I'm sure it will have its own unique issues as I can't think of a flawless MP launch. Hopefully people have their expectations properly calibrated in terms of amount of content at launch.
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Anthem: New NVIDIA CES 2019 Trailer
- Thread starter Rodjer
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I'm sure it will have its own unique issues as I can't think of a flawless MP launch. Hopefully people have their expectations properly calibrated in terms of amount of content at launch.
Like you, I am also trying to stay optimistic about this game. My personal worry is that I'm not sure there's a clear mistake to avoid here. These types of games are quite ambitious, and usually just naturally fall short as they do not have unlimited time and budget to develop. It will therefore have some kind of grind or gameplay loop that will excite some and turn off others.
IMO DA2, DA:I and ME 2/3 felt that bioware took a lot of liberty decisions, specially wasting resources in multiplayer for ME; but yes bioware is free to tackle any genre they want.
I feel left out because it is such an 180 on their past games and knowing EA if the sale performance of the game is disastrous bioware will probably be dismantled like westwood was.
An example to your question! Creative Assembly which usually makes strategy games such as total war has made alien isolation. When Alien isolation was announced CA clearly stated that they were still working in their strategy games and alongside the development of Alien isolation they released DLC for their latest strategy games. Do also note that alien isolation was/is a game that is very different and niche when compared to other games on the market. CA publisher, sega, usually is not very picky with sale performance, they rarely close studios with just 1 "failed" game.
Bioware is making a game that feels like destiny/borderlands/division/etc. is not making new content for their old games, has not mentioned at all that they are working on their SP games. Their publisher, EA, usually push for max profitability adding lootboxes, multiplayer, mobile game interaction as well as closing studios that made genre defining games.
Now, you are free to disagree but from my perspective bioware is just not doing a good job showing taht their SP ventures will continue. For all i know Anthem will be a GAAS and will be supported for 5-10 years like a PDS game; which would mean that there would be no SP game in the mean time.
That's not accurate, and your concerns are the exact reason they showed this:
They've been doing that for 23 years now. While I love those games to death, I'm also open and understanding that a studio wants to try something different for themselves.
Yeah I'm quite concerned about there be a very high level of repetition in order to prolong "engagement"
Really does seem like its destiny with a few touches like personal story in the city. So presuming its like Destiny - fun to play but to GAAS-fied to be immersed in (like I was ME)
Yeah hopefully both can exist. The concern is that Bioware can only do online GAAS cash grabs whilst ignoring single player games
That reminds me of the comment made a couple years ago by Pete Hines about Bethesda not being a vending machine. It's also why I fear Anthem and Bioware are in a similar position with so many fans not wanting them to try something different even before they've actually played the game.
It looks really beautiful, i think i will buy it just to fly through the world, don't care that much about the combat, looks boring.
The teaser is all fine but without a release date, i think my point still stands. Right now there is no way to know when the next bioware SP RPG is coming. This is way i said to look at creative assembly (CA).
Before alien isolation launched in October 2014, CA showed a teaser for their next game (with a release date) and they released DLC for rome 2 for free (which was making 1 year).
Bioware could have added a date for dragon age like 2020, bioware could have continued to support ME: andromeda/ME3/dragon age inquisition yet they focused all resources in Anthem.
PDS, for example, rotates staff between games which i imagine they do because people get tired on working on the same project for years. IMO EA and bioware have the resources to the same. Couldn't they at the very least kept bioware montreal to rework or make new DLC for ME:A or some other SP game?
In the end, like you said, it is Bioware's choice on what games they want to make. I just hope that they will eventually return to their traditional games, they haven't done a new baldur's gate/neverwinter nights game in 10-15 years (depending if you count dragon age in it or not), I miss those games.
I understand i just wish they did it the way CA did . CA while making alien isolation was also doing their traditional game (attila) + DLC for older game (rome 2).
I'm ok with the studio trying new stuff i just wish it wasn't at the expense of the old games.
Personally speaking they are free to dabble in the formula and i'll be there. The games are so unique and i have a lot of fun with them that to me the new content is worth the price tag. If they are going for something radically different (like changing from SP to MP) I'd appreciate if they at least left (or hire a new ) crew to make a small DLC or an expansion to an old game.
You can look at creative assembly (CA) which while they did alien isolation they were also doing their traditional games.
Receipts? I'm fairly certain this is false, BW Montreal worked on the MP portion of ME3 completely independent of the campaign crew at Edmonton.
Why would they? "Everyone" decided it was the stupidest game ever based on some wonky animations and the game tanked both critically and per EA's expectations.
They tried a new crew (see ME:A), didn't work. DA:I had quite a bit of expansions, pretty sure the story they wanted to tell was completed. It is unrealistic to expect them to continue to support a game indefinitely unless the game has an online component. What single player focused game has ever received support after ~2 years especially considering industry wide dlc generally doesn't sell well?!
It's fine to not want to play this game or to be cautious but it seems ridiculous to expect devs to act like short order cooks. Don't like it, don't buy it. Personally I loved the combat/gameplay loop in the ME MP games, this looks to be an extension of that. Sure, I'd like another ME (hell, I was quite annoyed that we did not nor will not get any closure with ME:A- book doesn't count imo) but that doesn't automatically make this game crap. If someone doesn't like MP focused games I'm fairly certain there is a dev out there to cater to those particular tastes...
Agree wholeheartedly with everything you say, deafmedal .
Also, there is this common notion that developers "waste resources" on multiplayer. Which is simply not the case. Multiplayer means additional audeinces and monetization, so that warrants more budget. Without the MP, the game would just get less resouorces and budget, but it would not magically turn into more SP content or features.
Also, there is this common notion that developers "waste resources" on multiplayer. Which is simply not the case. Multiplayer means additional audeinces and monetization, so that warrants more budget. Without the MP, the game would just get less resouorces and budget, but it would not magically turn into more SP content or features.
Are the schedules and budgets for games usually so well crafted that nothing spills over? They never have single player staff work on the multiplayer portion in unplanned times?
Also, what would be wrong with making more less risky (because they're smaller) games instead of throwing all the eggs in one basket and praying for the success of both the MP and SP portion of a game?
Of course that can happen, and the reverse as well. My point was the common misconception that if a game does not have MP (usually the mode that will provide retention and additional revenue in post launch), then the rest of the game would instead suddenly have x Millions more budget. Reality is that there would be less budget from the get go, or worst case perhaps even less for the SP part due to the expected lower sales forecast and P&L.
It is sad fact that SP/ story-based DLC often has a low attach rate, even when both game and DLC are good.
In many ways, even people that want the SP should be happy about added MP modes since they can be good at for the studio to make additional money.
And as for the fear that BioWare will suddenly stop doing SP games because they work on a GaaS project:
BioWare has been working on a service game since 2006 (and operating it for the past 7 years), before a single Dragon Age or Mass Effect game has been released. So they can clearly do both kinds of projects.
It's third person and it has movement traversal that seems a bit more similar to Warframe. Outside of that in terms of theme, in terms of aesthetic, in terms of visual design and even pacing, I would argue it seems more similar to Destiny. That's just the way I perceive it and I don't mean any of it as criticism. Those are all elements that I believe Destiny deserves commendation for, it has strong visual design and though it falls a bit short on it for me, it has a theme of appealing to something "bigger" than the characters themselves. There are elements of that in Anthem's story and that's a good thing.
If you disagree that's fine, it's just my opinion versus yours, they don't have to be the same, but if your sole argument is "I disagree" there isn't much discussion to be had.
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I'd be lying if I said that Anthem was not one of the games on my mind when I built my new PC. Very happy to hear about DLSS support as well!
You are correct that different team made different part. I meant that they could have used bioware montreal to do SP DLC alongside the main studio
IMO that team instead of multiplayer they could have done more SP DLC. Obviously it might not have been as profitable as the multiplayer but as a costumer I'd have preferred the other way.
CA's rome 2 was also a disaster and CA suported the game for at least 5 years. Right now the game is completely different from release and stands as one of the best selling entries of the total war franchise.
Bioware and/or EA could have chosen to take the loss on this title and keep working on it for a few years to make it reach an "acceptable" state instead they chose to take the easy path and cut their losses.
DA:I had 3 DLC. I don't think that is that big of a number. DA:O had 8 DLC + an expansion.
Most of the games i play in the year 2018 have been suported for years with content. CK2,EUIV, HOI IV, stellaris, Rome 2, warhammer trilogy, Prison architect, dungeon of the endless, endless legend, transport fever, dungeons 3,Cook, Serve, Delicious!. Those games have at the very least 2 years of support.
I think you will point out that those aren't mainstream games. Bioware RPGs were one of the few mainstream titles that i enjoy. I'll pass most if not all mainstream titles because they aren't games i like.
Here is my steam profile in case you want to see my tastes
The part i hated most of ME2/3 was the combat becoming more of a shooter. I'd prefer more of roleplay mechanics specially if they are turn based like KOTOR. The faster a game is the harder it is for me to enjoy.
But the main problem was bioware in an interview saying that Anthem was a bioware game with a full story with choices, which got my hopes up. A game can have MP if the SP is good enough i don't really care about MP. The thing is the more they show the game the clearly it show that this is primarily a MP title with a few story bits here and there. The more they show the game the more it seems that playing the game all by myself will be incredibly boring.
I never said that Anthem is a bad game. It just isn't fun to me (and i really like mechas). I won't be buying it like you said. The key to my thoughts is the bolded part. RIght now, to my knowledge, there isn't any video game company making "bioware like games". The closest one is obsidian with PoE and Tiranny; which while they are great don't really follow the style of bioware games even through they are the same genre.
With ME2 and ME3 adding MP and leaning more on shooter mechanics.
with DA2 leaning more on real time combat
With DA:I padding an open world with repetitive mmo like quests so that it inflates the time needed to see through the game's content.
With anthem being a mostly MP title.
Bioware hasn't done a traditional RPG SP for a decade. I don't think it is unfair to ask for a new one but I understand the appeal of anthem if you enjoyed ME3 multiplayer.
1. All examples you mentioned are systemic games, as opposed to story-driven ones. That makes them much more replayable, and players more likely to buy new content as opposed to a story-driven game that the majority of players only finish once (if at all- only 42% of people finished ME3 in the first 5 months after release).
2. Most of the games you mentioned would be much cheaper to produce new content for as opposed to a DA or ME game with their HD third-person assets and lots of voice lines in many languages.
3. When BioWare recently said that they would be doing exactly what you ask for with the next Dragon Age, fans started rebelling cause they don't realize that "Games-as-a-Service" does not mean competitive multiplayer^^
Basically, you are saying that because completely differently structured games in different genres that are much cheaper to develop than Dragon Age have lots of content, it is unfair that BioWare does not do the same. That does not reflect the business realities of game development though.
And just because you chose to take a very narrow personal definition of what a single-player RPG is does not change the fact that they have released 7 SP-focused RPGs in the last decade. Just because the camera changed, or the style of combat is different doesn't change that. The only exceptions are The Old Republic and Wrath of Heroes, which are both MP-only.
Really curious to see how this unfolds...
Already quite impressed with RTX in BFV even if it sometimes gets me killed when I take in the scenery.
They're giving away copies of Anthem AND BFV now with 2080s.... going to try my luck. :p
Almost none of the people involved in those great Bioware games of old even work at Bioware anymore anyway though... (and it shows).
There's still quite a number of veterans from the 90's there. Mark Darrah (exec producer on Anthem and DA) for one has been there since before Baldur's Gate shipped.
In any case, I'm not sure what this points out anyway, the majority of people in a majority of decades-old studios around the world have not been there since their inception. Most change jobs, seek different opportunities all the time. This isn't something specific to BioWare. A ton of people currently have been there for 10+ years, making single player RPG games year after year. It's ok to have the desire to do something different creatively for a change.
Your point is that they might be tired of sibgle pkayer rpgs. You brought this up as a response to someone mentioning bg and drago age.
My point is that most of those people arent there anyway, so singke player rpg fatigue seems like an unlikely thing to be the factor involved.
I dont know what the factors actualy are though.
You don't have to be there for the entire 23 years. Even 5-10 years working on the same project or IP leads to burnout. Many of the people there have been there a while, and I'll I'm saying is wanting to do something different is perfectly reasonable for any creative.
1) 42% of people finishing a game, from my knowledge, is very high. From the interviews i ready usually less then 30% finish games they bought. IMO having a storyline or being more mehcanics focused means nothing for DLC. Look at tyrany for example it added DLC events when you moved between locations. I am sure game designers could have much betetr ideas on how to expand a storyline focused game as DLC.
2) i wouldn't mind if bioware cut the shiny graphics to make the game cheaper. IMO you can see from my steam profile that many of my most played games all have, unfortunately, bad graphics. CK2 in particular looks, imo, horrible. So do the animations in Football manager. I don't mind cutting graphics, voice acting as well as making the game more expensive as long as i get a good game to play.
3) I am not like most fans; For most people consoles are easier to use, prefer games that have shiny graphics and MP components (the biggest games in the world are MP focused). Just because I am not like most fans i don't think it devaluate my wishes. Yes, they are unlikely to be catered to which is why i made my first comment, I am "always" left out when companies reach mainstream appeal.
True i don't know the realities of game development, i am a doctor after all. That said the thing is there is no need for bioware to have these big budget games, I can't choose the budget, for me a 2d game with a good art style with the usual bioware mechanics (end of the world plotline + weird companions+ new worlds to discover + turn based RPG combat) is good enough for me to pay 100s of euros. I have 30h on pillars, almost 100h on darkest dungeon, 100hs in baldurs gate and neverwinter nights.These are all games that, to my knowledge, would be relatively cheap to be make.
your last paragraph is really unfair and made me almost not answer to you. I'll just ask you to compare DA:O and DA:I, do you really think they have equal quality RPG components?
Would you not agree that DA:I has far too many fetch quests + much more focus in battles when compared with DA:O? I'd even add that the "open" world part of DA:I is completely "empty" of significant content; almost all the main quests as well as the companion story lines happen in unique maps that are segmented from the open world.
If what you like the most was the reading and talking, you know the Role-play part instead of the action wouldn't you feel left out?
I don't think i have a narrow definiton of a SP RPG. I just think that the latest games from bioware are much more focused on action and set pieces VS the "complex" decision making that makes an RPG. If you think ME and dragon age as heavy on the RPG part as games like pillars of eternity i don't think we will understand each other.