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Deleted member 14313

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 27, 2017
1,622
Not attracted to the ground. All mass is attracted to all other mass in the universe over an infinite distance. The earth is just the closest very massive thing to us (obviously) and the effect weakens with distance. It keeps us on the earth, it keeps the atmosphere in, it keeps the moon in orbit around the earth and the earth in orbit around the sun.

I also don't think it's in any way reasonable to doubt relativity or gravity itself without offering some good reason. That poster does not have a good reason.

Urgh... read carefully. I only mean what I say, I don't imply anything. I am a student of Theoretical Cosmology so I very much know that. Yes NG states that all masses are attracted to each other but the everyday phenomenon of gravity, that which can be observed in every day life is that objects are attracted to the ground. Also I did not state that it was reasonable to deny GR or NG just that it was possible without having to deny your own senses.
 
Last edited:
Oct 27, 2017
3,654
Urgh... read carefully. I only mean what I say, I don't imply anything. I am a student of Theoretical Cosmology so I very much know that. Yes NG states that all masses are attracted to each other but the phenomenon of gravity, that which can be observed in every day life is that objects are attracted to the earth. Also I did not state that it was reasonable to deny GR or NG just that it was possible.

Good for you, define it correctly next time.
 

GeminiX7

Member
Feb 6, 2019
600
My girlfriend likes to troll me by pretending to be a skeptic (despite being a logical person and a chemist/pharmacist herself). We watched it last weekend and she kept playing devil's advocate to the pro-flat earther arguments.
 

Deleted member 14313

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 27, 2017
1,622
What difference? Honest question.
What someone observes of gravity in everyday life is only that objects fall toward the ground. This is the everyday gravitational phenomenon.

NG explains that phenomenon and many others by defining gravity as the attraction of masses inversely proportional to their distance and proportional to their masses. GR says that not only masses but Stress-Energy in general causes curvature of spacetime and that objects follow geodesics along the curved spacetime (in the absence of other forces) and that is gravity.
 

Rookhelm

Member
Oct 27, 2017
3,701
"Question science" in of itself isn't bad. Scientific discoveries should be questioned and refined all the time.

However, flat-earthers using that as an argument is being done in bad faith. They're not entertaining the possibility that the science is bad....they're entertaining the possibility that we're being lied to on an impossibly massive scale. Which has nothing to do with science.
 
Oct 27, 2017
3,654
What someone observes of gravity in everyday life is only that objects fall toward the ground. This is the everyday gravitational phenomenon.

NG explains that phenomenon and many others by defining gravity as the attraction of masses inversely proportional to their distance and proportional to their masses. GR says that not only masses but Stress-Energy in general causes curvature of spacetime and that objects follow geodesics along the curved spacetime (in the absence of other forces) and that is gravity.

But the second paragraph is exactly why stuff falls down when we drop them. Anyway this is getting away from the point, I'm sure we both agree gravity is real and the earth is round.
 

Deleted member 14313

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 27, 2017
1,622
But the second paragraph is exactly why stuff falls down when we drop them. Anyway this is getting away from the point, I'm sure we both agree gravity is real and the earth is round.
But the second paragraph contains two different definitions and explanations of gravity. One reduces to the other in certain limits but the underlying fundamental explanation cannot be both and in fact Newtonian Gravity which you defined earlier (and expected me to define in the future believing it to be correct) explains far less phenomena than General Relativity. That isn't to say GR is a perfect theory of gravity either. I'd be quite surprised if it was.

But yes we both agree that gravity is real and the earth is roughly spherical.
 

LostLink

Banned
Oct 28, 2017
162
User banned (Permanent): anti-science trolling and conspiracy theories over a series of posts (Flat Earth apologism)
What the fuck does it even mean to doubt gravity? Gravity is just the name of the phenomenon by which objects are attracted to the ground. You can doubt theories of Gravity such as Newton's Law of universal Gravitation or General Relativity but if you have observed an object falling to the ground you have directly observed gravity.

Apparently we also have a guy who doubts gravity because he doesn't know that air resistance which opposes gravity is a function of the shape of an object. So yes LostLink you are bad at science because rather than think "oh this doesn't make sense, let's research it and see why", you say "oh this doesn't make sense therefore it is wrong". There is even a layman level experiment which requires almost no thought to understand in this case. Neil Armstrong conducted it on the moon where there is no air and no air resistance with video evidence. In the absence of air resistance a feather falls in the same path as a hammer.

If you want to doubt the scientific consensus put in the work. You LostLink are worse than even many of the flat-earthers in this documentary who at least built some experiments (even if they then rejected the results of those experiments because they didn't jive with their beliefs).
You're too submissive to the scientific info provided to you to understand my state of mind. Keep on repeating the stuff you were stuffed with now. You're like the flat earthers too, believing certainly in things because someone highlighted them to you.
 

Deleted member 48897

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 22, 2018
13,623
Hey guys what's going on in--

flat,800x800,075,f.u3.jpg
 

uzipukki

Attempted to circumvent ban with alt account
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
5,722
You're too submissive to the scientific info provided to you to understand my state of mind. Keep on repeating the stuff you were stuffed with now. You're like the flat earthers too, believing certainly in things because someone highlighted them to you.
Oh wow.
 

Lakeside

Member
Oct 25, 2017
9,259
You're too submissive to the scientific info provided to you to understand my state of mind. Keep on repeating the stuff you were stuffed with now. You're like the flat earthers too, believing certainly in things because someone highlighted them to you.

And down the rabbit hole we go. (but not because of gravity, obviously)
 

Thordinson

Member
Aug 1, 2018
18,168
You're too submissive to the scientific info provided to you to understand my state of mind. Keep on repeating the stuff you were stuffed with now. You're like the flat earthers too, believing certainly in things because someone highlighted them to you.

I don't even...What? I mean science is a huge cabal that is trying to trick us now? I don't understand what you are trying to say. What evidence do you have that contradicts the aforementioned scientific data?
 

ScandiNavy

Banned
Apr 13, 2018
1,551
Norway
I can watch 10 to 15 minutes of trash like this, then my brain automatically goes into alarm mode. From that point, watching any more hurts me, my brain is punishing me.

So, no.
 

DazzlerIE

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,768
The most fascinating part of the documentary was Mark Sargent's descent into the friend zone. His lingering looks at Patricia - grim
 

Mengy

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,514
It's a doubtful law, for me and many others, and when I express my doubts about it that doesn't mean I'm anti-science or someone stupid at it. I just doubt it when I see a feather falls in all tenderness and all these different patterns of falling downward. Isn't that density and buoyancy? I hate it when a teacher tells me that if there's no gravity we would fly up into space! Isn't that ridiculous!

Um, seriously, is this a troll post or are you for real? Because if you are serious, then......O_o

cFOnfs4.gif


EDIT: oh, I see he got banned? Nevermind then...
 

Poltergust

One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 25, 2017
11,882
Orlando, FL
You're too submissive to the scientific info provided to you to understand my state of mind. Keep on repeating the stuff you were stuffed with now. You're like the flat earthers too, believing certainly in things because someone highlighted them to you.
Science is not a matter of "believing". Scientists observe things, form hypotheses, and test to see if the data confirms them. Scientists see the world as is with no personal bias; they do not blankly make assumptions about the world then try to cherry-pick whatever data suits them.

The great thing about science is that everything discovered through it can be reproduced. Yes, even by you! The whole point of going through the scientific method is to not allow fringe conspiracies (like flat-eartherism) overtake our view of the world, because independent tests done by a variety of people are what make scientific theories strong.

Not a single "experiment" that goes in favor of there being a flat earth would stand up to scientific rigor. Heck, even the one shown in this documentary (done by flat earthers) proved that the earth really is spherical.
 

Rookhelm

Member
Oct 27, 2017
3,701
Wait, I don't remember I said I'm a flat earther, all I said is that "Gravity" made me question astronomy plus the round earth. What's wrong in questioning science? I haven't seen the curvature of "planet" earth nor the "dome/firmament" the flat earthers folks talk about. Check my past comments, I'm not even sure anymore wether it's flat or round or oval. I'll look it up and keep observing life and pay attention to it because I'm grateful that I'm alive and my senses work properly.

I know you're banned, but the question you *think* you're asking is "what if the science is wrong?" But the question you're *actually* asking is "what if we're being lied to on an impossibly massive scale?" Which has nothing to do with science.
 

LL_Decitrig

User-Requested Ban
Banned
Oct 27, 2017
10,334
Sunderland
After the latest display of scientific knowledge by a "not flat earther but unconvinced and want to see a debate" poster, I hope the frustration of some of us old hands is easier to understand. These are people who insist on starting from a kindergarten-level understanding of the natural world and debating every single blind alley. They'll ignore posters who directly explain how gravity describes the free motion of objects in space, without even attempting to pretend that they've studied this topic.
 

Ravio-li

Member
Dec 24, 2018
952
Just here to say that this thread has been almost as baffling as the documentation...

Like, denying Gravity..... wow! What's next? denying the existence of light and photons?
 

GeminiX7

Member
Feb 6, 2019
600
I'd love to be in a relationship with someone who loves bad faith arguments!

Her: Have you been to space? Can you know for certain that the Earth is round?

Me, washing dishes: Have you ever been to Disney World? How can you know for certain it doesn't exist?

Her: ...Is this your way of telling me you're surprising us with a vacation? [Her daughter], Mike's taking us to see Mickey Mouse!!!

Her Daughter: YAAAAAAAY!

Me: *drops dishes*

I love that woman, but yea, its hilariously obnoxious.
 

Alucrid

Chicken Photographer
Member
Oct 25, 2017
11,470
Her: Have you been to space? Can you know for certain that the Earth is round?

Me, washing dishes: Have you ever been to Disney World? How can you know for certain it doesn't exist?

Her: ...Is this your way of telling me you're surprising us with a vacation? [Her daughter], Mike's taking us to see Mickey Mouse!!!

Her Daughter: YAAAAAAAY!

Me: *drops dishes*

I love that woman, but yea, its hilariously obnoxious.

so did you go to disney flat earth?
 

Mengy

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,514
I know you've been banned LostLink, but you are probably still reading this thread, and I simply can't let this statement of ignorance go unanswered:

I hate it when a teacher tells me that if there's no gravity we would fly up into space! Isn't that ridiculous!

No, no it's not ridiculous, your teacher is exactly correct.

Planets only exist in the universe because of gravity. Planets are actually just big balls of loose dirt, rocks, and particles, coalesced, compacted down and held in place by gravity which pulls it all towards the planet's core at the center. If you jump up it is gravity which pulls you back down. If Earth's gravity were to be suddenly switched off then jumping up would send you moving upwards forever, until yes eventually you'd leave the atmosphere and fly off into space. Just like your teacher said.

From a physics point of view, the force your muscles generate is what pushes you upwards, but gravity decelerates your motion and eventually pulls you back downwards. Without the counterforce of gravity there would be no force to counteract the push of your muscles, thus you'd fly "up" forever. Or until you hit another object out in space.

It gets worse than that though. If gravity were suddenly turned off then the Earth itself would begin to scatter. The ground would dissipate upwards due to the surface tensions of the dirt particles pushing against each other. Without gravity as a force pulling them together downwards the planet would gradually drift apart into a huge particle cloud. Cars would float upwards slowly into space, as would all people and objects which rest on the planets surface. Even buildings, whose foundations are merely resting on top of dirt and rocks, would drift upwards and away from the surface.

Gravity is what permits the material universe to exist. It is what allows planets to exist. It is a law of our universe, and it is real and a FACT, not a possibility.

Listen to your teachers more closely next time, and please try to learn rather than not.
 

ItchyTasty

Member
Feb 3, 2019
5,908
After moving to northern Sweden after living in southern sweden all my life I have no doubt about earth being round just by observing the sun, up here the sun never reaches the "top" of the sky during the winter half year. Instead it mostly graces the horizon, or almost don't appear at all.
 

GodofWine

Attempted to circumvent ban with alt account
Banned
Oct 26, 2017
2,775
It's the optics of the lenses that make the earth "look" curved of course.
There is no persuading them.
You could literally shoot them into space on a rocket and they would not believe their own eyes.

I dunno...when Elon posted "Why is there no Flat Mars Society", the FES responsed, because Mars has been observed to be a sphere. SO maybe (maybe), if they got blasted into space, they'd be like "Interesting".
 

2Blackcats

Member
Oct 26, 2017
16,157
After the latest display of scientific knowledge by a "not flat earther but unconvinced and want to see a debate" poster, I hope the frustration of some of us old hands is easier to understand. These are people who insist on starting from a kindergarten-level understanding of the natural world and debating every single blind alley. They'll ignore posters who directly explain how gravity describes the free motion of objects in space, without even attempting to pretend that they've studied this topic.

Yeah, sorry. To think I tried to debate with them, not that they responded.

The "you're just as bad because you believe science" shtick is infuriating.
 
Oct 26, 2017
782
United Kingdom
Loved the documentary, have been recommending it everyone I know to go watch it.

I wished it was pushed with the interviews about what actually is at the edges of the work? Always intrigues me with flat earthers. If its a wall of ice at the edges of where we live and then past that it just becomes nothing, how comes no one that shares their view has gone to the edge to film/photograph it, provide any kind of proof.

Didn't one of the people in the documentary say something along the lines, 'watch this space' or thereabouts when someone queried whats at the edge.
Surely that would be the thing these flat earthers could prove to the doubters its not a globe.
Just hire a plane/boat and go film this magical ice wall. If the can afford to purchase a $20,000 gyroscope, I'm sure they can find the money to go visit the end of the earth.
 

Servbot24

The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
43,384
I don't understand why I'm supposed to care that there are some idiots out there. Makes no difference to me what shape they think the earth is.
 

FliX

Master of the Reality Stone
Moderator
Oct 25, 2017
9,915
Metro Detroit
Loved the documentary, have been recommending it everyone I know to go watch it.

I wished it was pushed with the interviews about what actually is at the edges of the work? Always intrigues me with flat earthers. If its a wall of ice at the edges of where we live and then past that it just becomes nothing, how comes no one that shares their view has gone to the edge to film/photograph it, provide any kind of proof.

Didn't one of the people in the documentary say something along the lines, 'watch this space' or thereabouts when someone queried whats at the edge.
Surely that would be the thing these flat earthers could prove to the doubters its not a globe.
Just hire a plane/boat and go film this magical ice wall. If the can afford to purchase a $20,000 gyroscope, I'm sure they can find the money to go visit the end of the earth.
They are going on a cruise to find the wall next year.
https://www.theguardian.com/science/2019/jan/09/flat-earth-cruise-nautical-navigation
 

Doorman

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,962
Michigan
This, uh, "discussion" about gravity and how things are provable or not does a nice job of trying to highlight why the "we should try to engage these people and find a way to bring them back from the brink" school of thought generally cannot hold up. Even disregarding the issue of "how can you trust science" being the fact that scientific experiments are built around being repeatable, to believe in something like the flat earth conspiracy involves having to give up belief in the legitimacy of...basically every indirect source of information. Can't trust school, can't trust NASA or anyone else in the government, can't trust family or friends because they were likely taught by those schools you already disavowed, can't trust anything on the internet since the source could have lied or the information been edited by ISPs. To that end, why distrust what school teaches you for 12+ years but think it makes sense to accept the conclusion of a person you've never met making a Youtube video? That's a more credible source?

Let's take it further. If you think that school and the government is lying about the roundness or flatness of the earth and you only trust what you witness yourself (unless what you witness conflicts with your belief in the conspiracy, apparently), why trust anything that you don't personally experience? The number of times you have to make decisions based off of secondhand information is incalculable. Unless "the earth is round" is arbitrarily the one thing that's thought to be a grand lie (one with no real purpose behind it), subscribing to a Flat Earther's school of thought in general sense would become paralyzing simply for how much you have to take other people's word for things. It's like the kid that answers any explanation with "why?" but replaced with adults saying "how can you really know that's true?"

The reason it's anti-intellectual is because it's a method designed to grind all discussion to a halt until you just give up and agree with their side to make it stop. It's not debate, it's just a conversational siege.
 
Oct 25, 2017
3,723
The most amazing part of anti-science arguments is that they are almost universally spread through computers or smart phones.

Like, you're gonna sit here, and using a tool fashioned out of dead trees, animals, sand, and fukken lightning, all of which was smashed together through the power of Science(tm) and tell me science is bullshit.
k
 

Lakeside

Member
Oct 25, 2017
9,259
The most amazing part of anti-science arguments is that they are almost universally spread through computers or smart phones.

Like, you're gonna sit here, and using a tool fashioned out of dead trees, animals, sand, and fukken lightning, all of which was smashed together through the power of Science(tm) and tell me science is bullshit.
k

That's a funny take on it.. love it.

It's also frustrating because you know that a lot of the people pushing it online are just trolling the ignorant people for laughs.