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StarCreator

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,853
It felt accurate initially, but now it's funny in a "laugh at ERA for not knowing how words work" kinda way.
I think negative reaction to the whole premise - that the protagonist was falsely accused of sexual assault - is understandable especially given current circumstances. We don't need media that falsely pushes the idea that false accusations are at all common.

The rest of the show could be fantastic, but it's forever marred by the social agenda it pushes on a base level.
 

Trojita

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,721
Social agenda? Come on. It's one instance where a character was a betrayed by a horrible human being.
 

effingvic

Member
Oct 25, 2017
14,162
I binged most of the manga chapters of Shield Hero and the "incel" nickname isn't too far off the mark. It has some ridiculous wish fulfillment and you can't help but feel the author has some pent up anger towards women based on his life experiences.
 
Dec 28, 2018
902
Chief reason why I avoided Shield Hero other than it being an isekai is because I heard that it had false rape accusations and slavery in it. And like I said before I get the feeling that this show doesn't have anything particular insightful or meaningful to say about such topics. Like did it really need that kind of stuff in it when it's something that is probably only mentioned one time and then never brought up again.
 

Trojita

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,721
I binged most of the manga chapters of Shield Hero and the "incel" nickname isn't too far off the mark. It has some ridiculous wish fulfillment and you can't help but feel the author has some pent up anger towards women based on his life experiences.
I just reread through all of the manga available. I don't see that much wish fulfillment compared to other Isekai and the rest of the women in the story are great, so not sure where this pent up anger is if it is only focused on one woman character being a revolting human being along with her father.
 
Oct 25, 2017
2,333
I think negative reaction to the whole premise - that the protagonist was falsely accused of sexual assault - is understandable especially given current circumstances. We don't need media that falsely pushes the idea that false accusations are at all common.

The rest of the show could be fantastic, but it's forever marred by the social agenda it pushes on a base level.

I don't wish to judge the merits of Shield Hero specifically, since I have not read the novels or watched the anime, but as a general matter I don't think the narrative element of a false rape accusation should be banned from fiction. For instance, To Kill a Mockingbird (and before anyone says otherwise, I am not claiming equivalent literary merit for Shield Hero) is an excellent novel which centers on the defense of a black man falsely accused of rape in the American South (something which did indeed happen in actual history). I would hope a false rape accusation could be presented in either a fictional narrative or an examination of a real-life historical event such as the Scottsboro Boys case without leading people to conclude from that that all rape accusations in reality must be false, or even that false rape accusations are particularly common. If we can't trust people to distinguish between fiction and reality, or to realize that a simple one-size-fits-all moral analysis shouldn't be applied to every individual case, then we can't trust people with fiction in general, I think.
 

effingvic

Member
Oct 25, 2017
14,162
I just reread through all of the manga available. I don't see that much wish fulfillment compared to other Isekai and the rest of the women in the story are great, so not sure where this pent up anger is if it is only focused on one woman character being a revolting human being along with her father.

These things bugged me a lot:

1. The whole benevolent slave master thing Naofumi has going on. When Raphtalia willfully became his slave again after being freed, I was like WTF. They explain that there's a leveling benefit for party members who are slaves much later but to me the author is normalizing slavery. In fact, this whole mechanic is designed to give a positive spin on being a slave (stat boosts? faster leveling? that doesnt sound too bad!). Like dude really? His entire party later on become his slaves too for this reason. Aside from one, his party is full of slave girls.

2. As much of a villain Myne was, the Queen officially renaming her as "bitch" was the most juvenile shit. It really felt like some angry teenagers idea of retribution against a woman. She's a terrible human being and the MC is rightfully angry at her but his bloodlust towards her during the trial and then subsequent humiliation rubbed me the wrong way. Send her to prison, punish her for her evil deeds. I just wish he rose above that petty stuff.

It's not that it's more wish fulfillment compared to other isekai (the genre is basically wish fulfillment), it's that and all this other stuff in addition.
 

Trojita

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,721
These things bugged me a lot:

1. The whole benevolent slave master thing Naofumi has going on. When Raphtalia willfully became his slave again after being freed, I was like WTF. They explain that there's a leveling benefit for party members who are slaves much later but to me the author is normalizing slavery. In fact, this whole mechanic is designed to give a positive spin on being a slave (stat boosts? faster leveling? that doesnt sound too bad!). Like dude really? His entire party later on become his slaves too for this reason. Aside from one, his party is full of slave girls.

2. As much of a villain Myne was, the Queen officially renaming her as "bitch" was the most juvenile shit. She's a terrible human being and the MC is rightfully angry at her but his bloodlust towards her during the trial and then subsequent humiliation rubbed me the wrong way. Send her to prison, punish her for her evil deeds. I just wish he rose above that petty stuff.

I'll give you that they didn't really need it in there for him to make her a slave again. The flipside of this is that every other aspect of slavery and human supremacy has been seen as incredibly negative. Naofumi is an exception. The other isekai involving slavery that started appearing after Shield Hero was published are in general a lot worse with this in what I call the trope of "The Good Slave Master".

Myne got off easy. Naofumi was actually going to go easy on her until she laughably fucked up his name when pleeding for mercy. The amount of times she was related to bad shit happening with collateral damage involving human lives was staggering. Her schemes against her sister, the princess, were egregious.
 
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Dec 28, 2018
902
Another reason why I'm weary of Shield Hero and the topics within it is because of stuff like Goblin Slayer. Goblin Slayer had shit like rape in it and from what I'm aware of is never brought up again. Meaning that it was pretty much there for the shock value. And I can't help but feel that Shield Hero is using false rape accusations as a sort of a shock value as well and that it's something that has little impact on the story overall. And like Goblin Slayer I see people defending the rape and making up bullshit why it's important to the story or whatever, and it's another why I have a hard time believing that Shield Hero actually handles the false rape accusations or slavery well at all. I know I shouldn't shit on a show I haven't watched but it's hard not to when it has stuff like that in it.
 

SageShinigami

Member
Oct 27, 2017
30,460
These things bugged me a lot:

1. The whole benevolent slave master thing Naofumi has going on. When Raphtalia willfully became his slave again after being freed, I was like WTF. They explain that there's a leveling benefit for party members who are slaves much later but to me the author is normalizing slavery. In fact, this whole mechanic is designed to give a positive spin on being a slave (stat boosts? faster leveling? that doesnt sound too bad!). Like dude really? His entire party later on become his slaves too for this reason. Aside from one, his party is full of slave girls.

2. As much of a villain Myne was, the Queen officially renaming her as "bitch" was the most juvenile shit. It really felt like some angry teenagers idea of retribution against a woman. She's a terrible human being and the MC is rightfully angry at her but his bloodlust towards her during the trial and then subsequent humiliation rubbed me the wrong way. Send her to prison, punish her for her evil deeds. I just wish he rose above that petty stuff.

It's not that it's more wish fulfillment compared to other isekai (the genre is basically wish fulfillment), it's that and all this other stuff in addition.

None of that really qualifies as being wish fulfillment though.

Another reason why I'm weary of Shield Hero and the topics within it is because of stuff like Goblin Slayer. Goblin Slayer had shit like rape in it and from what I'm aware of is never brought up again. Meaning that it was pretty much there for the shock value. And I can't help but feel that Shield Hero is using false rape accusations as a sort of a shock value as well and that it's something that has little impact on the story overall. And like Goblin Slayer I see people defending the rape and making up bullshit why it's important to the story or whatever, and it's another why I have a hard time believing that Shield Hero actually handles the false rape accusations or slavery well at all. I know I shouldn't shit on a show I haven't watched but it's hard not to when it has stuff like that in it.

I can confidently say Shield Hero is way better than Goblin Slayer. Like, in the case of Shield Hero most of this is being blown out of proportion. But the complaints about Goblin Slayer are legit, and you either like it in spite of that or walk away.
 

NaDannMaGoGo

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,963
Another reason why I'm weary of Shield Hero and the topics within it is because of stuff like Goblin Slayer. Goblin Slayer had shit like rape in it and from what I'm aware of is never brought up again. Meaning that it was pretty much there for the shock value. And I can't help but feel that Shield Hero is using false rape accusations as a sort of a shock value as well and that it's something that has little impact on the story overall. And like Goblin Slayer I see people defending the rape and making up bullshit why it's important to the story or whatever, and it's another why I have a hard time believing that Shield Hero actually handles the false rape accusations or slavery well at all. I know I shouldn't shit on a show I haven't watched but it's hard not to when it has stuff like that in it.

Yeh, when I see some of the same people who defended Goblin Slayer argue in favor of Shield Heroe's depiction I'm not going to value that opinion much.
 

Grim

Avenger
Oct 28, 2017
2,036
London, UK.
Tbh, it's bloody fiction and I can't believe this has gone on for pages.

It's been highlighted that the reason he has to rely on "slaves" is because nobody else will party with him due to the accusations surrounding his name along with just being the shield hero.

The reason why the shield hero is so taboo to begin with gets explained as the story progresses further. (I haven't read the novels, the way he is treated was making me so irate I had to wiki what was going on!)


Slavery isn't being "normalised".... I mean, people are already showing even more disdain for the fact that he has one anyways. And even it was the universe, which seems to be somewhat dark anyway is crafted for it.

It's not that deep.
 

Swiggins

was promised a tag
Member
Apr 10, 2018
11,446
Just binged Mob Psycho 100, I get what the hype is about, the show is equal parts hilarious and incredible.

Great season so far.
 
Dec 28, 2018
902
In all


I can confidently say Shield Hero is way better than Goblin Slayer. Like, in the case of Shield Hero there's really no
Goblin Slayer is bottom of the barrel dog shit so I'd be impressed if Shield Hero was worse. Even if it isn't as bad as Goblin Slayer it still has some rather questionable things in it which are rather unappealing to me.
Yeh, when I see some of the same people who defended Goblin Slayer argue in favor of Shield Heroe's depiction I'm not going to value that opinion much.
I've come across far to many people like that and it's why I have trouble viewing Shield Hero in a positive light.
Tbh, it's bloody fiction and I can't believe this has gone on for pages.

It's been highlighted that the reason he has to rely on "slaves" is because nobody else will party with him due to the accusations surrounding his name along with just being the shield hero.

The reason why the shield hero is so taboo to begin with gets explained as the story progresses further. (I haven't read the novels, the way he is treated was making me so irate I had to wiki what was going on!)


Slavery isn't being "normalised".... I mean, people are already showing even more disdain for the fact that he has one anyways. And even it was the universe, which seems to be somewhat dark anyway is crafted for it.

It's not that deep.
It being fictional doesn't make it any less disgusting.
 

FluxWaveZ

Persona Central
Verified
Oct 25, 2017
10,887
I can confidently say Shield Hero is way better than Goblin Slayer. Like, in the case of Shield Hero most of this is being blown out of proportion. But the complaints about Goblin Slayer are legit, and you either like it in spite of that or walk away.
I don't think it's being blown out of proportion any more than Goblin Slayer. In both, the controversial aspects and themes are presented explicitly a few times to set the tone directly, and then provide an undertone for the rest of the story. I prefer Goblin Slayer to Shield Hero right now.
 

Grim

Avenger
Oct 28, 2017
2,036
London, UK.
Goblin Slayer is bottom of the barrel dog shit so I'd be impressed if Shield Hero was worse. Even if it isn't as bad as Goblin Slayer it still has some rather questionable things in it which are rather unappealing to me.

I've come across far to many people like that and it's why I have trouble viewing Shield Hero in a positive light.

It being fictional doesn't make it any less disgusting.

You're right. Just nothing disgusting has actually been showed or happened, bar slaves just existing in the world.
 

SageShinigami

Member
Oct 27, 2017
30,460
Tbh, it's bloody fiction and I can't believe this has gone on for pages.

It's been highlighted that the reason he has to rely on "slaves" is because nobody else will party with him due to the accusations surrounding his name along with just being the shield hero.

The reason why the shield hero is so taboo to begin with gets explained as the story progresses further. (I haven't read the novels, the way he is treated was making me so irate I had to wiki what was going on!)


Slavery isn't being "normalised".... I mean, people are already showing even more disdain for the fact that he has one anyways. And even it was the universe, which seems to be somewhat dark anyway is crafted for it.

It's not that deep.

There's a term for what you're doing, but basically you can't use in universe logic to explain away a writer's real world actions. The writer could've just written it another way. The slavery stuff sucks, and there's no defending it. It actually looks worse than the false rape stuff IMO. Malty is just a legitimate horrible person, the show doesn't really paint women with the same brush.

I don't think it's being blown out of proportion any more than Goblin Slayer. In both, the controversial aspects and themes are presented explicitly a few times to set the tone directly, and then provide an undertone for the rest of the story. I prefer Goblin Slayer to Shield Hero right now.

The troublesome aspects of GS permeate the entire storyline. I knew GS was always going to be the show it was after they beat the Champion or whatever. How priest is treated, the stupid revival spell. Even the character designs are problematic.

Shield Hero shoves most of what we're talking about to the side after next episode, and has much better characterization and design than GS.
 

FluxWaveZ

Persona Central
Verified
Oct 25, 2017
10,887
The troublesome aspects of GS permeate the entire storyline. I knew GS was always going to be the show it was after they beat the Champion or whatever. How priest is treated, the stupid revival spell. Even the character designs are problematic.

Shield Hero shoves most of what we're talking about to the side after next episode, and has much better characterization and design than GS.
True, I haven't seen as much of Shield Hero as I have of Goblin Slayer, so I don't have much to go on. It's good if those elements aren't as prevalent in Shield Hero moving forward, but I dunno. Guess I'll see.

For me, I prefer the GS cast and intentionally simple premise to what Shield Hero's currently about, but that's another discussion.
 

NaDannMaGoGo

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,963
The Promised Neverland - 04

This is starting to feel like a trainwreck to me. Might be too harsh because it's 'functional' on the surface but the direction and production values are downright terrible by now. Jex called the handling of Sister Krone 'character assassination' and that's honestly not too harsh whatsoever. The scene where she once again screamed out her frustrations, ripping apart her weird doll, all accompanied by whimsical music, makes her seem like a lunatic compared to the much more composed and nuanced manga counterpart.

Speaking of which, all the screaming and loud talking present in this show are a huge detriment to the premise and believability. It doesn't get much simpler than that: people who try to be clandestine avoid making noise. Especially if they're supposedly super duper smart.

Decisions concerning plot, pacing and general flow are pretty damn bad. Important chunks are skipped entirely or given little time and others move at snail's pace. What was up with this prolonged first-person view of the three protagonists making their way to Gilda and Don?!? Why was THAT mundane walk of all things played out like something deserving horror vibes? And then the discussion between those characters itself, it just dragged on and on.

All the while there are close to no interesting shots and, once again, it's obvious how static most shots are and how even a lot of simple mouth animation of speaking characters is hidden.

The OST and it's usage don't do the show any favors either.

Imma drop it now and I'm glad I picked up the manga instead. This is a very bad anime and adaptation.
 

effingvic

Member
Oct 25, 2017
14,162
I'll give you that they didn't really need it in there for him to make her a slave again. The flipside of this is that every other aspect of slavery and human supremacy has been seen as incredibly negative. Naofumi is an exception. The other isekai involving slavery that started appearing after Shield Hero was published are in general a lot worse with this in what I call the trope of "The Good Slave Master".

Myne got off easy. Naofumi was actually going to go easy on her until she laughably fucked up his name when pleeding for mercy. The amount of times she was related to bad shit happening with collateral damage involving human lives was staggering. Her schemes against her sister, the princess, were egregious.

There's another one isekai involving slavery? Oh man I kinda want to check it out and see how bad it is for myself.

She definitely got off easy and I wish she faced some real punishment, like prison or something. I'm also unhappy about that resolution in general. Naming her "bitch" and then letting her go also makes light of all the seriously fucked up stuff she was doing.
 

SageShinigami

Member
Oct 27, 2017
30,460
True, I haven't seen as much of Shield Hero as I have of Goblin Slayer, so I don't have much to go on. It's good if those elements aren't as prevalent in Shield Hero moving forward, but I dunno. Guess I'll see.

For me, I prefer the GS cast and intentionally simple premise to what Shield Hero's currently about, but that's another discussion.

There's one notable bit later on that's going to cause some people to have an issue, but by then if the first and fourth episode didn't shake you, this won't either.

And Shield Hero's cast is going to start expanding slowly next week. They haven't really done anything with the "plot" of the series yet--overall its definitely more ambitious than GS, which is really just about a dude trying to kill as many goblins as possible.
 

SageShinigami

Member
Oct 27, 2017
30,460
There's another one isekai involving slavery? Oh man I kinda want to check it out and see how bad it is for myself.

She definitely got off easy and I wish she faced some real punishment, like prison or something. I'm also unhappy about that resolution in general. Naming her "bitch" and then letting her go also makes light of all the seriously fucked up stuff she was doing.
Well, his initial reaction was to have her executed. Which isn't out of line considering she was going to kill her sister. And, to make matters worse, she continues to make trouble and do more fucked up shit after her punishment.
 

Kewlmyc

Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
26,684
There's another one isekai involving slavery? Oh man I kinda want to check it out and see how bad it is for myself.

There was at least two of them last year. How to Summon a Demon Lord and some show with Ragnarok in the title that I can't be bothered to remember. If you include manga, there's too many to count that have the MCs actively participating in slave trade. Hell, there's a manga called "Slave Harem in Another World". The genre is infected with it.
 

Jintor

Saw the truth behind the copied door
Member
Oct 25, 2017
32,404
i'll put my thinking this way: if I wanted to get into internet arguments online about the stupid thing I would have to read/watch the whole thing and hate myself, but if I'm immediately turned off by its initial content then I'm perfectly justified in saying "I don't think it's for me and that first bit was super repugnant so I'm out" and then I just try and refrain from commenting too much unless something that is probably hilariously out of context comes out and I can make a hot take
 

Punished Goku

Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
9,952
I'm so confused about Promise Neverland.
The rope is gone where Norman told don it will be, but Gilda gave mom that letter.
 

Swiggins

was promised a tag
Member
Apr 10, 2018
11,446
There was at least two of them last year. How to Summon a Demon Lord and some show with Ragnarok in the title that I can't be bothered to remember. If you include manga, there's too many to count that have the MCs actively participating in slave trade. Hell, there's a manga called "Slave Harem in Another World". The genre is infected with it.
Ragnarok was with out a doubt the one of the biggest POS I've ever seen, and I've seen a lot of shitty anime over the years. The slavery aspect of it was so jaw-droppingly awful it kinda stunned me a bit.
Dude literally comes across a slave market in a country HE FUCKING CONTROLS and buys a mother daughter pair of slaves rather than....you know...just freeing them and banning slavery. The 10 year old girl is then accepted as a pseudo-member of his goddamn harem...along with 2 other pre-teen girls.

How to Summon a Demon Lord's version of "slavery" was odd...in that it wasn't really slavery despite the use of the word
Dude gets isekai'd to another world as his character from an MMO, he has a ring that reflects all spells back at the caster, so when his summoners (a pair of lewdly dressed anime girls...because of course they were) attempt to enslave him, they get enslaved instead. If I'm remembering correctly the "Slave Ritual" is basically unbreakable and you're left with a situation where the protagonist has two "slaves" that he can't get rid of; both of whom are weirdly really into it...like a bizarre BDSM fantasy gone wrong.
 

SigmasonicX

Member
Oct 25, 2017
15,474
I'm so confused about Promise Neverland.
The rope is gone where Norman told don it will be, but Gilda gave mom that letter.
This isn't an anime screwing up thing, if you're worried about that. There is an explanation.

Well, I haven't watched the episode yet, so maybe they changed it, but if it's what I'm thinking of, that should be the case.
 

Master Milk

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,450
I guess what bothers me the most is that most of the main protagonists in these stories come from the modern era and as such should know how damn bad slavery was and yet when they get transported or reincarnated or whatever they suddenly are a okay with it. It's just why the fuck man do you gotta add that shit when it's add nothing of value to the story. It's chief reason why all isekai are dumpster fires to me.

so, i think it's important to realize that a lot of people, if not most people, don't actually realize how or why slavery is bad. slavery only relatively recently in human history got the bad reputation it has because of how it was carried out in america, but even then, most of the world doesn't really understand what american slavery was, and probably doesn't immediately jump to that when thinking about it. even inside of america you have people downplaying the horrors or not even being taught the proper history. outside of america i wouldn't expect any better
 

JulesLove

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
138
Is the Promised Neverland adaption really that bad? Lots of cut content and bad camera angles/pacing? Cause I loved reading Monster instead of watching that anime adaption. Thinking I should do the same here
 

Kansoku

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,213
I can't compare it to the manga (I'm waiting for the anime to end to read it), but IMO the Promised Neverland anime is fine. I agree that what they did to the inner monologues was pretty bad, but aside from that I'm ok with everything else. I don't know if my standards are lower or what, but it's still miles above most anime.
The loudness of the cast in particular, I feel that it requires a bit of suspension of disbelief. I don't think that it would be enjoyable to watch if the anime went to a more realistic route and made the characters whisper 90% of the time. I'm ok with "breaking immersion" a bit if it means I can clearly hear what is being said.

I'm so confused about Promise Neverland.
The rope is gone where Norman told don it will be, but Gilda gave mom that letter.

It was not her that gave Mom the letter. She went to Krone's room, which is near their room, as we can see when Emma go follow her.

Theoretically, the only person we saw Norman telling about the ropes was Ray, probably as a misdirection to see if Ray was the traitor.
We don't know who put the letter there, and there are a few options:
  • Norman actually told Don about the ropes and he put the letter.
  • Normal only told Ray about the ropes and Ray put the letter.
  • Norman himself put the letter, as a way of throwing mom/the traitor off.
  • Unlikely, but someone else.
 

SigmasonicX

Member
Oct 25, 2017
15,474
From what I've seen, outside of those invested enough in the production of anime to notice things like the bad direction, it's only really manga readers that notice anything off about the Promised Neverland anime, aside from the yelling out plans thing.

I definitely wish the anime got a more competent director, who could make talking and internal monologues scenes more interesting like in Death Note, but it seems to be good enough for anime only viewers.
 
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Steroyd

Member
Oct 27, 2017
691
User Banned (2 Weeks): Inflammatory commentary.
Another reason why I'm weary of Shield Hero and the topics within it is because of stuff like Goblin Slayer. Goblin Slayer had shit like rape in it and from what I'm aware of is never brought up again. Meaning that it was pretty much there for the shock value. And I can't help but feel that Shield Hero is using false rape accusations as a sort of a shock value as well and that it's something that has little impact on the story overall. And like Goblin Slayer I see people defending the rape and making up bullshit why it's important to the story or whatever, and it's another why I have a hard time believing that Shield Hero actually handles the false rape accusations or slavery well at all. I know I shouldn't shit on a show I haven't watched but it's hard not to when it has stuff like that in it.

Shield Hero isn't using it as shock value, more of a device to have Naofumi hate the world he's in, which seems to be playing a part of how his powers are manifesting, then again I could probably say the same thing about how Goblin Slayer's rape is used to portray how evil the goblins are that being said the first episode was for shock value.

The latest episode of Shield Hero has offered 2 opposing perspectives of slavery which is a galactic step up from the usual Isekai trash.
 
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