Yeah me too. It was a whole event in a venue and it wasn't that long ago.
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Angry Joe accused of sexual harassment/predatory behaviour [Updates from both posted]
- Thread starter Serene
- Start date
Yeah me too. It was a whole event in a venue and it wasn't that long ago.
I don't understand, he claims he knows she was posting on Twitter, so couldn't he have been able to show evidence of those posts? If so, why make the claim without showing evidence? He referenced private messages, but unlike the accuser he did not actually show those messages. The accuser even showed a private conversation with a potential unnamed witness who was clearly concerned with Joe's behaviour, but Joe on the other hand mentions multiple witnesses but doesn't try to bring any sort of evidence.
What exactly is my method? I've made a point of saying I'm not sure how best to handle actuations like this as a community. Point taken about the importance of continued discussion.
Your method is this:
If an initial thread was made that detailed "Joe was accused of sexual harassment, he stated nothing for a few days, then published a letter written by his legal team where he revealed he was attempting to silence his accuser with a C&D" I think discourse would be a lot more informed and constructive than everyone following along like its a tabloid story or something.
In 2 and a half days he has already sent a C&D letter. If the only ones involved were the victim, the abuser, and the legal teams, her story would never exist in the public unless some anonymous person leaked it, and even then she couldn't comment. It's constructive for the abuser.
Another part of what makes this so unnerving is that the nature of the sexual harassment story, as many of them tend to be, are all about power, control, and intimidation. Then when you look at Joe's response:
Telling her what she's not allowed to say, explicit legal threats, and throwing his status around all fit with that same pattern of behavior.
I don't mean to use this as evidence, but knowing Joe is an anti-SJW and gun advocate already colours my personal view of him, and his willingness to be aggressive and belittling in pursuit of his interests fits uncomfortably well into that picture.
Telling her what she's not allowed to say, explicit legal threats, and throwing his status around all fit with that same pattern of behavior.
I don't mean to use this as evidence, but knowing Joe is an anti-SJW and gun advocate already colours my personal view of him, and his willingness to be aggressive and belittling in pursuit of his interests fits uncomfortably well into that picture.
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Serious question - If what she posted is true, what law has Joe broken? Some folks are saying to take it to the courts to get to the bottom of it, but I'm not understanding what folks have in mind.
Also, I'm a bit surprised that Joe wasn't more apologetic in his response.
Also, I'm a bit surprised that Joe wasn't more apologetic in his response.
What was decent about him going at her with a cease and desist while also acting very controlling via "What she is not allowed to do is lie about me or defame me to the public and suggest that I am a sexual predator when I am not. If her defamation continues, I will be forced to take further legal action."
If anything, his entire statement proves he doesn't support or believe victims. He is doing the things you shouldn't do. But it's happening to him, so he cannot let that stand.
He didn't break any law, although it seems like Joe wants her to accuse him of assault just so he can deny it. (??? I guess that's easier than admitting he acted like a creep?)
People think "innocent until proven guilty" applies to real life, so they tell them to go to court even if it makes no sense.
Wait, what is wrong with going after someone with a cease in desist? That is literally what any lawyer would tell you to do if someone came at you with these types of allegations.
Just read through what stn posted earlier. I'm not saying I don't believe her story and I don't even like Joe as a person.
She wouldn't be the one taking him to court obviously, and she never intended to.
She wanted to share her story.
But Joe has been according to him wrongly accused of being a sexual predator, which can be a pretty life/career ruining accusation, and claims to have proof and witnesses that her story's a lie.
Why would he not then want his accuser to face legal repercussions?
This is why the tactic is so blatant. It's completely centered around what he thinks it's not a lie. It's one-sided and not objective.
I don't think going to a lawyer should ever be viewed as having a guilty mind, but the cease and desist is the thing I side-eye the most. It seems like an intimidation tactic more than actually arguing the facts, especially when you consider other men in Joe's position (whether guilty or not) didn't gun for the C&D.
I feel like if Joe knew he was in the right, then take it to trial instead of playing these games. If he's worried about economic fallout from sponsors, then the stink is already on him regardless of whether he's proven guilty or not. No point in trying to C&D someone over spilt milk.
I don't know if it's the one-sidedness per se. I can hardly fault someone for denying that claims against them are true. But there are different ways you can frame that.
Joe is framing himself as one of many innocent victims and her as an evil, intentional liar who is trying deliberately to cause him harm. That's a narrative that goes well beyond simply stating things that are wrong. When he says
it's suggesting that there are more lying women out there. It reeks of the idea of duplicitous women manipulating innocent men - again, something that fits all too neatly with a guy who demonizes "SJWs". How does that even help Joe's case aside from leveraging fear of women?
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It's just a a he said/she said game now
he has stated his story, and mentioned further legal action which could include suing her for defamation And then he would have witnesses deposed
depending on who serves who, hopefully she has witnesses or some kind of evidence proving his story is false or backs up her story
he has stated his story, and mentioned further legal action which could include suing her for defamation And then he would have witnesses deposed
depending on who serves who, hopefully she has witnesses or some kind of evidence proving his story is false or backs up her story
Reading all twitter responses, he seems to have an audience of hooligans accorded to his view.
And so, if he only lets the vendetta as a solution, that's what he'll get.
And so, if he only lets the vendetta as a solution, that's what he'll get.
That's a reach
That's fair, read it wrong.
To be honest, I never knew that word was a slur until now. I always thought it was just a shorter version of the other word. Thank you for enlightening me on that.
But am i going to sit behind a keyboard and act holier than thou? No. I'm pretty sure we've all said something that would shine a bad light on us.
edit: I don't want to derail this thread anymore because this is a serious issue. If y'all want to continue speaking about this message me.
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his "angry army"
he's already brigaded them to attack her and this narrative.
Do hotel cameras keep recorded footage after 2 years or do they erase it? This will help prove many things.
User Banned (1 month): dismissive and insensitive commentary around sexual harassment allegations
Anyone that accuses some one in public should have proof. I don't know who tells the truth here but you can't just come and accuse some one which will ruin his/her career and reputation. Angry Joe should bring it to court.
Maybe it's possible for her to pull the phone records for the date it occurred?
You can request it from ur service provider i think.
It might be hard tho cuz it's been long but like when i look at details bills for tmobile it'll show call logs.
It'd help prove he did the thing where he called his phone with her phone?
You can request it from ur service provider i think.
It might be hard tho cuz it's been long but like when i look at details bills for tmobile it'll show call logs.
It'd help prove he did the thing where he called his phone with her phone?
hmm. it'll prove he did call her, but it won't prove if he did it while it was in his possession. so many nuances that can be asked if this goes to court.
Yeah but in his version he doesn't mention a phone call at all and says it was thru dms.
So maybe it would put a hole in his story?
I'm not too sure though if it helps but it's something to work with
People can truly believe they didn't do anything wrong and still be wrong. The apology reads like this sometimes. That said I have no idea what the truth is. But, she put herself out on a line by coming forward. I don't see malice from her. Threats on the other hand, not so sure I agree.
A cease and desist is a letter that says "stop doing this thing or I might sue" it's not an order (which is a thing that the law compels people to obey and generally comes from a court) and it has no other effect than to warn a person that you don't like what they are doing. I could you send you a cease and desist from posting tomorrow, but it's only real effect would be to let you know that I don't like something you have done. Cease and Desist letters are only as effective as your threat to sue is believable. The better/expensive/time-comsuming/etc. a potential case, the more effective the letter.
Could you name someone whose career is actually over because of allegations?
This is amazing.
"He psychologically attacked me, kept me isolated on purpose and I really think he just wanted sex due to how he behaved, and it sucks, and people should know."
"My lawyers agree that I never actually raped you and I neither shot anyone, or asked for hostage money, or robbed a store. I'll be sending a cease and desist, so please legally confirm that I never robbed a store and also don't talk about this ever again or I'll sue the shit out of you."
At no point in that lengthy statement did he claim any actual part of her actual story to be untrue. So yeah, she's just likely telling the truth.
"He psychologically attacked me, kept me isolated on purpose and I really think he just wanted sex due to how he behaved, and it sucks, and people should know."
"My lawyers agree that I never actually raped you and I neither shot anyone, or asked for hostage money, or robbed a store. I'll be sending a cease and desist, so please legally confirm that I never robbed a store and also don't talk about this ever again or I'll sue the shit out of you."
At no point in that lengthy statement did he claim any actual part of her actual story to be untrue. So yeah, she's just likely telling the truth.
Johnny Depp | Actor, Producer, Director
Known for: Pirates of the Caribbean: The Curse of the Black Pearl, Sweeney Todd: The Demon Barber of Fleet Street, Pirates of the Caribbean: At World's End
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All his movie castings and other stuff were dropped. His career was literally over at one point.Johnny Depp | Actor, Producer, Director
Known for: Pirates of the Caribbean: The Curse of the Black Pearl, Sweeney Todd: The Demon Barber of Fleet Street, Pirates of the Caribbean: At World's End
He only really got back after the recording showed that it was the accuser that was doing the bad stuff.
This exactly. He's probably ready to defend himself by saying it was clearly a joke if it ever comes up.
Oh wow I'm reading the statement and it's complete garbage. Why would you invite her to a meeting with your account managers of all people?
You went to shower and at no point offered or suggested sex? But she never claimed that. She claimed that you asked her to join you in the shower. Why don't you answer if you said that? This is some Bill Clinton levels of pedantic bullshit right here.
She's a grown up and we were out in public and she could have left anytime? But if you did NOTHING wrong, and she had no reason to be uncomfortable, why would she want to leave? This is almost a direct admission that her post is true. What kind of moron lawyer wrote this for Joe?
Also, she never claimed you sexually assaulted her. She claimed predatory behavior and verbal assault on your part. Learn to read.
You went to shower and at no point offered or suggested sex? But she never claimed that. She claimed that you asked her to join you in the shower. Why don't you answer if you said that? This is some Bill Clinton levels of pedantic bullshit right here.
She's a grown up and we were out in public and she could have left anytime? But if you did NOTHING wrong, and she had no reason to be uncomfortable, why would she want to leave? This is almost a direct admission that her post is true. What kind of moron lawyer wrote this for Joe?
Also, she never claimed you sexually assaulted her. She claimed predatory behavior and verbal assault on your part. Learn to read.
while I understand he might be upset over the whole thing (either getting ousted as predator or being accused in general), this had a few excessively aggressive paragraphs, considering the situation. But a guy with a big network of support and lawyers can surely show any proof with ease, right? That is, IF there are proof to his claims.
Rare. Very very rare. In return we got Cosby, Weinstein, Spacey just to name a few. If you don't give benefit of the doubt to the victims you get shit like a standing ovation to Polanski and mr.grab her by the pussy for president. If we downplay it all the time with well she is lying, it will remain at the status quo.
The receipts did come out for Mr.Depp, but let me ask you this:
Woman goes home with guy from bar. Witnesses see this. They get home, he starts being not what she expected. She no longer would like to sleep or do anything with him. He rapes her. She reports it. This is all happened in his home so there isn't any CSI type proof that would necessarily suggest rape 100%. Just her word. But the guy is rich and is respectable in the community. He denies rape and says no, it was consensual. This woman just has some beef with me. Guess what happens in this case? The guy gets away with it. The woman is scarred for life. This happens all the time. In this case what would you do? Wait forever for the receipts before you choose to believe someone's side?
Thing is, she never accused him of anything that would require proof. She was just sharing her story, none of it is really provable one way or another. He is doing what he can do do publicly and loudly take a stance of being wrongly accused, because while he likely won't be proven of any wrongdoing, this can still have massive repercussions on his name and career. I'm almost certain a best case scenario in Joes mind is she's too scared to say anything else, and this goes away and is forgotten in a week.
The whole thing is a mess, but it's easy to see why Joe took the steps here he did.
exactly this. I don't think she is saying he sexually assaulted her, I think she is trying to point out what kind of a scumbag he is and that his behavior was not ok. I think by her pointing this out, people, and especially the younger men who follow angry joe can learn that this is NOT OK and that you don't have to suggest sex to come over like a predator or make somebody extremely uncomfortable. I hope more women speak out about these things so the younger generation ( and hopefully the older ones) can learn that this behavior needs to stop. I am going to be honest, I 100 percent believe her and i know from my own experiences that this happens a lot. shit needs to stop
I think we can support all accusers without stoning the accused. I don't believe in playing judge and jury without being deeply involved. I believe accusers are right most of the time. It's not 100% of the time. You can be supportive of a culture where accusers come forward without going any further than that if you lack the definitive evidence to make the decision. This goes for all accusations.
Also men should take note. Just because you don't think you've done anything wrong, doesn't mean you didn't do anything wrong. If a women felt threatened or violated, most of the time that's your fault. That said, I have no fucking clue in this case. These are two general rules I think we can all consider.
Also men should take note. Just because you don't think you've done anything wrong, doesn't mean you didn't do anything wrong. If a women felt threatened or violated, most of the time that's your fault. That said, I have no fucking clue in this case. These are two general rules I think we can all consider.
Here's my issue with this statement,
Firstly, he admits that she was at the hotel with him, he also admits to taking a shower. Now, for me taking a shower while your alone in a hotel room with a girl you've just fucking met speaks volumes. He also doesn't deny that he asked her to take a shower with him, only that sex wasn't mentioned. So I believe the victim here. For me, if he didn't ask her to take a shower with him he would have clearly denied it.
Secondly, he also says he didn't take her phone away, which I'm pretty sure isn't what was alleged here, she said that he asked her to put her phone away, so she still had it. Once again, I believe the victim here.
Then there's the part about her being a grown woman, not needed, of course she could have left, she was with other people, but she probably felt scared or intimidated by the whole situation.
I'm not fully clued up with American law, but I think no law was broken here, what AJ did was sleezy and I believe it was stupid, but what he did was use his power in the industry to fabricate a move on this girl and for that he's a dick.
Firstly, he admits that she was at the hotel with him, he also admits to taking a shower. Now, for me taking a shower while your alone in a hotel room with a girl you've just fucking met speaks volumes. He also doesn't deny that he asked her to take a shower with him, only that sex wasn't mentioned. So I believe the victim here. For me, if he didn't ask her to take a shower with him he would have clearly denied it.
Secondly, he also says he didn't take her phone away, which I'm pretty sure isn't what was alleged here, she said that he asked her to put her phone away, so she still had it. Once again, I believe the victim here.
Then there's the part about her being a grown woman, not needed, of course she could have left, she was with other people, but she probably felt scared or intimidated by the whole situation.
I'm not fully clued up with American law, but I think no law was broken here, what AJ did was sleezy and I believe it was stupid, but what he did was use his power in the industry to fabricate a move on this girl and for that he's a dick.
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Siding with the accuser does not mean you are attacking the person being accused or not giving them a fair chance to share their side of the story/ provide evidence.
Had to respond to that, since I see people saying that choosing a side suddenly means you're not letting the other side be heard/ you've made up your mind and it won't change/ attacking hte other side, and while some people might be doing that, that's not the case for everyone who picks a side.
It's hard for accuser's/ victims to speak up in the first place, and even harder to follow it up, especially when someone like Joe makes their fans aware of this, which sends their fans after the accuser, as well as go as far as threaten legal action/ teh cease and desist order. (I'm not saying it's the wrong move for him to take legal action, i'm saying it makes things harder for the accuser to move forward with their accusation.) So from my perspective, it's better to show support to teh accuser.. That doesn't mean ignore what Joe says/shows to try and prove his innocence, it's just understanding that one side benefits more from the support, and it helps to avoid a situation where the accuser gives up on having her side heard due to being harassed. Personally I do believe the accuser with all the information given at this time from her side and Joe's.n
Either way, I think we can all admit the way Joe is going about this is really bad. The statement alone raises some questions, which makes me wonder to what lengths the lawyer was involved. I can't see any lawyer approving that line about her being a grown woman, and she could leave anytime she wanted. Beyond that, the tweets he's been sending have not been helping, and have pretty much ensured his dedicated fans are going to start attacking her on Twitter.
Had to respond to that, since I see people saying that choosing a side suddenly means you're not letting the other side be heard/ you've made up your mind and it won't change/ attacking hte other side, and while some people might be doing that, that's not the case for everyone who picks a side.
It's hard for accuser's/ victims to speak up in the first place, and even harder to follow it up, especially when someone like Joe makes their fans aware of this, which sends their fans after the accuser, as well as go as far as threaten legal action/ teh cease and desist order. (I'm not saying it's the wrong move for him to take legal action, i'm saying it makes things harder for the accuser to move forward with their accusation.) So from my perspective, it's better to show support to teh accuser.. That doesn't mean ignore what Joe says/shows to try and prove his innocence, it's just understanding that one side benefits more from the support, and it helps to avoid a situation where the accuser gives up on having her side heard due to being harassed. Personally I do believe the accuser with all the information given at this time from her side and Joe's.n
Either way, I think we can all admit the way Joe is going about this is really bad. The statement alone raises some questions, which makes me wonder to what lengths the lawyer was involved. I can't see any lawyer approving that line about her being a grown woman, and she could leave anytime she wanted. Beyond that, the tweets he's been sending have not been helping, and have pretty much ensured his dedicated fans are going to start attacking her on Twitter.
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Yeah sadly I don't see anything else coming from this. Hopefully more people speak up on her behalf.
exactly. am i the only one who would ask someone to wait in the hotel lobby and not in my freaking hotel room while i am taking a shower if I've met the person for the first time. like honestly.
Of course we give the benefit of the doubt to the victim but that specific scenario isn't what's happening here.
We do have witnesses, we have tweets, we have pictures(If Joe is to believed). If one of them can provide this, it'll be a lot easier to work this out. That's why a lot of people are not taking sides right now. We are just waiting for the evidence.
The onus is on Joe to provide the evidence as I imagine he wants this to be over sooner. The more he waits, the more damage this does to his name. That's why I imagine if there are any evidence to disprove the allegations it'll be just a matter of days for it to come out. If this drags out longer than expected then I will seriously doubt his integrity.