have lost is falling into republican talking points. Stop regurgitating their propaganda and being forced to rebrand as moderate because the fucking boogeyman right said socialism is the same as communism.
 

His Majesty

Member
Oct 25, 2017
12,171
Belgium
Here's what progressives in Florida have to say
www.orlandosentinel.com

Florida Democrats call for new party leadership and strategy after yet another GOP rout

Total systemic failure. Time to rebuild the party. Desperate need of new leadership. Those were just some of the reactions from Florida Democrats after their party’s 3-point defeat to Preside…



We need new leadership and Nancy and Chuck have to go.
That's just awful. No wonder working class people are quickly losing faith in the Democratic Party. I really, really hope the leadership won't learn the wrong lessons from this election.
 
Oct 26, 2017
3,946
This is why everyone saying that Bernie would have lost is falling into republican talking points. Stop regurgitating their propaganda and being forced to rebrand as moderate because the fucking boogeyman right said socialism is the same as communism.

Yep, the thing is we have super popular socialist programs already! VA, public schools, fired and police departments, Medicaid, social security, post office, etc. Also Bernie had the best counter to all of the socialist crap, big businesses have been subsidized more than anybody in America. All of these so called capitalists are being sustained by tax cuts and government subsidies.
 

EternalDarko

Member
Oct 26, 2017
1,586
I feel her pain. No matter where you are, it's a lot of stress, pressure and pain to try to fight against a system that does not want to change.
 

Blah

Member
Oct 26, 2017
3,602
This is why everyone saying that Bernie would have lost is falling into republican talking points. Stop regurgitating their propaganda and being forced to rebrand as moderate because the fucking boogeyman right said socialism is the same as communism.

It's infuriating we have to deal with moderate Dems demonizing progressive ideas, ontop of Republicans, just to court a mythical 'Moderate Republican" instead of propping up and supporting actual policies that will help actual disenfranchised people that don't vote in their own Democratic constituency.
 

Scuffed

Member
Oct 28, 2017
10,885
I wouldn't blame her one bit if she gets out. We'll see how the establishment Dems try and govern in the next couple of years but if they spend most of thier time fighting with progressives then fuck em.
 

Davidion

Charitable King
Member
Oct 27, 2017
6,085
She's my representative, and tbh her leaving would be hugely devastating. There's a lot about her, from tactics to energy to positions, that's the right direction that the Democrats need to follow.

You can make an argument that Sanders makes more sense as a symbolic figurehead, but AOC is where she needs to be.

Tbh I wouldn't be surprised if she's saying some of this stuff to light a fire under people's asses; and she would be totally justified in doing so.
 

Deleted member 18944

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 27, 2017
6,944
It's infuriating we have to deal with moderate Dems demonizing progressive ideas, ontop of Republicans, just to court a mythical 'Moderate Republican" instead of propping up and supporting actual policies that will help actual disenfranchised people that don't vote in their own Democratic constituency.

LITERALLY.

Imagine if Biden / Harris didn't say that Latino votes weren't the path to victory, went to miami-dade, challenged the socialism shit, and guess what? Would have won Florida too.

The obsession with trying to pander to "the other half" doesn't work. Instead of trying to get people who vote who also hate you to vote for you, why not, as you said, support policies that help disenfranchised people that don't vote to then vote for them as a result of you helping them.

2000 IQ galaxy brain take to say that, according to dems.
 

Nepenthe

When the music hits, you feel no pain.
Administrator
Oct 25, 2017
20,698
Centrism is going to be the fucking death of us.
 
Oct 25, 2017
4,179
That's just awful. No wonder working class people are quickly losing faith in the Democratic Party. I really, really hope the leadership won't learn the wrong lessons from this election.

Dem leadership don't want to win with left wing ideas or to help the working class. They have a vested interest in helping their fellow rich people out.

It's not about not knowing what works. They'd rather lose with center-right candidates than risk winning with a leftist.
 

SpaceCrystal

Banned
Apr 1, 2019
7,714
I really hope the next 4 years inspire AOC to continue, she is so wonderful.

If she doesn't then hopefully during these next 4 years there is a big cultural change in the Democrats, they can't ignore that its progressiveness and the minorities in the country that won them the election
This. That is what the Democratic party should be focusing on as well, as we're the ones who keeps bailing them out.

If they & Joe Biden fail to court us on our issues & fail to help us liked he promised that he would, they're going to wind up pushing us away, create more voter apathy & we'll either stay home like in 2016 & not bother voting (I voted for Hillary & for Biden by the way), vote 3rd party or even vote Republican just like some minorities had increased their vote for Trump, because if you're going to act Republican-lite, then we might as well vote Republican.

The majority of us like progressive policies like Medicare 4 All, Green New Deal, $15 minimum wage, etc. They need to touch up on that, & stop focusing on courting just moderate whites & stop being friendly with Republicans, because they're not going to ever change from their stances.
 
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Deleted member 5491

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
5,249
Centrism is going to be the fucking death of us.
Centrism is dead, if the other side is pro-racism, pro-terror, pro-facism. And the DEMs shoudl realize that. Heck, they can look to Europe and to social democrats and how they are in the gutter right now for being moderate and not doing politics for THEIR potential support base.
 

EatChildren

Wonder from Down Under
Member
Oct 27, 2017
7,029
She's right, of course, and continues fighting the good fight to move the effortlessly scrutinisable Democratic party away from their horseshit Right-lite neoliberalism.
 

Nepenthe

When the music hits, you feel no pain.
Administrator
Oct 25, 2017
20,698
Centrism is dead, if the other side is pro-racism, pro-terror, pro-facism.
You would think that. Instead, people think the wounds left by these terrorists and their sympathizers were equally inflicted by leftists too, and thus we need to come together at the center and just hug it out.

Fuck that. Trumpers need to be shamed, at the very least, as fucking supporters of fascism and saboteurs of our democracy.
 

Kino

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,322
You would think that. Instead, people think the wounds left by these terrorists and their sympathizers were equally inflicted by leftists too, and thus we need to come together at the center and just hug it out.

Fuck that. Trumpers need to be shamed, at the very least, as fucking supporters of fascism and saboteurs of our democracy.
Repeated for truth. The shit stains suggesting Biden should pardon Trump drive me up the fucking wall.

If Biden really wants to unite the country, he'll make an example of Trump and sacrifice him at the altar of justice lol
 
Oct 25, 2017
1,355
Here's what progressives in Florida have to say
www.orlandosentinel.com

Florida Democrats call for new party leadership and strategy after yet another GOP rout

Total systemic failure. Time to rebuild the party. Desperate need of new leadership. Those were just some of the reactions from Florida Democrats after their party’s 3-point defeat to Preside…

We need new leadership and Nancy and Chuck have to go.

It's true. The democrat strategy sucks over here. I didn't even know the name of the D running for house in my district until I saw the ballot. No ads. No road signs. Nothing. I know that my district is criminally gerrymandered, but at least fucking try.

Oh, and it's not like Gillum was a failure. That race was close and caused a recount. They better not just throw in the towel and let DeSantis sit comfortably. If I'm still living in here in 2022 and Dems do nothing, I think I'm out.
 

RSena7

Member
Oct 26, 2017
332
As much as progressives would love for her to climb the political ladder, I think it's best she stay put--mostly for her own well-being. Reading those excerpts makes it clear the constant resistance from not only Republicans, but Democrats is not easy for her. Not only is she progressive, but she is a woman. And not only is she a woman, but she is Hispanic.

I would rather her stay in Congress as a steady voice for progressive policies. People will get used to her. She will build a record. In time, I think she will be ready to move up, but not anytime soon.
 

Goat Mimicry

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
1,920
Damn, if she's making it sound that dire, that's because it is. After all the Republicans have done over these past four years, I don't know what to do if the moderate idiots go crawling back to them.

I hope she sticks around, but I won't blame her if she ends up leaving.
 

Brinbe

Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
58,306
Terana
what a wonderfully intelligent person. my goodness. she just gets it, completely. way smarter, realistic and grounded than her critics believe. future president, if she wants it.

XbV3PbX.png


she's perfectly right
 

Trup1aya

Literally a train safety expert
Member
Oct 25, 2017
21,362
I'm saying that if you look at the last two cycles, and special elections in between, Democrats have won state level and local elections than Republicans.

Pointing to a single part of a state and using that as an example doesn't really work, because as I've said multiple times, that trend isn't replicated in swing states, let alone in the rest of the country. In 2020 relative to 2016 Democrats are going to have better numbers.

I don't know how anyone can look at a party that nominated Joe Biden and say that they've done nothing to convince their potential voters that they are not socialists.

The idea that socialism has a negative connotation in the US doesn't mean that you're able to successfully tie that to your opposing party. And if you were able to do that it doesn't mean that it would be effective enough of an attack to justify the time you spend on it. And what we've seen, over the last couple of cycylee, as we look the results is that Republicans, generally, aren't getting the results they need.

At the end of the day, in 2020 Democrats are going to have huge turnout, and mostly won independents. "But in miami dade Republicans increased their numbers" doesn't rebuke the fact that relative the 2016 the opposite happened everywhere else. We can't ignore the rest of the country.

Essentially your argument kinda boils down to saying, if Democrats aren't winning by like 8 points (which they would need to be doing every cycle to be constantly winning all swing races), then that must be because they haven't properly dealt with the attack of being socialists and so even if they're still winning most of their races, they're failures. I don't see how that makes sense.

Yeah, we have blue collar union workers voting Republican, but there are loads of reasons why people vote the way they do. And people have more needs and wants than material ones.

YOU keep suggesting that Miami-Dade is the be all end all of the argument, when time and time again I show how it's a tiny piece of a larger argument dating back decades.

Not since Ronald Regan has their been economic data to suggest the conservative policy has as a net positive effect on economic prosperity. In fact, all of the data suggests the opposite is true and that regular old, neoliberal democratic policy, not even socialism, is better. Yet here we are, again within one percentage point of losing the electoral majority in the presidency and will most likely not get the senate.

If you don't think Republican resilience on the topic of economy, despite Republicans driving the economy into the ground everytime they touch it , is a sign of them having more effective PR in this arena I don't know what to tell ya. But "we'll cut taxes and they'll be socialists" continues to keep them in the running despite being awful. I don't know what else you need to see.

Yes people have different reasons for voting, but economy is almost always at the top of this. I work in one of the strongest union environments in the country, the railroad. I watched the railroad companies get massive tax cuts from Trump, then proceed to lay-off tens thousands of Union workers in chase of higher profits. Meanwhile, Republicans in Congress continuously go after railroad retirement like its their duty. I watched the trade war cost us business that will never return because it propped up our international competition. Then corona hit, more layoffs despite revenues bouncing back higher than the drop off.

So what are railroad workers doing? Voting Trump. Why? because they think Republicans will bring business back and Democrats will increase operating costs which will lead to job loss. The don't blame the corporate greed.

How can they believe this when they job losses started during economic prosperity? Effective PR.
 
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