Anthem Review Thread

[SmartWaffles]

Are you comparing content of a service game 2 years down the road with one just got released. How many unique strikes were on Vanilla Destiny 2?

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A 2019 game gets compared with a 2019 game, simple as that. Maybe have a higher standard? Also, every single vanilla Destiny 2 strike are specifically designed missions with dedicated areas, the majority of them also has specific mechanics or objectives tied to them. The quality varies sure, like the stink that is Exodus Crash, but the majority of D2 strikes were also enjoyable to play through.

 

[Deleted member 5596]

You typically compare new releases to current offerings in the genre. Anthem launch is competing with Destiny at its peak, not its launch.

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It's a service game, it's different that comparing other genres, Destiny 2 vanilla release was as dull as Anthem if not more.

A 2019 game gets compared with a 2019 game, simple as that. Maybe have a higher standard?

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Plenty of games from the past are better than 2019 games, what's your point? Destiny 2 vanilla campaign is worse than dozen of other FPS SP campaigns from years ago.

I can compare Destiny 2 campaign against fucking Wolfenstein from last gen and the latter would win...

 

[stan423321]

Did we index PCWorld's review?

 

[astro]

It's a service game, it's different that comparing other genres, Destiny 2 vanilla release was as dull as Anthem if not more.

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The point people are making is that Bioware had ample real-world examples of games that had bad launches and had grown into better games. The kinks and issues of the bad launch to good game had been worked out for them.

And they seem to have learnt nothing from it.

 

[SneakersSO]

It's a service game, it's different that comparing other genres, Destiny 2 vanilla release was as dull as Anthem if not more.

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And yet, other service games that launched in this 6 year timeframe since Destiny, aka The Division, which is how long development of Anthem went on for, managed to launch in a state where its content offering was deep at launch and matched the expectation that the market set.

Also, you're INSANE if you think the content offering of D2 launch was as anemic as this. You clearly didn't play it. The game has PvP for crying out loud.

 

[SmartWaffles]

It's a service game, it's different that comparing other genres, Destiny 2 vanilla release was as dull as Anthem if not more.



Plenty of games from the past are better than 2019 games, what's your point? Destiny 2 vanilla campaign is worse than dozen of other FPS SP campaigns from years ago.

I can compare Destiny 2 campaign against fucking Wolfenstein from last gen and the latter would win...

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Comparing Anthem to a known mediocre game like vanilla D2, pretty much speaks of itself. Vanilla D2 wasn't good by any means, but the reviewers back then had a good time playing it, Anthem doesn't even have that fortune.

 

[Deleted member 5596]

The point people are making is that Bioware had ample real-world examples of games that had bad launches and had grown into better games. The kinks and issues of the bad launch to good game had been worked out for them.

And they seem to have learnt nothing from it.

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Forsaken was released...like what? less than a few months ago? Destiny 2 vanilla release wasn't that far away...it was a Q3 2017 game.

And yet, other service games that launched in this 6 year timeframe since Destiny, aka The Division, which is how long development of Anthem went on for, managed to launch in a state where its content offering was deep at launch and matched the expectation that the market set.

Also, you're INSANE if you think the content offering of D2 launch was as anemic as this. You clearly didn't play it. The game has PvP for crying out loud.

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The Division was also heavily criticized on it's launch and end game too... that's some revisionist shit.

 

[SneakersSO]

Forsaken was released...like what? less than a few months ago? Destiny 2 vanilla release wasn't that far away...it was a Q3 2017 game.

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And Destiny 1: The Taken King, the prior gold standard of the genre, was released in 2015, so don't pretend Bioware only had 6 months of good inspiration on the market, when the majority of Destiny players have been clamoring for Taken King design sensibilities since 2016.

 

[Lyng]

And yet, other service games that launched in this 6 year timeframe since Destiny, aka The Division, which is how long development of Anthem went on for, managed to launch in a state where its content offering was deep at launch and matched the expectation that the market set.

Also, you're INSANE if you think the content offering of D2 launch was as anemic as this. You clearly didn't play it. The game has PvP for crying out loud.

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Wait what?? Division launched with zero end game and tons of issues. It's in a good place now. But at launch it was baaaaaad.

 

[SmartWaffles]

Forsaken was released...like what? less than a few months ago? Destiny 2 vanilla release wasn't that far away...it was a Q3 2017 game.



The Division was also heavily crticized on it's launch and end game too... that's some revisionist shit.

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Forsaken was released nearly half a year ago. Year 1 Destiny 2 got to a good spot with May 2018's expansion. The Division had a major endgame revamp, making it an actual great looter at the end of 2017/beginning of 2018 which was over a year ago. Weak excuse.

 

[SneakersSO]

The Division was also heavily criticized on it's launch and end game too... that's some revisionist shit.

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Wait what?? Division launched with zero end game and tons of issues. It's in a good place now. But at launch it was baaaaaad.

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Division 1 did have a lot of problems, I didn't say it didn't, however, they at least attempted to offer content as if they were competing in a market with other game offerings. They weren't pretending like they were launching a game in 2014 - they were competing with Diablo 3 & Destiny and they offered content to appeal to those kinds of players.

 

[juventino13]

from my PSN friendlist (many Destiny players) there are more and more people playing the game. doesn´t exactly speak for the Destiny community imo, seems like a case of low standards "loot and level ups is all i need in mah game" so, at least in this community it seems to have sold copies.

but there were also many people who played FO76 at launch on my FL so i don´t know if this is a good metric.

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Its not

 

[Bold One]

It's a service game, it's different that comparing other genres, Destiny 2 vanilla release was as dull as Anthem if not more.



Plenty of games from the past are better than 2019 games, what's your point? Destiny 2 vanilla campaign is worse than dozen of other FPS SP campaigns from years ago.

I can compare Destiny 2 campaign against fucking Wolfenstein from last gen and the latter would win...

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😂 What am I reading?


Jesus, Anthem bombing really broke some of you.

Destiny 2 campaign did not pull up any trees. But it hits far more than it misses, the same can not be said for Anthem, it also helps that it gets the basics right from the get go.

 

[Deleted member 5596]

And Destiny 1: The Taken King, the prior gold standard of the genre, was released in 2015, so don't pretend Bioware only had 6 months of good inspiration on the market, when the majority of Destiny players have been clamoring for Taken King design sensibilities since 2016.

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How do you explain then Taken King with Vanilla 2? Or The Division rocky launch too? Maybe it's inherent to the effort required to make a service based game like this which focuses on a base that can be improved throught time?

Is clear that Anthem was in dev hell, many other games where, but most of these games are released which an incredibly basic vanilla campaign design for a reason.

Forsaken was released nearly half a year ago. Year 1 Destiny 2 got to a good spot with May 2018's expansion. The Division had a major endgame revamp, making it an actual great looter at the end of 2017/beginning of 2018 which was over a year ago. Weak excuse.

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But Division was released on 2016...and you mention content released 2 years later?

 

[Deleted member 29249]

I fell off Divison after the underground expansion but didn't they add a literal survival mode? Talk about following tragic trends...

Sure battle royale will make its way to the sequel.

 

[Lyng]

Forsaken was released nearly half a year ago. Year 1 Destiny 2 got to a good spot with May 2018's expansion. The Division had a major endgame revamp, making it an actual great looter at the end of 2017/beginning of 2018 which was over a year ago. Weak excuse.

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And yet the next DLC, albeit small, fir D2 was very bad again.
BioWare are absolutely not excused. It's baffling how they have learned nothing from their competitors.
My original point was that I doubt it will ever become truly great, just like D2 that only has Forsaken going for it. And that was for a big part made in cooperation with Vicarious Visions on whom Bungie cannot fall back anymore.
The genre is pretty ripe for the taking to be honest.

 

[SmartWaffles]

How do you explain then Taken King with Vanilla 2? Or The Division rocky launch too? Maybe it's inherent to the effort required to make a service based game like this which focuses on a base that can be improved throught time?

Is clear that Anthem was in dev hell, many other games where, but most of these games are released which an incredibly basic vanilla campaign design for a reason.

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The Division: lack of experience, which is understandable, they had only vanilla Destiny to learn from which wasn't good, The Taken King wasn't even out until less than half a year of its launch.
Destiny 2: Bungie misjudged feedback and went to chase a casual market which completely falters, they then returned to their hardcore grind roots with Forsaken and got great access.

Anthem could learn from both during its lengthy development cycle. They didn't. You are acting like service games have a right to be bad at launch which it DOES NOT HAVE.

 

[astro]

Forsaken was released...like what? less than a few months ago? Destiny 2 vanilla release wasn't that far away...it was a Q3 2017 game.



The Division was also heavily criticized on it's launch and end game too... that's some revisionist shit.

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The division scored 79-80 on launch via metacritic.

Destiny 2 was also well recieved at launch with similar scores (85 on ps4).

Both games had issues that were corrected later (as is the norm for GaaS), but their launches were much better in terms of content and overall design and performance.

Anthem has a chance to grow into a good game like many GaaS titles, but previous releases launched in better states, and people don't think that's acceptable.

 

[aevanhoe]

😂 What am I reading?


Jesus, Anthem bombing really broke some of you.

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Not really, just being rational there, imo. Not a popular thing to be when riding on Era's hate train.

 

[Deleted member 5596]

The Division: lack of experience, which is understandable, they had only vanilla Destiny to learn from which wasn't good, The Taken King wasn't even out until less than half a year of its launch.
Destiny 2: Bungie misjudged feedback and went to chase a casual market which completely falters, they then returned to their hardcore grind roots with Forsaken and got great access.

Anthem could learn from both during its lengthy development cycle. They didn't. You are acting like service games have a right to be bad at launch which it DOES NOT HAVE.

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But for now, all of them were bad at launch?

Maybe that's a reason for that...idk.

 

[SmartWaffles]

And yet the next DLC, albeit small, fir D2 was very bad again.

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Black Armory was far from "bad". It added meaningful and fun content, the execution (time gating) wasn't ideal at all but what it brought to the game was in fact, well received, like the ability to chase specific weapon slot rolls and farming for armor sets.

But for now, all of them were bad at launch?

Maybe that's a reason for that...idk.

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Bottom line: Anthem should not repeat those mistakes, it did, and it did so much worse than those pioneers of the genre.

 

[SneakersSO]

How do you explain then Taken King with Vanilla 2? Or The Division rocky launch too? Maybe it's inherent to the effort required to make a service based game like this which focuses on a base that can be improved throught time?

Is clear that Anthem was in dev hell, many other games where, but most of these games are released which an incredibly basic vanilla campaign design for a reason.

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You're not wrong in that Bungie fucked up when going to bat for D2 vanilla after pulling off Taken King & even Rise of Iron, and thats on Bungie, but guess what - they fixed it and set the new gold standard of the genre in doing so. D2 launch was acknowledged by Bioware devs when speaking to Jason Schreier of Kotaku anonymously, so they knew what the market was expecting and still failed to deliver it.

D2 Vanilla launch month has given devs ample time to course correct from making the same mistakes- Bungie did it, The Division 2 devs acknowledged it and have tailored their marketing towards assuring players they wouldn't be in the same position. Bioware is the only one who didn't, seemingly, cause they managed to repeat not only mistakes that go as far back as 2014, but to make a plethora of terrible design decisions that the genre's never seen before.

 

[Sande]

But for now, all of them were bad at launch?

Maybe that's a reason for that...idk.

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I wouldn't go down this road. I don' think this genre is somehow so much more demanding than any other that all games need to launch in an abysmal state.

 

[SmartWaffles]

Oh, do we forget there is another fantastic looter shooter that is on the market for even longer than Destiny, and has been consistently improving, called Warframe? Or the fact that Path of Exile and Diablo 3 exists?

 

[juventino13]

How many people were watching yesterday on twitch? I forgot to check.

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never went above 50k, topped out around 49 I think

 

[Bold One]

Not really, just being rational there, imo. Not a popular thing to be when riding on Era's hate train.

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Not on a hate train, it's the what about isms that's starting to grate. Stop using destiny to deflect.

 

[Deleted member 5596]

The division scored 79-80 on launch via metacritic.

Destiny 2 was also well recieved at launc.

Both games had issues that were corrected later (as is the norm for GaaS), but their launches were much better in terms of content and overall design and performance.

Anthem has a chance to grow into a good game like many GaaS titles, but previous releases launched in better states, and people don't think that's acceptable.

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I think what happened is that critics are less tolerant to faulty launches for these loot shooters. But, personally speaking, Destiny 2 vanilla campaign is as bad as Anthem if not worse. Less buggy for sure, maybe, but the things people complain about it's mission design on Anthem, is basically the entire Destiny 2 vanilla campaign. I played it a few months ago after it was given for free and surprised at how bad it was.

For me Anthem campaign is more fun, althought that's not saying much.

I'm just surprised at the amount of vitriol the game receives when it's not really much worse than other loot shooters releases.

I wouldn't go down this road. I don' think this genre is somehow so much more demanding than any other that all games need to launch in an abysmal state.

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I feel is demanding enough that Activision had several studios lined for the Destiny franchise to a point they basically decided is not worth that amount of resources.

 

[SmartWaffles]

I think what happened is that critics are less tolerant to faulty launches for these loot shooters. But, personally speaking, Destiny 2 vanilla campaign is as bad as Anthem if not worse. Less buggy for sure, maybe, but the things people complain about it's mission design on Anthem, is basically the entire Destiny 2 vanilla campaign. I played it a few months ago after it was given for free and surprised at how bad it was.

For me Anthem campaign is more fun, althought that's not saying much.

I'm just surprised at the amount of vitriol the game receives when it's not really much worse than other loot shooters releases.

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It is worse than what it is competing with. The market and the reviewers will not and in fact, should not compare Anthem to those well documented failure cases. Aim higher, that's how we get great games today.

 

[SneakersSO]

I think what happened is that critics are less tolerant to faulty launches for these loot shooters. But, personally speaking, Destiny 2 vanilla campaign is as bad as Anthem if not worse. Less buggy for sure, maybe, but the things people complain about it's mission design on Anthem, is basically the entire Destiny 2 vanilla campaign. I played it a few months ago after it was given for free and surprised at how bad it was.

For me Anthem campaign is more fun, althought that's not saying much.

I'm just surprised at the amount of vitriol the game receives when it's not really much worse than other loot shooters releases.

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Not much worse than other looter shooters? Thats purely subjective, but you're nuts if you think any of this is acceptable. IMO, the loot system in Anthem is fundamentally broken. Thats probably one of the biggest problems with Anthem - we have to discuss how much of a technical mess it is that we can't even begin to discuss how bad the loot or any other gameplay system is yet.

And handwaving away the technical grounds D2's Vanilla campaign stood on, versus the absolute technical mess that Anthem's is, just shows you're not arguing in good faith.

Maybe I forgot the part where D2's campaign legit stops and puts a grind in place in order to pad out the play time. Or an issue where getting matchmade into a Strike would put me in the last mission of the campaign when i'm level 3 (yes, this is a thing that was happening in Anthem until they disabled Stronghold quickplay)

 

[Mud]

More like bad management gonna badly manage. Asking studios to do too much with too little time or too few resources, then acting shock then their inability to plan ahead properly or manage projects manifests in bad games. EA is the worst at this, by far.

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Yeah, but that's business. Lol. Too much with too little time? Sounds normal too me. Never had a job that wasn't like that.

 

[Lyng]

Black Armory was far from "bad". It added meaningful and fun content, the execution (time gating) wasn't ideal at all but what it brought to the game was in fact, well received, like the ability to chase specific weapon slot rolls and farming for armor sets.

Bottom line: Anthem should not repeat those mistakes, it did, and it did so much worse than those pioneers of the genre.

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The time gating was bad and there was nothing to do for non raiders other than a insane grind. (That got helped by increased drops) which also makes it so weird that BioWare went with that Tomb quest. They should have known from both Destiny and even WoW that time gating/progress hating behind tedious repetitive tasks is bad design.

 

[SENPAIatLARGE]

You know, Borderlands 2 launched feature complete and chock full of content back in 2012. Its stunning that no one else can launch a lootet shooter that works anymore.

 

[aevanhoe]

And yet the next DLC, albeit small, fir D2 was very bad again.
BioWare are absolutely not excused. It's baffling how they have learned nothing from their competitors.
My original point was that I doubt it will ever become truly great, just like D2 that only has Forsaken going for it. And that was for a big part made in cooperation with Vicarious Visions on whom Bungie cannot fall back anymore.
The genre is pretty ripe for the taking to be honest.

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Agree with this.

 

[Lyng]

You know, Borderlands 2 launched feature complete and chock full of content back in 2012. Its stunning that no one else can launch a lootet shooter that works anymore.

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Spot on

 

[astro]

I think what happened is that critics are less tolerant to faulty launches for these loot shooters. But, personally speaking, Destiny 2 vanilla campaign is as bad as Anthem if not worse. Less buggy for sure, maybe, but the things people complain about it's mission design on Anthem, is basically the entire Destiny 2 vanilla campaign. I played it a few months ago after it was given for free and surprised at how bad it was.

For me Anthem campaign is more fun, althought that's not saying much.

I'm just surprised at the amount of vitriol the game receives when it's not really much worse than other loot shooters releases.

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People's tolerance is dropping for games launching at a high price point with promises to be fixed over time. Which is fully understandable.

Anthem's price includes all future story DLC (which will be free), and Destiny's was all paid. So Anthem already has a big positive in favour, BUT that's a future promise.

Right now the game doesn't have as much content as previous GaaS releases. It's buggier, and has more loading screens permeating the experience. And it comes from a studio with pedigrees that people feel have failed.

I quite enjoy playing Anthem despite ll the flaws, but it's easy to see why Anthem is obtaining the ire it is.

You know, Borderlands 2 launched feature complete and chock full of content back in 2012. Its stunning that no one else can launch a lootet shooter that works anymore.

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That wasn't the same level of GaaS though, even if the loot aspects were done better. It was a co-op game, not a shared world shooter.

 

[Deleted member 5596]

The time gating was bad and there was nothing to do for non raiders other than a insane grind. (That got helped by increased drops) which also makes it so weird that BioWare went with that Tomb quest. They should have known from both Destiny and even WoW that time gating/progress hating behind tedious repetitive tasks is bad design.

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Welcome to MMO(-lite) and the difficulties of creating periodical content for an unsatiable army of people so you can keep them engaged enough time for the next batch of content.

 

[Airbar]

That wasn't the same level of GaaS though, even if the loot aspects were done better. It was a co-op game, not a shared world shooter.

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Are these games a "shared" world though? I don't know about the Division but not a single of these games I know is actually a shared world. It's mostly fancy window dressing for the old BNet lobbies in D2. The only one that comes close to actually feeling shared with other players is Destiny but even that is extremely limited.

 

[astro]

Are these games a "shared" world though? I don't know about the Division but not a single of these games I know is actually a shared world. It's mostly fancy window dressing for the old BNet lobbies in D2. The only one that comes close to actually feeling shared with other players is Destiny but even that is extremely limited.

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If I remember correctly Borderlands had drop-in drop out co-op, and that was it in terms of social function? And it didn't have any mmo style aspects like resource gathering for crafting, etc... right?

Shared world shooters are like mmo-lites, the hubs and social options like guilds set them apart from games like BL.

 

[Lyng]

Welcome to MMO(-lite) and the difficulties of creating periodical content for an unsatiable army of people so you can keep them engaged enough time for the next batch of content.

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You can never keep everyone happy. And even the best in the business FFXIV, if we count MMO's aswell, had to relaunch the game to get it right.

 

[Lyng]

If I remember correctly Borderlands had drop-in drop out co-op, and that was it in terms of social function? And it didn't have any mmo style aspects like resource gathering for crafting, etc... right?

Shared world shooters are like mmo-lites, the hubs and social options like guilds set them apart from games like BL.

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To be fair borderlands coop was with 3 other people, that's the same amount you will see in Anthem

 

[astro]

You can never keep everyone happy. And even the best in the business FFXIV, if we count MMO's aswell, had to relaunch the game to get it right.

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This is very true... but that was a complete game re-design from the ground up.

Saying that. almost ALL of these games have their mid-point The Taken King style release that fixes fundamental issues with the systems and content....

BUT the launch state needs to be up to a certain level, and Anthem doesn't cut it in too many ways.

To be fair borderlands coop was with 3 other people, that's the same amount you will see in Anthem

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And that was the extent of it's social functionality. It was just a loot shooter with co-op, not a shared world shooter (which is basically an mmo-lite).

 

[Gatti-man]

Oh, do we forget there is another fantastic looter shooter that is on the market for even longer than Destiny, and has been consistently improving, called Warframe? Or the fact that Path of Exile and Diablo 3 exists?

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Diablo 3 was shit at launch (it's still not amazing right now either) and warframes gameplay/fit and finish was trash at the beginning. Last I played in mid 2018 it still didn't have good feel and still felt floaty. It's a great f2p game but would bomb as a retail product jmho.

 

[Deleted member 5596]

Oh, do we forget there is another fantastic looter shooter that is on the market for even longer than Destiny, and has been consistently improving, called Warframe? Or the fact that Path of Exile and Diablo 3 exists?

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I played Warframe years ago, when it was released on PC... And well, it wasn't very good either.

Is basically a different game by now.

 

[astro]

Warframe was actually really good at the very start (closed beta), but it was very proof of concept and lacking in content. It's issues began when it constantly overhauled its systems and started making things needlessly convoluted.

When it launched it was in a pretty bad state overall, despite having a lot going for it, and since them its grown tremendously (even if you need to use the wiki as a manual...).

But yeh, most of the better GaaS service games you can think of now either had a poor launch like Anthem, or a previous iteration that they learnt from.

 

[RexNovis]

Hey, this put a smile on my face! Thanks so much. It's all the sweeter considering we disagree on opinions regarding past BioWare games. Thank you for this lovely piece of feedback. I've been super sick so I think reading this was the highlight of the last few days. :)

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Sorry to hear you've not been feeling well. It's a shame that the game didn't turn into something you could really take advantage of during your recovery time. Hope you feel better soon!

 

[juventino13]

I fell off Divison after the underground expansion but didn't they add a literal survival mode? Talk about following tragic trends...

Sure battle royale will make its way to the sequel.

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That survival mode was the best part of the entire game

 

[thisismadness]

Welcome to MMO(-lite) and the difficulties of creating periodical content for an unsatiable army of people so you can keep them engaged enough time for the next batch of content.

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Those types of "in face your face" grinds are the worst way to solve that problem. If you need to pad then it should be spread out and in less noticeable ways. I havent reached the end yet, but the impression I'm getting is that Anthem's launch content is slim even compared to others in the genre.

 

[astro]

I want to see some actual open world PvP in one of these games, not a BR but that amount of players all out in the same instance questing and fighting (or forming alliances) when they meet.

The BR genre is going to spawn some interesting PvP modes I think once devs start messing with the format.

 

[Deleted member 29249]

That survival mode was the best part of the entire game

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For a looter shooter that's a good thing?

 

[astro]

Those types of "in face your face" grinds are the worst way to solve that problem. If you need to pad then it should be spread out and in less noticeable ways. I havent reached the end yet, but the impression I'm getting is that Anthem's launch content is slim even compared to others in the genre.

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It is.

But it has difficulty modes for all the content which I see something players constantly ask for in games like these.

It also includes ALL future story DLC for free.

It also seems to have more of an episodic release design than most games of this type.

That doesn't excuse the initial launch state lacking though, but it might ease your concerns if you paid the full price for the game and you're enjoying it despite its flaws.