Anyone else getting bored of the pretty boy/girl Final Fantasy protagonists?

[AndrewDean84]

Young protagonists are very rare in western AAA games. I remember 3: Spider-Man, TLOU 2 and HZD.

What's the problem with a few JRPG series with them?

Click to shrink...

I'm not bothered by it. It was just joking, mostly. I think it would be interesting to have a final Fantasy or other JRPG focus around a rag tag team of misfits that no one expects (or wants) to save the day.

Young and pretty protagonists just seems like a little bit of a cop out to me. Give us fallen/broken aged protagonists with maybe youthful companions.

 

[Kcannon]

Beyond the obvious lack of POC in FF, the equally large issue to me is the lack of characters that are over 20-25 years old. Why not have a protagonist that is 40+. Perhaps that even plays into the overall story, etc.

Click to shrink...

That's already the norm for most games nowadays.

Everybody is a sad dad now.

 

[Cyclonesweep]

I don't even think it's the main protag. They used to have a varied supporting cast but that's slowly just vanished

 

[Atheerios]

Fun fact this was posted a few days before FF16 reveal.

 

[Aurc]

He doesn't have any asian features? I've just explained how his hair color comes from a archetype of japanese characters, his facial features are are similar to Tifa's and Aerith's. Barret is a completely different different case.

Nothing about the presentation or coding or mannerisms of Cloud makes him any less japanese than Tifa.

Click to shrink...

That archetype can be a thing just fine, but the character factually doesn't dye his hair. You said that yourself. Are we going to disregard canon because of an external archetype?

So then, everyone in the game is / looks Japanese to you, unless they're Barret? I don't follow the line of thinking here. What about Biggs? Dunno about you, but he looks 0% Japanese to me. Shinra? Clearly an old white man. Jessie? She's based on Roberto Ferrari's wife, an Italian woman...

I also found this portion of Ferrari's page on the FF Wiki humorously relevant.

Ferrari moved from Rome to Tokyo in 1997 to pursue his dream of becoming a character designer in Japan. Prior to joining Square Enix he worked for Tatsunoko Productions, a famous Japanese animation studio, which Yoshitaka Amano spent much of his early career at, and did the character designs for Namco's Death by Degrees. For the latter, producer Yozo Sakagami hoped his Western sensibilities would help preserve the characters' intended Caucasian appearance, specifically noting that "with games like Final Fantasy," Japanese designers tend to make white characters look Japanese.

Click to shrink...

I guess in the end, it's all subjective, because there is no such thing as Europe or Asia in-universe anyhow, and characters may appear of varying backgrounds, depending on the person's own perception of them.

 

[bahorel]

Nope sorry I love them. Give me all the pretty boys. I love androgyny.

 

[Sojiro]

Doesn't bother me too much, although it would be nice to mix it up a bit (why weren't you the main character in XII Basch?) but are those images a kind of re-imaging of some of those characters? I don't remember FF protags 1-9 in particular looking anything like that in the original artwork. Was this what they were "supposed" to look like but couldn't before?

 

[Surakian]

Keep the pretty boys/girls, but give me some POC as the lead in the future.

 

[Mimosa]

Click to shrink...

CGI Cloud looks Asian/Hafu, In-game Cloud looks white/hafu

Also wtf is that app, Mixed people exist

 

[Belthazar90]

I'm no Final Fantasy expert, but surely certain characters are unambiguously considered white, right? I think it'd be weird for someone to look at Cloud and say "yeah, that's a blue-eyed, blonde-haired... Japanese dude!" If we can say Barret is black (which he obviously is), then we can say Cloud is white.

Not even trying to go all in-depth with a "guess the race of these Final Fantasy characters" game of some sort, just saying that for certain characters, it's quite evident what their race is, and it ain't always Japanese.

Click to shrink...

It's evident they're white for someone that default humans being to white (which is not a jab at you, It's pretty much the status quo), when you look at Cloud's facial features and don't see how Japanese they are is pretty much due to your worldview being western centric and your default reference being white people.

 

[Demon Lizardman]

A reminder to everyone saying no: Dark skinned people can be pretty too.

Down for this. Let my pretty homie from the tribe have a coming-of-age save-the-world hero story.

Click to shrink...

The protagonist of Project Athia looks black or of some ethnicity other than white.

 

[Aurc]

It's evident they're white for someone that default humans being to white (which is not a jab at you, It's pretty much the status quo), when you look at Cloud's facial features and don't see how Japanese they are is pretty much due to your worldview being western centric and your default reference being white people.

Click to shrink...

I didn't mention anything about facial features, though. I just brought up his hair and eye color, which are substantially more in-line with European people than Asian people. That's not a Western-centric worldview, it's just a fact. If anything, I think it's weirder to just default assume every character in the game is Japanese, when Midgar is clearly a multicultural, bilingual (you can see both Japanese and English on signs) city.

 

[Goldenroad]

It's a combination of the character design, voice acting and story telling that turns me off the most from "modern" (post-FF IX) Final Fantasy games. I don't necessarily dislike any one of those individual elements, but just they way the come together really does absolutely nothing for me. Like maybe the voice acting maybe wouldn't seem so bad if it weren't coming out of those characters, the characters wouldn't seem so bad if the stories weren't as up their own ass, the stories wouldn't seem so bad if the voice acting wasn't so cringe-y. I do enjoy other elements of certain post IX games, but those three things always end up being enough that I don't end up getting very far into any of the games.

 

[Bigwombat]

They look stupid as hell. Doesn't look like they have any character or personality when it's the same archetype over and over.

Cecil and Terra look nothing like what they do in the game. I like cloud and his design but that's what ushered in this style. Lighting is cool but after her they needed to drop the pretty boy image they have.

 

[Belthazar90]

I didn't mention anything about facial features, though. I just brought up his hair and eye color, which are substantially more in-line with European people than Asian people. That's not a Western-centric worldview, it's just a fact. If anything, I think it's weirder to just default assume every character in the game is Japanese, when Midgar is clearly a multicultural, bilingual (you can see both Japanese and English on signs) city.

Click to shrink...

Yeah, it's perfectly reasonable to only consider hair and eye color to identify what the character is based on (in a series where there's literally natural green hair and purple eyes) when the characters have all the most defining japanese facial features. Ok, everyone is white then.

 

[Gold Arsene]

It's evident they're white for someone that default humans being to white (which is not a jab at you, It's pretty much the status quo), when you look at Cloud's facial features and don't see how Japanese they are is pretty much due to your worldview being western centric and your default reference being white people.

Click to shrink...

FF7 has an actual Japan equivalent in it though which I feel probably makes the issue more confusing.

 

[Lockheartilly9799]

I just want more PoC characters, especially leads. Final Fantasy can take that next step. They can. Just not with XVI, I guess.

 

[Sea lion]

Click to shrink...

This is even more funny as Nomura stated Aerith was based on a Western beauty with Tifa an Asian one. Its like they're incapable of deviating no matter what.

 

[Smoolio]

Only playing a new FF if its a Female MC.

 

[Barrel_Roll]

I would mind having some older, or at least middle aged, as the protagonists of one of these games.

 

[J2C]

The thing I love about VII-IX is the stark contrast between games.

VII is gritty sure. There's still some practicality to the armor. The cast at least has a poc, though it could be better representation. Its grimly industrial. It tells the story of that industrial vs nature, its visual design is wrapped into the story

VIII is "beautiful" but seems so self aware and stylized in its beauty. All its characters are elongated pretty, like they came off a magazine.

And that's followed up by IX which goes entirely the other way, into oddball character designs, whimsy, eclectic mix of a party. And a world that's shortened, squat, heightened, romantic. It fits alongside The Shire or Hogwarts in world design.

This made each Final Fantasy feel like an event. They had their own distinct identity, to either love or hate. And the next game promised a new one to possibly be your favorite

XIII, XV, and now XVI heavily blur together. And I'm afraid my favorite styles of the earlier games are no longer in the series

 

[Quantum Nottle]

I'll take a Loran Cehack looking person at this point or Casca.

Interpreting Midgard characters from FF7 as Japanese seems weird to me, because the CGI is clearly referencing a Japanese face but they are all named semi European names and FF7 has its own Japanese analogue with Wutai, and people from there have Japanese names. Like I'm not sure you are supposed to read Cloud as Asian, because you are supposed to read Tseng and Yuffie Kisaragi as Asian. Cloud is from the place named after Norse mythology, and is really capitalist like a western place.

 

[Shining Star]

No. I need them MORE beautiful.

If I wanted them ugly I'll play western games- Hey yooh!!

Click to shrink...

This to be honest.

 

[Vulcano's Assistant]

Pretty boys are the trademark so I wouldn't expect it any other way, just don't make a whole party of pretty boys.

 

[Dark Knight]

I want more protagonists like Tidus. Sick of these pale ass pop stars.

Click to shrink...

Hmm... Tidus strikes me as being very inspired by the male J-pop/rock star look from around when X was made. Unless that's the joke?

Pretty boys are the trademark so I wouldn't expect it any other way, just don't make a whole party of pretty boys.

Click to shrink...

Right, like you need a Cid Highwind or an Auron in there too.

 

[Vulcano's Assistant]

What Square needs to rethink is how to do elderly men faces tbh. Lately they all look like a 30 yo with makeup.

 

[P-Tux7]

Why do Joshua and his girl friend

Click to shrink...

Wait are they actually dating or what

 

[Mik317]

They aint pretty enough if anything.

 

[Aurc]

Yeah, it's perfectly reasonable to only consider hair and eye color to identify what the character is based on (in a series where there's literally natural green hair and purple eyes) when the characters have all the most defining japanese facial features. Ok, everyone is white then.

Click to shrink...

I could say the same in reverse, then. Since hair and eye colors are arbitrarily whatever the devs want them to be, I guess everyone in Midgar is now Japanese by default. Cool. I highly doubt that's what the character designers intended. Plus, if we're speaking mainly in regards to 7R, there are very few characters with unnatural hair colors like green or purple.

 

[Deepwater]

The way y'all dig sooooo deep into race science on this website is amazing.

 

[JoJokomoko]

What Square needs to rethink is how to do elderly men faces tbh. Lately they all look like a 30 yo with makeup.

Click to shrink...

If people want more old man protag then how about Cid from FFXIV?

Make the protag and the cast PoC, people from different background and race and make them all handsome and beautiful like FF style then everyone will be happy.

 

[Stoof]

I'm fine with pretty girl and pretty boy MCs but we could definitely have more POC in the games and in the starring role too.

 

[Folstern]

Much preferred to the shit ton of gruff, hyper-masculine neckbeards.

 

[zaxil456]

As a POC myself, I agree with those that the problem is moreso in the lack of POC protagonists.

 

[Zen]

I like that Y'shtola is the face for XIV. But yeah I'm gonna echo that the problem is lack of POC chiefly.

 

[Phendrana]

Yeah, but I'd imagine there'd be an absolute outcry if they actually went in a different direction.

 

[Pickle]

I would be okay with it if the protag had at least some semblance of melanin.

Click to shrink...

X did!

 

[Belthazar90]

I could say the same in reverse, then. Since hair and eye colors are arbitrarily whatever the devs want them to be, I guess everyone in Midgar is now Japanese by default. Cool. I highly doubt that's what the character designers intended. Plus, if we're speaking mainly in regards to 7R, there are very few characters with unnatural hair colors like green or purple.

Click to shrink...

The character design is literally anime, have ever seen the concept art for FF VII? About unrealistic features: Tifa has red colored eyes.

Here let me give you one last example at how most characters are deisgned as japanese and it's very clear when they're not. Compare Jesse with Tifa and Cloud.

Look at Jesse's nose, eye shape, jawline and overall head shape. They're all based around mostly european features:

Now look at Tifa's and Cloud's. The difference is night and day:

For good measure here's Biggs and how they portraied western features for males:

 

[thermopyle]

Are japanese people now white?

Click to shrink...

As we all know here at ERA, Asians identify as 'nothing' and don't count as POC.

 

[Belthazar90]

As we all know here at ERA, Asians identify as 'nothing' and don't count as POC.

Click to shrink...

After the whole debacle a few weeks (or was it months?) ago I thought the discourse would've improved but, then again, here we are. I was not born in Japan (proudly brazilian), but both my parents are japanese and to read through this entire thread that I should not be indentifying myself with the very few characters that represent me in this medium has been quite an eye opening experience with this place tbh. The amount of erasure going on here is ridiculous.

 

[thermopyle]

After the whole debacle a few weeks (or was it months?) ago I thought the discourse would've improved but, then again, here we are. I was not born in Japan (proudly brazilian), but both my parents are japanese and to hear through this entire thread that I should not be indentifying myself with the very few characters that represent me in this medium has been quite an eye opening experience with this place tbh. The amount of erasure going on in this thread is ridiculous.

Click to shrink...

I would bet the vast majority probably aren't even aware of the sizeable asian diaspora in Latin America lol

I get people calling for more representation other than light-skinned asians but erasing them as japanese/asian altogether is some shit

 

[Belthazar90]

I would bet the vast majority probably aren't even aware of the sizeable asian diaspora in Latin America lol

I get people calling for more representation other than light-skinned asians but erasing them as japanese/asian altogether is some shit

Click to shrink...

Exactly, I agreed on most posts that yeah more diversity could go a long way in the franchise (even though we had examples from characters that weren't exactly light skinned as Main Characters, with Tidus and Vaan coming to mind), but outright saying those characters are white because Cloud is blue-eyed blonde? I wonder if those people think Naruto is white too (which would be quite funny, as both follow a very specifically japanese archetype, as stated repeatedly in this thread and ignored as usual).

 

[MoonToon]

I mean, FF and DQ are as Japanese as it gets so I would think they would follow the standard of beauty set in their media.
JRPGs love their pretty Japanese bois and girls.

I'd never even fool myself into thinking they would lead a FF game focused around a BIPOC or adopt the Western standard of "sad Dad" protags that are middle aged old and seen-some-shit. Most you could ask for is more female main protags imo.

Not sure how this is a problem. That's not to say they can't make other games with different types of people. I'm still wondering wtf Project Athia is but it's got Gary Whitta on it and seems to have the main character based on a pretty Black woman.

 

[hussien-11]

Edit: I'm not asking for "Ugly", just characters who look like actual humans with a diverse cast.

Click to shrink...

What's the problem with a fictional character being prettier than typical humans?

Does Mass Effect races look like humans? yet I never saw someone ask why they don't resemble humans.

Every series has its culture, its art, its direction, its own touches

Not every game should be super realistic. if you don't like it, look somewhere else.

 

[StrangeRoboMemory]

It's part of the Final Fantasy brand at this point. Doesn't appeal to me personally but I don't expect or need it to change. There are other games for me to play. That said, I'm interested in the new one, less due to anything about the art direction and more for the Devil May Cry-esque combat.

 

[Ruisu]

Exactly, I agreed on most posts that yeah more diversity could go a long way in the franchise (even though we had examples from characters that weren't exactly light skinned as Main Characters, with Tidus and Vaan coming to mind), but outright saying those characters are white because Cloud is blue-eyed blonde? I wonder if those people think Naruto is white too (which would be quite funny, as both follow a very specifically japanese archetype, as stated repeatedly in this thread and ignored as usual).

Click to shrink...

People who think Cloud is European-white because he's blonde must think Reno is Irish.

 

[MoogleWizard]

As we all know here at ERA, Asians identify as 'nothing' and don't count as POC.

Click to shrink...

That reminds me of the thread about the ARMS rep in Smash Bros, where a poster told me that a Chinese character doesn't count as diversity because there are enough Asians in video games already. Seemed to be a completely normal and acceptable sentiment here as no one challenged it.

 

[Jakten]

I mean, sure, this is an attractive man but... I don't get "anime pretty boy" vibes.

Click to shrink...

I feel like this is a good example as to how there is such little variation in how these characters look. We have to narrow the spectrum so far that all you have to do to change 'pretty anime boy' to 'gruff manly man' is add dark lighting, sparce stubble, and slightly tousled anime boy hair. By any other metric that's a pretty anime boy.

 

[Housecat]

I don't mind pretty boy/girl for FF. I'm a bit sad that the Dissidia design is used a lot though, as they all look a lot more samey than they would if you compared their original design. Like Squall doesn't look like his original design at all, neither does Zidane.

 

[Athrum]

Yes, gimme all the pretty boys and girls. I can look at ugly people in real life already.