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AOC: At this point, the bigger national scandal isn’t the president’s lawbreaking behavior - it's the Democratic Party’s refusal to impeach him for it

Nobleman Swerve

Nobleman Swerve

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,608
It's still amazing to me that people still seem to believe the only thing stopping impeachment is Pelosi. The Senate as it currently exists will under no circumstance muster the 67 votes to impeach Trump, it's a literal goddamn pipe dream. A democratic impeachment attempt would be nothing more than political posturing, a fight that Trump can easily walk away from victorious.

Pelosi isn't the one leaving kids to die in cages, and filing for impeachment sure as shit won't stop it.
 

preta

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,491
As RiOrius pointed out above, there's no point in pursuing impeachment now. Due to the current makeup of the Senate, removal is not on the table, so impeachment would be a symbolic gesture that would have the most practical purpose closer to the election.

Do people somehow expect to get 20 Republican votes in the Senate (and that's assuming every Dem and both independents vote to convict)?
 
mugurumakensei

mugurumakensei

Elizabeth, I’m coming to join you!
Member
Oct 25, 2017
11,328
Boiled Goose said:
No. Vote out weak Democrats. Primaries. Just like the one AOC won against a Pelosi Democrat
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In a safely democratic area. No Justice Dems won in areas not already controlled by Democrats.

what AOC and warren ignore is the senate makeup is not like Nixon. Democrats had control of both houses in Nixon's terms. Securing an impeachment only required convincing 13 Republicans in the senate. Other than that, it was easy to secure enough votes to impeach. At that time, there were still more than a few northern Republicans that were progressive making it easy. Now, it requires convincing a third of house republicans roughly and half of senate republicans
 
PlanetSmasher

PlanetSmasher

The Abominable Showman
Member
Oct 25, 2017
115,742
What's the damn point of the Democratic party if they refuse to do anything? Why do they even exist? They're political equivalent of filler at this point.
 
Mariolee

Mariolee

Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
10,310
Nobleman Swerve said:
It's still amazing to me that people still seem to believe the only thing stopping impeachment is Pelosi. The Senate as it currently exists will under no circumstance muster the 67 votes to impeach Trump, it's a literal goddamn pipe dream. A democratic impeachment attempt would be nothing more than political posturing, a fight that Trump can easily walk away from victorious.

Pelosi isn't the one leaving kids to die in cages, and filing for impeachment sure as shit won't stop it.
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As far as I understand it, even if Trump isn't successfully impeached in the end, you'll have months and months of investigation and debate with actual evidence laid out that will air constantly on TV. Think the Mueller Report but basically all the time. That kind of coverage might be able to sway some voters into more heavily considering the accusations against Trump and voting in accordance with that.

On top of impeachment being the morally right thing to do, I'm not sure losing impeachment is any worse than where we're at right now.
 
Kormora

Kormora

Member
Nov 7, 2017
1,414
So the argument against impeachment is "We shouldn't do it because we can't get it through"?

In that case let's just stop enforcing laws, it's too difficult guys.
 
antonz

antonz

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
5,309
19%
That was the Percentage of Americans who felt Nixon should be Impeached in 1973 before formal proceedings started. Clearly the Democrats should have backed off and done the right thing which is nothing because after all the numbers weren't there.
 
Bonafide

Bonafide

Member
Oct 11, 2018
936
Kormora said:
So the argument against impeachment is "We shouldn't do it because we can't get it through"?

In that case let's just stop enforcing laws, it's too difficult guys.
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mainstream democrats are horrible at setting the narrative, the buck keeps getting passed to how horrible the conservatives are who are more than glad to run with it.

conservatives understand that even if it doesnt hit the first time, you keep at it until it becomes normalized in the public eye and people are forced to address it. that's [one of] the reasons hilarity lost [again], she had been smeared so many times the public was just tired of her.

whether its the intention of not, not pressing the issue on this and trying to run the clock out until voting time is just lowering the almost on the ground bar on what people can really expect from the state, which is just going to depress democratic votes.
 
Lentic

Lentic

Member
Oct 27, 2017
4,836
Funny to see people starting to turn on AOC now. She's the future of the party. Deal with it.
 

Deleted member 25600

User requested account closure
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Oct 29, 2017
5,701
Nobleman Swerve said:
It's still amazing to me that people still seem to believe the only thing stopping impeachment is Pelosi. The Senate as it currently exists will under no circumstance muster the 67 votes to impeach Trump, it's a literal goddamn pipe dream. A democratic impeachment attempt would be nothing more than political posturing, a fight that Trump can easily walk away from victorious.

Pelosi isn't the one leaving kids to die in cages, and filing for impeachment sure as shit won't stop it.
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My understanding is that it's the House that impeaches and the senate that puts the president on trial. The Senate doesn't get a say in Impeachment proceedings.
 

brainchild

Independent Developer
Verified
Nov 25, 2017
9,481
On point, as usual.



She is 100% right here. A president who is not held accountable for their actions may as well be a tyrant.
 
InASnowBoundLand

InASnowBoundLand

Member
Mar 9, 2018
3,766
AOC, with more spine than 50 democrats combined. AOC STRONG! She needs to start mentoring other Democrats, including the Speaker, who's a chump for Trump.

Keep up the pressure. Thank you for your voice, AOC.
 
Quality Garbage

Quality Garbage

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
1,650
San Francisco
The problem with Pelosi is that she's lost touch with the democrats average voters struggle. She doesn't understand that people fight for their lives 24/7/365, knowing full well they are likely to lose

She won't fight for anything she can't win because doing nothing has no effect on anyone she knows or cares about.

As her constituent, I don't support her anymore.
 
Volimar

Volimar

volunteer forum janitor
Member
Oct 25, 2017
38,515
brainchild said:
On point, as usual.



She is 100% right here. A president who is not held accountable for their actions may as well be a tyrant.
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Yep. Shouldn't be hard for people to figure out what she's saying here but some of the takes in this thread...

Dems have a duty here. The President has continued to break the law and they still don't impeach simply because they know the Senate won't act. It doesn't matter. At least you'll have gotten off your asses and done the work you swore to do when you took the job. Instead they sit on their hands and in 2020 will go "gee I wonder why the democrat voters aren't excited to go to the polls?"
 
Jeffolation

Jeffolation

Member
Oct 30, 2017
7,117
Pelosi is a feckless political moron. The longer she remains speaker, the more she enables the GOP to gain ground.

Get rid of this useless, pathetic coward of a politican. She's embarrassing.
 
Ferrs

Ferrs

Avenger
Oct 26, 2017
18,829
I don't understand this mindset of just not doing anything for the fear of loss. What kind of message does this send as a political party?
 

Deleted member 60096

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Mariolee said:
As far as I understand it, even if Trump isn't successfully impeached in the end, you'll have months and months of investigation and debate with actual evidence laid out that will air constantly on TV. Think the Mueller Report but basically all the time. That kind of coverage might be able to sway some voters into more heavily considering the accusations against Trump and voting in accordance with that.

On top of impeachment being the morally right thing to do, I'm not sure losing impeachment is any worse than where we're at right now.
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I'm pretty sure those that still support him aren't swayed by actual evidence
 
Pop-O-Matic

Pop-O-Matic

Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
12,899
Sandstar said:
ah yes, the fabled "impeachment hearings" That don't actually need an impeachment to occur.
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The impeachment process needs to start before we can really start getting into the nitty gritty of this all, and the House Dems have the power to start that, but are too afraid to start because "civility" or some shit.
 
Kyra

Kyra

The Eggplant Queen
Member
Oct 25, 2017
12,254
New York City
Pop-O-Matic said:
For people to vote Trump and all the Senators who voted against his conviction out of office after all the incriminating shit that'll inevitably be revealed during the case.
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As much as I feel impeachment is absolutely necessary, I have a problem with the notion that the criminality of this president isn't obvious enough for people to fucking know this already. Impeachment shouldn't be a goal post for what should already be an overwhelming movement to get the guy out. It should be a unifying rally to run up the score. But the idea that it is needed to get people to the polls may be a crisis itself. I don't need pelosi or AOC to know what the right thing to do is.
 
Xaszatm

Xaszatm

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
10,903
Ferrs said:
I don't understand this mindset of just not doing anything for the fear of loss. What kind of message does this send as a political party?
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They don't care. The Moderates here have solidfied their gameplan: "Vote for me otherwise you get Trump! Oh, I won't actually do anything against Trump nor will I reverse his harmful polices. Hell, I won't even punish him and demand we all kiss up to him in forgiveness! But still! Vote for me because I'm better than Trump!" It's perfect for them. They not only get to watch comfortably as society falls around them, they also get the high horse even if they lose because it's never their previous perfect candidates fault, it's the fault of everyone who felt disheartened and silenced (please ignore the GOP openly screwing the election results because they can't be blamed. Only the "bernie bros")
 
TheManWithoutFear

TheManWithoutFear

Member
Oct 28, 2017
1,469
This thread is wild.

AOC is basically indistinguishable in her rhetoric from a Republican plant at this point.

I'm not saying that someone on the right watched the Colbert Report 10 years ago and was like "What if we made our own version of this spoof in the opposite direction"...but if they had, I'm not sure they would've changed almost anything that she's done.
 
Wrestleman

Wrestleman

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,304
Virginia
While I agree they should have done something a loooooooooong time ago and the disconnect between this not being impeachable and Bill Clinton's "I definitely didn't have a blowjob in the office" lie BEING impeachable is insane... this is pretty much the same thing as the media being "Wait, yeah, what ABOUT Joe Biden?!" instead of focusing on Trump's actual crime with the Ukraine. It needlessly shifts the attention and blame. You can make the same point without the bullshit "yeah well, we're worse because we're letting him do all the racism and crime."
 
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Pop-O-Matic

Pop-O-Matic

Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
12,899
Sandstar said:
I'm not. I'd be perfectly happy if they started them. In fact, i think it would be a good thing. I just know he won't get convicted by the senate, so i don't get my hopes up that anything would come of it.
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Why do you think Trump not getting convicted would be a bad thing? If anything, it gives us a list of senators who are totally OK letting the rule of law die as long as it suits their agenda, and makes them all easy targets when it comes time for their re-election campaigns.
 
fauxtrot

fauxtrot

Member
Oct 25, 2017
454
TheManWithoutFear said:
This thread is wild.

AOC is basically indistinguishable in her rhetoric from a Republican plant at this point.

I'm not saying that someone on the right watched the Colbert Report 10 years ago and was like "What if we made our own version of this spoof in the opposite direction"...but if they had, I'm not sure they would've changed almost anything that she's done.
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We've got piping hot takes, folks!
 

Deleted member 2474

Account closed at user request
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V51NOyc.jpg
 
Xaszatm

Xaszatm

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
10,903
TheManWithoutFear said:
This thread is wild.

AOC is basically indistinguishable in her rhetoric from a Republican plant at this point.

I'm not saying that someone on the right watched the Colbert Report 10 years ago and was like "What if we made our own version of this spoof in the opposite direction"...but if they had, I'm not sure they would've changed almost anything that she's done.
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...I see, so having someone actually stand for us and not taking shit lying down is actually the key points of a Republican plant! Incredible! So, I guess the real answer is for all the minorities in this country to just bow our heads and be greatful the boots on our necks don't have cleats!
 

Dekim

Member
Oct 28, 2017
4,301
So the argument against impeachment is that the Senate won't convict? Even if that's true, standing by is letting Trump's continued criminal activity go unanswered is a dereliction of duty by the House Dems. How is that in any way healthy for our democracy? How does standing by and doing nothing dissuade future GOP presidents from doing the same thing?
 

Sandstar

Member
Oct 28, 2017
7,744
Pop-O-Matic said:
Why do you think Trump not getting convicted would be a bad thing? If anything, it gives us a list of senators who are totally OK letting the rule of law die as long as it suits their agenda, and makes them all easy targets when it comes time for their re-election campaigns.
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Because the people that vote for those senators will probably approve of them voting not to convict. Look, if an......octuple miracle occurs, and Trump gets convicted and removed from office, I would be ecstatic. But he's not going to be, and getting my hopes up isn't productive. I hope they do impeach him, but nothing's going to come of it. I'm not down on the idea, I'm down on people's pie in the sky optimism about what will result from it.


Dekim said:
So the argument against impeachment is that the Senate won't convict? Even if that's true, standing by is letting Trump's continued criminal activity go unanswered is a dereliction of duty by the House Dems. How is that in any way healthy for our democracy? How does standing by and doing nothing dissuade future GOP presidents from doing the same thing?
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It more that nothing's going to come of it, so don't pin all your hopes on impeaching him. Nixon resigned, and it didn't stop Iran Contra. Bush 2 had one of the lowest approval ratings in modern times, and it didn't stop Trump. Nothing stops them. They're shameless.
 
Goat Mimicry

Goat Mimicry

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
1,920
It's funny how Pelosi won't come near impeachment because it won't get the votes, but has no problem pushing for legislation that also has zero chance of passing.

When this country finally falls, it will be because Republicans made it happen and Democrats let it happen.
 

Deleted member 25600

User requested account closure
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Oct 29, 2017
5,701
TheManWithoutFear said:
This thread is wild.

AOC is basically indistinguishable in her rhetoric from a Republican plant at this point.

I'm not saying that someone on the right watched the Colbert Report 10 years ago and was like "What if we made our own version of this spoof in the opposite direction"...but if they had, I'm not sure they would've changed almost anything that she's done.
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syAwJwe.gif
 
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