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anyone else feel uncomfortable when watching old shows?

UltraMagnus

UltraMagnus

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
15,670
TV having diverse casting isn't really that widespread even today.

There are lots of popular recent shows that are as "white" or "whiter" what Friends got chided for.

Even like Game of Thrones which had like 70 different characters, there was basically only 2 regularily reoccuring POC characters (Grey Worm and Missandei).
 
TheDarkKnight

TheDarkKnight

Member
Oct 25, 2017
7,525
Just Take comfort in knowing the shows you love now and the language you use now will be looked down on by your children in 20 years or so for being problematic
 
UltraMagnus

UltraMagnus

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
15,670
Richiek said:
Not a TV show, but I just rewatched Back to the Future and forgot that Marty was trying to rationalize pretending to sexually assault his 1955 mom so his dad can save her and fall in love with her, and then immediately Biff actually sexually assaults her.

And then there's a deleted scene about Marty worrying he'll turn out gay if his mom falls for him. Ugh.
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Speaking of 80s movies, I still can enjoy John Hughes movies for what they are ... but man .... the most famous POC representation in his films are maybe Michael Jordan's cardboard cut out in Home Alone and the horrifically bad caricature of Long Duk Dong in Sixteen Candles.
 
Skade

Skade

Member
Oct 28, 2017
8,851
ascii42 said:
Yeah, just have to remember that for some time, that was the accepted euphemism, and in fact the correct terminology.
My mom works in special education, and while cleaning out old stuff found books like these:
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Well, the word is probably lifted from french, where it means simply "late". Wich feels "acceptable" to be used to describe a child with impaired learning abilities. But it was hijacked as an insult quite quickly, in french as well, so it's not fine anymore.
 

ParanormalFupa

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
6,141
Nope, I'm aware of it, but it doesn't really make me uncomfortable. Reading old books with objectionable material was a fundamental part of my public education as a kid so it's not some unfamiliar phenomenon.
 
Elegant Weapon

Elegant Weapon

Member
Oct 31, 2017
6,747
I have this problem with modern productions

I've never even tried to watch Game of Thrones and have no desire to watch The Last Jedi again, which centralizes the main plot around the powerful force users that "happen" to be all white even down to the white boy at the end with the broom.

I can't make it far in Fallen Order either; such a bland playable character
 
sir_crocodile

sir_crocodile

Member
Oct 25, 2017
23,482
No, I only feel uncomfortable when there is a poc and they're badly portrayed because of prejudices of the time. I watch tons of pretty old stuff too (more than I do new stuff), so this is something I come across on occassion.
 
Melchiah

Melchiah

Member
Oct 26, 2017
4,190
Helsinki, Finland
brochiller said:
Doesn't Netflix usually have a long credits roll at the end for translations? Might not apply to translations done before Netflix acquired the rights though if that's the case.
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I checked both the beginning and the ending of an episode, and saw no translator mentioned. The odd thing is, that I recall the translations weren't like that before the series was removed and brought back to the service.

EDIT: The local translators are usually mentioned in the end, as an overlay like the subtitles.
 
Lurcharound

Lurcharound

Member
Oct 27, 2017
2,068
UK
Nope. Not that I'm insensitive or don't care I'm just realistic and don't expect anything from earlier peiod to have been magically written for today; anything I watch/read I also understand the older it is the more it's a peek into that time whether intended or not alongside whatever the work's own themes and goals are.

That said I understand for many it can be upsetting, annoying or just too close to home if it serves as a reminder of things that haven't improved that much.
 
vacantseas

vacantseas

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,731
No. They're a product of their time.
There's nothing uncomfortable about it. It's unfortunate there's a lack of diversity but it was just simply a different time when media was made.
 
Transistor

Transistor

Vodka martini, dirty, with Tito's please
Administrator
Oct 25, 2017
37,127
Washington, D.C.
I love MASH. It's one of my favorite shows. But there are so many uncomfortable moments. One in particular that sticks out it when Hawkeye is making it clear he's having naughty thoughts about a sixteen year old girl.
 
L Thammy

L Thammy

Spacenoid
Member
Oct 25, 2017
49,991
jcs said:
Only "old" show I watch is Seinfeld - I'm sort of a obsessive Seinfeld fan. There are a couple episodes that deal with race relations, but I think only one is done well (when George tries to find a black friend so his black coworker doesn't think he's racist). The others are decent in concept but the execution is not the best, probably due to an all-white writer's team. As for the cast, I think it's fine since it's just four middle to upper middle class people living in the UWS/nice areas of Manhattan. Friends is way more egregious in that way.
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I like the one where Elaine wants to be in an interracial relationship because it seems fashionable, but is also scared to ask her boyfriend's race. It feels like it's de-defaulting whiteness a bit; it's a storeline that can only work because of the character's ethnicity.
 
Steak

Steak

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,327
The amount of shows that rely on tranphobia and homophobia for laughs is really jarring (friends is especially bad)
 
Teriyaki Blues

Teriyaki Blues

Member
Oct 28, 2017
2,026
Old shows? Really? I mean obviously the answer is yes, but do you watch modern shows or movies? Play video games? Read books? Or even news articles? A lot of stuff we consume now is no better, even if it is sometimes a little more subtle about it.
 
djplaeskool

djplaeskool

Member
Oct 26, 2017
19,736
Not really. Older TV series tended to be created with more rigidly focused demographics in mind.
I can still sit down and watch Frasier or Living Single without batting an eye.
 
Chopchop

Chopchop

Member
Oct 25, 2017
14,171
I accept that they're products of their time. Mostly by eyerolling at bits that would never fly today.
 
lunarworks

lunarworks

Member
Oct 25, 2017
22,126
Toronto
Some moments of old shows have me like "what? oh, no, that's not good", but I never feel uncomfortable simply watching them. But hey, I grew up watching reruns of problematic shows from the '60s like Gilligan's Island.
 
kurahador

kurahador

Member
Oct 28, 2017
17,533
For sitcom? Not really considering even most long running sitcoms in the last 10 years are single race focus.

Now for their portrayal of some people and those transphobic/homophobic jokes? That's pretty uncomfortable.
 
shaneo632

shaneo632

Weekend Planner
Member
Oct 29, 2017
28,989
Wrexham, Wales
Nah I accept it as a product of its time. Like I'm sure people will be wincing at today's media 30-50 years from now.

There are obviously egregious examples but generally I'm fine to accept it within its own context unless it's constant and egregious.
 
Max|Payne

Max|Payne

Member
Oct 27, 2017
8,953
Portugal
I've been watching Monty Python's Flying Circus on Netflix and for every timeless or otherwise harmless sketch, there are two incredibly dated or offensive sketches. Only some of it has aged well.
 
Garlador

Garlador

Banned
Oct 30, 2017
14,131
I lucked out and watched a lot of shows as a kid that were multi-cultural.
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Though even now, I hear people talk about how stuff like Power Rangers or Captain Planet were the exceptions, not the rule.
 
jetpacks was yes

jetpacks was yes

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
2,081
Teriyaki Blues said:
Old shows? Really? I mean obviously the answer is yes, but do you watch modern shows or movies? Play video games? Read books? Or even news articles? A lot of stuff we consume now is no better, even if it is sometimes a little more subtle about it.
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Yeah this is a good point. We've made some progress, but not a whole lot.

And what's with so many people excusing 90s shows for being "products of their time"? I remember thinking even as a kid when those shows were on how weird it was that everyone was white, especially Friends. Shows like News Radio even made fun of them for their whiteness on occasion. We've actually known for quite a long time that representation in popular media skews white and doesn't reflect reality--this isn't anything new. It's just that change is very, very slow, and certain things like the rise of the internet have enabled voices to be amplified. Don't excuse them away by saying they are "products of their time".
 
Desi

Desi

Member
Oct 30, 2017
4,210
Garlador said:
I lucked out and watched a lot of shows as a kid that were multi-cultural.
b22ed100a55fee774830b7068748ada7.jpg


Though even now, I hear people talk about how stuff like Power Rangers or Captain Planet were the exceptions, not the rule.
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obv as adults I can look at the outfit colors and make jokes but as a child, I didn't mind and Zack was cool. Yeah he had a god-awful haircut but he was cool as all get out. Same with Trini, she had the best outfits and a sabertooth fucking tiger. No one really fucked with Jason or Billy as much because they weren't as cool, total lames. Jason was the leader and somehow made a T-Rex the second choice. Kimberly only got by as she was the Pink Ranger and her zord could fly. Do feel bad for how they did Billy though behind the scenes.
jetpacks was yes said:
Yeah this is a good point. We've made some progress, but not a whole lot.

And what's with so many people excusing 90s shows for being "products of their time"? I remember thinking even as a kid when those shows were on how weird it was that everyone was white, especially Friends. Shows like News Radio even made fun of them for their whiteness on occasion. We've actually known for quite a long time that representation in popular media skews white and doesn't reflect reality--this isn't anything new. It's just that change is very, very slow, and certain things like the rise of the internet have enabled voices to be amplified. Don't excuse them away by saying they are "products of their time".
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well easy for me to look at it as if something is a "product of their time" could be in this case a time when television and films skewed predominantly white. Unless you are on UPN or some nightly TV Block like Martin and New York Undercover.
 
Digital Dinosaur

Digital Dinosaur

Member
Oct 25, 2017
7,034
Rita Repulsa's Moon Palace
Not usually, it's more fascinating to examine the restrictions and culture of media from previous generations.

However, one thing that does get weird to the point of being uncomfortable is the degree of black people being erased in older American shows. It's hard to disengage from knowing how ferociously racist many creators of those shows would have been at the time. And you can see removal of POC as not just avoidance, but advocacy for a sterilized white world.
 
Elfgore

Elfgore

Member
Mar 2, 2020
4,564
Kamek said:
Yeah watching Friends and the jokes in it is kinda cringey.
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Yep, watching it again and man a lot of the jokes and storylines in the early seasons are really homophobic. "LOL, people think Chandler is gay" and the whole Susan and Carol plotline feels like the whole fear of gay conversion.
 
Shoe

Shoe

One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,182
Sixfortyfive said:
The Simpsons kind of comes across in the opposite way at times. That show was considered outright scandalous upon release but comes across pretty tame now.

One interesting thing about it is that Smithers was black in his debut episode but was changed to white immediately afterward, and for what is arguably a good reason: the writers were uncomfortable with the idea of making the most subservient character on the show black.
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No, that was a mistake by the coloring artists from the get go and there wasn't enough budget to fix it in his first episode.
 
clearacell

clearacell

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,654
WriterInTheDark said:
Its kinda weird in 11 years of Frasier, there was less than 5 notable POC characters.
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If they're going for accuracy, I wouldn't have expected too many POC to be in his friend circle anyway. He's a psychiatrist living in Seattle who hates sports, loves opera, and his dad is a cop.

However, they had many episodes dealing with minorities if you consider LGBTQ people as minorities.
 
DiipuSurotu

DiipuSurotu

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
53,148
Garlador said:
I lucked out and watched a lot of shows as a kid that were multi-cultural.
b22ed100a55fee774830b7068748ada7.jpg


Though even now, I hear people talk about how stuff like Power Rangers or Captain Planet were the exceptions, not the rule.
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Interesting how the Black guy is the black ranger, the Asian is the yellow ranger, and the other girl is the pink ranger... >_>
 
Garlador

Garlador

Banned
Oct 30, 2017
14,131
DiipuSurotu said:
Interesting how the Black guy is the black ranger, the Asian is the yellow ranger, and the other girl is the pink ranger... >_>
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Everyone involved swears up and down that it was just a coincidence. The original Yellow Ranger from the pilot episode wasn't even Asian. Same thing happened when "Native American" Tommy became a Red Ranger. Still, though...


 
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