• Ever wanted an RSS feed of all your favorite gaming news sites? Go check out our new Gaming Headlines feed! Read more about it here.
  • We have made minor adjustments to how the search bar works on ResetEra. You can read about the changes here.

AegonSnake

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
9,566
You are aware that Diablo 3 has virtually no endgame at all right? Which is why when new seasons drop you see people log on and play for a couple of weeks and then everyone is gone again because the endgame progression is simply not there. The reason Diablo gets boring has nothing to do with difficulties, and that's not how you create lasting endgame content either.

If you want to see it done right a much better example would be looking at PoE, which offers steady progression from the first minute and all through the endgame. It has multiple systems dedicated to character progression, and there is a clear path where you constantly feel your character getting more and more powerful.

As for customization, without proper well developed and thought through systems in place it doesn't really matter how much customization there is, builds will still end up feeling the same and perform similary. And by all accounts Anthem is severly lacking the systems needed to support meaningful and varied character progression that makes class builds feel unique.
I played Diablo 3 for well over a 100 hours right after playing Destiny 1 back in 2014. I played the reaper of souls expansions that added some new end game stuff like 6 torment difficulty levels and the Rift mode. The end game in Diablo 3 revolved around playing the daily missions and playing more and more difficult levels of the Rift. You did all that to customize your character and create builds tailored to your playstyle. I thought Diablo 3's end game was brilliant because it focused on loot and gave you a lot of sets to chase for each character. i only played with one character but there were over 5 characters in the game each with their own weapons and playstyles.

To me, no game has infinite content. you cant expect people to play the same game over and over again for a decade. 100-150 hours per character is pretty good. Diablo 3 last saw an expansion back in 2014. why would you expect people to play it regularly five years after the last expansion release?
 

Budi

Member
Oct 25, 2017
13,883
Finland
You are aware that Diablo 3 has virtually no endgame at all right? Which is why when new seasons drop you see people log on and play for a couple of weeks and then everyone is gone again because the endgame progression is simply not there. The reason Diablo gets boring has nothing to do with difficulties, and that's not how you create lasting endgame content either. People in general do not find it rewarding to grind for 'Ancient Versions' or 'Better Stats' for items they already have. Especially if there is no unique content or bosses avaliable warranting doing this.
Yes it has, end game refers to gameplay after the player has finished level progression.
 

Scuffed

Member
Oct 28, 2017
10,900
User Banned (3 days): conspiratorial rhetoric
Because they want to take their time with the game and not rush out reviews for fast clicks.

Like the ones in the OP, for instance.

Lol that ain't it. They are waiting for online sentiment to guide their reviews. There is major scrutiny of IGN reviews because they farm advertising dollars from big publishers so they can't have too high a score if influencers and smaller publications are roasting the game. It's all pr, not avoiding being click baity.
 

BMW

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
2,703
EA premiere should have never included this game (and I've said this before). GaaS games should only have one launch.
 

astro

Member
Oct 25, 2017
56,979
Man NO. The "open world" present in this game so far is so disjointed, empty and boring. When it comes to sheer size it's bigger than any of Destiny's environments but it's also incredibly one note. Destiny's environments at least have some genuine aesthetic variety. I can't see how anyone thinks flying around in the exact same setting/environment is better than exploring a variety of different environments. Not to mention the worlds in Destiny at least have some genuine variance in encounter or world design. Nothing I saw in a Anthem seems especially varied or new in the open world past the first short bit of exploration unless I'm somehow missing that there are different biomes to explore. I don't understand how anyone could look at Anthem's open world and say it's better than Destiny in anything but sheer size which frankly is the selling point I think everyone is sick and tired of hearing at this point.
Which is your opinion, but almost everyone outside of the internet (and this is anecdotal, ofc), the more casual folk, have said pretty much unanimously "this is what Destiny promised when they said if you see it you can go there" (hugely paraphrasing, ofc, but this is the gist).

I do believe the average gamer will enjoy this game just for the flying and combat, enough for sales to be strong enough to give it the life line it needs to prove itself. Whether it proves it self is another thing entirely...
 

Wolfgunblood

Member
Dec 1, 2017
2,748
The Land
If half measures and mediocrity/lack of innovation/creativity is what's in store for the future of the gaming then gaming as we know it is dead...I definetly want no part in it. It's the very essence of the thing that brought me into the fold, if you lose that spark then...what's the bloody point ya know?

Those things you're looking for all exist now more than ever, but the big budget multiplayer shooter GaaS that is about chasing Twitch numbers is not the best place to look.

Decent footing?, damn, I'd hate to see what a shaky footing is in your world.

It's typical that new GaaS start out with issues and evolve over time (especially from a developer that is new to it). It's a phenomenon inherent to the model.
 

DNAbro

Member
Oct 25, 2017
25,941
Lol that ain't it. They are waiting for online sentiment to guide their reviews. There is major scrutiny of IGN reviews because they farm advertising dollars from big publishers so they can't have too high a score if influencers and smaller publications are roasting the game. It's all pr, not avoiding being click baity.

Y'all just love making shit up.
 

Brunire

▲ Legend ▲
Member
Oct 25, 2017
933
I find it very funny that people still keep saying stuff like 'b-b-but Destiny at launch!', 'it's a GaaS, of course it will get better!'.

Yeah, Destiny was almost 5 years ago, the point of releasing new games is (outside of making money of course) to be better than what's currently available. And yes, Destiny, Warframe, Division had many years to get where they are now but we should make today the baseline and not what we had yesterday. Game devs should learn from mistakes of others, not repeat them with every launch.

Sure, if the developers keep working on games after release then that's cool, but at this point it feels less like publishers are so desperate to make money RIGHT NOW that they do not think about long-term consequences which, hopefully, will bite them in the ass.

'B-b-but this game is fun' - great, I know many games/movies that were entertaining and would still rate them 3/10 because they are shitty in other departments. Let's set the bar a bit higher than that and judge this piece of media for more than just whether the shooting/movement is nice or not.

If you like it then I envy you but, like the other poster said, filling bars to get to a loading screen that once the bar fills will let you fill more bars is not my idea of fun.

And releasing a loot game that does not let you change loot when you want to because they chose to make it with an engine that is incapable of that but they had to use it because of MONEY...jesus fucking christ.

GaaS and the current review system will never mesh. You expect a new game to have more content than a currently living GaaS game like Destiny? It would be in development for over a decade and still never catch up. They all basically have an early access-like launch because the game needs to start making money and these games always evolve best with player feedback.
 

astro

Member
Oct 25, 2017
56,979
It's typical that new GaaS start out with issues and evolve over time (especially from a developer that is new to it). It's a phenomenon inherent to the model.
Warframe, The Division, Destiny.... all of them started off with this level of critique for various reason and grew beyond it. This is nothing new, and people expecting different just because it was Bioware had expectations waaaay off the norm.

Again, not saying this is a good thing, but this is how these GaaS go.

Release in a lacking state -> grow beyond it.

Anthem has one saving grace in that all futuer story DLC will be free, but unless they really pull some great support out the hat from day 1 I very much doubt many people here will stick with it.

So it could buck the trend, or it could grow beyond what people here think it's possible of reaching, but only time will tell.
 

Tzarscream

Banned
Oct 28, 2017
2,945
At some point it should be understood how new GaaS releases work. I think BioWare's entry into the revenue model is a good time to come to terms with it. Anthem is starting out on a decent enough footing on day one. There's no doubt it will improve and evolve significantly, like these games all do.
Counterpoint, this is why the current model of GaaS is shit.

If they want to do that, fine, but don't make it full priced, maybe make it free to play.

Premium price tag for an experience that won't get to the optimum state until 2 years is not really acceptable.
 

aesync

Member
Jan 19, 2018
560
Chicago
I still couldn't actually tell you what the enemies look like at all despite seeing marketing for this game for years now. I know theres a big earth-creature golem thing thats the size of a building thing that looks like a generic UE4 model. And thats it.
 

astro

Member
Oct 25, 2017
56,979
GaaS and the current review system will never mesh. You expect a new game to have more content than a currently living GaaS game like Destiny? It would be in development for over a decade and still never catch up. They all basically have an early access-like launch because the game needs to start making money and these games always evolve best with player feedback.
This is the inherent flaw with AAA GaaS games.

They need to look and feel like a AAA game, which takes a hell of a lot of resources to pull off at this scale. So they will reach the point where they still have tonnes of features and content to add but can't afford to wait... so they release, and fix as they go.

Again, not saying this is good, it's just how these games go.


Counterpoint, this is why the current model of GaaS is shit.

If they want to do that, fine, but don't make it full priced, maybe make it free to play.

Premium price tag for an experience that won't get to the optimum state until 2 years is not really acceptable.

Premiere lets you rent the game for a month for £15 (plus gives you access to a bunch of other games).

Basic gives yo ua 10 hour trial.

All future story DLC is free.

So, imo, the pricing is actually fine here.
 

Wolfgunblood

Member
Dec 1, 2017
2,748
The Land
You're holding them to a very low standard if you believe this is a normal release, and I disagree entirely that it's starting out on a decent footing. The game outside of the combat and flying is terrible. If it wasn't for that, the game would be getting 5's and 6's I'm sure (and still might). Other GaaS games have released in a much better state, Apex was just last week.

I would expect Apex to be much more competent out of the gate. They have a lot more experience, and they are borrowing heavily from their previous games, they just plugged it into an already established template. Not to minimize the great work that Respawn did with it, but they were set up for a much better launch just due to the various factors that impact that.

The first month or two of a new GaaS multiplayer shooter is likely going to be rocky, especially so with a developer new to it. It might even just be competent and functional enough to show hints of promise at what's to come. Whether or not that should be excused, maybe not. What should we have expected, all things considered?
 
Oct 30, 2017
15,278
It's sad that we've become habituated to playing and justifying the existence of incomplete games. In a world where gaming backlogs are ever-increasing, it's becoming more and more difficult as a consumer to be convinced with sticking with a game for the long haul especially at the initial cost of $60. Flimsy promises of future content cannot be a continued accepted excuse for releasing MP games with barebones content and an IOU.
 

wolflink

Member
Nov 9, 2017
25
No one should but that's what companies want us to start believing, and that it's okay to deliver broken games and the promises that go with them.

We just need to look at the quantity of titles that are bombing critically, nevertheless made big money.

Mass effect
Fallout 76
Shadows of Mordor
The battlefield and battlefront

The companies need to understand to respect long time gamers and the franchises that we love and respect.

And just make new fortnites, robloxes, and apexes to the new gamers.

The big problem with anthem is that it was a game targeted to the longeve audience, but all the elements are designed to the new demographic.
 

Tzarscream

Banned
Oct 28, 2017
2,945
I would expect Apex to be much more competent out of the gate. They have a lot more experience, and they are borrowing heavily from their previous games, they just plugged it into an already established template. Not to minimize the great work that Respawn did with it, but they were set up for a much better launch just due to the various factors that impact that.

The first month or two of a new GaaS multiplayer shooter is likely going to be rocky, especially so with a developer new to it. It might even just be competent and functional enough to show hints of promise at what's to come. Whether or not that should be excused, maybe not. What should we have expected, all things considered?

Apex is free.
 

Thardin

Member
Jan 7, 2018
926
It needs a hell of a lot more loot then. Because streamers like KingGoth and others have already posted that in their few days of playing they feel like they've gotten most of the loot available to them, minus the random inscriptions of course. So you're not grinding for loot so much as you're grinding for inscriptions.

I keep seeing this "it's like Diablo" comparison and I find that way off the mark. Consider: Anthem has a whopping total 3 unique marksman rifles -- Scout, Guardian, Anvil. Masterworks and Legendaries are variants of the same three, statistically identical to their non-legendary counterparts only with different inscriptions and perks. Imagine if Diablo only had 3 one hand swords throughout the entire game and the same sword you picked up 300 hours in was fundamentally the same sword you had 15 minutes in, only with extra added rolls. And those rolls might not even be worth a crap, like DMG +2% to some other weapon. Don't you think you'd get tired of that pretty damn quick? I do.

With regards to your Diablo comparison, most of the weapons in Diablo are garbage. There is a lot of variety, but there are only really a handful that are used in most builds. The rest you pretty much know you can salvage immediately (and often times just recognize the tooltip and don't even identify). Same goes with most of the gear as well. You're looking for a couple of rings and 1 or 2 viable amulets.

Is it really that much better to have 12 swords and 9 be garbage vs just having 3 swords?
 

Servbot24

The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
43,155
Lol that ain't it. They are waiting for online sentiment to guide their reviews. There is major scrutiny of IGN reviews because they farm advertising dollars from big publishers so they can't have too high a score if influencers and smaller publications are roasting the game. It's all pr, not avoiding being click baity.
Don't just make random shit up
 

TheGummyBear

Member
Jan 6, 2018
8,796
United Kingdom
Remember how everyone at the start of the month was worried that Anthem was going to steal Apex Legends' lunch, and it would lead to the end of Respawn Entertainment and the Titanfall franchise?

point_and_laugh-DMID1-5cv4ih16c-480x256.gif


Seriously though, if those initial scores are any indication of the general reaction, I don't see Bioware surviving as a studio. It hasn't exactly been a secret that a lot is riding on Anthem's success, and a middling reaction from the critics is just going to be the kiss of death for this title. People just aren't interested in switching up their "lifestyle game." Destiny players are going to stick with Destiny, Warframe players are going to stick with Warframe, battle royale players with stick with their battle royale of choice. Because those games have years of content, and players have already pumped time and money into earning cool stuff to show off.

The only way you're going to peel people away from their chosen live service title is if you make something that creates a lot of positive buzz.
 

Zonagh

Member
Feb 17, 2019
31
Warframe, The Division, Destiny.... all of them started off with this level of critique for various reason and grew beyond it. This is nothing new, and people expecting different just because it was Bioware had expectations waaaay off the norm.

My god, stop, just stop. I hate to cross post quote myself but
"This is how it is and it's how it always will be" is a poor, almost nonsensical, excuse.

We weren't expecting different "because BioWare", we were expecting different because game design isn't done in a vacuum and it's not September 2014. BioWare had ample time to react to the failures and foibles of similar games in the genre, instead they're launching a game with similar issues. People like yourself are bending over backwards to excuse it by accepting that that's how it always will be. No. Just no. There's no excuse for another developer repeating the same screw ups of 3-4 years ago. This "oh well, that's how it is" attitude is why triple-A gaming is in such a pathetic state right now.
 

Orangecoke

Member
Jan 14, 2019
1,812
We just need to look at the quantity of titles that are bombing critically, nevertheless made big money.

Mass effect
Fallout 76
Shadows of Mordor
The battlefield and battlefront

The companies need to understand to respect long time gamers and the franchises that we love and respect.

And just make new fortnites, robloxes, and apexes to the new gamers.

The big problem with anthem is that it was a game targeted to the longeve audience, but all the elements are designed to the new demographic.

What makes you think F76 made a ton of money?
 

astro

Member
Oct 25, 2017
56,979
My god, stop, just stop. I hate to cross post quote myself but


We weren't expecting different "because BioWare", we were expecting different because game design isn't done in a vacuum and it's not September 2014. BioWare had ample time to react to the failures and foibles of similar games in the genre, instead they're launching a game with similar issues. People like yourself are bending over backwards to excuse it by accepting that that's how it always will be. No. Just no. There's no excuse for another developer repeating the same screw ups of 3-4 years ago. This "oh well, that's how it is" attitude is why triple-A gaming is in such a pathetic state right now.

My god yourself tbh.... you really do need to read before you reply. I literally said "Again, not saying this is a good thing, but this is how these GaaS go."

I'm not excusing it, I think it's shit, but Anthem will be fine because these games go this way.

Or do you think getting angry and being rude to people on an internet forum is going to change things?
 

Servbot24

The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
43,155
Remember how everyone at the start of the month was worried that Anthem was going to steal Apex Legends' lunch, and it would lead to the end of Respawn Entertainment and the Titanfall franchise?
Nope, that didn't happen. There was a thread that asked if it would happen, and most people agreed it would not.

Oh ya IGN is a bastion of great review sites and should be honored with the utmost respect my apologies.
Sarcasm has never strengthened an argument.
 

RexNovis

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,185
Which is your opinion, but almost everyone outside of the internet (and this is anecdotal, ofc), the more casual folk, have said pretty much unanimously "this is what Destiny promised when they said if you see it you can go there" (hugely paraphrasing, ofc, but this is the gist).

I do believe the average gamer will enjoy this game just for the flying and combat, enough for sales to be strong enough to give it the life line it needs to prove itself. Whether it proves it self is another thing entirely...
Pleas show me one person who has said that. Literally anywhere. How is it an opinion that Anthem's open world is a single biome with absolutely no variance in encounter and world design after the first few hours of exploration? Either it is or it isn't there is no opinion there. So tell me am I mistaken? Is there more than one biome? Is there variation in encounter and world design after the first few hours of open world exploration? Because I've yet to hear a single person claim otherwise.
 

oni-link

tag reference no one gets
Member
Oct 25, 2017
16,032
UK
Is the OP not being updated or are there still only a handful of reviews?

I know the game has about 5 release dates, but when we can expect more to come in?

Apologies for not having the time to read all 38 pages if this has been asked/answered before
 

Wolfgunblood

Member
Dec 1, 2017
2,748
The Land
Warframe, The Division, Destiny.... all of them started off with this level of critique for various reason and grew beyond it. This is nothing new, and people expecting different just because it was Bioware had expectations waaaay off the norm.

Again, not saying this is a good thing, but this is how these GaaS go.

Release in a lacking state -> grow beyond it.

Anthem has one saving grace in that all futuer story DLC will be free, but unless they really pull some great support out the hat from day 1 I very much doubt many people here will stick with it.

So it could buck the trend, or it could grow beyond what people here think it's possible of reaching, but only time will tell.

Agreed, and BioWare certainly has their eyes wide open as to how to grow the player base both short and long term. I have to believe they have a number of ideas up their sleeves. We haven't seen anything yet. That's essentially this topic, isn't it? We don't know what we don't know, we only have the foundational release to go by.


Counterpoint, this is why the current model of GaaS is shit.

If they want to do that, fine, but don't make it full priced, maybe make it free to play.

Premium price tag for an experience that won't get to the optimum state until 2 years is not really acceptable.

That's where the story/campaign comes in. If the campaign is lame, it definitely deserves some shit for pricing it as a full price release. If they didn't do any kind of single player content, then it should be expected to be a FTP game.
 

TheGummyBear

Member
Jan 6, 2018
8,796
United Kingdom
Nope, that didn't happen. There was a thread that asked if it would happen, and most people agreed it would not.


Sarcasm has never strengthened an argument.

I recall people going nuts over the fact that the release of Apex Legends mirrored the poor timing of Titanfall 2's release date, fearing that it wasn't going to stand out enough to survive against the release of Anthem, a game that EA has been pushing pretty hard.
 

astro

Member
Oct 25, 2017
56,979
Pleas show me one person who has said that. Literally anywhere. How is it an opinion that Anthem's open world is a single biome with absolutely no variance in encounter and world design after the first few hours of exploration? Either it is or it isn't there is no opinion there. So tell me am I mistaken? Is there more than one biome? Is there variation in encounter and world design after the first few hours of open world exploration? Because I've yet to hear a single person claim otherwise.

I can't show you because they're outside the internet... lol.

These are work colleagues, friends, nephews, etc... people who don't speak online. And I said it's anecdotal.

There are comments like this all over the internet too, though, the opinion is divided, not set.

EDIT: here are some people on a random YT vid I found looking for info on something, read the comments - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=puoNlqGdTXk
 

carlsojo

Member
Oct 28, 2017
33,872
San Francisco
This is the inherent flaw with AAA GaaS games.

They need to look and feel like a AAA game, which takes a hell of a lot of resources to pull off at this scale. So they will reach the point where they still have tonnes of features and content to add but can't afford to wait... so they release, and fix as they go.

Again, not saying this is good, it's just how these games go.




Premiere lets you rent the game for a month for £15 (plus gives you access to a bunch of other games).

Basic gives yo ua 10 hour trial.

All future story DLC is free.

So, imo, the pricing is actually fine here.

Hi, the cost to purchase the basic game is 60$.

Excusing Anthem's issues because you can get it via early access/premiere is insane. This is a AAA fully-priced game that is unfinished in its current state.
 

astro

Member
Oct 25, 2017
56,979
Hi, the cost to purchase the basic game is 60$.

Excusing Anthem's issues because you can get it via early access/premiere is insane. This is a AAA fully-priced game that is unfinished in its current state.
You can also rent it for £15 or get a 10 hour trial for £5. The cost is actually fine for a game like this.
 

Alex840

Member
Oct 31, 2017
5,120
We just need to look at the quantity of titles that are bombing critically, nevertheless made big money.

Mass effect
Fallout 76
Shadows of Mordor
The battlefield and battlefront

The companies need to understand to respect long time gamers and the franchises that we love and respect.

And just make new fortnites, robloxes, and apexes to the new gamers.

The big problem with anthem is that it was a game targeted to the longeve audience, but all the elements are designed to the new demographic.


What makes you think Shadow of Mordor and Battlefield bombed critically?
 

ornery

Member
Nov 15, 2017
625
Can someone explain why so many people are wishing death upon BioWare? Is it pent up anger from the cancellation of ME? Or just wanting to watch the world burn?
 

Scuffed

Member
Oct 28, 2017
10,900
You got called out cause you made BS up and now you are just deflecting.

I think IGN's review rep is in the dirt and that they do monitor online sentiment and youtubers as a guide. I mean they just fired an editor for plagiarizing a youtuber. I think if multiple publications are trashing the game and they come out with an 8.5 everyone will make fun of them. This is a very real concern for a site as large as IGN.

I have no insider info I just think it makes sense for them to do this and makes a hell of a lot more sense than them not wanting to be "click baity" lol
 

HaremKing

Banned
Dec 20, 2018
2,416
their expectations is only 5-6 Million by March, this game will do that easily
Games that are currently ranking higher on Amazon US than Anthem (PS4), which is 3 days from launch.

-Red Dead Redemption 2
-Super Smash Brothers Ultimate
-New Super Mario Bros U Deluxe
-GTA 5 (it's $15, understandable)
-Kingdom Hearts 3
-Zelda Breath of the Wild
-Spider-Man
-NBA 2K19


Anthem is currently ranking at #53 on PS4 and the X1 SKU is not in the top 100.

For reference, Far Cry New Dawn, a game that I don't think set the gaming world on fire is #55.

I wouldn't be particularly confident in Anthem selling that much without heavy discounts soon after launch.
 

DNAbro

Member
Oct 25, 2017
25,941
Can someone explain why so many people are wishing death upon BioWare? Is it pent up anger from the cancellation of ME? Or just wanting to watch the world burn?

Saying you think they might die, doesn't mean you want them to. If the game is a failure and considering how EA has been operating it is a possibility that could happen. The "RIP Bioware" posts are just that.