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Deleted member 31092

User requested account closure
Banned
Nov 5, 2017
10,783
Context: as any anime nerd knows, Studio khara has spent the last 3 years woking on the final Evangelion movie (releasing June 2020), and recently it was announced they were were switching from 3DS Max to Blender along with their partner for the movie Project Studio Q.

Studio khara is all about pushing the limit of 3D CGI/2D hand drawn hybrid animation, so the news was pretty important for the industry and of course some publications in Japan interviewed khara about the decision process behind this switch. Original interview here.

Luckly, as usually this more technical discussions of anime never overcome the Japanese language barrier, this one was translated by Geekdom News. Some extracts.



The economical and production benefit of switching from 3DS Max to Blender

- Hiroyasu Kobayashi (Khara Director and General Manager of Digital Department and President of Project Studio Q): "Simply, the project scale got bigger than what was possible with 3ds Max."

- Daisuke Onitsuka (Khara Digital Department CGI Director and Project Studio Q Production Department): "We need more production resources from outside, not only from Studio Q. We need cooperative work with friend companies for our production. However, many of those companies are small or middle-sized, so if we stick to 3ds Max it will cause higher management costs."

You may need a bit further explanation about this.

3dx Max is offered by Autodesk on subscription fee basis, this fee is expensive. According to Autodesk's website, an annual fee for a single user is JPY 254,880 (around 2.400 US dollars). It is expensive still when they offer discounts for multiple users and years. A large company can absorb this cost with a number of users as it has large revenue. But it turns out to be difficult to recoup those costs of 3ds Max for all users in a company of 20-30 people size.

Different tools are used depending on the studios and works in Anime production. Productivity decreases unless they use the same tools and assets (materials such as models, animation data, etc.). Due to this, they tend to work with companies that use the same tools.

3ds Max is an excellent tool and one of the industry standards, but in some cases it causes a "lack of artists" due to its high costs.



How Blender makes 2D/3D hybrid a lot easier

And there was a key functionality that brought Khara to Blender as production studio of "2D Anime works". It was "Grease Pencil".

You can draw lines in 3D space directly with a pen, and not only by making 3D models but you can also draw extra details in the animations themselves.

khara_06.jpg


- DO: "As for our work, we create an image in 3D, and modify it into each frame as '2D Anime'. Even a chief animation director directly modifies each frame manually. We also even add shadows with tools like After Effect afterwards. For example, if we wanted a more sharp elbow in a character, we had to modify the 3D model and insert custom rigs (skeleton) into them. This was time consuming. But Blender enables us to draw with Grease Pencil after the animation is finished. It may not be the way for photo-real CG but it's a good way for 2D Anime. This helps reducing rigging costs."

- Takumi Shigyo (Project Studio Q Production Department): "We are getting more artists that started by using Blender in Studio Q. We are also seeing more high quality works by Blender users from high school students in Award:Q [an annual contest for high school students aimed at finding the best young 3D animators]. I expect these new generations to be the majority working at studios in the future."



How khara is already in talks with other companies about switching to Blender

- DO: "Hand-draw animators can start drawing only with paper and pencil. Just like that, 3D CG animators can start creating only with Blender at the same level cost with 'paper and pencil'. We already started speaking to partner companies 'let's use Blender together'. We are just starting now but high quality work Blender can be the best proof that our choice is the right one. What shows our value is the pictures we make, not the techniques and technologies. We want to share the know-hows with studios so that the Blender community will grow through those."

More at the link.
 
Grease Pencil Tool demo

Servbot24

The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
43,109
For anyone interested in finding out more about the Grease Pencil tool, be sure to follow the work of Jama Jurabaev.




I hadn't personally seen it used for anime but that totally makes sense.
 

LProtagonist

Avenger
Oct 27, 2017
7,585
So... it creates 3D models that look hand-drawn that can then be posed and manipulated and to compose individual frames? Or something along those lines?
 

Nephtes

Member
Oct 27, 2017
4,550
For anyone interested in finding out more about the Grease Pencil tool, be sure to follow the work of Jama Jurabaev.




I hadn't personally seen it used for anime but that totally makes sense.


Wow!
I'm intrigued.
I'd love to see this is real time.

If it's not much different than lining, maybe I can add this to my art pipeline.
 
Oct 26, 2017
6,571
So... it creates 3D models that look hand-drawn that can then be posed and manipulated and to compose individual frames? Or something along those lines?
It is basically Adobe Illustrator in a 3D space. Every Line is editable after being drawn, positioned in 3D space and combined with genuine 3d models at a whim. Grease Pencil was initially nothing but a free hand comment tool to leave notes in the 3d workspace.

I myself have started using it for visualisation processes, like storyboarding or 3d concept art (following Jama Jurabevs tutorials)
 

Sensei

Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
6,515
BLENDER is doing this???? That free 3D program??? Holy shit

This is actually insane, i hadnt looked at Blender in years and its got all this crazy new shit
 

Servbot24

The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
43,109
BLENDER is doing this???? That free 3D program??? Holy shit

This is actually insane, i hadnt looked at Blender in years and its got all this crazy new shit
Yeah, the latest Blender release has a ton of hype and has been getting more and more studios on board. My artist friends are constantly talking about it.

I'm a bit too used to Maya to switch though, lol
 
Last edited:

VariantX

Member
Oct 25, 2017
16,886
Columbia, SC
Shame I never put the work in to really know how to use blender way back in the day. It just seemed way too complex for someone like me at the time when I was just figuring how to use super basic ass Milkshape 3D.
 
Oct 26, 2017
6,571
Yeah, the latest Blender release has a ton of hype and has been getting more and more studios on board. My artist friends are constantly talking about it.

I'm a bit too used to Maya to switch though, lol
Good thing that it natively supports both Maya and 3dsmax button and hotkey mapping. Give it a try. 2.8 has been insane so far. Just for fast visualisation renders Eevee has been transformative. With the upcoming improvements to remesh options and sculpt branch it is going to be one insane package.
 
Oct 26, 2017
6,571
Shame I never put the work in to really know how to use blender way back in the day. It just seemed way too complex for someone like me at the time when I was just figuring how to use super basic ass Milkshape 3D.
2.8 is basically a complete rebuild of every aspect. Especially the UI has been completely reworked, so if you can navigate Photoshop, Illustrator or Clip Studio Paint it basically becomes self explanatory. Furthermore there are tons, and I mean tons good tutorials out there. Free ones from Blender Guru, CG Boost, Jayanam and CG Cookie, even Flipped Normals have started doing Blender 2.8 tutorials now. Paid ones like from Jama Jubarev are also highly useful, even if his tutorials are made using 2.78, the skills transfer easily.
 

Commedieu

Banned
Nov 11, 2017
15,025
Good thing that it natively supports both Maya and 3dsmax button and hotkey mapping. Give it a try. 2.8 has been insane so far. Just for fast visualisation renders Eevee has been transformative. With the upcoming improvements to remesh options and sculpt branch it is going to be one insane package.

Ervee is sick. I just wish it raytraced. Im sure its in the works.

The screen space reflections are good enough tho. I mean if u need a mirror to be exact.. Use cycles wish was also improved.

I switched from maya when i could no longer afford it. Havent looked back. 2.8 though is a breeze compaared to 2.79... Its all coming together.


This guys videos really helped me get used to 2.8


Quickly too. Great format. Bite sizef and everything u need to know.
 
Oct 26, 2017
6,571
Ervee is sick. I just wish it raytraced. Im sure its in the works.

The screen space reflections are good enough tho. I mean if u need a mirror to be exact.. Use cycles wish was also improved.

I switched from maya when i could no longer afford it. Havent looked back. 2.8 though is a breeze compaared to 2.79... Its all coming together.


This guys videos really helped me get used to 2.8


Quickly too. Great format. Bite sizef and everything u need to know.
Blender today has kinda sorta hinted at maybe supporting RTX in the future for Eevee. Right now, reflection and lightning probes are enough for quick visualisation and testing of materials and scene setups. Hell I fooled around with an experiment where I created a sculpt, retopo, rigging, weightpainting, UV unwrapping and texturing. Setting up a scene and doing a few short animations (really bad, I am a modeller not an animator lol) in Eevee and rendering them out took less than an hour on my dingy old cpu. Eevee could be absolutely insane for animated kids shows on TV or YouTube.
 

Dyno

The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
13,272
As a Blender user who isn't very well acquainted with Maya all this Blender hype lately is damn good to see.
 

Laser Man

Member
Oct 26, 2017
2,683
Ervee is sick. I just wish it raytraced. Im sure its in the works.

The screen space reflections are good enough tho. I mean if u need a mirror to be exact.. Use cycles wish was also improved.

In 2.8 you can additionally use light probes (cube map, reflection plane and irradiance volume) for EEVEE, if you want to circumvent the screen space reflection drawbacks!
Edit. beaten like 2.79
 
Oct 26, 2017
6,571
In 2.8 you can additionally use light probes (cube map, reflection plane and irradiance volume) for EEVEE, if you want to circumvent the screen space reflection drawbacks!
Edit. beaten like 2.79
I have also seen people using a hybrid approach. Masking out parts to be rendered in cycles and superimposed over to the Eevee render. A bit overkill maybe, but interesting in that it can cut down render times a lot.
 

Laser Man

Member
Oct 26, 2017
2,683
I have also seen people using a hybrid approach. Masking out parts to be rendered in cycles and superimposed over to the Eevee render. A bit overkill maybe, but interesting in that it can cut down render times a lot.
Probably done in the compositor, I've never given the compositor the respect it deserves... thing seems madly powerful if you know the ins and outs!
 

Commedieu

Banned
Nov 11, 2017
15,025
Blender today has kinda sorta hinted at maybe supporting RTX in the future for Eevee. Right now, reflection and lightning probes are enough for quick visualisation and testing of materials and scene setups. Hell I fooled around with an experiment where I created a sculpt, retopo, rigging, weightpainting, UV unwrapping and texturing. Setting up a scene and doing a few short animations (really bad, I am a modeller not an animator lol) in Eevee and rendering them out took less than an hour on my dingy old cpu. Eevee could be absolutely insane for animated kids shows on TV or YouTube.
Blender today has kinda sorta hinted at maybe supporting RTX in the future for Eevee. Right now, reflection and lightning probes are enough for quick visualisation and testing of materials and scene setups. Hell I fooled around with an experiment where I created a sculpt, retopo, rigging, weightpainting, UV unwrapping and texturing. Setting up a scene and doing a few short animations (really bad, I am a modeller not an animator lol) in Eevee and rendering them out took less than an hour on my dingy old cpu. Eevee could be absolutely insane for animated kids shows on TV or YouTube.

Yes. This is what you do in unreal engine too. But its night and day with that rtx update. Even with my 1080ti. Rendering frames is just a minute or too.

Its coming. Im sure of it. I just wish they didnt get rid of the game programming bit. That way u could do "realtime" capture for animations in evee.

Is there a way to trigger/blend like a walk jump pose animations via the keyboard with scripting u think? Pretty much just trigfer animations via keyboard.
Im fine with the results of screen space. Even my coworkers who are nuke artists were floored by evee. They kept citing the reflections. Its a 99% of thr time no one will really care if its not raytraced as long ad it looks good scenario.

I have also seen people using a hybrid approach. Masking out parts to be rendered in cycles and superimposed over to the Eevee render. A bit overkill maybe, but interesting in that it can cut down render times a lot.

Holy shit. Thats smart. Will be trging this next week.

Thanks
 
Last edited:

Xiofire

Prophet of Regret
Member
Oct 27, 2017
4,136
For anyone interested in finding out more about the Grease Pencil tool, be sure to follow the work of Jama Jurabaev.




I hadn't personally seen it used for anime but that totally makes sense.


God damn, I'm always blown away by stuff like this. As someone who is very very bad at art, I just can't fathom how people can make stuff like this. I just don't have a clue how to start, or how they make stuff THAT good. It's simply amazing and perplexing to me.
 

Servbot24

The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
43,109
Good thing that it natively supports both Maya and 3dsmax button and hotkey mapping. Give it a try. 2.8 has been insane so far. Just for fast visualisation renders Eevee has been transformative. With the upcoming improvements to remesh options and sculpt branch it is going to be one insane package.
Do you feel like the Maya layout would hinder any other functionality? I hesitated to use it because I wondered if I'd be using Blender to the fullest with it.
 
Oct 26, 2017
6,571
Do you feel like the Maya layout would hinder any other functionality? I hesitated to use it because I wondered if I'd be using Blender to the fullest with it.
Afaik they just bring in keymaps and shortcuts with the new UI being closer to industry standards as is. The thing is, even with 2.79 you had some community members set up their own Maya/3dsmax like UIs and radial menus. The thing about the new UI is that you can customize it to hell and back, but can still get access to all panels and menus with a simple button press. Couple that with the new workspace tabs and you can basically set the program up any way you want to. With Ubisoft Animation Studios switching to Blender I can actually see companies releasing workspace setups that help their teams transition easily.
 
Oct 26, 2017
6,571
God damn, I'm always blown away by stuff like this. As someone who is very very bad at art, I just can't fathom how people can make stuff like this. I just don't have a clue how to start, or how they make stuff THAT good. It's simply amazing and perplexing to me.
Practice practice and practice. It really just boils down to that. Just pick up a pencil and paper and doodle. That's literally all there is to get one started. Practice drawing lines, curves, circles. Over time you will notice how you no longer have to think about stuff that was difficult just a few days or hours before. From there you build up your visual library and can expand into other stuff. I am a classically trained graphics artist. My main education was on pencil and ink, logo and print design as well as technical drawing and design. I only got into digital painting, 3d modelling and sculpting a few years ago and I see it as an extension to what I learned before.

That's the harsh truth. It really just boils down to how much time you put into your craft.
 

Servbot24

The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
43,109
Afaik they just bring in keymaps and shortcuts with the new UI being closer to industry standards as is. The thing is, even with 2.79 you had some community members set up their own Maya/3dsmax like UIs and radial menus. The thing about the new UI is that you can customize it to hell and back, but can still get access to all panels and menus with a simple button press. Couple that with the new workspace tabs and you can basically set the program up any way you want to. With Ubisoft Animation Studios switching to Blender I can actually see companies releasing workspace setups that help their teams transition easily.
Okay that sounds cool. I have to prep my drawing portfolio for Lightbox Expo in a few weeks but after that I may try Blender again.
 

ScoobsJoestar

Member
May 30, 2019
4,071
As someone who's been using blender since the dark days before we had a usable interface, heck before we even had GPU rendering, this is really nice to see.
 

Laser Man

Member
Oct 26, 2017
2,683
Any videos about grease pencil's pros and cons for 2D animation?
Not that I'd be aware of them, the gumroad tutorials look like pro level vids but cost money and I'm personally not that deep into 2d animation so I haven't seen them. The most recent thing I've watched was this CG Geek overview but it's not really a detailed pro & cons, more a short complete beginner overview.

 

TheGameshark

Member
Oct 27, 2017
3,361
Catonsville, MD
As someone who's been getting into blender on and off for the last year or so it's really cool to see the amount of hype surrounding blender right now. I really need to sit down and learn how to use grease pencil.
 

VaporSnake

Member
Oct 28, 2017
4,603
For anyone interested in finding out more about the Grease Pencil tool, be sure to follow the work of Jama Jurabaev.




I hadn't personally seen it used for anime but that totally makes sense.

Wow I kept hearing about this tech but I never looked into it until seeing it here, wow...I need to get blender asap.
 

Red

Member
Oct 26, 2017
11,682
God damn, I'm always blown away by stuff like this. As someone who is very very bad at art, I just can't fathom how people can make stuff like this. I just don't have a clue how to start, or how they make stuff THAT good. It's simply amazing and perplexing to me.
Patience. Practice. Discipline. The same way people accomplish anything else.
 

No_Face

Member
Dec 18, 2017
1,080
Brigerbad, Switzerland
My god. And to think that blender is a free piece of software. The work and passion that has made this possible is incredible. I hope they finally get the success they deserve.
 

rsfour

Member
Oct 26, 2017
16,767
Is there an equivalent for the iPad. I want to do something like that on the pro. Can't be arsed to hook up my drawing tablet to the PC lol
 
Oct 26, 2017
6,571
My god. And to think that blender is a free piece of software. The work and passion that has made this possible is incredible. I hope they finally get the success they deserve.
The new grease pencil suite is a huge success story in itself. Completely community founded and built, now implemented in the official update and available to everyone for free.
And the VFX Industry is taking note.

I am curious what Anime Studios can create with Grease Pencil.
 

Deleted member 3812

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
8,821
Anime News Network has reported that due to expensive subscription fees to use Autodesk 3ds Max, anime studio Khara will be completely switching to the open-source Blender software after their current movie project, Evangelion 3.0+1.0, Khara will also be using the Unity game engine:


The anime studio Khara announced on July 30 that it and its Project Studio Q subsidiary will switch to Blender, a free and open-source 3D modeling and animation software, for its future productions. Khara already uses Blender with other software for the studio's upcoming Evangelion: 3.0+1.0 (Shin Evangelion GekijĹŤ-ban :||) film, but the studio will fully adopt the software for 3D CG animation after that project.

Khara has been using Autodesk 3ds Max, a competing 3D software tool. However, due to expensive subscription fees, the company initially considered using Autdoesk Maya, before eventually settling on Blender due to the scale of its projects.

Key to the decision to switch to Blender was the software's "Grease Pencil" tool, which allows users to draw lines in 3D space using a stylus. Khara will also use the Unity game engine to cover areas that cannot be met with Blender.