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60fps

Banned
Dec 18, 2017
3,492
Surprisingly, I'm in the mood for a new Star Wars game, and Playstation Store even has it on sale, but I'm not keen on an overly handholdy game at the moment.

This is EA and Star Wars, so in order to make the game more accessible to a bigger audience, I guess some handholding aspects have to be expected.

Nevertheless, I've seen people trying to compare Jedi's higher difficulties to Dark Souls or Sekiro - are these comparisons justified in any way?

How do the higher difficulty modes hold up? Are they balanced well? Most importantly, are they fun?

Or should I just get Devil May Cry 5?

Thanks, and may the midichlorians be with you :D
 

ShinobiBk

One Winged Slayer
Member
Dec 28, 2017
10,121
I played on what was the equivalent of hard mode, Jedi Master (not hardest that's Grandmaster). Once I got the parry timings down, the game was very easy. Nowhere near Sekiro difficulty. I've heard the hardest difficulty is poorly balanced and very cheap but I haven't played it myself so can't speak from experience
 

Kudo

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,884
None of the difficulties feel very satisfying, but you can see they've drawn some inspiration from Souls and Sekiro too.
 

spam musubi

Member
Oct 25, 2017
9,381
The combat is a lot jankier, which means the demands on the player are less fair. The animation cancelling is wonky, the iframes are wonky, the framerate itself is wonky, many enemies have attacks that track you, your attack patterns are sometimes unpredictable, etc. It's not well designed like a souls game, so playing it at a higher level is not a well tuned experience. I recommend putting it to easy and playing as a metroidvania.
 

Älg

Banned
May 13, 2018
3,178
Difficulty-wise it's nowhere near the level of Soulsborne or Sekiro; I think I died a grand total of 3 or 4 times on normal difficulty. I haven't played the game on harder difficulty levels, but honestly I can't imagine it holds up very well, the combat isn't nearly tight enough.

Still an excellent game though, totally recommend it!
 

Rizific

Member
Oct 27, 2017
5,951
I played on what was the equivalent of hard mode, Jedi Master (not hardest that's Grandmaster). Once I got the parry timings down, the game was very easy. Nowhere near Sekiro difficulty. I've heard the hardest difficulty is poorly balanced and very cheap but I haven't played it myself so can't speak from experience
I started on that difficulty from the beginning and share the same feelings. I even had to double and triple check throughout my playthrough to make sure I was on that difficulty. Not comparable to souls difficulty, at all.
 

sredgrin

Attempted to circumvent ban with alt account
Banned
Oct 27, 2017
12,276
The comparisons are in mechanics. Fallen Order has a similar posture mechanic in place. Basic stormtrooper you'll just one shot, but a higher up might require two clean hits or a well timed block to break before sticking them with your laser sword. Also has a similar "leap from above and one shot enemies" mechanic, though it lacks the mobility Sekiro does so its used less.

So it is Sekiro / Souls inspired, but it's still a rollicking adventure game. Don't go in expecting anything akin to Guaridan Ape.
 

Border

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
14,859
The combat is similar, but Fallen Order is not designed to be anywhere near as difficult, rage-inducing, or time-consuming as a From Software game.

Once you get some of the higher-tier skills from the skill tree, even some of the more difficult encounters can become a breeze.
 

Aswitch

Member
Nov 27, 2017
5,125
Los Angeles, CA
Beat the game recently. From a gameplay mechanical standpoint it takes a lot of inspiration from Dark Souls mainly with the mediation (bonfire) all enemies re-spawn if you rest mechanic. From a difficulty standpoint, I wasn't really a fan of their difficulty. It felt cheap in a lot of scenarios compared to the souls games where things felt more fair when I died it felt. So I ultimately knocked the difficulty down to story(easy) as I kinda want to feel like a Jedi badass and I felt the higher difficulties kinda took away from that Role-playing fantasy of mine for this game. Totally glad I did. I was surprised that even at that difficulty they still make you work for it so it doesn't feel totally trivial to play either. I enjoyed the game way more than I would've otherwise I felt.
 

Valiant

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
3,310
Its very similar to those games but it's a lot more forgiving with difficulty levels.

It's not a 1 to 1 but it's definitely close to any casual fans of those games and by casual I mean you tried them and gave up. Like me.
 

Gilver

Banned
Nov 14, 2018
3,725
Costa Rica
Just get DMC 5 if what you want a great combat system with alot of nuance, the high difficulties on DMC 5 are also incredibly balanced.
 

haradaku7

Member
May 28, 2018
1,819
itemization is what separates it for me, it changes everything about the gameplay in the souls games. Fallen order 2 needs more back end planing like the From games to be able to compete. it just a bit to basic for me.

Also, just get DMC 5 unless you really want that star wars....fallen order is a good star wars.
 

Deleted member 31817

Nov 7, 2017
30,876
The combat is much worse than Souls/Bloodborne but the inspiration is there.

It's worth getting otherwise but I definitely found the combat disappointing.
 

shinobi602

Verified
Oct 24, 2017
8,357
Not into Souls too much and haven't played Sekiro, but it felt harder than Bloodborne for me lol.
 

Dodgerfan74

Member
Dec 27, 2017
2,696
It's like Sekiro but extremely unpolished. It's all just kind of a jank, unsatisfying mess. I platinumed Sekiro through NG+8 and could barely force myself to finish Fallen Order on Jedi Master difficulty. It's not especially good combat but it doesn't reach Souls level difficulty at all - it's pretty doable at all difficulties.
 
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headfallsoff

Member
Mar 16, 2018
683
Echoing a lot of what the thread already says: it's completely true in that a lot of the core design decisions for combat, exploration and progression are ripped whole cloth from from software design trends, but also the execution means there's a canyon of difference when it comes to the feel and polish of the combat. It can get difficult but that difficulty is not always fun. If it's a tight and difficult action game you are looking for, DMC5 is a much better bet. But if you want a looser, more unbalanced and unrefined version of the souls forumla, Fallen Order will have you covered.
 

Rodelero

Member
Oct 27, 2017
11,537
I'm not sure I've ever played a game which felt so much like a hodge-podge of other games as JFO. Almost everything about its gameplay is a poor man's version of what you see in God of War, Souls or Uncharted. It's not a bad game by any means, comfortably the best Star Wars game this generation, but what it takes from Souls it also does worse than Souls.
 

HoodedSoldier

Member
Sep 29, 2018
2,267
I finished the game last week and played on the "hard" difficulty and never finished any of the souls game. The game isn't that hard. I mean you will die at a boss a bunch of times but it can be done by non soul experts such as myself.
 
Oct 30, 2017
8,967
It apes Sekiro to a pretty insane degree, considering how close the two released. Not so much Dark Souls, as stamina is non existent. It's all about posture gauge.
 

JigglesBunny

Prophet of Truth
Avenger
Oct 27, 2017
31,135
Chicago
Those comparisons come from the gameplay style (a very obvious rip of the Souls style), not the difficulty. It's like the easiest Souls game you could imagine wrapped in Star Wars wrapping paper.
 

Masagiwa

Member
Jan 27, 2018
9,902
Played on the hardest difficulty, didnt have that much trouble. First playthrough in Sekiro was way worse. This games borrow a lot of other stuff from souls.
- "Bonfires" respawning everything when resting.
- Picking up lost progression from enemies that killed you etc.
 

Bedameister

Member
Oct 26, 2017
5,944
Germany
-Short-cuts
-Bonfires that make enemies respawn
-When an enemy kills you you need to get back to it to collect your lost XP
-Melee combat with dodge and parry
-it's kinda hard on higher difficulties

I can definitely see where the comparisons come from
 

MeltedDreams

Member
Oct 27, 2017
7,956
It's like janky version of Sekiro. From's title does everything better, from combat and animations to level design and traversal. Hardest difficulty is what you can expect from AAA game with multiple settings to choose from. Rather unbalanced. It's tough at times, but never feels satisfying, when you defeat certain boss.
 

Tayaya

Banned
Oct 31, 2017
467
You can feel the souls and sekiro influences, but you will also gain an appreciation for how well the team at From Software has honed those mechanics in such a way that they feel fair despite the high level of difficulty. Fallen order is a bit clunky and the game does suffer a bit for it. However, it's easy to look past and just have a fun time if you're in the mood for an entertaining Star Wars game, which is what I'm getting out of it. It's one of my favorite games of 2019 despite the jankies!
 

Deleted member 15395

Unshakable Resolve
Banned
Oct 27, 2017
3,145
There's not a lot of combat overall if you ask me. It's more about exploration and traversal. There are a few combat encounters that are somewhat challenging on hard difficulty (like 2 or 3 in the entire game) but overall its not a hard game combat wise.
 

Deleted member 59109

User requested account closure
Banned
Aug 8, 2019
7,877
There definitely are some similarities. The combat is based on engaging individual enemies one on one and timing dodges/rolls or parries right. There are "stims" which are basically estus flasks, "meditation spots" which are basically bonfires. It is definitely more linear and story focused but there are shortcuts you can open up and branching paths making the world feel more maze like, along with hidden secrets, similar to Dark Souls. However it is much easier to navigate than those games, more linear and much more frequent save points. I think "Dark Souls lite" would be accurate in regards to combat, I'm playing on the second highest difficulty and it's nowhere close to as challenging as I found Demon's Souls or what little I played of Dark Souls/Bloodborne.

However, I still prefer it to the Souls games. This is mainly because of the setting and world building. Not only are the planets much more appealing to me than DS/Bloodborne's usually grey/bleak settings, but there really is a lot more information you can find in terms of lore. In DS you usually get short blurbs in weapon or item descriptions. In Fallen Order, the secrets you find can really be much longer and give a lot more info on the world. The creatures and enemies all have detailed descriptions, not just on how to defeat them but on their behavior and ecology as well. This was all much more interesting to me than the more minimal world in Souls.

Also, I see people complaining a lot about technical issues in this game's combat. Bloodborne and Sekiro's below-30 fps never seems to get brought up as much though. The complaints also generally seem to revolve around Fallen Order's combat feeling...unfair somehow? Like I said, I've been playing on the second highest difficulty and I'm finding it much easier than any Souls game I've played.
 

piratethingy

Attempted to circumvent ban with alt account
Banned
Oct 28, 2017
1,428
The combat is a lot jankier, which means the demands on the player are less fair. The animation cancelling is wonky, the iframes are wonky, the framerate itself is wonky, many enemies have attacks that track you, your attack patterns are sometimes unpredictable, etc. It's not well designed like a souls game, so playing it at a higher level is not a well tuned experience. I recommend putting it to easy and playing as a metroidvania.

Yup. There's a reason "put it on easy and enjoy the ride" is such an overwhelmingly common piece of advice for this game.
 

Shoreu

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,010
There is definitely some inspiration from Sekiro present in Fallen Order. However, the controls aren't nearly as tight as the former and i find the combat kind of boring in comparison.
 

DontHateTheBacon

Unshakable Resolve
Member
Oct 27, 2017
10,385
It felt like someone watched Sekiro and then attempted to recreate part of it in a different game/universe. Doesn't feel right though, if you're looking for something like Sekiro.
 

Van Bur3n

Avenger
Oct 27, 2017
26,089
The comparisons are sound. Albeit, they do not execute as well as FromSoftware, but neither has any other developer and all of their countless attempts.
 

Dr. Ludwig

Member
Oct 31, 2017
2,521
The difficulty balance is hilariously borked compared to Sekiro. Easiest to Jedi Master is a cake walk while Grandmaster is eye rolling in terms of bullshit.

The focus is on the adventure because the actual combat isn't very good but merely competent for a rip off.
 
Oct 27, 2017
920
It has a similar stamina/posture system and has some souls inspiration in structure and progression, but in terms of difficulty the game is only difficult due to a lack of polish. The game isn't as demanding as Sekiro, but it isn't nearly as tight either, so combat often feels like guesswork with not enough feedback.
 

blitzblake

Banned
Jan 4, 2018
3,171
Sounds like this compares to FromSoft as well as Lords of the Fallen and The Surge does.

It really is Froms combat and difficult balance that sets them apart from the rest. They really get that line razor thin.
 

Tohsaka

Member
Nov 17, 2017
6,796
It's much easier than the Souls games on the default difficulty, didn't try the harder ones.
 

BizzyBum

Member
Oct 26, 2017
9,153
New York
Playing on the hardest difficulty, Jedi Grandmaster, will definitely give you a Souls-like experience, IMO. It's still not as hard as Souls/Sekiro but it's certainly up there and no walk in the park. It does get easier as you progress and level up your skill tree but at the same time Respawn adds new enemies to match your leveling so you'll be challenged the entire way through. The game clearly takes inspiration from Souls.
 

Deleted member 4247

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
8,896
Difficulty-wise it's nowhere near the level of Soulsborne or Sekiro; I think I died a grand total of 3 or 4 times on normal difficulty. I haven't played the game on harder difficulty levels, but honestly I can't imagine it holds up very well, the combat isn't nearly tight enough.

Still an excellent game though, totally recommend it!

I played on the 2nd highest difficulty. Overall the game was still pretty easy, but some of the boss fights were frustrating in the wrong ways. Not really challenging/rewarding like a Souls game, more like the game's janky combat screws you.
 

Morrigan

Spear of the Metal Church
Member
Oct 24, 2017
34,362
I played not only both (on PC, 60 fps), but I immediately returned to Sekiro (and did a playthrough without Kuro's charm) immediately after beating Fallen Order on Grandmaster difficulty, so here's my comparison:

Obviously, Sekiro feels "smoother" to play. Don't expect the buttery smooth, polished, super-fast running, etc. in Jedi.

But, Jedi holds its own rather well, for a western game. It's pretty good at making you feel like a "Jedi", with all the powers at your disposal, both for combat and traversal/platforming.

There are some similarities to Sekiro for sure. There's a stamina system very similar to how posture works in Sekiro. Whittle down someone's "guard" (or stamina or call it what you will), and you can one-shot most enemies. Cal doesn't require stamina to run, attack or dodge, but does lose stamina of his own when blocking, so you can get guard-broken as well. There are meditation points that act as bonfires (respawn enemies, refill your heals, acquire skills, etc.).

For difficulty, well, I played on Grandmaster, then briefly lowered it to Jedi Master, then was bored and put it back on Grandmaster. For Sekiro players I recommend Grandmaster. It's very, very difficult at first; Cal will get two-shot by most everything, some optional mini-bosses early on will even OHKO him. But as you progress a bit more, you gain more skills, more HP upgrades, more healing stims, etc. and you can survive better. I regretted lowering it; I played most of Kasshyyyk on Jedi Master and I pretty much never died and killed the boss in one try, whereas on Grandmaster I'd die pretty frequently and needed to constantly be on my toes.

Compared to Sekiro, Grandmaster is close, I think. Early game on Grandmaster might be harder than early Sekiro, but later Sekiro is much harder than later Fallen Order. While the last two bosses took me a few tries, I certainly didn't retry them as often as I did the final bosses of Sekiro. So overall it's probably easier, but early game will be a bit brutal. So, it's not as well balanced as Sekiro's default setting, but it's still the most fun one for me and the later bosses were quite satisfying to beat.

When you progress into the game, Jedi gives you a lot of tools to handle encounters that would otherwise be difficult in pure combat. For example, you get a lightsaber upgrade that makes mass-deflecting blaster spam very easy and nukes everyone in sight. You can mass Force Push a whole bunch of people, including "elites", off a cliff. Some elites that are otherwise not trivial to melee, can be Force Pulled into your lightsaber for a OHKO. You also get lightsaber upgrades that do massive damage and/or have very good crowd control. Etc.

People who insist the hardest difficulty setting is easy are just flaunting assholes.
No one did that though? Jedi Master is not the hardest, but it is very easy for experienced Souls/Sekiro players. Grandmaster is the hardest, and is quite challenging.
Yup. There's a reason "put it on easy and enjoy the ride" is such an overwhelmingly common piece of advice for this game.
Not for someone who enjoys games like Souls or Sekiro.

I got mildly frustrated at some point and lowered it to Jedi Master and then I found the game way too easy to the point of losing its excitement, so I put it back on Grandmaster and I'm glad I did because the final few bosses were a lot of fun and required me to use all my Jedi tricks and powers to win. Taron Malicos, a late-game boss, was the most "Souls-like" boss and was a lot of fun to fight.
 

Fuchsia

Member
Oct 28, 2017
6,649
Game is a great time on the two highest difficulties. I wouldn't expect to die as many times as you do in a FromSoft game though. If you're experienced you'll do just fine.
 

sinny

Member
Oct 28, 2017
1,421
Jedi fallen order higher difficulty It's less forgiving than sekiro but once you unlock some skills it becomes much easier. The only difficult fight is the last boss and mainly because of the jank controls. You are fighting yourself more than the boss itself.
The game as it is shouldn't be hard . I hope fallen order 2 has better controls, it feels really cheap.
My recommendation is to play in an easier difficulty and call it a day.
 
Oct 27, 2017
12,374
The Surge 2 is more souls like than Fallen Order. I would say it's inspired by, but sloppily. I think the biggest difficulty issue is in the controls and the fucking parry not working properly as you get rushed by a bunch of varied creatures that you can't account for all at once, so your ass is taking damage.

That said, it is a challenging game. I just had a hard time telling what was causing the challenge.
 

Hey Please

Avenger
Oct 31, 2017
22,824
Not America
I have not played Sekiro.

However, to begin with, if you are planning to play this on anything other than a good PC, don't.

As for how it feels (on Xbox one X for me) purely based on combat:

1. The encounter design is problematic if you are used to locking on to enemies. It can be very sticky and that does gel well with mixed enemy type scenario, i.e. melee and ranged together.

2. The game's parry system is inconsistent between how it treats regular, heavy and boss types.

3. The player cannot cancel combo moves.

4. The game has hit detection issues for certain foes.

5. The animation system for enemies are pitiful and at times, unfair. The Slow power reveals the flaws in great detail- enemies can still turn towards almost at the same rate as if they remain unaffected. Worst of all, there is animation for this- they literally turn like a turn table model.

6. The time between asking for healing and the process of actual healing can arduously long and that does not pair well with point 7.

7. The game has issues with registering button presses. This is a huge, huge issue during tense fights.

Bloodborne, frankly, despite all its frustrations is in a different league when it comes consistency in combat rules.