Because men can just go and watch another show to get their fulfillment of male representation.
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Anita Sarkeesian Tweets about barely any female characters in first two eps of Mandalorian. Goes about as well as you'd expect.
- Thread starter Fudgepuppy
- Start date
True, and technically one of the goons that gets it in the beginning is a human male. But none of these roles are significant and would address her 'complaint' in a meanginful way. Because Gina Carano has featured in promos along with Ming-Na Wen, this criticism seems way too early.
This kind of reminds me of the Era discourse on the Attack on Titan manga. Its ok/understandable to be jaded towards the people who create the media you consume but most times its better to wait. Not to say you can't criticize a work as its coming out but to unequivocally state that X story is Xenophobic/Anti-Semitic/Misogynistic always seems counter productive to good discourse.
Especially when the throughline of the series seems to be the main character eventually caring for and protecting a child.
Yeah, Star Wars is really not the tree to be barking up considering how much effort they've put into diversity.
There should be more representation in big media franchises. It's only been 2 episodes tho. She shouldn't get harrassment for her bad premature take.
Couldn't agree more; I'd have dropped the show after the first episode if not for the Yoda-ling.
Anita's criticism is on point as well; I was honestly surprised they closed out episode 2 without at least introducing Gina Carano's character.
Absolutely disgusting amount of hate for something trivial like a streaming show and someone making a point about it. Personally I'm conflicted about this kind of issue cause honestly while everyone deserves representation and it would be great for everyone to look up to badass heroes and strong roles they can relate with, I rarely find myself losing sleep because there are stuff I would watch for the strong female or PoC roles and then there stuff where I want a strong male lead, and star wars is one of em. But yeah, those assholes attacking Anita can fuck off for all I care.
Asking sincerely:
Did 'Orange is the new Black' get any blow back for featuring primarily women or did "Big Little Lies"?
Is this toxic masculinity primarily sequestered to Genre content mainly? or enthusiast type media like your SciFi, comic book, nostalgia pop stuffs?
I didn't even know Ocean's 8 had detractors. I mean that is just ludicrous almost silly. There are some stupid people in the world. Who loved the franchise enough, had that much of a blood tie to be offended by an all female take/version? I work in town and female led Ocean's spin off scripts have been passed around for years since like Ocean's 12. It was inevitable. It seems to me that male superfans of ANYTHING tend to in, just their existence, make anything that could be fun and entertaining an alienating pain in the ass for people who just want to enjoy things.
Did 'Orange is the new Black' get any blow back for featuring primarily women or did "Big Little Lies"?
Is this toxic masculinity primarily sequestered to Genre content mainly? or enthusiast type media like your SciFi, comic book, nostalgia pop stuffs?
I didn't even know Ocean's 8 had detractors. I mean that is just ludicrous almost silly. There are some stupid people in the world. Who loved the franchise enough, had that much of a blood tie to be offended by an all female take/version? I work in town and female led Ocean's spin off scripts have been passed around for years since like Ocean's 12. It was inevitable. It seems to me that male superfans of ANYTHING tend to in, just their existence, make anything that could be fun and entertaining an alienating pain in the ass for people who just want to enjoy things.
The point is obviously a valid one, but using the first two episodes of the The Mandalorian was not the way to go about it for a variety of reasons.
No. It's a valid criticism despite the minor inaccuracy.
See below:
Geena Davis had good commentary on this:
Also, not quite directly related to Mandalorian but another important point just about female representation in general:
Pretty much my take, I couldn't imagine getting the shit she gets over such trivial things, but I usually don't allow the man babies online to change my judgement or control the narrative. Like you said just seems premature.
I think everyone should just fucking wait till the show ends for fucks sake. Its literally something like over an hour in and we already deal with this shit when we know (from the trailer) that there will be actiony women in there as well. Its getting tiring. Wait till the end, then criticise the fuck out of it. (I dont mean you btw)
I get where Anita is coming from. However it's two episodes, one of which started with 10 minutes of no dialogue during its 33-minute run time.
We have acknowledgement of female characters coming from some of the most badass women on the planet. I'd rather approach the judgment of how Mandalorian is treating female characters with the totality of the content and not based one or two episodes dropping in a series about a loner bounty hunter who clearly keeps his interactions with other people limited.
We have acknowledgement of female characters coming from some of the most badass women on the planet. I'd rather approach the judgment of how Mandalorian is treating female characters with the totality of the content and not based one or two episodes dropping in a series about a loner bounty hunter who clearly keeps his interactions with other people limited.
Though outside of the cartoons there's still a bit of work to be done. The bait-and-switch with Finn for presenting him as a possible Jedi to essentially being an over-the-top comedic relief acting trope for half his scenes it felt like was a recent misstep.
As for Anita, I can understand the argument, but I do think some even here are disingenuous by arguing the initial bar fight should have included a woman given knowing full well how that would have gone if he was beating on a woman, instigator or not, in the first 5 minutes. But could have the scientist, or his go between, the landspeeder driver, or the last planets guide (even as an alien species still, which also of course has issues I'm sure) been women? I think there's a good argument to have there.
But I can also see the possible intention to tone this underworld as a patriarchal/misogynistic society, and maybe there will be some narrative to go along those lines. But I can understand why waiting for that to be brought up later can be seen as a handwave, no matter the hypothetical time spent over it. Plus until that comes up, that's just an assumption/audience excuse until those involved address it.
It would be nice though if the opinions of a bunch of Twitter neckbeards wasn't attributed to everyone else though who isn't acting in such a manner.
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Anita could tweet about the weather and she'd get harassed, don't victim blame
if you had visited the OT you would have noticed that this point has been already talked about
User banned (1 month): peddling conspiracy theories from hate groups
How is this show normalizing patriarchy?
It's not but she makes money on getting people worked up (social media engagement). If there was no money in doing it whether it was movies, games or tv shows then she wouldn't do it at all which says it all about her motivations.
It was a premature hot take, and I have vehemently defended her in the past but...I get the feeling that she did this on purpose and it's not helping the cause.
Can't women do this as well? I mean its only the second episode?
Not as easily as men can. Which is the point of the post I quoted.
Men don't have to make an effort to seek out entertainment on a basic level of visual representation of men on screen.
Because there's more of them on screen than women.
You'll note that I wasn't specifically that piece but the one time (and that I clearly didn't care about it anyway). It's one thing to say an entire piece of work is bereft of a particular people, it's another to point at one specific part of it and talk publicly about it. Particularly given her reputation. Particularly knowing the reactions that things like this get. I'm not blaming her for the rancor of the responses, but I can at least say it was a poor decision for her to not take a step back and think "Hey, maybe this isn't the best criticism to make right now." It's not silencing a voice to be heard, it's making a judgement call that maybe what the point you're trying to make just ain't that important right now, especially given the response doing so will receive.
This is also true. Don't like her, but nobody deserves the dogpiles she gets unless they do something ridiculously terrible. Unfortunately this means, to some people, that she breathed.
Well, no one would do anything if they didn't get paid lol. Kinda weak argument.
You think more women with speaking roles might pop up in those episodes one day?
Like patched in?
I will say that judging a series on the first two episodes about representation seems kind of silly. For all we know the show could be full of fantastic female representation and only the first two episodes were light on it.
But also, it was kind of light commentary and she really didn't need to be dogpiled for it.
But also, it was kind of light commentary and she really didn't need to be dogpiled for it.
I think they're talking about future episodes, we've seen multiple female characters in promo stuff and we know some female cast members.
To be fair, she was specific critiquing the first two episodes. It is pretty weird to have a major television show where the main character only interacts with ONE woman by the end of the second episode.
She's right, I love the show but in the first two episodes only one woman for a few seconds.
Even in the cantina they could have at least had a woman speak a line or two.
It will probably get better in the coming episodes if the trailers and promotional material is an indication.
Even in the cantina they could have at least had a woman speak a line or two.
It will probably get better in the coming episodes if the trailers and promotional material is an indication.
I mean to be fair the main character only interacts with what 4 humans total throughout the first 2 episodes?
Some of the aliens could've been women. The scientist with Werner Herzog could've been a woman. There are lots of ways to do this. Assuming that male is the default is the problem.
She critiques media, and runs a non profit. She ain't stacking bills.
do aliens in star wars even adhere to human gender?
I legitimately dont know the answer to that.
Does female alien representation actually count?
I agree and also want to know if aliens in the Star Wars universe adhere to our gender standards.
There are so many possibilities.
There are plenty of aliens with binary genders in Star Wars, and there are likely just as many with non-binary genders. There are male and female Zabrak, there are male and female Togruta, there are male and female Twi'leks, wookiees, etc.
Plenty of opportunities for female representation in the alien space.
While i agree there was more realm there for representation i do find it a bit premature to dog the show about a lack of representation when there have been like 5 or 6 speaking roles of any type in 2 episodes.
See I think the problem is that the misogynist blob will hate her no matter what she does, so she gains little to nothing by tailoring her message to try to appease them. Either they'll nitpick the ways in which a more precise statement is wrong, or they'll just make up shit. Truth is a pretext to the hatred of women for these people.
Like I said, the critique is about those first two episodes. The fact the show doesn't have a lot of characters in it is part of the problem, the other problem is that virtually all the characters who ARE there default to men.
I guess it would be one thing if there were some story supported reason why they needed to be men but there isn't. So realistically speaking it should be about a 50/50 or at least 60/40 split but it isn't and I suppose thats the problem