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subpar spatula

Refuses to Wash his Ass
Member
Oct 26, 2017
22,080
If you were being accused of something you didn't do, why would you allow your accuser to continue spouting lies to try and defame you? Wouldn't you want that to stop immediately?

Supporting and believing victims does not mean remaining silent if you yourself know that what is being said is not true. What is there to "believe" in that case? Belief implies a lack of knowledge; if you are personally involved in a situation it is no longer a case of believing, but of knowing.

I'm not saying Joe is not guilty of what he's being accused of, but him taking legal action is not at all indicative of his guilt. There's not much else to say about this until more information comes to light.
It isn't indicitive but anyone who supports and believes victims, as he has stated multiple times, he should know at the very least how harmful wielding the law to silence victims is to the movement. He can handle this better than going through the law.

Like, the first step to handling these allegations isn't to silence the other party. To do so so, he acts out that he doesn't care about victims. He literally just showed that when push comes to shove, he isn't up to the task of supporting victims.

Same. I think the forum would be improved by rules about when these types of threads can be posted. What unique discussion is there to be had here?

So women should not share their stories because they cannot prove it without doubt?
 

gattotimo

Member
Oct 28, 2017
1,056
I don't like how he states that he did nothing wrong according to her own story: her story paints an afwul behaviour on his part, so he saying this seems like he doesn't realize how inappropriate that way of interacting was. Anyway he says she posted some tweets during the evening, this should be quite easy to verify (or nullify)
 

SoundLad

Member
Oct 30, 2017
2,249
Same. I think the forum would be improved by rules about when these types of threads can be posted. What unique discussion is there to be had here? Many people are baselessly judging the people involved and each other, often using information that may be obsolete shortly after as new Tweets come out. Making a spectacle out of it seems really tasteless. I'm glad this woman was able to share her story, I hope Joe faces consequences if it is true. I'm not really sure what is being accomplished by us all arguing over who is more trustworthy and why. It's just gossip, which again, is pretty tasteless considering the allegations.
amen
 
May 19, 2020
4,828
Same. I think the forum would be improved by rules about when these types of threads can be posted. What unique discussion is there to be had here? Many people are baselessly judging the people involved and each other, often using information that may be obsolete shortly after as new Tweets come out. Making a spectacle out of it seems really tasteless. I'm glad this woman was able to share her story, I hope Joe faces consequences if it is true. I'm not really sure what is being accomplished by us all arguing over who is more trustworthy and why. It's just gossip, which again, is pretty tasteless considering the allegations.
You understand that it now being a gossip story is an intentional legal strategy and favors the person identified as a predator?
 

Clay

Member
Oct 29, 2017
8,107
So women should not share their stories because they cannot prove it without doubt?

That's what not I'm saying at all.

You understand that it now being a gossip story is an intentional legal strategy and favors the person identified as a predator?

Do you really believe victims want internet communities grabbing bowls of popcorn, eagerly awaiting each new tidbit that comes out to judge each other's reactions over?

Joe's behavior here is creepy at best, predatory at worst. Personally I sympathize with her. Taking someone to your hotel room and inviting them to shower with you is not OK. So know you know my take, based on the information we know now, subject to change in the unlikely event future developments exonerate Joe. Why is this worthy of discussion? I'm not sure.
 

Aurongel

Attempted to circumvent ban with alt account
Banned
Oct 28, 2017
7,065
The part about her being a "grown up" is a huge red flag to me. Comes off like a transparent attempt to shift the blame to the accuser.
I think it's less of an attempt to assign blame and more of an attempt to make it clear that she was able to willingly leave any situation she found herself in that day. Something that Joe claims many others can validate. It's about as airtight a refutation as he can provide given known evidence at this time. That's my interpretation of it anyway.

I'd be interested to see if this is pursued further by either party.
 

robo_e

Banned
Apr 3, 2020
159
Rightfully, your innocent until proven guilty. The burden of proof is on the accuser not the accused.
With what we know right now, No assault took place and that's corroborated by both parties.

edit: sexual assault
 

Poltergust

One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 25, 2017
11,819
Orlando, FL
It isn't indicitive but anyone who supports and believes victims, as he has stated multiple times, he should know at the very least how harmful wielding the law to silence victims is to the movement. He can handle this better than going through the law.

Like, the first step to handling these allegations isn't to silence the other party. To do so so, he acts out that he doesn't care about victims. He literally just showed that when push comes to shove, he isn't up to the task of supporting victims.
I think it's just a matter of perspective here. From Joe's point of view, since he is saying that she is lying, he wouldn't consider her to be a victim of anything.

To us, since we know only what their accounts have said, we can still see her as the victim in what is currently an unresolved matter.
 

subpar spatula

Refuses to Wash his Ass
Member
Oct 26, 2017
22,080
That's what not I'm saying at all.
You actually did:

Same. I think the forum would be improved by rules about when these types of threads can be posted. What unique discussion is there to be had here? Many people are baselessly judging the people involved and each other, often using information that may be obsolete shortly after as new Tweets come out. Making a spectacle out of it seems really tasteless. I'm glad this woman was able to share her story, I hope Joe faces consequences if it is true. I'm not really sure what is being accomplished by us all arguing over who is more trustworthy and why. It's just gossip, which again, is pretty tasteless considering the allegations.

You literally ponder what is being accomplished by discussing these allegations because 1) information becomes obsolete shortly after, and 2) it creates a spectacle.

How do you expect folks to take that?

At what level of the allegation should we begin to discuss an allegation of sexual misconduct?
 
Oct 26, 2017
8,734
Unsurprising that some of the comments here are so biased that they take AngryJoe's side. I really wish people would stop deifying other human beings, because we are capable of doing shit to others.

IMO, cease and desist is super aggressive considering that: 1) it won't stop sponsors because the very idea that you're associated with sexual assault is enough to get dropped, regardless of facts, and 2) It speaks more as an intimidation attempt to silence people in the interest of keeping sponsorships, which is a position of weakness. If AngryJoe knows he's not guilty then I wonder why go to that extent to be so aggressive instead of leveraging a trial against her, and let the facts speak for themselves. I'm not saying AngryJoe is 100% guilty, but it sure doesn't look good for him.

The only other comparable I know if is the Matt Dababneh case where he pushed for a C&D to silence Pamela Lopez because in his eyes, she was more damaging to him than any of the other women that spoke against him. He appealed to get a legislative investigation. What ended up happening was some major schaedenfreude: Lopez's accounts was substantiated by multiple accounts, and that damaged any potential of him continuing to work, so his appeal was denied, he was forced to resign and Lopez finally got the benefit.

If I'm the woman, and I know that the facts are on my side (this is important), I would roll the dice, countersue him and tell him to fuck off with his C&D.
 
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ElectricBlanketFire

What year is this?
Member
Oct 25, 2017
31,819
Same. I think the forum would be improved by rules about when these types of threads can be posted. What unique discussion is there to be had here? Many people are baselessly judging the people involved and each other, often using information that may be obsolete shortly after as new Tweets come out. Making a spectacle out of it seems really tasteless. I'm glad this woman was able to share her story, I hope Joe faces consequences if it is true. I'm not really sure what is being accomplished by us all arguing over who is more trustworthy and why. It's just gossip, which again, is pretty tasteless considering the allegations.

We're discussing a self-proclaimed public figure.
 

Clay

Member
Oct 29, 2017
8,107
You actually did:

Same. I think the forum would be improved by rules about when these types of threads can be posted. What unique discussion is there to be had here? Many people are baselessly judging the people involved and each other, often using information that may be obsolete shortly after as new Tweets come out. Making a spectacle out of it seems really tasteless. I'm glad this woman was able to share her story, I hope Joe faces consequences if it is true. I'm not really sure what is being accomplished by us all arguing over who is more trustworthy and why. It's just gossip, which again, is pretty tasteless considering the allegations.

You literally ponder what is being accomplished by discussing these allegations because 1) information becomes obsolete shortly after, and 2) it creates a spectacle.

How do you expect folks to take that?

At what level of the allegation should we begin to discuss an allegation of sexual misconduct?

I'm not sure how you twist that quote into "Women shouldn't share their stories."

These allegations should absolutely be discussed... by the people involved, by people who are able to bring victims to justice, by people promoted people who have been accused of abuse. It's a good thing that social media is being used to ensure abusers face consequences. But to me it often feels like when allegations come out that there's an initial period where everyone feels obligated to weigh in even though we all have no clue as what happened.

Clearly victims should share their stories. Does every single person who reads their story need to weigh in on the situation? Personally I don't think so.
 

Angst

Member
Oct 27, 2017
3,422
Same. I think the forum would be improved by rules about when these types of threads can be posted. What unique discussion is there to be had here? Many people are baselessly judging the people involved and each other, often using information that may be obsolete shortly after as new Tweets come out. Making a spectacle out of it seems really tasteless. I'm glad this woman was able to share her story, I hope Joe faces consequences if it is true. I'm not really sure what is being accomplished by us all arguing over who is more trustworthy and why. It's just gossip, which again, is pretty tasteless considering the allegations.
Its just he said she said stuff. We don't know what happened, it doesn't have to do with us. If joe did it, i hope he gets nailed for it. If he didn't, i hope he doesn't. Either way we have nothing to ad but speculation and im not sure that's really constructive. I basically just wanted to say i agree with you.
 

KG

Banned
Oct 12, 2018
1,598
Remember, Joe is a gun nut, may also be a lgbtqphobe, congratulated on jontron coming back so racism doesn't bother him much, had someone like that bearded guy(del?) on his show many times who is also an alleged predator from what I read on this forum. All this speaks to his character.
 

subpar spatula

Refuses to Wash his Ass
Member
Oct 26, 2017
22,080
I'm not sure how you twist that quote into "Women shouldn't share their stories."

These allegations should absolutely be discussed... by the people involved, by people who are able to bring victims to justice, by people promoted people who have been accused of abuse. It's a good thing that social media is being used to ensure abusers face consequences. But to me it often feels like when allegations come out that there's an initial period where everyone feels obligated to weigh in even though we all have no clue as what happened.

Clearly victims should share their stories. Does every single person who reads their story need to weigh in on the situation? Personally I don't think so.
The people who can bring justice generally don't. The people involved have an incredible power imbalance due to how much money Joe has.

Like, do you not get that public discourse is literally the only way these victims see any kind of justice? And you want to make it private between the accused and the victim + a legal system that doesn't give a shit? And then you say new rules to when these threads can be posted?

Yeah. I know what you're saying.
 
May 19, 2020
4,828
That's what not I'm saying at all.

Do you really believe victims want internet communities grabbing bowls of popcorn, eagerly awaiting each new tidbit that comes out to judge each other's reactions over?

Joe's behavior here is creepy at best, predatory at worst. Personally I sympathize with her. Taking someone to your hotel room and inviting them to shower with you is not OK. So know you know my take, based on the information we know now, subject to change in the unlikely event future developments exonerate Joe. Why is this worthy of discussion? I'm not sure.
For better or worse it's up to moderators to decide if a subject is worthy of discussion. I believe this is getting lost in the weeds though. I continue to hold to the idea that the gossip story strategy benefits Joe because all he has to say is "nope creeper stuff didn't happen and fuck you i'll sue" so the onus is back on the woman to prove her claims without any shadow of a doubt, which is why the tough guy legal chest-pounding usually works. It's all very obvious and sad.
 

McScroggz

The Fallen
Jan 11, 2018
5,971
On the one hand I don't think we should avoid these discussions because it's one avenue to allow the victim/accuser to be heard. On the other hand there is always an immediate rush to judgement by some and the discourse becomes a toxic screaming match between those that want to wait for more facts and those that feel like doing so is wrong in some way. Honestly I don't know what to do.

I just hope we can find the truth with this and the myriad of others so these people, usually women, can find some amount of justice and this can be less of a societal issue. I'm not going to castigate Angry Joe or any of these other people because I don't know what happened and I'm not going to question accusers. That's not my place.

Hopefully these threads, most of which I won't enter, remain civil.
 

The Inventor

Member
Oct 28, 2017
47
This.
If you accuse me of being me a sexual predator when I'm not, you can be sure your ass will get sued.
No weak C&D, I'm taking you to court no matter what

Maybe before the whole process begins and because he claims to be innocent, that's the way to somehow "pause" this thing? Just guessing.
Of course this has to go to court to clarify what really happened ASAP.
 

Grimace McRib

Member
Oct 27, 2017
426
Cincinnati, OH
I've always enjoyed Joe's content, sue me ERA. This is ultimately disappointing (I'm not a Trump supporter not even sure why I have to state that). I believe her and that's what makes this a little disheartening, just saying.
 

spineduke

Moderator
Oct 25, 2017
8,745
Can't help but see him lying by ommission.

"In her post she claims that she believed that I was pressuring her for sex. This is completely untrue. I never suggested sex, I never spoke about sex. I never touched her inappropriately. She is a grown up and we were out in public and she could have left at any time. I was just trying to help someone who had expressed interest in the industry and my show. I never imagined that this could be a bad thing."

He never offered sex, he offered a shower.
 

Malakym

One Winged Slayer
Member
Nov 17, 2019
357
The title of the article that the thread is about is "my interaction with AngryJoe". That line is not a call to attack or a demand for punishment and compensation, it's an experience. You could switch that noun to something totally innocuous like "my interaction with a soda vending machine" and it would still work.

Imagine if people reacted the same way that they did with this experience that they did to others. Say that you were to tell the story of how you got beaten up in high school, and the listener says "I'm here to support you and I'm totally willing to believe you, but first I have to see some evidence that you got beat up and get a statement from the bully."

I don't have a whole lot to add to the discussion - my time watching any of his content ended a while ago when his reviews started shifting to this boring roundtable discussion format rather than the more personal, labour of love feel of his older stuff. Also, people have already said what I might have way more eloquently than I would have.

What I do want to say is that I've become uncomfortably aware that until now, my stance on believing the accusers in these situations has been more a combination of logic (if these women have everything to lose and nothing to gain from making these accusations, why would they be making it up?) and sympathy as a fellow minority. I really wanted to signal boost this post though, because seeing things put this way snapped things together for me in a visceral way. Like, no shit you wouldn't ask for proof in that scenario right?! Even if you personally hadn't ever talked about something bad that happened in your past to someone before, you must have at least seen that scenario play out in some media you've consumed in your lifetime. And even if the response winds up being unsympathetic, its invariably because a) the situation is being played for laughs and/or b) the confident is clearly supposed to be thought of as a jackass.

Anyway I just wanted to thank you for this, and I hope at least one "waiting for more evidence" person sees this and considers that maybe that isn't the enlightened galaxy-brain take they think it is.
 

Clay

Member
Oct 29, 2017
8,107
The people who can bring justice generally don't. The people involved have an incredible power imbalance due to how much money Joe has.

Like, do you not get that public discourse is literally the only way these victims see any kind of justice? And you want to make it private between the accused and the victim + a legal system that doesn't give a shit? And then you say new rules to when these threads can be posted?

Yeah. I know what you're saying.

I totally understand that. Like I said, I'm glad that social media is having at least one positive impact on society, it's heartening to see racists, abusers, etc. actually facing consequences for their actions in a way they never would have in the past.

But in cases like this the victim will see justice when Joe loses sponsors, when he's no longer invited to cons, when people unsubscribe to his channel, when he's denied new products to review. I don't see how us, as a forum, squabbling over which team we're on fits into the picture.

I don't want allegations like this to be private. Honestly this is something I've been thinking a lot about in the last couple days and I'm not entirely sure what I feel the best way to handle it is. I absolutely think threads like this should be made, since, as stated above, I understand that the public being aware is important because the public at large play a huge role in ensuring abusers are punished.

But I just don't see the value in those initial few hours or days when everyone is waiting for the next juicy detail to emerge so that they can weigh in on whether it corroborates the views they've already posted. How many posts in this thread are variations of "Oh look at that, he sent a cease and desist, he wouldn't do that if he weren't guilty, I knew it" or "That really makes sense he would send a cease and desist, it's the most sensible thing to do in a situation like this and the language used in his statement makes me even more confident that, while he certainly came across as creepy, he did not cross the line into harassment/ assault."

That's what I find tasteless. Reading this thread it really comes across to me that most people are more worried about being on the right side then seeing justice served.

On the other hand, I do completely understand that this situation is far better than days when victims had no avenue to be heard, so I don't know, maybe this is how it should be.
 

robo_e

Banned
Apr 3, 2020
159
User Banned (Permanent): Dismissive Commentary and Excusing Bigotry Over Multiple Posts; Account in Junior Phase
Remember, Joe is a gun nut, may also be a lgbtqphobe, congratulated on jontron coming back so racism doesn't bother him much, had someone like that bearded guy(del?) who is also an alleged predator from what I read on this forum. All this speaks to his character.
Because he's a "gun nut" that makes him a lgbtqphobe? Cmon, that type of thinking needs to stop in 2020. Cant speak on the jontron situation but I've seen his back in forth with trump supporters on twitter, dude isn't racist. Stop making assumptions on people you don't know because when you make assumptions you're just making an ass of yourself.
And your right the people you surround yourself does say a lot about you.

I'm not defending Joe of what he's being accused of, I'm addressing this comment specifically.
 

subpar spatula

Refuses to Wash his Ass
Member
Oct 26, 2017
22,080
I totally understand that. Like I said, I'm glad that social media is having at least one positive impact on society, it's heartening to see racists, abusers, etc. actually facing consequences for their actions in a way they never would have in the past.

But in cases like this the victim will see justice when Joe loses sponsors, when he's no longer invited to cons, when people unsubscribe to his channel, when he's denied new products to review. I don't see us squabbling over which team we're on fits into the picture.

I don't want allegations like this to be private. Honestly this is something I've been thinking a lot about in the last couple days and I'm not entirely sure what I feel the best way to handle it is. I absolutely think threads like this should be made, since, as stated above, I understand that the public being aware is important because the public at large play a huge role in ensuring abusers are punished.

But I just don't see the value in those initial few hours or days when everyone is waiting for the next juicy detail to emerge so that they can weigh in on whether it corroborates the views they've already posted. How many posts in this thread are variations of "Oh look at that, he sent a cease and desist, he wouldn't do that if he weren't guilty, I knew it" or "That really makes sense he would send a cease and desist, it's the most sensible thing to do in a situation like this and the language used in his statement makes me even more confident that, while he certainly came across as creepy, he did not cross the line into harassment/ assault."

That's what I find tasteless. Reading this thread it really comes across to me that most people are more worried about being on the right side then seeing justice served.

On the other hand, I do completely understand that this situation is far better than days when victims had no avenue to be heard, so I don't know, maybe this is how it should be.
I'm glad you've improved your position from your previous posts on this page.
 

Deleted member 25042

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 29, 2017
2,077
He claims there are other witnesses but where are they? Where are the receipts?

This + the alleged pictures she took and posted on Twitter (I think?) to refute the claim that he took her phone
When you've been accused of being a sexual predator and you have receipts to the contrary, I think it'd be a good idea to use them.

But instead it's the classic "shut your mouth or else..." C&D...
Which I understand is something any lawyer would advise but still, I'd personally be livid to be wrongly accused like that and I'd want to make sure the other party faces consequences.

All of this still makes me think that the initial story is what it is.
Can't see what she would get from lying.
 

Clay

Member
Oct 29, 2017
8,107
I'm glad you've improved your position from your previous posts on this page.

My position hasn't changed, though my earlier posts definitely did not fully detail my thoughts on the situation.

Talking about these issues online is so hard because it's basically impossible to tell if anyone is arguing in good or bad faith. I appreciate you taking the time to get where I'm coming from.
 

Metal Slugger

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
1,424
St. Cloud, MN
Reads like he's had that response written up for years. What a piece of shit.

901.png
 

TCG276

Member
Dec 17, 2017
520
Something that is really bugging me about many comments in this thread is the idea that an accused person doesn't deserve to have their say. Peoples lives on both sides of these stories can be completely ruined. This is a serious accusation that needs to be investigated. Fuck the people who assume a victim is lying and fuck the people who assume the accused is automatically guilty. These people don't give a shit about justice.
 

laser

Member
Feb 17, 2018
310

Messofanego

Member
Oct 25, 2017
26,101
UK
Because he's a "gun nut" that makes him a lgbtqphobe? Cmon, that type of thinking needs to stop in 2020. Cant speak on the jontron situation but I've seen his back in forth with trump supporters on twitter, dude isn't racist. Stop making assumptions on people you don't know because when you make assumptions you're just making an ass of yourself.
And your right the people you surround yourself does say a lot about you.

I'm not defending Joe of what he's being accused of, I'm addressing this comment specifically.
SPOILER clip where he says a transphobic slur that is said in his comments section without censoring it. The way he says it so casually makes me think he's said it before privately or even publicly. Much like when PewDiePie would say the N word casually.
 

subpar spatula

Refuses to Wash his Ass
Member
Oct 26, 2017
22,080
My position hasn't changed, though my earlier posts definitely did not fully detail my thoughts on the situation.

Talking about these issues online is so hard because it's basically impossible to tell if anyone is arguing in good or bad faith. I appreciate you taking the time to get where I'm coming from.
If your position hasn't changed... then it's still problematic if you want the allegations to be discussed between the accused, victim, and legal parties. If your position hasn't changed then you contradicted yourself by saying these threads should be made but then my original post quoting you was about you stating:

"I think the forum would be improved by rules about when these types of threads can be posted. What unique discussion is there to be had here? Many people are baselessly judging the people involved and each other, often using information that may be obsolete shortly after as new Tweets come out."

It just sounds like you want this to be handled "better" by everyone which is actually working in favor of abusers.

Also: as a FYI, waiting a few hours or a few days is kind of funny considering it took him 2 and a half days to have a cease and desist sent.
 

Cyclonesweep

Banned
Oct 29, 2017
7,690
Because he's a "gun nut" that makes him a lgbtqphobe? Cmon, that type of thinking needs to stop in 2020. Cant speak on the jontron situation but I've seen his back in forth with trump supporters on twitter, dude isn't racist. Stop making assumptions on people you don't know because when you make assumptions you're just making an ass of yourself.
And your right the people you surround yourself does say a lot about you.

I'm not defending Joe of what he's being accused of, I'm addressing this comment specifically.
He never said being a gun but makes him that. He said he is a gun but and may also be lgbtqphobe.
 

FormatCompatible

One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 25, 2017
12,071
The exact kind of response I was expecting this dude to make, including threatening her with a C&D to try to shut her (or anyone that might have similar bad situations with him really) up. "She is free to talk about me, except she is not free to talk about me".
 

Astral

Member
Oct 27, 2017
28,022
It sounds to me like he chose his words VERY carefully when describing the shower situation. He's specifically saying that he didn't suggest, mention, or offer sex. But her exact words were that he asked her to join. It bothers me that he didn't specifically say this. Also, the "she's an adult" part was gross.
 

Clay

Member
Oct 29, 2017
8,107
If your position hasn't changed... then it's still problematic if you want the allegations to be discussed between the accused, victim, and legal parties. If your position hasn't changed then you contradicted yourself by saying these threads should be made but then my original post quoting you was about you stating:

"I think the forum would be improved by rules about when these types of threads can be posted. What unique discussion is there to be had here? Many people are baselessly judging the people involved and each other, often using information that may be obsolete shortly after as new Tweets come out."

It just sounds like you want this to be handled "better" by everyone which is actually working in favor of abusers.

Also: as a FYI, waiting a few hours or a few days is kind of funny considering it took him 2 and a half days to have a cease and desist sent.

Like I said before, I've been thinking about this over the past few days and honestly don't know how best to handle it.

I understand how silencing discussion could work in favor of abusers, but again, I can't imagine when women share they're stories that they're doing so in order to allow communities to argue with each other over who should be believed.

If an initial thread was made that detailed "Joe was accused of sexual harassment, he stated nothing for a few days, then published a letter written by his legal team where he revealed he was attempting to silence his accuser with a C&D" I think discourse would be a lot more informed and constructive than everyone following along like its a tabloid story or something.

Of course there's really no way to moderate that. There's always potential for new information that could change minds to come out at any time. I'm not saying I have answers to how exactly this should be handled. But I doubt anyone is going to read this thread a month from now and conclude that it had a positive impact for any party involved.

What exactly is "justice served" if her allegation is true?

I'm not sure exactly, but as I stated above, I would not be surprised if he lost subs, lost subscribers, is not invited to industry events, etc. if it comes out that he has repeatedly put women in situation like this, and if this letter is his only defense of his actions in this situation (as others have said it's pretty damning that he seemingly tries to shift focus away from things he can't deny that his invitation to join him in the shower).
 

Lobster Roll

signature-less, now and forever
Member
Sep 24, 2019
34,305
It sounds to me like he chose his words VERY carefully when describing the shower situation. He's specifically saying that he didn't suggest, mention, or offer sex. But her exact words were that he asked her to join. It bothers me that he didn't specifically say this. Also, the "she's an adult" part was gross.
Ha ha - come up to my hotel room with me, it'll just be a second, nothing weird about that, just until the table is ready
Ha ha - oh whoops gonna go get naked in here and I guess I'll just take a shower now, completely normal with a stranger in my room
Ha ha - you can join if you want BUT OF COURSE it's just a joke though but just putting it out there ... but maybe? Ah just joking ... but am I?
Ha ha - you can also sit next to me on my bed, as humans do
Ha ha - come closer to me on the bed to view photos on my phone
Ha ha - let me take a photo of you in the bed with me cause I'm a funny guy

Oh what the fuck? At no point did I say that I wanted to have SEX with you. What is wrong with you?
 

subpar spatula

Refuses to Wash his Ass
Member
Oct 26, 2017
22,080
Like I said before, I've been thinking about this over the past few days and honestly don't know how best to handle it.

I understand how silencing discussion could work in favor of abusers, but again, I can't imagine when women share they're stories that they're doing so in order to allow communities to argue with each other over who should be believed.

If an initial thread was made that detailed "Joe was accused of sexual harassment, he stated nothing for a few days, then published a letter written by his legal team where he revealed he was attempting to silence his accuser with a C&D" I think discourse would be a lot more informed and constructive than everyone following along like its a tabloid story or something.

Of course there's really no way to moderate that. There's always potential for new information that could change minds to come out at any time. I'm not saying I have answers to how exactly this should be handled. But I doubt anyone is going to read this thread a month from now and conclude that it had a positive impact for any party involved.
The cease and desist would shut her down. She cannot go out and say, "I accused him, he had his lawyers sent to me, and that's what happened" cause she'd get sued and dragged through the legal system.

Your method means literally there is no discussion, the allegation disappears, and a victim is silenced by the legal system.