AOC on Biden's Presidency, Democratic Party, and Her Future in Politics

[SindbadtheSailor]

Yeah, that's the problem with genuinely smart empathetic people; they don't want any part of the freak show that is American politics because of how awful it is. A lot of good people would never even consider the possibility of running for office because of the toll it takes and as a result, you're largely left with the opportunists like Schumer and Engel or the downright scum like Cruz and Graham. America's loss.

On the other hand, the dodgy old guard of the democratic party are all pretty ancient. Having someone like AOC, Omar, and the rest of squad to fill the void once the dinosaurs retire/pass on will be critical for the future.

And who knows, maybe one day the democratic party will stop being so utterly craven and acting like their existence is something they should be sorry for and instead, actually stand behind real principles. It's such a shame how much of narrative is controlled by the right and how much of the news media goes along with it.

 

[Deleted member 4353]

Im really curious, do people here think that you can run a campaign in a D+25 district the same way you run one in an R+6 district? Conor Lamb won in a red swing district and that's not the same as winning in the D+30 districts that she lives in.

 

[Ramsay]

Progressives have a major branding problem. I will even go as far as to say that Bernie labelling his policies as "democratic socialism" was the biggest political mistake the progressive movement made in years.

The issue is twofold: American politics is largely driven by self-interest, and the vast majority of the electorate grew up in a time where the USSR, and by extension, socialism, was considered an existential threat to America.

As such, you have a situation where progressive policies are highly popular with the electorate (the minimum wage increase in Florida is a testament to that), but progressive politicians (and even some liberal politicians) struggle to get elected in anywhere other than deep blue states/districts because the right can taint their image with the idea of socialism, and by extension, attack them as not just incompetent, but as a overtly malicious threat to Americans.

If progressives are to gain significant power on a nationwide level, then I'd argue that they'll have to drop the socialism branding (but not progressive policies - after all, said policies are hardly even socialist to begin with).

 

[Papaya]

We can't get an AOC, Pressley or Porter in every district.

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Yes we can. Support activist, professors, and organizers and you'll soon discover there is a lot of them (not necessarily Katie, but the Squad, sure). People like that aren't asked to run in swing districts, though, because the Dem party only knows one type of person.

 

[dabig2]

Then don't get mad when Dems refuse to entertain it.

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Dems can do whatever the hell they want. My entire point from the beginning was emphasizing that "Abolish the Police" is grassroots as hell already, just on a national scale. So there is no "not talking about it", because regular folks are going to continue to group together and speak their truth.

 

[TheHunter]

Dems can do whatever the hell they want. My entire point from the beginning was emphasizing that "Abolish the Police" is grassroots as hell already, just on a national scale. So there is no "not talking about it", because regular folks are going to continue to group together and speak their truth.

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Then we are arguing over nothing.

I said activist should do what they need to.

 

[cartoon_soldier]

To be fair, BLM enjoys far more support than Defund.

BLM is good messaging.

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Yes BLM is fine messaging, I still think polls over estimated support for it.

I disagree and feel this is a mischaracterization of what happened. But then again, the left isn't immune to not understanding basic mathematics/statistics.

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What mischaracterization? Not only are Dems going to lose seats in the house, they are going to lose seats in state houses too. PA which Biden also defeated Dem candidates for statewide offices and Dems will be losing more state congress seats there instead of winning them.

 

[antonz]

Miami-Dade county shifted 22 points against typical Democrat results because Joe Biden was considered too Socialist. So no the answer isn't to just embrace the labels and run hardcore socialists because your going to be labeled it anyways. You need to run Politicians that will fit into their regions and hopefully be able to make progress towards progressive policies. You cant jump into the Heart of Red America and run candidates that are completely out of tune with the local populace.

The reality is there is no Singular Democratic Party. The Democratic Party is the equivalent of party coalitions in European Politics which is why you constantly hear them talk about the Coalition of Voters built for the Democratic Party. There are common threads that bind them but there are also plenty of differences.

America will become more open to Open Socialism with time especially if the Youth Vote etc. stays engaged. Until those days though you have to package and sell it to people who don't even realize what they are getting

 

[TheHunter]

Yes BLM is fine messaging, I still think polls over estimated support for it.



What mischaracterization? Not only are Dems going to lose seats in the house, they are going to lose seats in state houses too. PA which Biden also defeated Dem candidates for statewide offices and Dems will be losing more state congress seats there instead of winning them.

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I...agree sadly.

Those MAGA types didn't answer those polls either most likely. We should carry it forward nationally though.

 

[cartoon_soldier]

Dems can do whatever the hell they want. My entire point from the beginning was emphasizing that "Abolish the Police" is grassroots as hell already, just on a national scale. So there is no "not talking about it", because regular folks are going to continue to group together and speak their truth.

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Then the grassroots should be fine with not having any actual power at National level and in many states and not bitch about Dems not enacting liberal policies.

 

[alexiswrite]

Socialist policy is popular, but socialist ideology has a PR problem.

It's no accident that a huge voting block in Florida may have simultaneously voted for a large increase in minimum wage while rejecting Biden based on spurious accusations of socialism. Where Cuban-American voters may have bad associations with Castro's Cuba, many white Americans have lived relatively privileged lives being inundated with anti-socialist propaganda from BOTH sides for decades. It's not something to be ignored even if some progressive candidates in mostly dem-friendly districts were still successful.

The long term solution is we need to get through the boomer generation. Younger voters are less put off by socialism and the messaging from people like Ocasio-Cortez are the reason why. In the mean time push progressive policy and argue yourself as a moderate. Biden, while actually not meeting all of my hopes, actually did that by moving to the left in somethings throughout his campaign while campaigning as a safe, moderate candidate in the summer final stretch.

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It's not a pr problem as much as it's polarisation. When a policy is seen to come from specific politicians it's less popular than when it is decoupled from those politicians. There's no fixing that, unfortunately. This is the difficulty with pushing policy led campaigns.

 

[TheHunter]

Miami-Dade county shifted 22 points against typical Democrat results because Joe Biden was considered too Socialist. You need to run Politicians that will fit into their regions and hopefully be able to make progress towards progressive policies. You cant jump into the Heart of Red America and run candidates that are completely out of tune with the local populace.

The reality is there is no Singular Democratic Party. The Democratic Party is the equivalent of party coalitions in European Politics which is why you constantly hear them talk about the Coalition of Voters built for the Democratic Party. There are common threads that bind them but there are also plenty of differences.

America will become more open to Open Socialism with time especially if the Youth Vote etc. stays engaged. Until those days though you have to package and sell it to people who don't even realize what they are getting

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Another good take.

 

[Trup1aya]

Imagine decades of having to live with the threats and other shit she has to deal with on a daily basis.

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Yeah that's exactly what I'm imagining. In public she seems so powerfully resistant to the vitriol, but I can only imagine the weight she carries around 24/7. It has to be exhausting.

 

[cartoon_soldier]

I...agree sadly.

Those MAGA types didn't answer those polls either most likely. We should carry it forward nationally though.

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Yes, BLM will and should remain part of Dem messaging.

 

[Codeblue]

Im really curious, do people here think that you can run a campaign in a D+25 district the same way you run one in an R+6 district? Conor Lamb won in a red swing district and that's not the same as winning in the D+30 districts that she lives in.

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You can't run every race identically, but Conor Lamb would do well to stop trying to police the tone of his colleagues and activists.

He isn't owed anything, and if he can't find a way to win when the party starts advocating for clean energy, then that's a sacrifice that has to be made.

 

[cartoon_soldier]

Another good take.

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I can't believe Dems ran Donna Shalala who can't speak Spanish and doesn't disclose stock sales in a Miami Dade area district!

I can't figure out which Hispanic leaders Dems have coming up in Florida at this point.

 

[Soap]

Aoc is my age and I wish I still had that level of compassion and spirit, but truthfully it takes a lot out of you and it must be hard for her to keep it up. I can understand her desire to pull away, but hopefully she realises it is okay to relax a bit and not live everyday being crushed by the weight of politics.

 

[TheHunter]

I can't believe Dems ran Donna Shalala who can't speak Spanish and doesn't disclose stock sales in a Miami Dade area district!

I can't figure out which Hispanic leaders Dems have coming up in Florida at this point.

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The Florida Dem party sucks.

It is known.

 

[cartoon_soldier]

You can't run every race identically, but Conor Lamb would do well to stop trying to police the tone of his colleagues and activists.

He isn't owed anything, and if he can't find a way to win when the party starts advocating for clean energy, then that's a sacrifice that has to be made.

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It's not that Conor Lamb does not support clean energy. He also has to run in a state which sent Biden to Presidency and also voted for Republicans state wide (R+2 margin on house races).

 

[SonicFighterV]

I agree with most of her points but this interview and twitter bits couldn't have come at a wrong time. They just come off as seeking attention or wanting to be acknowledged. I do want her to do big things in the future but the timing of this is very poor when the Biden/Harris have just been declared winners.

It should have been the time to celebrate the win and then get back to talking about what needs to be done to address the issues in the party.

 

[dabig2]

Then the grassroots should be fine with not having any actual power at National level and in many states and not bitch about Dems not enacting liberal policies.

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People should fight for what they believe in no matter the struggle or how much they're patronized to choose a better season, especially black people when they're talking about the systemic issues of being murdered by fascist police.

Then we are arguing over nothing.

I said activist should do what they need to.

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Good.

 

[Neo C.]

People need to understand that conservative dems are really conservative, they want the lobbyist money and the endorsement of rich donors. American progressives don't have any other way than fighting hard in primaries with grassroot activities, if they want a more progressive party. The party is despite the loss in the house actually a tad more progressive now. That should give the squad more power and influence.

 

[Codeblue]

I agree with most of her points but this interview and twitter bits couldn't have come at a wrong time. They just come off as seeking attention or wanting to be acknowledged. I do want her to do big things in the future but the timing of this is very poor when the Biden/Harris have just been declared the winners.

It should have been the time to celebrate the win and then get back to talking about what needs to be done to address the issues in the party.

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Maybe moderates and Republicans should have picked a better time to attack her then.

 

[firehawk12]

I agree with most of her points but this interview and twitter bits couldn't have come at a wrong time. They just come off as seeking attention or wanting to be acknowledged. I do want her to do big things in the future but the timing of this is very poor when the Biden/Harris have just been declared winners.

It should have been the time to celebrate the win and then get back to talking about what needs to be done to address the issues in the party.

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The Democrats were blaming her for their losses pretty much right after election day and she doesn't want them to frame the narrative against her or the progressive grassroots movement.

 

[fontguy]

I agree with most of her points but this interview and twitter bits couldn't have come at a wrong time. They just come off as seeking attention or wanting to be acknowledged. I do want her to do big things in the future but the timing of this is very poor when the Biden/Harris have just been declared winners.

It should have been the time to celebrate the win and then get back to talking about what needs to be done to address the issues in the party.

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This post only makes sense if you somehow think she and the rest of the progressives in congress (and outside of congress, for that matter) chose to be attacked.

 

[Trup1aya]

It's not a pr problem as much as it's polarisation. When a policy is seen to come from specific politicians it's less popular than when it is decoupled from those politicians. There's no fixing that, unfortunately. This is the difficulty with pushing policy led campaigns.

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It's definitely a PR problem. Biden's economic policy hasn't shifted all that dramatically to the left over his career. And he certainly isn't about to takeover the means of production and hand it over to the working class. He's labeled a socialist, now, simply because socialism has become the generic criticism that Republicans throw at democrats, and much of the public is too ignorant to recognize this reality, so it works.

We can talk about how socialist ideology can work in conjunction with the free market, as seen in various successful economies world wide. But we first need to talk about how Biden isn't even a socialist in the first place.

Democrats have been completely unable to counter this republican strategy... just like they are seemingly unable to shake this 'voter fraud' nonsense. If republicans spout bullshit loud enough and often enough, they get large amounts of people to believe it.

 

[SonicFighterV]

Maybe moderates and Republicans should have picked a better time to attack her then.

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The Democrats were blaming her for their losses pretty much right after election day and she doesn't want them to frame the narrative against her or the progressive grassroots movement.

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This post only makes sense if you somehow think she and the rest of the progressives in congress (and outside of congress, for that matter) chose to be attacked.

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Republicans, I can understand. Dems, I guess I did not see who was attacking her specifically. But her statement comes across, especially in the interview part, as something of a credit seeking thing. I get that as well. That she wants to be acknowledged for her work. But seriously, on the night the first Black, Indian-American woman has been elected to the Vice-Presidency office, do we really need to engage in a public squabble for the whole world to see how disorganized the party is? I like her but can't get behind this, whatever the reason is.

 

[John Doe]

Im really curious, do people here think that you can run a campaign in a D+25 district the same way you run one in an R+6 district? Conor Lamb won in a red swing district and that's not the same as winning in the D+30 districts that she lives in.

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Is this supposed to be a gotcha? You're also asking two different questions.

You can run any campaign you like, anywhere you want. Will you win is a different question. It will take some effort and a lot of time spent educating voters on progressive policies.

Are we just supposed to throw our hands up and say "Well this is a Republican district and we're never going to make inroads here so we won't bother."?

The key isn't to try and convert Republican voters in those places but try to reach the people who don't vote at all because they're tired of the usual political BS.

 

[Codeblue]

It's not that Conor Lamb does not support clean energy. He also has to run in a state which sent Biden to Presidency and also voted for Republicans state wide (R+2 margin on house races).

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That's fine, and he's welcome to navigate that without trying to police other reps who have their own constituents to represent.

 

[Theswweet]

Republicans, I can understand. Dems, I guess I did not see who was attacking her specifically. But her statement comes across, especially in the interview part, as something of a credit seeking thing. I get that as well. That she wants to be acknowledged for her work. But seriously, on the night the first Black, Indian-American woman has been elected to the Vice-Presidency office, do we really need to engage in a public squabble for the whole world to see how disorganized the party is? I like her but can't get behind this, whatever the reason is.

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You had multiple dems attacking the progressives a few days ago, and you didn't see? C'mon she's not throwing the first stone here, she's setting the record straight.

 

[Tygre]

I really hope the Dems don't succeed in crushing the will out of AOC as they've clearly been trying to do from the start.

Preaching unity and forgiveness to the Right while bitterly attacking the Left seems to be the Dem's only playbook, and it's as counterproductive as it is disappointing.

 

[firehawk12]

Republicans, I can understand. Dems, I guess I did not see who was attacking her specifically. But her statement comes across, especially in the interview part, as something of a credit seeking thing. I get that as well. That she wants to be acknowledged for her work. But seriously, on the night the first Black, Indian-American woman has been elected to the Vice-Presidency office, do we really need to engage in a public squabble for the whole world to see how disorganized the party is? I like her but can't get behind this, whatever the reason is.

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https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/house-democrats-pelosi-election/2020/11/05/1ddae5ca-1f6e-11eb-90dd-abd0f7086a91_story.html

This is already happening and the Democrats will probably try to push AOC and the squad out in the hopes that it will somehow miraculously "save" them in 2022.

 

[Lifendz]

I understand why'd she be tired of this shit. The moment the results were announced MSNBC's Joe Scarborough immediately went to castigating her and other progressives for being the reason this was close and not a landslide. And he wasn't alone. That was the case across multiple networks. And I haven't heard one prominent Democrat defend them. Fucking ridiculous. Never mind that almost all of her policy beliefs are incredibly popular in every national poll.

And it's funny how immediately after a segment discussing racism in America, the old white host of a news show in a snide tone criticizes "the squad." Hopefully she runs as an independent while in Congress ala Bernie...at least for her own mental health.

 

[alexiswrite]

It's definitely a PR problem. Biden's economic policy hasn't shifted all that dramatically to the left over his career. And he certainly isn't about to takeover the means of production and hand it over to the working class. He's labeled a socialist, now, simply because socialism has become the generic criticism that Republicans throw at democrats, and much of the public is too ignorant to recognize this reality, so it works.

We can talk about how socialist ideology can work in conjunction with the free market, as seen in various successful economies world wide. But we first need to talk about how Biden isn't even a socialist in the first place.

Democrats have been completely unable to counter this republican strategy... just like they are seemingly unable to shake this 'voter fraud' nonsense. If republicans spout bullshit loud enough and often enough, they get large amounts of people to believe it.

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Biden just won by 5%, I think it's difficult to look at this and make the argument that Republicans have been really persuasive when it comes to making people believe that Biden is some awful socialist. The only people this song and dance works on is people who are already Republicans. It's polarisation. People primed to believe whatever Republicans say, will believe this shit, everyone else will shrug and get on with their lives.

 

[Shroki]

It's not a pr problem as much as it's polarisation. When a policy is seen to come from specific politicians it's less popular than when it is decoupled from those politicians. There's no fixing that, unfortunately. This is the difficulty with pushing policy led campaigns.

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Polarization, save for the inevitable extremism, is actually a good thing. It's how you move the middle ground and gain support for things like socialized medicine.

Socialism is as popular as capitalism among millennial's, and that is NOT true of older generations. Those older generations lived relatively privileged lives in the era of American sensationalism and where there was much LESS polarization. You have to defeat decades old baked-in misconceptions about socialism and I think the only reliable way to do that is to let is to let younger generations replace older ones.

In the mean time, sell policy like expanded public healthcare and increased minimum wage and argue yourself as the safe, stable moderate.

Biden just won by 5%, I think it's difficult to look at this and make the argument that Republicans have been really persuasive when it comes to making people believe that Biden is some awful socialist. The only people this song and dance works on is people who are already Republicans. It's polarisation. People primed to believe whatever Republicans say, will believe this shit, everyone else will shrug and get on with their lives.

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There are far, far, far, far, far more people in the middle of all this than you believe there are. The rural vote in Pennsylvania did not break for Biden as heavily as the urban vote - no duh - but was a key factor in him winning the state. Moving forward he will always keep urban support (albeit by potentially smaller margins), but if he or Kamala or whomever lose the rural vote by the margins that Hillary did in 2016, they will not win.

This is the short term predicament of Democrats. It's why Biden was the right choice for 2020 even though Warren and Sanders were my personal preference.

 

[fontguy]

Republicans, I can understand. Dems, I guess I did not see who was attacking her specifically. But her statement comes across, especially in the interview part, as something of a credit seeking thing. I get that as well. That she wants to be acknowledged for her work. But seriously, on the night the first Black, Indian-American woman has been elected to the Vice-Presidency office, do we really need to engage in a public squabble for the whole world to see how disorganized the party is? I like her but can't get behind this, whatever the reason is.

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This is such garbage. "Why can't AOC just shut up and take it?"

Why is it on her and other progressives, and not on the fucksticks looking for an easy scapegoat to pin their own failures on, to maintain a happy atmosphere?

The party is playing with fucking fire here.

 

[Bluelote]

she is great, I can perfectly understand the appeal of stepping out, but I hope she doesn't, she can have a great future and have a huge impact if she continues the path she is going.... well, she already did much of it.

 

[SonicFighterV]

You had multiple dems attacking the progressives a few days ago, and you didn't see? C'mon she's not throwing the first stone here, she's setting the record straight.

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https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/house-democrats-pelosi-election/2020/11/05/1ddae5ca-1f6e-11eb-90dd-abd0f7086a91_story.html

This is already happening and the Democrats will probably try to push AOC and the squad out in the hopes that it will somehow miraculously "save" them in 2022.

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I see. I am not against her setting the record straight. But the timing just felt off for me personally. I just wish she was wiser than the others who were being petty.

 

[Drek]

Republicans, I can understand. Dems, I guess I did not see who was attacking her specifically. But her statement comes across, especially in the interview part, as something of a credit seeking thing. I get that as well. That she wants to be acknowledged for her work. But seriously, on the night the first Black, Indian-American woman has been elected to the Vice-Presidency office, do we really need to engage in a public squabble for the whole world to see how disorganized the party is? I like her but can't get behind this, whatever the reason is.

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Claire McCaskill was one of the most prominent, but it was widespread from Dem strategists as the excuse for why they underperformed nationwide.

And the concept they're pushing falls apart when you see that Joe Biden actually tried to engage with these issues and out-performed the Dem party basically across the board, especially in swing states.

She and the progressive wing should be seeking credit because their work is what drove 1. unprecedented turnout in the major metro areas and 2. saw that turnout split 80/20 or better in every major metro across this country.

Joe Biden and Kamala Harris won because of progressive districts. The whole "Biden is going to win the suburbs" narrative was overblown and at the end of the day massive voter drives in these hard blue districts that the party apparatus is now demonizing carried the top of the ticket over the finish line.

If you don't like the timing blame the establishment Dems and their consultants who were pushing their false narrative before the end of election night.

And beyond that, if your interest is in this party winning and this nation making real progress this isn't a time to just sit back and be content, its a time to lean into the work more than ever and Ocasio-Cortez is one of the few who actually gets what that work entails.

The Dem party has no idea how to talk to working class voters, and that includes black and Hispanic working class voters who are a huge demographic. They say stupid shit like "if you can mine coal you can learn to code" and think that works. They promise welfare expansion, not jobs. They give a picture of healthcare that isn't better than now, as it would still largely be private corp. driven, but will have an added layer of bureaucracy thrown in the mix.

They establishment is a wine and cheese party wondering why the beer and hot dogs working class are moving further and further to the people who at least acknowledge their greivance, even if done entirely through the false narrative of race/culture wars.

 

[SonicFighterV]

This is such garbage. "Why can't AOC just shut up and take it?"

Why is it on her and other progressives, and not on the fucksticks looking for an easy scapegoat to pin their own failures on, to maintain a happy atmosphere?

The party is playing with fucking fire here.

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I used to think that being more civilized about your internal issues was the better thing. Even if others weren't being so. I want her to be a big player and being this way, imo, is not going to help her achieve that. Or maybe she becomes very popular outsider by being the Anti-Trump, who speaks as is, but the right things. I don't know. I wish her well.

 

[TheHunter]

Claire McCaskill was one of the most prominent, but it was widespread from Dem strategists as the excuse for why they underperformed nationwide.

And the concept they're pushing falls apart when you see that Joe Biden actually tried to engage with these issues and out-performed the Dem party basically across the board, especially in swing states.

She and the progressive wing should be seeking credit because their work is what drove 1. unprecedented turnout in the major metro areas and 2. saw that turnout split 80/20 or better in every major metro across this country.

Joe Biden and Kamala Harris won because of progressive districts. The whole "Biden is going to win the suburbs" narrative was overblown and at the end of the day massive voter drives in these hard blue districts that the party apparatus is now demonizing carried the top of the ticket over the finish line.

If you don't like the timing blame the establishment Dems and their consultants who were pushing their false narrative before the end of election night.

And beyond that, if your interest is in this party winning and this nation making real progress this isn't a time to just sit back and be content, its a time to lean into the work more than ever and Ocasio-Cortez is one of the few who actually gets what that work entails.

The Dem party has no idea how to talk to working class voters, and that includes black and Hispanic working class voters who are a huge demographic. They say stupid shit like "if you can mine coal you can learn to code" and think that works. They promise welfare expansion, not jobs. They give a picture of healthcare that isn't better than now, as it would still largely be private corp. driven, but will have an added layer of bureaucracy thrown in the mix.

They establishment is a wine and cheese party wondering why the beer and hot dogs working class are moving further and further to the people who at least acknowledge their greivance, even if done entirely through the false narrative of race/culture wars.

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Not really.

Winning or lowering the margin in those districts helped out a lot.

 

[SonicFighterV]

Claire McCaskill was one of the most prominent, but it was widespread from Dem strategists as the excuse for why they underperformed nationwide.

And the concept they're pushing falls apart when you see that Joe Biden actually tried to engage with these issues and out-performed the Dem party basically across the board, especially in swing states.

She and the progressive wing should be seeking credit because their work is what drove 1. unprecedented turnout in the major metro areas and 2. saw that turnout split 80/20 or better in every major metro across this country.

Joe Biden and Kamala Harris won because of progressive districts. The whole "Biden is going to win the suburbs" narrative was overblown and at the end of the day massive voter drives in these hard blue districts that the party apparatus is now demonizing carried the top of the ticket over the finish line.

If you don't like the timing blame the establishment Dems and their consultants who were pushing their false narrative before the end of election night.

And beyond that, if your interest is in this party winning and this nation making real progress this isn't a time to just sit back and be content, its a time to lean into the work more than ever and Ocasio-Cortez is one of the few who actually gets what that work entails.

The Dem party has no idea how to talk to working class voters, and that includes black and Hispanic working class voters who are a huge demographic. They say stupid shit like "if you can mine coal you can learn to code" and think that works. They promise welfare expansion, not jobs. They give a picture of healthcare that isn't better than now, as it would still largely be private corp. driven, but will have an added layer of bureaucracy thrown in the mix.

They establishment is a wine and cheese party wondering why the beer and hot dogs working class are moving further and further to the people who at least acknowledge their greivance, even if done entirely through the false narrative of race/culture wars.

Click to shrink...

Good write up. I am definitely not supporting the establishment here. Whatever I already said and also as I mentioned in my last post, wanting her to do bigger things and feel this might not be the best thing to be doing at this point of time in her career.

 

[Trup1aya]

Biden just won by 5%, I think it's difficult to look at this and make the argument that Republicans have been really persuasive when it comes to making people believe that Biden is some awful socialist. The only people this song and dance works on is people who are already Republicans. It's polarisation. People primed to believe whatever Republicans say, will believe this shit, everyone else will shrug and get on with their lives.

Click to shrink...

Biden probably one by more than 5% when it's all said and done, but that's irrelevant when we distribute electoral votes by state. They don't have to persuade everyone. They just need to persuade the right people in the right place.

The ideal that this only works on republicans is nonsense. How can this be said in a conversation about how Miami-Dade swung away from Democrats? Do you think it the swing was due to Hilary-voting Republicans choosing Trump this time. No, it was Democrat's and independents choosing Trump because they fear the socialist boogey man.

It's not just Republicans who are susceptible to their aggressive misinformation campaign.

 

[SonicFighterV]

Not really.

Winning or lowering the margin in those districts helped out a lot.

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When there are so many variables, it's always hard to guage exactly what worked. It could be one or all of them together. That's why her saying that she was the reason why they won all the metro areas she helped and lost every single one she didn't help just rubbed me the wrong way. I am like come on. I get you probably played a huge part but seriously saying this at this point of time...

 

[AncientReptileBrain]

Good write up. I am definitely not supporting the establishment here. Whatever I already said and also as I mentioned in my last post, wanting her to do bigger things and feel this might not be the best thing to be doing at this point of time in her career.

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the narrative for what happened this election — real analysis be damned — is being written now. in a perfect world, we'd all wait for studies on what happened here, but others have already started trying to write the story. you don't wait and let them define you or your movement.

 

[His Majesty]

She is already seeing the direction the wind is blowing: the DNC will blame progressives for losing in the house and not winning the senate. Despite Biden winning because of unprecedented turnout in the major metro areas. I really hope she stays and becomes a more prominent voice in the Democratic Party but I cannot see that happening when Biden is extending such an extensive olive branch to Republicans.

 

[Codeblue]

Republicans, I can understand. Dems, I guess I did not see who was attacking her specifically. But her statement comes across, especially in the interview part, as something of a credit seeking thing. I get that as well. That she wants to be acknowledged for her work. But seriously, on the night the first Black, Indian-American woman has been elected to the Vice-Presidency office, do we really need to engage in a public squabble for the whole world to see how disorganized the party is? I like her but can't get behind this, whatever the reason is.

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The squabble isn't petty, and she said what needed to be said. If she wants to run for higher office her popularity and honesty will get her there, not her ability to stay silent while Dems burn their grass roots.

Also "now is not the time" is such a popular phrase to shut down progressives with that it's ultimately become meaningless.

 

[SonicFighterV]

the narrative for what happened this election — real analysis be damned — is being written now. in a perfect world, we'd all wait for studies on what happened here, but others have already started trying to write the story. you don't wait and let them define you or your movement.

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The does make sense. I guess I was thinking more about the timing and her being part of the party than anything else.

 

[SolarPowered]

I get a feeling that democrats only pause, and not reverse, the work of republicans. As long as words like "medicare for all" and "green new deal" remain "communist" boogeyman no-no words in democratic spaces, this will never change.

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I heard a fantastic line the other day. I think it was from someone on Democracy now. They said Democrats are maintainers of democracy, but not cultivators of it. That line really stuck with me. We're in a place of great danger these next four years. Just maintaining isn't enough anymore and if we go that route I fear that we could lose to an even worse and smarter monster in 2024.

 

[dabig2]

It's definitely a PR problem. Biden's economic policy hasn't shifted all that dramatically to the left over his career. And he certainly isn't about to takeover the means of production and hand it over to the working class. He's labeled a socialist, now, simply because socialism has become the generic criticism that Republicans throw at democrats, and much of the public is too ignorant to recognize this reality, so it works.

We can talk about how socialist ideology can work in conjunction with the free market, as seen in various successful economies world wide. But we first need to talk about how Biden isn't even a socialist in the first place.

Democrats have been completely unable to counter this republican strategy... just like they are seemingly unable to shake this 'voter fraud' nonsense. If republicans spout bullshit loud enough and often enough, they get large amounts of people to believe it.

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Dems have gotten the socialist scare thrown at them for the last 7 decades

Combine that with The Southern Strategy and you get America. And it doesn't matter how much the Dems might dilute a message or put some different paint on the idea to attract more white people, Repubs are going to do what they do.

One way for the Dems to fight this, that doesn't involve throwing their base under the bus, would be not joining the Repubs in their bad faith attacks and spreading FUD around to the public. A classic example of this - that M4A hitjob the Dems paid money for and then got screwed over on this election.