Anti-Brexit Tactical Voting Resources

CampFreddie · Oct 30, 2019

Thé site is terrible.
My constituency is full of old people and very brexity, but with a decent minority of old school working class labour types. Lib Dems got below 5 percent of the vote, labour got over 35 percent.
This fucking site says vote tactically for the Lib Dems.

I am a traditional LD voter but even I know it's hopeless here.

Try tactical.vote instead. They give the last election stats so you can judge for yourself.

Big Boy · Oct 30, 2019

Op linked site is bullshit. Says I should vote lib dem.
Tories won the seat in 2017 (24k votes) with Lab 2nd (18k) and LD third (9k).

This site actually has the correct recommendation. https://tactical.vote/colchester

oledome · Oct 30, 2019

~~Windrunner is there a reason you want to keep this thread active?~~

[edit] I take that back, I mean maybe add the Guardian article to the OP / change of title

Shevek · Oct 30, 2019

Shit like this shouldn't be legal. The Lib Dems are nothing more than a Tory trojan horse. It's crazy to me that anyone would consider voting for these frauds

Zellia · Oct 30, 2019

OP needs to be edited to highlight the very legitimate concerns about this site's accuracy and possible bias.

kradical · Oct 30, 2019

Mewn said:
OP needs to be edited to highlight the very legitimate concerns about this site's accuracy and possible bias.

Concerns were raised immediately, from the very first reply, yet the thread has been up and the OP unedited for a further 4 hours. Seems deliberate at this point.

JediTimeBoy · Oct 30, 2019

kradical said:
Concerns were raised immediately, from the very first reply, yet the thread has been up and the OP unedited for a further 4 hours. Seems deliberate at this point.

It's possible that the OP hasn't been online.

LukeOP · Oct 30, 2019

This shit should be illegal

Big Boy · Oct 30, 2019

JediTimeBoy said:
It's possible that the OP hasn't been online.

You can see on people's profiles. OP was viewing this thread only a few minutes ago.

Oh no · Oct 30, 2019

OP has responded to the thread 3 times. I'm guessing they're happy with the site 🤷‍♂️

Edit: I'm in Scotland currently with a Tory MP. The site tells me

The leading parties in all Scotland's seats are Pro-European. We have not attempted to choose between parties who are our allies in the fight against Brexit.

Use your vote for any candidate who wants to stop Brexit.

when only the SNP have a chance of beating the Tory MP here. Shite advice it's giving out. Labour and the Lib Dems are absolute miles behind but the last election was so close that if their voters had voted SNP instead then the Tories wouldn't have won. The https://tactical.vote/ site seems better, says to vote SNP and shows how little chance Labour and the Lib Dems have here.

JediTimeBoy · Oct 30, 2019

Chocolate & Vanilla said:
You can see on people's profiles. OP was viewing this thread only a few minutes ago.

Oh ok sorry.

Sordid said:
OP has responded to the thread 3 times. I'm guessing they're happy with the site 🤷‍♂️

Edit: I'm in Scotland currently with a Tory MP. The site tells me

when only the SNP have a chance of beating the Tory MP here. Shite advice it's giving out. Labour and the Lib Dems are absolute miles behind but the last election was so close that if their voters had voted SNP instead then the Tories wouldn't have won. The https://tactical.vote/ site seems better, says to vote SNP and shows how little chance Labour and the Lib Dems have here.

I just read a tweet about this (Scottish Tories being pro remain), that was replying to the original "best" for britain tweet:

DECK’ARD · Oct 30, 2019

Thread should be deleted and rebooted with https://tactical.vote

s_mirage · Oct 30, 2019

This is a shill site, it has to be.

It recommends voting Lib Dem in my constituency. In the last election the Conservative candidate won with about 32000 votes to the Labour candidate's ~17000. The Lib Dem candidate got 2300.

I might be inclined to vote Lib Dem as they're the closest to my political alignment and I don't believe it will be possible to overturn a majority of over 15000 with tactical voting, but this site is giving bollocks tactical recommendations.

JediTimeBoy · Oct 30, 2019

More replies to the tweets: this time people being told by the site to vote for pro-Brexit Tories. Someone else was told to vote for David Gauke:

Oh no · Oct 30, 2019

JediTimeBoy said:
I just read a tweet about this (Scottish Tories being pro remain), that was replying to the original "best" for britain tweet:

MP here definitely isn't pro remain haha, never has been. Site just seems so wrong for many seats.

Gareth · Oct 30, 2019

Gareth · Oct 30, 2019

Another one for the OP:

https://tacticalvote.co.uk/

LabouredSubterfuge · Oct 30, 2019

*clears throat and prepares for inevitable shit storm*

So Labour have said they're pro remain then?

Because if the answer is no then the results from this website make a lot more sense.

Kind of encapsulates Labour's dithering on the issue to a T.

JediTimeBoy · Oct 30, 2019

This thread shows up as the fourth result on Google for

getvoting dot org

Volimar · Oct 30, 2019

Official Staff Communication

Added an additional resource that many posters have expressed a preference for, and adjusted the title accordingly.

Please get back on to the topic of tactical voting and do not derail the thread. OP posted in good faith and personal attacks are unwarranted.

Volimar · Oct 30, 2019

Gareth said:
Another one for the OP:

https://tacticalvote.co.uk/

Is this separate from tactical.vote? Looks like it is.

Gareth · Oct 30, 2019

Volimar said:
Is this separate from tactical.vote? Looks like it is.

Yep.

Timmm · Oct 30, 2019

LabouredSubterfuge said:
*clears throat and prepares for inevitable shit storm*

So Labour have said they're pro remain then?

Because if the answer is no then the results from this website make a lot more sense.

Kind of encapsulates Labour's dithering on the issue to a T.

Labour's policy is a 2nd referendum on any deal with the EU, whether it is theirs or another party's

It is pro-remain, and only difficult to understand if you are being wilfully ignorant on the issue.

LabouredSubterfuge · Oct 30, 2019

Timmm said:
Labour's policy is a 2nd referendum on any deal with the EU, whether it is theirs or another party's

It is pro-remain, and only difficult to understand if you are being wilfully ignorant on the issue.

Nope.

They have been specifically asked, upon getting a deal with the EU and putting it to a second referendum, whether they will then back remain. To my knowledge they have utterly declined to answer that question despite being asked multiple times. As someone who voted for Labour in 2017 and watched them help trigger Article 50 I am pretty fucking concerned by that silence.

If you're able to show me evidence to the contrary I'd be a happy camper.

Edit: the obvious point being that being pro 2nd ref is a long fucking way from being pro remain.

Timmm · Oct 30, 2019

LabouredSubterfuge said:
Nope.

They have been specifically asked, upon getting a deal with the EU and putting it to a second referendum, whether they will then back remain. To my knowledge they have utterly declined to answer that question despite being asked multiple times. As someone who voted for Labour in 2017 and watched them help trigger Article 50 I am pretty fucking concerned by that silence.

If you're able to show me evidence to the contrary I'd be a happy camper.

Edit: the obvious point being that being pro 2nd ref is a long fucking way from being pro remain.

They have said they would let each MP campaign on it as they see fit - and the Labour MPs and membership are overwhelmingly Remain supporters

Also article 50 was triggered before the GE in 2017 so I don't really get your point there

LabouredSubterfuge · Oct 30, 2019

Timmm said:
They have said they would let each MP campaign on it as they see fit - and the Labour MPs and membership are overwhelmingly Remain supporters

Also article 50 was triggered before the GE in 2017 so I don't really get your point there

My apologies on the second point, I definitely have my timeline very muddled there.

The trouble with the first issue is that Labour MPs have been cuatious if not outright scared of being pro remain when their consituents have voted a majority in favour (the math of which I won't get into).

My primary issue is that I like most of Labour's policies but don't generally think most of them are achievable if Brexit occurs. And there are evidently some pretty major figures in Labour that want Brexit (e.g Seamus Milne).

kradical · Oct 30, 2019

LabouredSubterfuge said:
Nope.

They have been specifically asked, upon getting a deal with the EU and putting it to a second referendum, whether they will then back remain. To my knowledge they have utterly declined to answer that question despite being asked multiple times. As someone who voted for Labour in 2017 and watched them help trigger Article 50 I am pretty fucking concerned by that silence.

If you're able to show me evidence to the contrary I'd be a happy camper.

Edit: the obvious point being that being pro 2nd ref is a long fucking way from being pro remain.

Ignoring the fact that the vast majority of the Labour front bench have said they would support remain in the second referendum whatever, the official policy is Labour would hold a special conference after the new deal is negotiated and the membership would decide whether to support remain or the deal, with remain all but certain to win given the makeup of the Labour membership. And really, who cares what they support in the referendum, as long as there is a referendum. They're not going into the booth to vote for you, you're not ceding your vote for their recommended choice in the referendum if you vote for them in the GE. Labour are offering what remainers have been begging for since the day after the first referendum, and this moving of the goalposts is bullshit.

LabouredSubterfuge · Oct 30, 2019

kradical said:
Ignoring the fact that the vast majority of the Labour front bench have said they would support remain in the second referendum whatever, the official policy is Labour would hold a special conference after the new deal is negotiated and the membership would decide whether to support remain or the deal, with remain all but certain to win given the makeup of the Labour membership. And really, who cares what they support in the referendum, as long as there is a referendum. They're not going into the booth to vote for you, you're not ceding your vote for their recommended choice in the referendum if you vote for them in the GE. Labour are offering what remainers have been begging for since the day after the first referendum, and this moving of the goalposts is bullshit.

You can't tell me that what parties or large numbers of MPs would campaign for and where the campaign spend would go wouldn't have any effect. Did you miss the first one?

kradical · Oct 30, 2019

LabouredSubterfuge said:
You can't tell me that what parties or large numbers of MPs would campaign for and where the campaign spend would go wouldn't have any effect. Did you miss the first one?

Large numbers of Labour MPs won't campaign for it, there's a handful of pro Brexit Labour MPs, the vast majority are remainers, and the official position of the party, as decided by the overwhelmingly pro remain membership at a special conference, will be to support remain.

Principate · Oct 30, 2019

LabouredSubterfuge said:
My apologies on the second point, I definitely have my timeline very muddled there.

The trouble with the first issue is that Labour MPs have been cuatious if not outright scared of being pro remain when their consituents have voted a majority in favour (the math of which I won't get into).

My primary issue is that I like most of Labour's policies but don't generally think most of them are achievable if Brexit occurs. And there are evidently some pretty major figures in Labour that want Brexit (e.g Seamus Milne).

Your misunderstanding why, while the majority of labour supporters in terms of total number of people voted remain, in terms of constituencies (which actually matter for elections due to first past the most) the majority of those that matter in terms of winning an election voted leave (winning a constituency gives you an mp).

That means if those leave supporting labour constituencies voted against them, they'd be annihilated. That's their conundrum and why they haven't come out as purely remain. Of course this is also hurting them.

They're stuck between the devil and deep blue sea. Lib dems are purely pro remain because they can afford to be they were almost annihilated last election and thus the only way is up via grabbing the remain vote. The situation is far more complex thab this party is more remain than the other and thus it's better. There's reasons why they are.

LabouredSubterfuge · Oct 30, 2019

Principate said:
Your misunderstanding why, while the majority of labour supporters in terms of total number of people voted remain, in terms of constituencies (which actually matter for elections due to first past the most) the majority of those voted leave (winning a constituency gives you an mp).

That means if those leave supporting labour constituencies voted against them, they'd be annihilated. That's their conundrum and why they haven't come out as purely remain. Of course this is also hurting.

They're stuck between the devil and deep blue sea.

Electoral count doesn't work on that. Leave votes =/= party political votes. In a leave constituency if they went hard pro remain they could pick up some remain conservatives and remain labour and maybe even some remain LD. With leave votes in such a constituency being carved up between Cons and BP, there is a distinct possibility for won seats, but probably not with an unclear position.

And that's without considering whether Brexit voter intention may have shifted in some of those constituencies.

Principate · Oct 30, 2019

LabouredSubterfuge said:
Electoral count doesn't work on that. Leave votes =/= party political votes. In a leave constituency if they went hard pro remain they could pick up some remain conservatives and remain labour and maybe even some remain LD. With leave votes in such a constituency being carved up between Cons and BP, there is a distinct possibility for won seats, but probably not with an unclear position.

And that's without considering whether Brexit voter intention may have shifted in some of those constituencies.

You can't say that because an election based purely on brexit hasn't happened yet. The previous election wasn't about Brexit because A50 had already been triggered and everyone thought things were progressing ahead smoothly, Labour weren't campaigning on stopping brexit nor a second refferndum. The lib dems were and they got almost annihilated.

You have seen the constituency map for brexit right? If things were split purely on remain vs brexit, brexit would yield the most seats by heck of a lot. That's the core problem.

Dyno · Oct 30, 2019

Volimar said:
Official Staff Communication

Added an additional resource that many posters have expressed a preference for, and adjusted the title accordingly.

Please get back on to the topic of tactical voting and do not derail the thread. OP posted in good faith and personal attacks are unwarranted.

Shouldn't it at least be worth mentioning that the third option which is still left at the bottom is being reported as highly unreliable? Leaving it there as is just makes it look legitimate.

SMD · Oct 31, 2019

Deleted member 8463 · Oct 31, 2019

I'm gonna be very interested to look at getvoting's methods, cause that site is straight up bullshit. If they're using the EU election as a baseline they don't know what they're doing.

CeeCee · Oct 31, 2019

There's a lot of (I'm sure good faith) misinformation being spread about Labour's position in a second ref.

Labour would decide whether to campaign for the deal or to Remain, at a special conference of its membership after the deal was negotiated. That is the fact.

My personal opinion is that, since the membership is overwhelmingly pro-remain, the party is therefore almost certain to decide to campaign for remain.

Tygre · Oct 31, 2019

A much simpler guide to tactical voting:

A spreadsheet listing the party who came second in Tory held seats in the 2017 election.

Deleted member 15440 · Oct 31, 2019

Principate said:
Is your dislike of Corbyn more important than handing Tories a massive majority and control of a hard brexit? If so your priorities are out of wack and seriously need to be reconsidered unless you actually want that outcome because it's seriously not defensible.

isn't that literally the LD party position though?

Deleted member 15440 · Oct 31, 2019

lmao check the fine print at the bottom

Deleted member 8463 · Oct 31, 2019

LD graphs are back baby

Rassilon · Oct 31, 2019

aeolist said:
lmao check the fine print at the bottom

That is quantifiably silly. What a numpty.

Noodle · Oct 31, 2019

Volimar said:
Official Staff Communication

Added an additional resource that many posters have expressed a preference for, and adjusted the title accordingly.

Please get back on to the topic of tactical voting and do not derail the thread. OP posted in good faith and personal attacks are unwarranted.

Seems highly disingenuous to characterise the other sites as simply "additional resources that many posters seem to prefer". It's been shown from the get-go the 3rd and original site spreads misinformation.

I doubt if a regular member had made this thread posters would see such a harsh smack-down directed at them.

DryCreek · Oct 31, 2019

formasymphonic · Oct 31, 2019

The sites being on some fuckery is extremely disappointing. They really need to remember how important it is that we are in a FPTP winner-takes-all system. We are in major need of a well coordinated and (most importantly) accurate tactical voting plan to change the direction of the country. It would be extremely depressing to see left to centrist leaning voters be divided unnecessarily and pave the way for a Boris Tory majority.

Windrunner · Oct 31, 2019

I was watching Liverpool vs Arsenal and during the match I was checking reactions on Twitter (crazy game, ended 5-5 and Liverpool winning on penalties) when I saw that Naomi Smith had just launched the tactical voting site in question. For those not in the know: she is a host on the most popular Brexit podcast, Remainiacs, and has organised several anti-Brexit protest marches in London busting the previous record held by the Iraq War protest march of 2003 (which I attended!) with the most recent one being in excess of 1 million people.

I punched in my previous post code and got Labour (accurate) and my current one which said Lib Dem (also accurate). I thought okay, this checks out and made this topic.

The vitriol and the accusations that have been aimed at me are deeply disappointing as a member of this community. I made a thread about a tactical voting website made by a group chaired by a well respected figure in the Remain movement in good faith and regardless of its flaws (that I wasn't aware of at the time of posting the topic), I feel that we should have been able to discuss its merits (or lack thereof) without recriminations.

JediTimeBoy · Oct 31, 2019

Windrunner said:
I was watching Liverpool vs Arsenal and during the match I was checking reactions on Twitter (crazy game, ended 5-5 and Liverpool winning on penalties) when I saw that Naomi Smith had just launched the tactical voting site in question. For those not in the know: she is a host on the most popular Brexit podcast, Remainiacs, and has organised several anti-Brexit protest marches in London busting the previous record held by the Iraq War protest march of 2003 (which I attended!) with the most recent one being in excess of 1 million people.

I punched in my previous post code and got Labour (accurate) and my current one which said Lib Dem (also accurate). I thought okay, this checks out and made this topic.

The vitriol and the accusations that have been aimed at me are deeply disappointing as a member of this community. I made a thread about a tactical voting website made by a group chaired by a well respected figure in the Remain movement in good faith and regardless of its flaws (that I wasn't aware of at the time of posting the topic), I feel that we should have been able to discuss its merits (or lack thereof) without recriminations.

The issue is that the site in question has been referred to the electoral commission for investigation (by people on Twitter), and serious concerns have been raised about it, by the Guardian. This information, at the very least, should be added to the op, if the site remains in the op.

Gareth · Oct 31, 2019

nekkid · Oct 31, 2019

Can we get this locked? We shouldn't be signal-boosting this manipulative information.

Or at least update the title and OP to reflect the nature of these.

T002 Tyrant · Oct 31, 2019

People don't understand that sometimes where you are located Labour are next near impossible to win and the closest way you can get the Tories out is to vote Lib Dem. -_-

My area says Labour so I'm happy.

VegiHam · Oct 31, 2019

T002 Tyrant said:
People don't understand that sometimes where you are located Labour are next near impossible to win and the closest way you can get the Tories out is to vote Lib Dem. -_-

My area says Labour so I'm happy.

Literally everyone understands that. The problem is this site tells you to vote lib dem in some areas where they are a distant third.

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