This is a hard topic to talk about because there's a lot to unpack here. And many have already said a lot of things. That being said, one thing we haven't discussed here is partly the issue of straight women basically causing issues here and being a very loud group that also ends up causing harassment to the actors and the creators of the story. While yes a portion of the shippers of the pairings are queer, some are not, and they tend to be the ones that cause issues for everyone inside and outside of the fandom. I have a feeling Mackie is talking more about them then actual queer fans in general, and there is part of the issue. These "fans" will use queer representation, or the desire for it, so they can have their "boys love" pairing.
Just look at the situation with Steve and Bucky. While, yes there were a lot of queer fans of Stucky (the ship name) there were more female non queer fans that would go out of their way to cause issues on social media to the point where some team members of the staff for the movies were harassed and bullied over the ship "Not being Cannon" and then some of these moved over to the Bucky and Sam ship.
This also leads into the issue of how this plays into Real person Shipping and the harassing of the actors. I mean, hell the book Ship It covers this whole issue of a fictionalized event that happened. The book has it where the lead ends up basically outing a gay actor by having him kiss his co-star before the public and basically forcing her ship to become cannon because she's the biggest fan of the show, or something. The whole thing was based on a situation from, I think it was Comic Con, where Jenson Ackles told a teen girl that he didn't see Dean as being into a relationship with either Sam or Castiel. This lead to the girl crying and Social Media piling on him.
Part of the issue that I think Mackie is trying to get at is this weird thing where fans, again mostly straight women, are using these ships as a means of getting their romance fix and this weird, and yes exploitation I would say is a good word for it, of queer relationships as a means of doing that, as they find two guys together hot. On top of that it dives into Real life shipping and has, no joke ruined, friendships in real life because "Men can't be friends, they can only be fuck buddies if they show they like each other." This isn't limited to just male friendships, it's hurt female friendships with singers and actors as well, and even some opposite sex friendships because actors and singers tend to wonder if their friend is actually feeling things for them. This is sadly true more of younger people in their teens and the like. Off the top of my head One Direction, and one girls group (I think Fifth Harmony) had this issue, and just take a look on Social media and you'll find tons of people speculating about the sexual exploits of various actors and actresses based on the pairing of them in a show.
And each and every one of these friendships has obsessed fans that ship these pairings, some are not so bad, others though are toxic as hell and end up causing issues for the actors. Disagree with this, most male friendships in movies tend to factor around pissing contests, or other issues. Let's look at the ones you listed.
Tony and Bruce, is less a friendship more a working relationship with some hints of Tony using Bruce at times. I would say at most they respect each other, could go for a drink, but Tony would never discuss his issues of being Iron man with Bruce and Bruce I don't think could with Tony.
Tony and Rhodey on the other hand is the closest we've come to seeing Tony show actual maybe some vulnerability too another male person outside of Steve and I think that's more because of his issues with his dad, and even then it's mostly when he's in a bad spot (drunk) or Rhodey is hurt.
Steve and Bucky are the closest we've seen to that platonic close friendship that you can see female characters share with one another. But because, again, of some straight female shippers who a heavily think they are having sex or must be because of how close they are and how much they physically touch one another, it can put a huge damper on how much visibility that closeness can be shown without being called, by these same shippers as baiting. (Put a pin in that physicality factor.)
Steve and Sam get some moments but nothing as close to Steve and Bucky, and it's a close friendship but there's not as much as there should be there. Steve is more the person that shows a, I use the term loving, feeling for his friends, but doesn't get to convey it as much as he should.
Bucky and Sam, we get some fun moments with them but a lot are peppered early with them not getting along as per the typical, two dudes have to be at each other's throats/rivals before they can even start to become buddies and I'm at least glad they're showing more of a close bond between them.
Peter and Ned, could be like Bucky and Steve, but we don't get to see it enough, and it's more worded than physical. Also you would think that Peter would give him a hug, has he ever physically hugged Ned, trying to honestly remember if he has. The only hug I can think of is with his Aunt and Tony and that's more on the family side of things.
As I said about the putting a pin in it. Name any of those relationships at any time where the two male characters did the following:
Hug each other? (Maybe Tony and Rhodey? Maybe Steve and Bucky? But in both cases I think one person was hurt at the time.)
Talk about any form of feelings or their relationship as friends? (In most movies and shows men that talk: Sports, women, their jobs, their issues with women, the food, their pets) You'll see more physicality with an animal than a person, and when they do hug it's the patting on the back kind of hug.
Say they love the other, or say words that imply they care deeply for the other?
It's, as others have said, Toxic masculinity that is held up in media, but a lot of that is also perpetuated by the type of shipper that I mentioned above.
This.
Throwing in my own issue here. Two of my students(males) are best friends and another student(female) in the same college started to call them a couple and at one point offered money to get a picture of them making out. They wouldn't and subsequently told me they would not like to come to the Student Union where she was frequenting.
I've read essays by queer men (and women) who have to deal with this because it's become, I don't know the right term for it, seen as a positive, to assume that two people of the same sex together are a couple. Like they're showing that they're allies for assuming this, or something. I do not get it at all, but it's becoming more common in some cases, or so I've read, at places like conventions or bars, and in some cases it happens to actors out with their friends. (Mackie may have had a situation like this at a con for all we know.)
Male friendships themselves are not rare in media no. But the type of friendship like you can see with two female characters on screen does not happen as often. Again most of the time it's talking about women, or sports, or work or something else. You'll see the male lead likely talking more openly with their sibling, and typically it's a sister, or maybe a gay best friend or something. It's never fully feels the same because male characters aren't really allowed to show weakness or vulnerabilities the same way female characters are, and that's, as others have pointed out, a thing that has grown out of the 19[SUP]th[/SUP] century to build up the "Manly man".
I do think there needs to be way more LGBTQ+ rep in these movies and shows, but at the same time I do think we need to have more stories where male characters are given the chance to be in friendships as close platonically as female characters get to have. I want to see Sam hug Bucky and not have someone assume canonically that they are in a romantic relationship, just as I was glad that Natasha and Steve were able to hang out without ever feeling the need to see them make out. We need these sorts of friendships in media so that people can maybe learn it's okay to be vulnerable with someone that you're close to, and not think 'hey these characters need to hop into bed because it's hot' all the damn time.
TLDR: Some straight Female Shippers of M/M pairings can be incredibly invasive, toxic and down right terrible to creators and use Queer representation in media as a means of self inserts and harass and bother creators on social media, and IRL over these ships and become vocal in toxic ways causing the actors to become uncomfortable and put in weird positions that they are damned if they do damned if they don't, and use queer ships as a means of pushing their own desires for an actor or character onto the story and the creators just so they can say "They won" in some cases.
Just look at the situation with Steve and Bucky. While, yes there were a lot of queer fans of Stucky (the ship name) there were more female non queer fans that would go out of their way to cause issues on social media to the point where some team members of the staff for the movies were harassed and bullied over the ship "Not being Cannon" and then some of these moved over to the Bucky and Sam ship.
This also leads into the issue of how this plays into Real person Shipping and the harassing of the actors. I mean, hell the book Ship It covers this whole issue of a fictionalized event that happened. The book has it where the lead ends up basically outing a gay actor by having him kiss his co-star before the public and basically forcing her ship to become cannon because she's the biggest fan of the show, or something. The whole thing was based on a situation from, I think it was Comic Con, where Jenson Ackles told a teen girl that he didn't see Dean as being into a relationship with either Sam or Castiel. This lead to the girl crying and Social Media piling on him.
Part of the issue that I think Mackie is trying to get at is this weird thing where fans, again mostly straight women, are using these ships as a means of getting their romance fix and this weird, and yes exploitation I would say is a good word for it, of queer relationships as a means of doing that, as they find two guys together hot. On top of that it dives into Real life shipping and has, no joke ruined, friendships in real life because "Men can't be friends, they can only be fuck buddies if they show they like each other." This isn't limited to just male friendships, it's hurt female friendships with singers and actors as well, and even some opposite sex friendships because actors and singers tend to wonder if their friend is actually feeling things for them. This is sadly true more of younger people in their teens and the like. Off the top of my head One Direction, and one girls group (I think Fifth Harmony) had this issue, and just take a look on Social media and you'll find tons of people speculating about the sexual exploits of various actors and actresses based on the pairing of them in a show.
And each and every one of these friendships has obsessed fans that ship these pairings, some are not so bad, others though are toxic as hell and end up causing issues for the actors. Disagree with this, most male friendships in movies tend to factor around pissing contests, or other issues. Let's look at the ones you listed.
Tony and Bruce, is less a friendship more a working relationship with some hints of Tony using Bruce at times. I would say at most they respect each other, could go for a drink, but Tony would never discuss his issues of being Iron man with Bruce and Bruce I don't think could with Tony.
Tony and Rhodey on the other hand is the closest we've come to seeing Tony show actual maybe some vulnerability too another male person outside of Steve and I think that's more because of his issues with his dad, and even then it's mostly when he's in a bad spot (drunk) or Rhodey is hurt.
Steve and Bucky are the closest we've seen to that platonic close friendship that you can see female characters share with one another. But because, again, of some straight female shippers who a heavily think they are having sex or must be because of how close they are and how much they physically touch one another, it can put a huge damper on how much visibility that closeness can be shown without being called, by these same shippers as baiting. (Put a pin in that physicality factor.)
Steve and Sam get some moments but nothing as close to Steve and Bucky, and it's a close friendship but there's not as much as there should be there. Steve is more the person that shows a, I use the term loving, feeling for his friends, but doesn't get to convey it as much as he should.
Bucky and Sam, we get some fun moments with them but a lot are peppered early with them not getting along as per the typical, two dudes have to be at each other's throats/rivals before they can even start to become buddies and I'm at least glad they're showing more of a close bond between them.
Peter and Ned, could be like Bucky and Steve, but we don't get to see it enough, and it's more worded than physical. Also you would think that Peter would give him a hug, has he ever physically hugged Ned, trying to honestly remember if he has. The only hug I can think of is with his Aunt and Tony and that's more on the family side of things.
As I said about the putting a pin in it. Name any of those relationships at any time where the two male characters did the following:
Hug each other? (Maybe Tony and Rhodey? Maybe Steve and Bucky? But in both cases I think one person was hurt at the time.)
Talk about any form of feelings or their relationship as friends? (In most movies and shows men that talk: Sports, women, their jobs, their issues with women, the food, their pets) You'll see more physicality with an animal than a person, and when they do hug it's the patting on the back kind of hug.
Say they love the other, or say words that imply they care deeply for the other?
It's, as others have said, Toxic masculinity that is held up in media, but a lot of that is also perpetuated by the type of shipper that I mentioned above.
This.
Throwing in my own issue here. Two of my students(males) are best friends and another student(female) in the same college started to call them a couple and at one point offered money to get a picture of them making out. They wouldn't and subsequently told me they would not like to come to the Student Union where she was frequenting.
I've read essays by queer men (and women) who have to deal with this because it's become, I don't know the right term for it, seen as a positive, to assume that two people of the same sex together are a couple. Like they're showing that they're allies for assuming this, or something. I do not get it at all, but it's becoming more common in some cases, or so I've read, at places like conventions or bars, and in some cases it happens to actors out with their friends. (Mackie may have had a situation like this at a con for all we know.)
Male friendships themselves are not rare in media no. But the type of friendship like you can see with two female characters on screen does not happen as often. Again most of the time it's talking about women, or sports, or work or something else. You'll see the male lead likely talking more openly with their sibling, and typically it's a sister, or maybe a gay best friend or something. It's never fully feels the same because male characters aren't really allowed to show weakness or vulnerabilities the same way female characters are, and that's, as others have pointed out, a thing that has grown out of the 19[SUP]th[/SUP] century to build up the "Manly man".
I do think there needs to be way more LGBTQ+ rep in these movies and shows, but at the same time I do think we need to have more stories where male characters are given the chance to be in friendships as close platonically as female characters get to have. I want to see Sam hug Bucky and not have someone assume canonically that they are in a romantic relationship, just as I was glad that Natasha and Steve were able to hang out without ever feeling the need to see them make out. We need these sorts of friendships in media so that people can maybe learn it's okay to be vulnerable with someone that you're close to, and not think 'hey these characters need to hop into bed because it's hot' all the damn time.
TLDR: Some straight Female Shippers of M/M pairings can be incredibly invasive, toxic and down right terrible to creators and use Queer representation in media as a means of self inserts and harass and bother creators on social media, and IRL over these ships and become vocal in toxic ways causing the actors to become uncomfortable and put in weird positions that they are damned if they do damned if they don't, and use queer ships as a means of pushing their own desires for an actor or character onto the story and the creators just so they can say "They won" in some cases.
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