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astro

Member
Oct 25, 2017
56,982
Hmmmm, how about you don't play thread police and just report posts you consider "worthless drive-bys" than constantly derailing this thread with your meta-commentary on what makes 'valuable' feedback and what doesn't.

If someone's opinion about the game boils down to "it's shit" that's not a driveby, it's a statement that can be elaborated on. You don't need to "moderate" this thread.

It literlaly is a drive-by. I have no issuse with those usually though, but I do have issue with them when a player asks a question and that's all they get in response. They 100% should be ignored, there are plenty of great breakdowns on why this game is bad.

It is not "moderating the thread" to tell a person asking "should I play?" to ignore drive bys, lol.
 

badnewsbeers

Member
Dec 10, 2017
430
Ontario, Canada
According to posters here who have worked for EA (verified) in the past, Frostbite is pretty good in terms of tools and shared assets thanks to all the internal teams. Sounds like almost purely a Bioware issue if that is the case. That isn't to say, however, that Frostbite itself might not be partially to blame. Issues like loading screens specifically. It's just hard to say right now. But the core and fundamental design issues from the gameplay loops all the way down to the menu design make me think the problem was Bioware.


I can't think of a single console game -- certainly not a looter game -- that asks console players to wait longer than 20-25 seconds to load up a map or level. That's probably the highest end of the loading threshold. Anthem is trying to break new ground here in the wrong direction.

The Digital Foundry analysis is going to be brutal.

Hmm. Just based on the Amy Hennig quote from the other day, it sounded like Frostbite was great at one thing, and if you didn't fit that mould a lot of ground work was required. That work is probably largely completed now and will help moving forward, but that could be part of cause here.
 

astro

Member
Oct 25, 2017
56,982
Activision cited destiny under performing as a reason for why they moved on for the franchise so...probably not really.

Publisher expectation is inflated in gaming, we all know this.

The game did well enough for Bungie to be able to bracneh off by themselves. It definitely wasn't a failure, and D2 is doing fine even if Activision felt it didn't earn them enough money.
 

Deleted member 46948

Account closed at user request
Banned
Aug 22, 2018
8,852
It literlaly is a drive-by. I have no issuse with those usually though, but I do have issue with them when a player asks a question and that's all they get in response. They 100% should be ignored, there are plenty of great breakdowns on why this game is bad.

I wish you stopped painting that post as if I haven't already said at great length why I think the game is bad, repeatedly.
What you call "drive-by posting" is simply the reflection of the fact I wouldn't genuinely recommend buying Anthem to anyone, whether they're "a gameplay guy" or not. It's just not worth the money, any money, at this time.
 

Jom

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,490
all the "loading " talk sure takes me back to 2015 and bloodborne lol, anyone remember it's loading times every time you died

X.X
At least loading when you die kinda makes sense. Anthem seems to load all the time and often for no reason. Like loading just to tell you that the connection was lost.
 

jviggy43

Banned
Oct 28, 2017
18,184
Publisher expectation is inflated in gaming, we all know this.

The game did well enough for Bungie to be able to bracneh off by themselves. It definitely wasn't a failure, and D2 is doing fine even if Activision felt it didn't earn them enough money.
How do you know it's doing fine without numbers?
 

astro

Member
Oct 25, 2017
56,982
User banned (1 day): derailing and backseat moderation over a series of posts
I wish you stopped painting that post as if I haven't already said at great length why I think the game is bad, repeatedly.
What you call "drive-by posting" is simply the reflection of the fact I wouldn't genuinely recommend buying Anthem to anyone, whether they're "a gameplay guy" or not. It's just not worth the money, any money, at this time.

Mate, come on, a user asked us if they should play and you dropped that comment. It should be ignored, absolutely.

If you have a more articulated response you've already why not link to that instead? That would have actually been helpful.

Drive by "don't play" "do play" posts are useless to people looking for proper feedback, and me advising a user to ignore posts like that is good advice. The fact this has blown up into a dog pile is ridiculous.

How do you know it's doing fine without numbers?

IU was respinding to the idea that them parting ways with Activision = the game is doing poorly.
 

Fliesen

Member
Oct 25, 2017
10,254
It literlaly is a drive-by. I have no issuse with those usually though, but I do have issue with them when a player asks a question and that's all they get in response. They 100% should be ignored, there are plenty of great breakdowns on why this game is bad.

It is not "policing the thread" to tell a person asking "should I play?" to ignore drive bys, lol.
Report the (supposed) drive by. Claven has been very active in this thread - and doing so has stayed much more on topic, instead of constantly shifting the thread to an ever-repeating meta-conversation on whose opinion is valid and whose isn't.
Like half of your posts are just in response to other posters. And sure, you constantly sprinkle in a little bit of "i have my fair share of issues with the game..." just to make it look less like you've got a weird horse in this race.

I'm not saying you're astroturfing, but you're weirdly eager to control the conversation about this game. Maybe because you really really like it, and you want it to do well and have long ongoing support.
But it's just obnoxious. I'm sorry. :/

Drive by "don't play" "do play" posts are useless to people looking for proper feedback, and me advising a user to ignore posts like that is good advice. The fact this has blown up into a dog pile is ridiculous.

Report posts that you consider drive-by posts and do not tell people to 'ignore' the statements of fellow boardmembers.
 

Thrill_house

Member
Oct 27, 2017
10,627
It feels like a lot of multiplayer-focused games lately have problems with content. They have a gameplay loop of a few hours, and everything kind of feels the same. This is true of GaaS shooters, Sea of Thieves, even battle royale games (though battle royale games get away with only having one or two maps because of the kind of games they are). AAA single-player-focused games like God of War, Red Read Redemption 2, hell, even ME: Andromeda feel like they have plenty of varied content. Something about trying to design these multiplayer games causes so many resources to go towards trying to get the multiplayer right that the actual content ends up feeling sparse and samey. Especially with the GaaS games, where the publishers need World of Warcraft-level engagement but can't or won't put out WoW-level amounts of content.

Yes exactly. If you want constant content updates and a steady player base it feels like you need to build a permanent team just for this game alone. It seems like they leave a skeleton crew on updates while the main squad moves on to sequels or an expansion which causes this to happen. I feel anthem and a lot of these GAAS shooters would fare better as a tighter coop 4 player experience and ditch the shared world/mmo lite bullshit unless they have a dedicated team that isn't going anywhere
 

astro

Member
Oct 25, 2017
56,982
Report the (supposed) drive by. Claven has been very active in this thread - and doing so has stayed much more on topic, instead of constantly shifting the thread to an ever-repeating meta-conversation on whose opinion is valid and whose isn't.
Like half of your posts are just in response to other posters. And sure, you constantly sprinkle in a little bit of "i have my fair share of issues with the game..." just to make it look less like you've got a weird horse in this race.

I'm not saying you're astroturfing, but you're weirdly eager to control the conversation about this game. Maybe because you really really like it, and you want it to do well and have long ongoing support.
But it's just obnoxious. I'm sorry. :/

I don't want to report the drive-by... I don't want to police the thread.

I gave advice to that user to ignore drive-by style posts and then gave my personal opinion.

That's it.

This dog pile is ridiculous.
 

Wulfram

Member
Mar 3, 2018
1,478
Did the patch reset peoples graphics settings or something? My performance was terrible and then when I checked I was on Ultra for a lot of things which I definitely shouldn't be.
 

Tahnit

Member
Oct 25, 2017
9,965
It's confusing how Destiny 2 at launch (less than a year and a half ago) got a pass with an 85 metacritic when it somehow launched missing all the good improvements the original Destiny got through add-ons, yet this game is being torn apart. I guess I'd just like to see a little consistency from reviewers. Without consistency the reviews start to become meaningless to me.

Because Destiny's 30 second gameplay loop is incredible. Shooting is addicting and the decisions you have to make during combat keep it engaging. Enemies have personality and behaviors.

Anthems shooting is boring. Enemies just stand there or rush you.
 

jviggy43

Banned
Oct 28, 2017
18,184
Mate, come on, a user asked us if they should play and you dropped that comment. It should be ignored, absolutely.

If you have a more articulated response you've already why not link to that instead? That would have actually been helpful.

Drive by "don't play" "do play" posts are useless to people looking for proper feedback, and me advising a user to ignore posts like that is good advice. The fact this has blown up into a dog pile is ridiculous.



IU was respinding to the idea that them parting ways with Activision = the game is doing poorly.
Ok but without numbers all we have is activision saying it was underperforming. Yes publisher expectations are getting higher but for a game with that budget and that amount of resources I'm not sure activision wasnt in their right to expect high numbers (and that's not even accounting for the fact that the destiny brand has probably lowered those expectations considerably after d1 and the launch of d2).
 

TheRuralJuror

Member
Oct 25, 2017
6,504
I mean, it didn't have to be true. Diablo 3 was okay for a thousand hours with the content already in the game because it was entertaining enough. It didn't need PvP and has never had it (not really). If Anthem's PvE experience was dense enough and interesting enough on a moment to moment basis, they'd be fine without PvP too. I think the bullet sponginess of everything and the need to have other players with you is hurting it.

Don't really feel like it's wholly the same playerbase. I couldn't play Diablo after 2, but destiny was right up my alley. I wouldn't have stuck around if I didn't have pvp personally and I feel that it was a big reason why many stayed around during long down times. Trials, the iron banner, etc was awesome. In any case, I'm sure it doesn't apply to every single destiny player, but that pvp not only kept me playing, but it kept me matchmaking for strikes and joining raid for chances of gear or exotic to use in pvp, which in turn provided a steady stream of players for pve content as well.

So many players don't get why PVP is important for these games. You nailed it.

As soon as I heard there was no pvp, I lost a bit of interest in Anthem personally. I had hoped the BioWare elements would make up for it, but it doesn't sound like they went that way either, so my hopes aren't high personally.
 

astro

Member
Oct 25, 2017
56,982
Ok but without numbers all we have is activision saying it was underperforming. Yes publisher expectations are getting higher but for a game with that budget and that amount of resources I'm not sure activision wasnt in their right to expect high numbers (and that's not even accounting for the fact that the destiny brand has probably lowered those expectations considerably after d1 and the launch of d2).

And as we know publisher expectation is often ridiculously inflated, that's not enough to say the game has done poorly, which was my point.

Time will tell, I guess.

Activision also had the best financial year in its history and said it still wasn't good enough and fired 800 people so......

Exactly.
 

Dog of Bork

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,993
Texas
I don't want to report the drive-by... I don't want to police the thread.

I gave advice to that user to ignore drive-by style posts and then gave my personal opinion.

That's it.

This dog pile is ridiculous.
Maybe you're getting dogpiled because your posts are trash. Telling people to ignore others and instead listen to you is the worst tier of shitposting I've seen. Painting a poster who has been extremely active in the thread with posts more content rich than the game we're discussing as a drive by shitposter is just asinine. You're getting the feedback you deserve.
 

Dphex

Member
Oct 27, 2017
12,811
Cologne, Germany
/needs a second to count...

Oh a 6.5, it's starting to be the score to use for the game. Lots others are around that score (from 6 to 7).

which shows the warped review scale nowadays...10-15 years ago this game would have been getting 45-50%, nowadays even a technically highly flawed game with questionable design decisions gets 6,5 or 7s, it boggles the mind how anyone could give this game a 6 or 7. but that is not exclusive to Anthem, there are many games much badder than their review scores suggest...back in the days 65-70% was a GOOD game with a few flaws...
 

Ralemont

Member
Jan 3, 2018
4,508
I'm not saying you're astroturfing, but you're weirdly eager to control the conversation about this game. Maybe because you really really like it, and you want it to do well and have long ongoing support.
But it's just obnoxious. I'm sorry. :/

There are many people weirdly eager to control the conversation about this game, and it's been this way for awhile. Both for supporters and detractors.

It's more noticeable with some people because of the volume of their posts, but let's not pretend only one poster has an agenda in this thread.
 

jviggy43

Banned
Oct 28, 2017
18,184
Activision also had the best financial year in its history and said it still wasn't good enough and fired 800 people so......
It's not hard to see the distinction of how this is shitty and why a game they pumped 500 million into which has never scored more than an 85 metacritic, most releases much lower than that, was likely not returning enough to be a worthwhile investment.
 

astro

Member
Oct 25, 2017
56,982
Maybe you're getting dogpiled because your posts are trash. Telling people to ignore others and instead listen to you is the worst tier of shitposting I've seen. Painting a poster who has been extremely active in the thread with posts more content rich than the game we're discussing as a drive by shitposter is just asinine. You're getting the feedback you deserve.
I painted that one post as a drive by that was unhelpful, as it was.

Your continued hostility is completely unwarranted.
 

Mass Effect

One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 31, 2017
16,803
Between my beta experiences and these reviews, this is exactly why I'm not getting this game at launch.

Guess we'll see how it is in 6 months — well, assuming EA doesn't drop it like they did Andromeda.
 

Deleted member 5864

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
2,725
I see this astro lad getting in a "it's everyone but me" scuffle again with a fresh set of posters.

Yeah, it's definitely everyone but him.
 

Dog of Bork

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,993
Texas
I painted that one post as a drive by that was unhelpful, as it was.

Your continued hostility is completely unwarranted.
Hostility, please. I'm being downright civil. I haven't told anyone to ignore you.

You straight up painted that post with the following, which is an indictment of the poster more than that single post.
Plenty of people like this game a lot despite its flaws, so don't just listen to the doom sayers. These kinds of people were the ones doing the exact same thing when Destiny dropped, and those of us who enjoyed that game did so despite all the constant negativity.
You can't walk that back. The responses you're getting from multiple people are exactly what I'd expect if I implied everyone that dislikes the game is just there to bag on it because they don't want people to enjoy a game.
 

Garlador

Banned
Oct 30, 2017
14,131
... I feel like I owe the Mass Effect Andromeda team an apology. I know all reviews aren't in yet, but it's surreal to compare the Metacritic and Opencritic reception of Andromeda to Anthem now and to think back on Andromeda's reception.

"Oh, this was dumped on Bioware's unproven B-team. THAT'S why it has problems."

Hindsight is astounding at times.
 

astro

Member
Oct 25, 2017
56,982
Hostility, please. I'm being downright civil. I haven't told anyone to ignore you.

You straight up painted that post with the following, which is an indictment of the poster more than that single post.

You can't walk that back. The responses you're getting from multiple people are exactly what I'd expect if I implied everyone that dislikes the game is just there to bag on it because they don't want people to enjoy a game.
You told me to piss off and that my comments were trash.

"civil"

This game is bad, it has many, many flaws. But some of us enjoy it (for now) despite those flaws.

Telling a user to ignore unhelpful single line "don't do it" style posts does not warrant this level of hostility, it certainly doesn't warrant to rudeness I've experienced from you.
 

carlsojo

Member
Oct 28, 2017
33,875
San Francisco
I see this astro lad getting in a "it's everyone but me" scuffle again with a fresh set of posters.

Yeah, it's definitely everyone but him.

Just ignore him. He's already said that the game isn't worth 60$, so I don't even know what he's still here to argue about.

After reading reviews and everything that's wrong with the game I don't even know if a Taken King expansion will save this mess. It needs a reboot from the ground up. Keep the flying (but lose the overheat mechanic). Reboot everything else. Everything. Else.
 

Servbot24

The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
43,155
I painted that one post as a drive by that was unhelpful, as it was.

Your continued hostility is completely unwarranted.
I've been seeing these posted directed at you ever since the thread first started. At a certain point you have to reflect on whether everyone other than yourself saying your posts are bad is an indicator of something.
 

aesync

Member
Jan 19, 2018
560
Chicago
Because Destiny's 30 second gameplay loop is incredible. Shooting is addicting and the decisions you have to make during combat keep it engaging. Enemies have personality and behaviors.

Anthems shooting is boring. Enemies just stand there or rush you.
Not to mention the gungame/collect-a-thon of destiny is incredible. different archetypes of each weapon class have weighty feels and tangible differences, and min/maxing the PvE/PvP endgame is a ton of fun. Most of my 700+ hours in D1 and 300+ D2 hours were just building that perfect loadout, and feeling tangible difference in the raid or in trials/cruci. I'm pretty burnt out on Destiny and loot shooters in general for now but it sounds like anthem isn't replicating that super addicting weapon grind.
 

Phabh

Member
Oct 28, 2017
3,702
This whole thing is starting to remind me of the MMO market circa late-2000's/early-2010's when everyone was trying to take a piece of the WoW pie. Developers forgot that people only have a finite amount of time and money and players can't flock to every new game that comes out that demands all (or most) of either time or money (or both).

All these GaaS games want players to spend all of their time behind them, just like MMOs did. They want people to become invested and spent as much money on microtransactions and extra content, similar to MMOs with expansion packs. Eventually, like MMOs, the whole house of cards is going to crumble and leave only one or two major contenders and a handful of stragglers hanging on for dear life by their fingernails.

Agree, I don't know when it'll happen but it'll happen. Only the free-to-play ones will survive. The whole genre will soon be expected to be free to start.
 

Landford

Attempted to circumvent ban with alt account
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
4,678
Most amazing thing is people watching the SkillUp review and now saying "30 second loop" like they always knew about it, lol.

This game has neither the critics nor the consumers support. I would say "The quality of their live support next month is going to seal its fate" but I already think its doomed. With Mtx tied to very, very poorly made skins and emotes and no horizon for paid expansions like Destiny (Which is awesome from a consumer standpoint) EA is going to drop this game and cut the cost really fucking fast.
 
Oct 30, 2017
2,206
How long does a game in this situation usually take to go on sale? Sometimes it seems only a matter of weeks, but I've never payed to much attention. Been debating on holding off instead of picking up the game tomorrow.
 

Deleted member 5864

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
2,725
That's his usual schtick. Probably best to move on though.
Yeah, you are right...
...

I keep seeing all these newfound respect for Andromeda posts, and while I still wouldn't recommend it (just like I wouldn't recommend Dragon Age 2 even with the benefit of hindsight aka the news around its development ), the bombcast dudes really kept bringing up points that were as poignant as they were hurtful: this is a different Bioware, it has been for a long time. Andromeda at least was trying (and failing spectacularly) to recapture that Bioware of old. They only got as far as a poor facsimile of what made Mass Effect, but it was their intention. Anthem doesn't seem like the vision and "the game we always wanted to make" or the "Bob Dylan of videogames" that it once was under that leadership.

People bring up The Witcher and CDPR essentially leapfrogging modern Bioware's efforts. While many would be eager to point out that CDPR benefit from being a country with lower salaries, Sony 1st party studio levels of crunch and being backed by a storefront, this is now 2 times in a row that 2 different Bioware teams were given AAA support, and 5+ years of development time to come out with something and fumbling out of the finish line. At this point, it signals at a different set of core problems that I think go beyond an engine, key people leaving or the publisher itself. It's probably a combination of everything and more.
 

Servbot24

The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
43,155
How long does a game in this situation usually take to go on sale? Sometimes it seems only a matter of weeks, but I've never payed to much attention. Been debating on holding off instead of picking up the game tomorrow.
Depends, but I'd say after a month or two could be expected. Maybe even less than a month if it's really bad.
 

Deleted member 1594

Account closed at user request
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
5,762
Most amazing thing is people watching the SkillUp review and now saying "30 second loop" like they always knew about it, lol.

Because Destiny's 30 second gameplay loop is incredible.
;)

30 seconds isn't enough time for me to call anything a "gameplay loop." Sometimes it takes 30 seconds to kill a single enemy. But I guess 30 seconds refers more to what you're doing in fights. Between shooting, using abilities, picking up loot, and moving on. I dunno. Still doesn't seem like enough time.
 

Tahnit

Member
Oct 25, 2017
9,965
Not to mention the gungame/collect-a-thon of destiny is incredible. different archetypes of each weapon class have weighty feels and tangible differences, and min/maxing the PvE/PvP endgame is a ton of fun. Most of my 700+ hours in D1 and 300+ D2 hours were just building that perfect loadout, and feeling tangible difference in the raid or in trials/cruci. I'm pretty burnt out on Destiny and loot shooters in general for now but it sounds like anthem isn't replicating that super addicting weapon grind.

Exactly. I can't wait for season of the drifter to start and the curse story to keep going.
 
Oct 30, 2017
2,206
I think BF V had a "price drop" 2 weeks from release
Depends, but I'd say after a month or two could be expected. Maybe even less than a month if it's really bad.

Thanks.

Yeah I think it's entirely plausible that it could drop price after a couple of weeks.

Yeah I would hate to invest day 1 to see a price drop right away. But then that's the risk here since its pretty clear what the situation around this game is.
 

Shoeless

Member
Oct 27, 2017
7,000
I do wonder if this is going to affect the viability of keeping the main BioWare studio in Edmonton. I can imagine that for a lot of employees, and even the people at EA, respecting the original founder's wish of having a big studio in a city that otherwise doesn't have the game dev culture and infrastructure, doesn't have a lot of appeal. Realistically, if they had to keep a BioWare studio in Canada, they'd probably be better off relocating to Montreal, or Toronto.