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woolyninja

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,028
It's confusing how Destiny 2 at launch (less than a year and a half ago) got a pass with an 85 metacritic when it somehow launched missing all the good improvements the original Destiny got through add-ons, yet this game is being torn apart. I guess I'd just like to see a little consistency from reviewers. Without consistency the reviews start to become meaningless to me.
 

Absoludacrous

One Winged Slayer
The Fallen
Oct 26, 2017
3,182
It's confusing how Destiny 2 at launch (less than a year and a half ago) got a pass with an 85 metacritic when it somehow launched missing all the good improvements the original Destiny got through add-ons, yet this game is being torn apart. I guess I'd just like to see a little consistency from reviewers. Without consistency the reviews start to become meaningless to me.

Because you can't map Destiny 2's problems to Anthem like it's 1:1. It's kind of insane that you're trying to.
 

Patitoloco

Member
Oct 27, 2017
23,614
It's confusing how Destiny 2 at launch (less than a year and a half ago) got a pass with an 85 metacritic when it somehow launched missing all the good improvements the original Destiny got through add-ons, yet this game is being torn apart. I guess I'd just like to see a little consistency from reviewers. Without consistency the reviews start to become meaningless to me.
While I don't agree with Destiny 2 reception, because of the reasons you posted, Anthem is a way worse state than Destiny 1 when it launched.
 

IvorB

Member
Oct 28, 2017
2,995
Ironically, Warframe had a lot in common with Mass Effect 3 multiplayer when it launched.

I only played that very briefly.

12 hours still is awful. Killing a boss and seeing an amazing gun drop from it and equipping it has a great feeling...

Getting a recipe that then says: "wait 12 hours or pay" is not great and takes all the excitement away.

Delayed gratification is also good gratification. Did your parents give you your Christmas presents as soon as they bought them. :)

The crafting and wait is part of the anticipation.
 

Ravio-li

Member
Dec 24, 2018
948
I wonder how much people actually care for the MMO/shared universe/GAAS aspect of looter shooters, or if they just want an old school Diablo mixed with a shooter and optional coop. Something like Shadow Warrior 2 for example.
 

ShadowAUS

Member
Feb 20, 2019
2,106
Australia
It's confusing how Destiny 2 at launch (less than a year and a half ago) got a pass with an 85 metacritic when it somehow launched missing all the good improvements the original Destiny got through add-ons, yet this game is being torn apart. I guess I'd just like to see a little consistency from reviewers. Without consistency the reviews start to become meaningless to me.
I think in between D2 launch and now people have become a little more critical and a little more cynical in regards to the major publishers and their games. After Fallout 76 especially most people I know have been giving less free passes to major game studios and their publishers.
 

Thrill_house

Member
Oct 27, 2017
10,607
I'd say the genre it still very popular but all GaaS loot-shooters released so far - maybe except Warframe - failed to give enough content to bind players over a long time. As much as I loved playing Destiny with my friends, I never understood how you could play that for months or even years. I was a damn fine game to beat once and then some multiplayer - but playing it for longer than 50 - 100 hours?

Maybe a model like the Borderlands games is the better one. Just release full games with some DLCs and don't announce a "10 years plan" before even releasing the game.

Truth right here. That is the biggest issue with these types of games. The devs want that MMO player base but flat out fucking refuse to create enough content regularly to keep their players engaged. The problem is easy to identify and I don't understand why these cats can't get this through their skulls
 

Kalentan

Member
Oct 25, 2017
44,624
Delayed gratification is also good gratification. Did your parents give you your Christmas presents as soon as they bought them. :)

The crafting and wait is part of the anticipation.

I can only imagine if in Diablo and other looter games if they required you to wait hours to use any loot you got.

Warframe only gets a pass because it's free and has other fun systems. If any other game had that system it would be crucified.

Edit: Basically Warframe is good in spite of that system, not because of it.
 

Fairy Godmother

Backward compatible
Moderator
Oct 27, 2017
3,289
I'm now very curious how well this game does on release. Do mainstream audience even look up meta scores?
 

darkwing

Member
Oct 25, 2017
14,948
It's confusing how Destiny 2 at launch (less than a year and a half ago) got a pass with an 85 metacritic when it somehow launched missing all the good improvements the original Destiny got through add-ons, yet this game is being torn apart. I guess I'd just like to see a little consistency from reviewers. Without consistency the reviews start to become meaningless to me.

most of the reviews included the raid, it had a better mission storyline than the first one, also the sublime gun play
 

Deleted member 249

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
28,828
It's confusing how Destiny 2 at launch (less than a year and a half ago) got a pass with an 85 metacritic when it somehow launched missing all the good improvements the original Destiny got through add-ons, yet this game is being torn apart. I guess I'd just like to see a little consistency from reviewers. Without consistency the reviews start to become meaningless to me.
Because the problems Destiny got a pass on are more endemic to the genre and only things more dedicated vets of the genre will notice. Fundamentally it's a well made, well playing game that seemingly addresses a lot of complaints people had about the original, such as storytelling.

Anthem is being criticized for the core basics of a game that it gets wrong.
 

ShadowAUS

Member
Feb 20, 2019
2,106
Australia
I wonder how much people actually care for the MMO/shared universe/GAAS aspect of looter shooters, or if they just want an old school Diablo mixed with a shooter and optional coop. Something like Shadow Warrior 2 for example.
I can only speak for myself but the Social aspects of these looter shooters are much more important to me as someone who has been playing MMORPG's since I was like 9 years old. I would take a new MMORPG over this current crop of GaaS shooters but no one is making large MMORPG's anymore and I've played and burnt out on every major (and almost all non-major) MMORPG on the market today. So, Destiny, Division etc have become my new online social outlet. If the rest of the game is good as well, all the better.
 

JohnOfMars

Fighting Lion
Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,107
Mars
It's confusing how Destiny 2 at launch (less than a year and a half ago) got a pass with an 85 metacritic when it somehow launched missing all the good improvements the original Destiny got through add-ons, yet this game is being torn apart. I guess I'd just like to see a little consistency from reviewers. Without consistency the reviews start to become meaningless to me.

D2 was a massive improvement over D1 and while it wasn't a 1:1 mapping of features from D1, it had a ton more new features. It also had a full campaign over 4 worlds and wasn't, ya know, broken.
 
Oct 30, 2017
5,006
"It is possible to spend the entire mission jumping from loading screen to loading screen as the game attempts to get you where it thinks you need to be. Any dialogue, moments, or story revelations that occur during these loading screens are lost forever. "

Wow.

How did they manage to fuck up something as simple as "everyone gets to watch the cutscene."?
 

Dringus

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,929
It's confusing how Destiny 2 at launch (less than a year and a half ago) got a pass with an 85 metacritic when it somehow launched missing all the good improvements the original Destiny got through add-ons, yet this game is being torn apart. I guess I'd just like to see a little consistency from reviewers. Without consistency the reviews start to become meaningless to me.

Just because D2 was missing (a lot) of D1 improvements doesn't make these situations the same.
 

Kalentan

Member
Oct 25, 2017
44,624
Warframe's deal with the crafting wait time is due to it being a FTP game. It wouldn't have that if it was a retail game.

Eh. I'd say it's more of a relic from the days when the game had little content and they just never got rid of the system. It was to prevent players from going through the content too quickly.
 

TheRulingRing

Banned
Apr 6, 2018
5,713
Will have been posted a million times, but just listened to most of this. Pretty savage



Well, this is the "modern review" I've been waiting on from a guy I trust, and he still hates it.

Skill Up loves looter shooters so him slamming this game so hard is the real nail in the coffin for me.

What a shame - Anthem should have been one of the best games of the year for me. It could have been my Destiny replacement for a while, but unlike other looter shooters the gameplay isn't seeming good enough to carry the game.

I don't even think the standard "wait a year for fixes and the major expansion" is going to work here.
 

IvorB

Member
Oct 28, 2017
2,995
I can only imagine if in Diablo and other looter games if they required you to wait hours to use any loot you got.

Warframe only gets a pass because it's free and has other fun systems. If any other game had that system it would be crucified.

Edit: Basically Warframe is good in spite of that system, not because of it.

It is possible I've just been conditioned to find it agreeable ha ha. Doesn't bother me at all.
 

The_Land

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
2,390
Cleveland Ohio
It's confusing how Destiny 2 at launch (less than a year and a half ago) got a pass with an 85 metacritic when it somehow launched missing all the good improvements the original Destiny got through add-ons, yet this game is being torn apart. I guess I'd just like to see a little consistency from reviewers. Without consistency the reviews start to become meaningless to me.
Destiny games, actually Bungie games in general are always super polished at launch. Something that can't be said at all about Anthem
 

KushalaDaora

Member
Oct 27, 2017
7,838
It's confusing how Destiny 2 at launch (less than a year and a half ago) got a pass with an 85 metacritic when it somehow launched missing all the good improvements the original Destiny got through add-ons, yet this game is being torn apart. I guess I'd just like to see a little consistency from reviewers. Without consistency the reviews start to become meaningless to me.

Destiny 2 doesn't have technical issue and while it regressed on some areas, Destiny 2 also improves over D1 for several things (mainly QoL things like Public Event timer). One of Anthem criticism is lack of interesting mission design, while Destiny 2 actually improves upon Destiny 1 in term of mission design.

D2 problem mainly revolves around the lack of endgame content and Bungie seemingly cater to casual crowd.

Anthem can't even do basic things like respawn system right...:|
 

Spehornoob

Member
Nov 15, 2017
8,941
No game deserves to do badly. Never.

Specially when a studio of hundreds of employees is at risk.

Your comment is crazy close to "lazy devs".
I understand the empathy for the devs here, but do you really think that a bad product still deserves to sell well just by existing? I haven't played Anthem, so I can only go by the reviews, but if it's as bad as the reviews seem to suggest, is this the kind of game one would want to see rewarded with high sales?

I'm not trying to sound too much like a dick, and I feel for the devs, but a sub-par product is a sub-par product, and if it sells poorly due to that, those are the breaks.
 

Plotinus

Member
Oct 30, 2017
348
Truth right here. That is the biggest issue with these types of games. The devs want that MMO player base but flat out fucking refuse to create enough content regularly to keep their players engaged. The problem is easy to identify and I don't understand why these cats can't get this through their skulls

It feels like a lot of multiplayer-focused games lately have problems with content. They have a gameplay loop of a few hours, and everything kind of feels the same. This is true of GaaS shooters, Sea of Thieves, even battle royale games (though battle royale games get away with only having one or two maps because of the kind of games they are). AAA single-player-focused games like God of War, Red Read Redemption 2, hell, even ME: Andromeda feel like they have plenty of varied content. Something about trying to design these multiplayer games causes so many resources to go towards trying to get the multiplayer right that the actual content ends up feeling sparse and samey. Especially with the GaaS games, where the publishers need World of Warcraft-level engagement but can't or won't put out WoW-level amounts of content.
 

DevilMayGuy

Member
Oct 25, 2017
13,577
Texas
No game deserves to do badly. Never.

Specially when a studio of hundreds of employees is at risk.

Your comment is crazy close to "lazy devs".
Absolutely not. Bad games should sell poorly. This is a bad game. Why should we root for mediocre shit to sell well? Every bad product has good people who are just doing their jobs behind it. That doesn't mean they deserve your money just because they were doing their best.
 

Patitoloco

Member
Oct 27, 2017
23,614
I understand the empathy for the devs here, but do you really think that a bad product still deserves to sell well just by existing? I haven't played Anthem, so I can only go by the reviews, but if it's as bad as the reviews seem to suggest, is this the kind of game one would want to see rewarded with high sales?

I'm not trying to sound too much like a dick, and I feel for the devs, but a sub-par product is a sub-par product, and if it sells poorly due to that, those are the breaks.
Absolutely not. Bad games should sell poorly. This is a bad game. Why should we root for mediocre shit to sell well? Every bad product has good people who are just doing their jobs behind it. That doesn't mean they deserve your money just because they were doing their best.
I understand what you're saying, but it's not a matter of "deserving" or not. The game will do whatever it does, the audience will decide that, but hoping for bad results just to "punish the devs and the publishers" is pity and absurd. Anthem was not created by machines.

And I'm not saying "buy this to support the developers" (in fact, I wouldn't recommend this game to anyone, after finishing it), I'm saying that the stupidity of wanting to punish someone only feeds the circlejerk even more.
 

Chrome Hyena

Member
Oct 30, 2017
8,768
It's confusing how Destiny 2 at launch (less than a year and a half ago) got a pass with an 85 metacritic when it somehow launched missing all the good improvements the original Destiny got through add-ons, yet this game is being torn apart. I guess I'd just like to see a little consistency from reviewers. Without consistency the reviews start to become meaningless to me.
The game is not great. Hell not even good. But it is fun. Atm there is this snowball of hysteria about the game with people getting more and more hysterical and hyperbolic all feeding off eaxj other.

For instance eariler in this thread someone said they didnt like it but all their friends did so they would get it. And someone replied with "I dont understand, why do they still like it? "

To me that shows there is a lot of the usual " zany loud annoying youtube personality exaggeration" going on.

Hell someone said its the worst game they ever played. And was amazed I was having fun. Bottom line is the game is a 7 or so, so not great at all but folks will have fun with it.
 

Necromorph

Member
Oct 30, 2017
2,534
It's confusing how Destiny 2 at launch (less than a year and a half ago) got a pass with an 85 metacritic when it somehow launched missing all the good improvements the original Destiny got through add-ons, yet this game is being torn apart. I guess I'd just like to see a little consistency from reviewers. Without consistency the reviews start to become meaningless to me.

Because was pretty polished at launch, without the big technical problems and the dumpster on fire who is Anthem right now.

The main content of vanilla D2 was dissapoiting but playable and had a consistent idea where the thing go.
 

Deleted member 35598

User requested account closure
Banned
Dec 7, 2017
6,350
Spain
This sounds like the opposite of RDR2 : incredible gameplay, but boring game with terrible story.

As I'm a gameplay guy, msybe I should give it a chance.
 

Orangecoke

Member
Jan 14, 2019
1,812
I refuse to click out of principle that anyone using cleanprincegaming-style thumbnails has no clue what they're talking about.
That's pretty much describing all Youtubers, more and more these days. Click bait thumbnails get the clicks. I noticed even positive Anthem videos will use a negative sounding title/thumbnail to get the clicks.
 

DevilMayGuy

Member
Oct 25, 2017
13,577
Texas
I understand what you're saying, but it's not a matter of "deserving" or not. The game will do whatever it does, the audience will decide that, but hoping for bad results just to "punish the devs and the publishers" is pity and absurd.
You'll notice that nowhere in my post did I mention punishing anyone. Perhaps don't ascribe quotes in your text that were never stated.

I want bad products to fail so that we receive better products in the future. If mediocrity is met with great success, publishers and devs have little incentive to deliver a better product. Failure teaches harsh lessons and will serve to drive a change more effectively than complacency.
 

Jaktagious

Member
May 29, 2018
411
In spite of all this I am still excited for this game because I just really want to play a mech suit game and bland gun play aside I really dig Bioware's primer-detonator system (replayed Andromeda the past couple weeks and the combat was the strongest part of that game). Helps that I like the javelin's art styles.
 

Kalentan

Member
Oct 25, 2017
44,624
Has there ever been a retail loot game like that which made the player wait to craft? Or is that only found in FTP games?

I'm trying to think of specific examples. I've seen crafting in retail games that can take a bit (maybe 30 min a most) but nothing that usually lasts hours. The closest thing, but isn't crafting, was the War Table in Dragon Age Inquisition that could take tens of hours to complete a task.

I'd say most "retail" games that do make crafting take long either have it for something like housing or it's a survival game and everything takes time.
 

carlsojo

Member
Oct 28, 2017
33,761
San Francisco
It's confusing how Destiny 2 at launch (less than a year and a half ago) got a pass with an 85 metacritic when it somehow launched missing all the good improvements the original Destiny got through add-ons, yet this game is being torn apart. I guess I'd just like to see a little consistency from reviewers. Without consistency the reviews start to become meaningless to me.

Do you really want me to make a list of all the things Destiny 2 had at launch that Anthem doesn't have?
 

jondgc

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,208
At this point, is there any hope or expectation that the PS4/Pro versions will be the most optimized, or can we expect many of the technical issues to follow to those versions as well?

Playing the demo, there were certainly technical issues getting into games, but once you were in it felt pretty good.
 

Bold One

Banned
Oct 30, 2017
18,911
It's confusing how Destiny 2 at launch (less than a year and a half ago) got a pass with an 85 metacritic when it somehow launched missing all the good improvements the original Destiny got through add-ons, yet this game is being torn apart. I guess I'd just like to see a little consistency from reviewers. Without consistency the reviews start to become meaningless to me.
It's confusing how Destiny 2 at launch (less than a year and a half ago) got a pass with an 85 metacritic when it somehow launched missing all the good improvements the original Destiny got through add-ons, yet this game is being torn apart. I guess I'd just like to see a little consistency from reviewers. Without consistency the reviews start to become meaningless to me.
Trying to throw Destiny 2 under the bus to deflect is lame.
At launch Destiny 2 was a functional romp, with thin endgame. Buy jts still worked, was fun for 50 hours or so.
 

Patitoloco

Member
Oct 27, 2017
23,614
You'll notice that nowhere in my post did I mention punishing anyone. Perhaps don't ascribe quotes in your text that were never stated.

I want bad products to fail so that we receive better products in the future. If mediocrity is met with great success, publishers and devs have little incentive to deliver a better producy. Failure teaches harsh lessons and will serve to drive a change more effectively than complacency.
Your quote (also the bolded parts from your last comment):
It deserves to do poorly. Devs and publishers need to know that this shit is unacceptable
AKA the definition of punishing.
 

Qudi

Member
Jul 26, 2018
5,318
TFW shooting in a "looter shooter" does jack shit to enemies and is one of the worst aspects of the game including customization and variety.
 

ninjabot

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
734
I went ahead and pre-ordered because I like the core gameplay mechanics and have friends that are picking it up too. Feel like I shouldn't have on principle alone because I'm promoting bad game company practices but at least I'll have some fun.