• Ever wanted an RSS feed of all your favorite gaming news sites? Go check out our new Gaming Headlines feed! Read more about it here.
  • We have made minor adjustments to how the search bar works on ResetEra. You can read about the changes here.
OP
OP
Svearik

Svearik

Member
Oct 27, 2017
190
Atlanta
Only broke down once caught. That don't count as much in my book.

This is what hurts. I wouldn't even know right now if I didn't start randomly looking at houses. She only broke down once she knew I would have a chance at finding out.

I don't know how to trust her and my insides have been rotten for days. I want to trust her - I love her. I just feel like a sucker and like I'm being manipulated.
 

shintoki

Member
Oct 25, 2017
15,128
Only broke down once caught. That don't count as much in my book.

This. Its a kid coming out with the truth right when you're about to open the door. She needs to be the one to earn your trust back.

I'd suggest that she should only have a debit card going forward. If she really does want to fix the issue and restore your trust. She needs to become more of an open book.
 
OP
OP
Svearik

Svearik

Member
Oct 27, 2017
190
Atlanta
This. Its a kid coming out with the truth right when you're about to open the door. She needs to be the one to earn your trust back.

I'd suggest that she should only have a debit card going forward. If she really does want to fix the issue and restore your trust. She needs to become more of an open book.

I've learned a little more. It's a line of credit through PayPal so not a traditional credit card. I don't see it on her credit report.

She kept it from me by having a separate bank account that she used to break a piece of her direct deposit from to pay the minimum. We haven't had shared finances - more that I pay the mortgage and she pays the utilities.

The other thing I don't understand is that she has been saving for years using acorns. She has like 4 or 5 grand saved and invested using that. She has a decent amount of money.
 

Mammoth Jones

Member
Oct 25, 2017
12,332
New York
This. She has an addiction, a real problem and she needs your help to work through it. The amount of shame involved on her end must be enormous, and it's likely been weighing very heavily on her for many, many years.

She is asking for help, and based on what you outlined in your original post I think you should try and help her. Both for your relationship and for your child.

She might not be insinuating that you need counseling, she probably just doesn't want to do it alone.

Only broke down once caught. That don't count as much in my book.
This is what hurts. I wouldn't even know right now if I didn't start randomly looking at houses. She only broke down once she knew I would have a chance at finding out.

I don't know how to trust her and my insides have been rotten for days. I want to trust her - I love her. I just feel like a sucker and like I'm being manipulated.

Word dude. All I can say is for there to be trust there will need to be transparency and accountability. If that means you take more of an active role in your family's finances then so be it. Just don't let it be "she promised not to do it again".
 

MrKlaw

Member
Oct 25, 2017
33,066
This is what hurts. I wouldn't even know right now if I didn't start randomly looking at houses. She only broke down once she knew I would have a chance at finding out.

I don't know how to trust her and my insides have been rotten for days. I want to trust her - I love her. I just feel like a sucker and like I'm being manipulated.

you need to consider if you honestly think she is manipulating you, or she just has her head in the sand regarding this piling up debt and is desparate for you not to find out, hoping it'll go away while knowing it won't.
 

The Albatross

Member
Oct 25, 2017
39,046
My wife ran up steep debt as well, like you, about $10k, and we worked it down over about 5 years, for it to go up again, and we've been working it down. We have a pretty hands off approach with each others finances for the most part. I do our taxes, but we keep our accounts separate except for a joint account that we use for our daughter ... Like, the Democratic party's Child Tax Credit stipend goes in there, any gifts our kid gets goes in there and into a plain low interest savings acct.

But we've both overspent in the past.

If it was debt from befor eyou got together and even if it piled up around your wedding, I get that. There have been times where I've had to pay for a lot of shit at once, like this summer... My wife's car needed $2000 in repairs, then mine needed new brakes/whatever ($1200), then our water heater failed ($2900 because of some other bull shit), and then this trip I had planned for *months* the bill came due ... $3000 ... and all of a sudden I'm hitting $10,000 in debt on my CC (I usually pay for everything on my CC and then pay it off ASAP, but that kinda money was more than I had in cash coming in).... And I was embarrassed, and I didn't want to disrupt our regular stuff, like say ordering out on Fridays or going out to dinner occassionally, buying beer, etc. I just wanted to "Take care of it in my own time" because even though they were all pretty much shared expenses, I was embarrassed about the amount. And then because you've hidden it for some time, you keep hiding it.

There's a deep shame involved with financial stress, and it's easier to hide it than to talk about it. Part of the talk therapy should be about talking about finances and how to do it, because it can be really hard to do. Nobody wants to feel like a baby or that they can't manage their finances, and you often feel that way when spending spirals out of control.

IMO, she probably hasn't manipulated you, but that she feels a sense of anxiety, dread, and an unwillingness to confront her own spending, which can be embarrassing. She probably hides it from herself as much as from you, knowing it's there, but not really confronting it. I did that before too with a tax bill from the IRS for like $6500 because I fucked up my taxes one year. I knew it was there, but I didn't want to confront it, and the bill sat on my desk for months until I finally owned up and figured it all out.
 

Fatoy

Member
Mar 13, 2019
7,231
you need to consider if you honestly think she is manipulating you, or she just has her head in the sand regarding this piling up debt and is desparate for you not to find out, hoping it'll go away while knowing it won't.
This is probably it. She probably effectively hid it from herself as well. That's how debt tends to pile up in scenarios like these.
 

Elandyll

Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
8,827
I think couples therapy could at least help to figure out if this is something you guys can work through, for the sake of your kid at the very least.
Gotta figure out
1) how to repay 10 grand (is there stuff you guys can sell? $10K worth of "small crap" must be a *lot* of stuff, unless it's jewelry and that can be resold easy.)
2) is it obsessive compulsive buying (CBB) impulses? In that case you guys can probably determine a monthly budget for her to buy small stuff, maybe on a side account. She needs to agree to not use a CC, and maybe destroy the one she has.
Otoh if it is about compulsive or pathological lying, it might be a lot worse, as it was not so much the thrill of buying, but about hiding things from you.
And that would probably not go away easily I imagine.
 

Shroki

Member
Oct 27, 2017
5,911
She's an addict.

Get her help, absolutely, but moving forward her access to money should be monitored just like you would a gambling addict.
 

winjet81

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,021
I live in a world where my wife and I share a bank account, share credit cards and use YNAB to give us up the ability to do an instant check on our budget, even on our phones.

Everything is so wildly transparent, there's no way either one of us can go on a spending spree without the other knowing.

One thing I do with my wife (and believe me, we are crazy shoppers if given rope) is set up $400-$500/month budget for discretionary spending. When she buys a pair of shoes, that's the budget pool it comes out of.

I wonder if OP could implement a more transparent budget strategy like the above that empowers their partner to still spend, while providing the governance (and honesty) structure they need?
 

FliX

Master of the Reality Stone
Moderator
Oct 25, 2017
9,876
Metro Detroit
Its a loan. People want loans. People often need them. This ain't one of those "this is the corporation's fault".
I mean this is true, but there is also a cultural aspect to it. In Germany for example almost no one regularly uses credit cards. Everyone uses debit cards that directly debit your checking account. If you don't have money on your checking account you are not spending any money.
 

MrKlaw

Member
Oct 25, 2017
33,066
This is probably it. She probably effectively hid it from herself as well. That's how debt tends to pile up in scenarios like these.

I've been there when I was much younger (and single). Wasn't pretty. I'm still not great with money but I try and budget regularly with my wife so all bills (including larger yearly stuff) is laid out in a spreadsheet so we set aside as much as possible every month for things, and we leave ourselves spending money we can 'play' with and the rest goes to savings. Some flexibility in there but keeping it open to both of us via shared dropbox folder and talking through it at least twice a year to make sure its up to date with changes helps a lot
 
Oct 25, 2017
6,710
I've learned a little more. It's a line of credit through PayPal so not a traditional credit card. I don't see it on her credit report.

She kept it from me by having a separate bank account that she used to break a piece of her direct deposit from to pay the minimum. We haven't had shared finances - more that I pay the mortgage and she pays the utilities.

The other thing I don't understand is that she has been saving for years using acorns. She has like 4 or 5 grand saved and invested using that. She has a decent amount of money.

Separate bank account with a small direct deposit to pay off something that doesn't pop on her CR? That is pretty intentionally duplicitous there, and lie upon lie upon lie (or omission), that is going to take some work and plenty of time to repair. My sympathies.
 

sensui-tomo

Attempted to circumvent ban with alt account
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
4,629
I hope you get through this OP, from what it sounds like, your wife probably gets a dopamine kick when she buys something (something I know as an addiction that I had that I had to talk to and get help for) the lieing isn't 100% intentional but is a result of the addiction. (I was in a similar place where I lied like crazy and would felt like absolute shit but couldn't do anything before getting help)

My suggestion about the couples therapy, tell her she needs to see an addiction specialist or you won't bother with the couples therapy. If left unattended it will get worse and will happen again. It's going to be a constant struggle for her but getting help there should be her 1st priority otherwise she'll just repeat it again.

And about how you feel, however you feel is 100% okay. Don't let anyone tell you that you can't feel any way due to the trust that was broken.
 

lt519

Member
Oct 25, 2017
8,064
Sorry OP, that is really painful, and I think a little counseling/therapy for yourself might be a good idea to sort out your emotions. Maybe your work has an EAP program? I've used an EAP therapist in the past and it was really helpful.

But you absolutely need to take over/have full insight into the finances. Basically starting with seeing her paycheck and making sure it is all making it to accounts you can see. You have a family and her hiding debt is destructive/dangerous to the well-being of your child.
 

pj-

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
1,659
Make sure she doesn't identity theft your kid

I've seen that on r/personalfinance a bunch
 

ty_hot

Banned
Dec 14, 2017
7,176
Wow, that's terrible. Couples therapy? Does she want to pay for that with another credit card? Lol she is the one that needs therapy, what the hell will you do in a couples therapy? You are just pissed she hid 10k debt from you, again! Make her go to the therapist because she needs to deal with this addiction (I suppose) for the good of your family.
 

Fall Damage

Member
Oct 31, 2017
2,061
Something similar happened with my wife but on a smaller scale. Like you, it wasn't the money that bothered me but the break in trust. She straight up lied when I asked about her half of the finances and the truth later came out. It's a terrible feeling (especially since I found out on my own) and it took some time to get through and get the trust back. In my case the root cause was probably more about communication problems than anything. She has a hard time bringing up things she's not happy about and this manifested in her keeping financial stuff from me. For us therapy might have been useful, not sure about your situation op.

If you guys want to fix things and your wife agrees to it you could try a credit monitoring app like CreditKarma so you will be instantly notified of any activity. You can additionally freeze her credit. Maybe knowing she would be found out if she did this again would remove the temptation if it truly is stemming from addiction. 10k behind your back is big deal but I don't think it's a deal breaker if everything else is good between you. People are complicated and do stupid things sometimes but also have great capacity for change and growth.
 

Nothing Loud

Literally Cinderella
Member
Oct 25, 2017
9,987
Jesus, as someone with both mental illness (Complex PTSD, panic disorder, generalized anxiety disorder, major depressive disorder, suicidal ideation, ADHD) AND a spending addiction, there's a lot of fucking disgusting implications here about people like me that don't feel humanizing.

Therapy helps, but getting to the root of where and how the spending started can help you unravel and reduce it. It's probably something embedded in her that will take time and maybe meds and therapy to help. I've spent embarrassing amounts of money (like an 8K TV last week which I'm now returning for a TV ~1/3 the price now that the remorse for several reasons kicked in) before and thank god my husband doesn't read this forum or he would have divorced me and left me in the dust listening to all of you.


Wow, that's terrible. Couples therapy? Does she want to pay for that with another credit card? Lol she is the one that needs therapy, what the hell will you do in a couples therapy? You are just pissed she hid 10k debt from you, again! Make her go to the therapist because she needs to deal with this addiction (I suppose) for the good of your family.

Wow. Reminds me of when I was shamed in my own thread for getting therapy, and lo and behold, we have couples therapy shaming here too.

couples therapy can be important ANY TIME to support a couple, especially WHILE she gets her OWN therapy
 
Last edited:

ty_hot

Banned
Dec 14, 2017
7,176
Wow. Reminds me of when I was shamed in my own thread for getting therapy, and lo and behold, we have couples therapy shaming here too.

couples therapy can be important ANY TIME to support a couple, especially WHILE she gets her OWN therapy

Any therapy is good any time, but she brought it up because of the debt thing. So in her narrative the couples therapy is a consequence of him finding out about her little secret (even though she brought it up). I am not against couple's therapy but in this context it just looks like she is afraid of getting dumped and want him to have a therapist to go through this bad period... and don't leave her. When in fact she is the one in need of therapy.

Do you realize you suggested a couple's therapy + her therapy on top of the 10k debt? Therapy is fckng expensive. I don't think OP is in a situation to afford all that otherwise she wouldn't spend those 10k hidden... But if they can, then go for it.
 

Deleted member 68874

Account closed at user request
Banned
May 10, 2020
10,441
Personally I'd never stay with a liar, I've had enough experiences to realize that liars never stop.

Being lied to by soneone for years and for them to only came clean out of fear of being caught is really shitty. Sorry you are going through this OP.

Regardless of what course you take good luck OP.
 

GMM

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
5,484
That's rough and she needs help stopping this behavior, otherwise it will be hard making any financial planning for the future. Her credit cards should probably be canceled and instead she should have a debit card that she cannot overdraw, at least that could help prevent her spending money she does not have.

What makes this especially problematic is that she only admits to this debt when faced with the realization that you will find out, she has done it before and will probably do it again unless things change in a significant way.

I hope you find some help and are able to rebuild that trust you had.
 

JackDT

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,123
You can find plenty of single people who can't resist impulse purchases putting themselves into 5 figures of credit card debt. And they will be embarrassed by it and hide it from friends and family, even to the point of paying tons of extra interest on the charges just so that nobody else finds out.

This really isn't that uncommon and I wouldn't necessarily tie it into your relationship.
 

Akira86

Member
Oct 25, 2017
19,594
Jesus, as someone with both mental illness (Complex PTSD, panic disorder, generalized anxiety disorder, major depressive disorder, suicidal ideation, ADHD) AND a spending addiction, there's a lot of fucking disgusting implications here about people like me that don't feel humanizing.

Therapy helps, but getting to the root of where and how the spending started can help you unravel and reduce it. It's probably something embedded in her that will take time and maybe meds and therapy to help. I've spent embarrassing amounts of money (like an 8K TV last week which I'm now returning for a TV ~1/3 the price now that the remorse for several reasons kicked in) before and thank god my husband doesn't read this forum or he would have divorced me and left me in the dust listening to all of you.




Wow. Reminds me of when I was shamed in my own thread for getting therapy, and lo and behold, we have couples therapy shaming here too.

couples therapy can be important ANY TIME to support a couple, especially WHILE she gets her OWN therapy
the lawyer up, shave your head, hit the gym posts are only half joking. some of these posts want to see retribution a little too much.

'this is how we deal with liars' 'i could never trust this person again' 'i'd leave' i mean, *you* might, but this guy is married with children, and his relationship might be worth more than $10K and damaged trust that can be repaired.

they could even come out of this stronger, two healthy people in a good relationship. imagine that.
 

loco

Member
Jan 6, 2021
5,525
Intervention time. Set boundaries and get her into therapy. I'd also get a financial advisor and be honest with them on her spending addiction. Take record of everything too moving forward and set shared alerts on all accounts that you both have.
 

Mammoth Jones

Member
Oct 25, 2017
12,332
New York
You can find plenty of single people who can't resist impulse purchases putting themselves into 5 figures of credit card debt. And they will be embarrassed by it and hide it from friends and family, even to the point of paying tons of extra interest on the charges just so that nobody else finds out.

This really isn't that uncommon and I wouldn't necessarily tie it into your relationship.

Yea, if you just smashing sure. You married or in any long term commitment with someone trying to build a life together you ABSOLUTELY need to be on the same page financially.
 

HammerOfThor

Member
Oct 26, 2017
3,860
My mom repeatedly did this while I was growing up. I had a relatively frustrating childhood as a result, never able to do stuff that other kids in my area got to do because we couldn't afford it.

I don't really have any advice other than to say that for your son's sake, you need to work through this.


Yeah my mom was this way too. My home life sucked as a kid because my parents always had money issues, but solely because of my mom. Which means they always argued. My dad died a year ago and even today she has the nerve to talk shit about how "he never liked to do anything ". I remind her that it's because she would blow all the money and heresponse is always "we could have figured something out."

I could continue but it'll just make me more angry thinking about it.
 

GameAddict411

Member
Oct 26, 2017
8,523
Does she work? Because if she is relying on your income, it makes this seem way worse IMO. This impact your kid college fund or even things like vacations. is immense. if she is not working, maybe one of the solutions to this problem is for her to get a job to pay it off. But then there are experts who deal with such issues and they will have better advice then anyone here.
 

Grenchel

Member
Oct 27, 2017
2,298
If you are in a marriage, this is a big deal Imo. Not sure how people are seeing this otherwise. It can fuck both your lives up.
 

GameAddict411

Member
Oct 26, 2017
8,523
I've learned a little more. It's a line of credit through PayPal so not a traditional credit card. I don't see it on her credit report.

She kept it from me by having a separate bank account that she used to break a piece of her direct deposit from to pay the minimum. We haven't had shared finances - more that I pay the mortgage and she pays the utilities.

The other thing I don't understand is that she has been saving for years using acorns. She has like 4 or 5 grand saved and invested using that. She has a decent amount of money.
Any credit account should show up on her credit history. It doesn't have to be a credit card. I am confident. Have you actually seen her credit pull or she told you this? If not i highly advise you to ask her to provide a full credit history. There could be other accounts she hasn't mentioned. And if there are accounts she hasn't mentioned, then it's just bad. It would mean her break down was an act to manipulate you. It wasn't honest. If someone is honest they will reveal everything.

Please read this: https://www.creditglory.com/education/does-paypal-credit-affect-credit-score
 
Last edited:

Euphoria

Member
Oct 25, 2017
9,549
Earth
Sorry to read this OP, I wouldn't even know what to do if I were in your situation.

My wife also has this urge to always buy things. Amazon packages showing up every single day. Constantly ordering food delivery and just overall spending and never making cuts anywhere. Just never ending increases.

The difference here however is that I know about it. In your case it is being kept a secret. That's tough to deal with.
 

GameAddict411

Member
Oct 26, 2017
8,523
I mean this is true, but there is also a cultural aspect to it. In Germany for example almost no one regularly uses credit cards. Everyone uses debit cards that directly debit your checking account. If you don't have money on your checking account you are not spending any money.
Credit cards are more than just taking loans in the US. They are pretty much a requirement to be approved to get something like a car loan or a mortgage. This is done by credit history where credit card companies report payment and balances to 3 credit score agencies. When you apply for any loan they pull this history and decide if you they want to give you a loan. Another important aspect to credit cards is that a lot of them have awesome benefits when used correctly. Cash back bonuses can be up to 5% back on some items. That's free money. Also a lot of credit cards have warranty benefits to items you bought with them. like they can double the warranty period of stuff. Another big benefit is security. Getting any fraud payments with credit card is not a big deal at all. A simple phone call resolves and it's taken out of your balance. It falls on the credit card company to figure who stole what etc. Debit cards have similar protection but you have to wait weeks if not months for investigations etc. The banks don't care you have to wait. It's your money not theirs.
 

Citizencope

Member
Oct 28, 2017
6,212
Happened to me OP.
My wife took out a loan to help out a family member. "You would have said no." Well obviously this did not go over well.
Was convinced we would get a divorce but a lot of therapy, over two years basically separated and a bunch of changes financially and our relationship is amazing again.
This happened 8-10 years ago now.