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VariantX

Member
Oct 25, 2017
16,890
Columbia, SC
EA isn't going to fix the game. If 6 years got you that mission variety, weapons, stories, AI, endgame missions, locations - you are looking at 2020 Holidays to get to the point where Division 2 is going to get on Day 1.

Keep in mind, there is a pile of games which got their support axed by EA (Andromeda, NFS Payback, Battlefront II and probably BFV). So between the incompetence of Bioware to get the game into a good state after 6 years AND EA's lack of interest in growing their games - what is a realistic scenario?

Say what you will about UbiSoft, but they tend to let their devs fix their games. The likes of For Honor or Division would have never happened under today's EA i feel. I'm still amazed that BF4 got the fixes it did even if it's EA's premier franchise.
 

Epcott

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,279
US, East Coast
Heh, those %0 stats for loot. I saw that in the betas and thought "Surely this is just a beta bug, why even mention a %0 increase?"

And Joe didn't even mention the biggest issue... you can't join a friends game that is already in play (unless they fixed that after beta).
 

Garlador

Banned
Oct 30, 2017
14,131
Of course, if it were up to Era, BioWare would get shut down. Seriously, it's like vultures flying around the game.
What rubbish.

The vast majority of us LOVE Bioware. We WANT quality Bioware games that equal to or exceed their prior games, the ones that we all fell in love with. We WANT more of those experiences, we WANT more trend-setting games in new worlds. We WANT the games to be polished, satisfying, complete, engaging, and bursting full of great content, variety, and the classic Bioware charm we've all come to expect.

Anthem is not that game.

Calling a spade a spade isn't rooting for it to fail. I WANTED Anthem to release and be their next instant classic. I'm extremely disappointed it comes up short - not JUST in Bioware's own pantheon of titles, but in the looter shooter genre as a whole. It's simply not remotely close to the level of quality we expect.

That's not a personal potshot at Bioware; that's just stating the ardent truth. It fails to measure up, and I still hope they pull it around and I REALLY hope EA gives Bioware the chance to fix things.

We WORRY because EA doesn't typically allow that. Andromeda released with far fewer problems, had a better reception, and it outright stated they had plans to add DLC and content to the game... only for EA to cut their losses, cancel all those plans, and fold the studio into other parts of the company. Why WOULDN'T we speculate on the future of Anthem and Bioware when it has a worse reception and EA - on the week of Anthem's RELEASE - announced they were gutting several of their studios?

Can Anthem be salvaged? Sure. Will EA allow them the time, money, resources, and ability to do so? That is not so guaranteed.
 

Iucidium

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,046
Just watched it.
Do people buy this purely beceuse it is wrapped in nice paper?

Game deserves every flak it gets.
Yeah I'm done buying games at full price that have the "promise" of being good. I can't believe this is what the gaming industry has been reduced to. Waiting for the next update or patch, etc.

Division 2 / Destiny 3 / whatever else of these Looter-Shooter/MMO-lite games in the future are never getting day 1 purchases from me.
If it helps, Division 2 has a hell of a lot more endgame on top of a decent sized campaign.

How do you know so much about what is in the division 2? Is the game out?
Massive released an infographic AND a small trailer detailing the expanded endgame, and they haven't even revealed classified/raid/exotic sets or weapons yet.
 

BossAttack

Member
Oct 27, 2017
43,007
I have had SWTOR installed for ages but never played it. Can I play the "good" stories (is there a list of them?) without the premium sub? I know that I can play them, just not sure if it will get grindy or something when playing it without subscription.

It won't, gameplay will simply get repetitive as its an MMO. They basically "fixed" the game so it, especially the main storylines, can be played like a SP RPG. You pretty much won't even have to do any side quests, yet will still level up at the appropriate pace doing just the main story missions. That was not possible at launch, you had to grind to be leveled enough to keep doing your story missions.

Best Storylines (IMO):
-Imperial Agent
-Jedi Knight (is basically KOTOR 3)
-Sith Warrior
-Smuggler (if you like a good comedy)


-Sith Inquisitor
-Jedi Consular
-Bounty Hunter
-Republic Trooper
 

Orangecoke

Member
Jan 14, 2019
1,812
Fair, and I had moments when I felt like this while playing Anthem -- Where blasting stuff with my robot was making me feel good about the game despite how much I hated certain aspects/decisions -- But ultimately the game just gets in its own way constantly. If they had a game where you were never forced into the single player first person mode that feels completely detached from the multiplayer aspect and instead just focused on the robot action and the loot I'd probably like it quite a bit. I don't want or need the story to be good. Just give me more things to shoot and more cool loot and less bullshit in the way.

This. The game gets in its own way constantly. It's a hassle to get to the funnest parts, and the payoffs (loot etc) are a let down
 

Deleted member 1759

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
3,582
Europe
It won't, gameplay will simply get repetitive as its an MMO. They basically "fixed" the game so it, especially the main storylines, can be played like a SP RPG. You pretty much won't even have to do any side quests, yet will still level up at the appropriate pace doing just the main story missions. That was not possible at launch, you had to grind to be leveled enough to keep doing your story missions.

Best Storylines (IMO):
-Imperial Agent
-Jedi Knight (is basically KOTOR 3)
-Sith Warrior
-Smuggler (if you like a good comedy)


-Sith Inquisitor
-Jedi Consular
-Bounty Hunter
-Republic Trooper
That's good to hear.

And thanks for the suggestions!
 

Newlove

Member
Oct 28, 2017
617
England
I feel so bad for the developers who put years of their life into these games only to be torn down like it's the worst thing on the planet because not all the gameplay systems gel. Really puts into perspective how important QA and gameplay system designers are. Puts you off the thought of working on AAA games.
 

Lyng

Editor at Popaco.dk
Verified
Oct 27, 2017
2,206
I have had SWTOR installed for ages but never played it. Can I play the "good" stories (is there a list of them?) without the premium sub? I know that I can play them, just not sure if it will get grindy or something when playing it without subscription.

Yes you can. But without sub you will have to grind a lot of sidequests. With sub you can just stick to story. Imperial Agent is very much worth it.
 

DarkFlame92

Member
Nov 10, 2017
5,644
Joe was pretty good on this one. Fuck unfinished GaaS games that get better as time progresses.

Ok you say that you'll add more content and polish and fix it as the time goes on ? Then don't sell it to me at full price
 

psynergyadept

Member
Oct 26, 2017
15,643
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ADVANTAGE.

Bioware, pls.

I fucking can't!!!!!! LMAO!!!
 

Davey Cakes

Member
Oct 27, 2017
3,688
Massachusetts
It's bizarre that a game can look this good and appear to have really solid gameplay but end up terrible due to story, progression, and launch content.

With enough time, I bet Anthem could've been amazing. The foundation is there but it looks like a large portion of the game is half-assed. That must be a massive blow to the dev team, which I'm sure worked hard trying to make the game viable.
 

TheBaldwin

Member
Feb 25, 2018
8,285
Keep in mind, there is a pile of games which got their support axed by EA (Andromeda, NFS Payback, Battlefront II and probably BFV). So between the incompetence of Bioware to get the game into a good state after 6 years AND EA's lack of interest in growing their games - what is a realistic scenario?

Nah battlefront 2 is still getting support and so is BFV. I know we love to dogpile ea but lets keep fscts straight. Also by no support for andromeda you mean that there wasnt any support in regards to paid dlc.



"Remember, this is Bioware."

Why do people keep saying that like it's somehow supposed to give the company who made this more respect? Yeah, exactly, it's Bioware, this checks out completely then how it turned out. They haven't done anything significant for the past one and a half decade.

"Makers of Mass Effect"
A game series that started out strong then completely flopped over when trying to pay off the story.
"Knights of the Old Republic"
A game series that was better when another studio made it and tried to actually do something interesting with the Star Wars property.
"And Dragon Age."
A series that started off as a light Baldur's Gate and ended as a watered down action game.

None of what's going on is surprising anymore, so why do people get surprised? It's like when they come and cry that another Bethesda game was boring and bad to play and I have to go "Yeah, exactly, just like the previous one and the one before that!" Fallout 76 was a natural evolution of the series since clearly people didn't give a toss about story and quests because they preferred FO3 and 4 over New Vegas.

I mean alot of this is your own opinion, one that both sales and critical reception to all the games you mentioned comtradict you, making you the minority and very 'THE GAMES WERE ALWAYS BAD, YOUR INFERIOR GAME TASTE JUST DIDNT LET YOU SEE '

All 3 mass effect games are rated high, with the first 2 being considered some of the greatest games of all time. Same woth dragon age, baldurs gate, kotor, and with fans of TOR and jade empire.

Lets not even get on to your bethesda point, depsite each of there games also selling 15+ mil plus and being loved and adored by people worldwide.
 

mutantmagnet

Member
Oct 28, 2017
12,401
Can't stand this dude. Literally cannot sit through more than :30 seconds of listening to him. He reminds me of my annoying relatives that live in Long Island.
Let me guess. You live in Staten Island.

I'm shocked how so many weapon stats aren't visibly different. That suggests to me Bioware fine tuned the game so much they don't want to risk creating gear imbalances.


So many weapons sharing the exact same stats screams a very specific set of priorities that makes a ton of sense in single player campaign but as others have pointed out this sells itself as a loot game. Misplaced priorities are seen all over the place in that lengthy review.
 

Orangecoke

Member
Jan 14, 2019
1,812
Thing is, if they had the resources to overhaul and fix the game, their 90 day roadmap wouldn't already be anemic and "too little, too late" feeling. No meaningful new content until April/May means the player population will vanish...and EA analytics will tell them "stop putting money into this, it's not worth it".
 

Garlador

Banned
Oct 30, 2017
14,131
I feel so bad for the developers who put years of their life into these games only to be torn down like it's the worst thing on the planet because not all the gameplay systems gel. Really puts into perspective how important QA and gameplay system designers are. Puts you off the thought of working on AAA games.
It's not really AAA games specific.

It takes a village to make any sort of media these days. Thousands of people worked to make the poorly received Justice League movie. Thousands of people worked on TV shows that never made it past pilot episodes or their first seasons. Countless employees worked on games that bombed like Haze or Lair. Even great games like Okami and Psychonauts didn't sell well. Indie games might even be worse, considering how flooded the market is and how you need either very strong word-of-mouth or a marketing deal to stand out from the crowd.

That's just the nature of creative, collaborative work.

NOBODY sets out to make a bad game or bad movie. There are clearly plenty of talented people at Bioware churning out great art, animation, mechanics, UI, etc. You do your job to the best of your ability and hand it off to the next group, hoping that all these mechanics gel. In this case, it didn't happen.

But failure in game development is pretty common. Many games go through drafts and iterations before finding their sweet spot that players enjoy engaging with. Sometimes, the reality is the time, money, or talent just isn't there to make that happen. Bioware KNEW all these issues existed before the game came out, so the reception probably isn't a surprise. They've been crunching to get last-ditched-effort patches up "day 1" to address some of their biggest known issues. Releasing at this time is out of their hands, but as my game instructor told me, a project is "done" when the money runs out or the deadline hits. ALL games are a balance of compromises, sometimes cutting out some of your favorite features to ensure a quality product ships on time in the best condition it can. You only have a finite amount of time and resources, and this looks to be a case where the balance of the final product was simply out of whack.
 

-PXG-

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
6,186
NJ
From what I undestand of project flows, the model used by EA for their companies (the waterfall) has a critical flaw in that, if a fundamental design issue occurs relatively late in the cycle and cannot be repaired, everything has to be dumped and restarted from scratch (pretty much feels like they did). Which is why I joked that Bioware should adopt AGILE instead, in that "what would you do..." thread.

That's insane and so horribly inefficient if true.
 

Heshinsi

Member
Oct 25, 2017
16,093
Oh no, those terrible Andromeda style NPCs that stand around.


A good portion of the loading screen effect in Anthem is due to having a really bad inventory system. You can't switch on the fly, so you have to go back to the hub anytime you want to do things, which involves several loading screens.
Whoever at BioWare who came up with this system needs to be prevented from ever making a contribution to an inventory system ever again. The fact that I have to keep going back and forth to the stupid forge to change gear is the biggest gripe with the game for me.

Last night we were doing a stronghold and I outfitted the new masterwork gun I received. Except when we dropped into the mission, my previous gun was still in slot 2.

"Hey, my new gun didn't show up properly. Can we go back to the forge?!"

NO!
 

Devilgunman

Member
Oct 27, 2017
7,456
Man, this is his best review yet. Fifty minutes well spent. His last criticism might be the most baffling thing about Anthem: how could a game like this have no player's attribute? Like, no stats screen at all?? Wth.
 
Feb 3, 2018
1,130
I'm really getting curious about sales...

Me too and also getting curious to what the reponse from EA will be if the game fails to meet sales expectations no way is EA gonna allow Bioware to comitt even more resources to a game that failed to meet expectations.

And honestly looking at their roadmap it was more of the same more world events which players are already bored off and harder difficulty for existing missions.
 

DmckPower

Member
Feb 1, 2018
2,266
This is so heartbreaking.

The fucking iron man mechanics look amazing. Could've been amazing with a mass-effect like story focus.

But now those great flying mechanics will likely never be used in a good game.
 

ItIsOkBro

Happy New Year!!
The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
9,515
it's like they straight up forgot to design a game until the very last minute.

they created a beautiful world, amazing flying, component shooting...but what do you do with these mechanics and why? that feels very thrown together.
 

aember

Member
Oct 26, 2017
1,026
And Joe didn't even mention the biggest issue... you can't join a friends game that is already in play (unless they fixed that after beta).
You must've had some big bugs with join in progress, cause it worked fine for me back in beta. And it was needed due to the 95%.

Haven't had an issue that'd force me to attemp it now, so I can't comment on that.
 
Dec 4, 2017
3,097
That's insane and so horribly inefficient if true.
It's inefficient, but it has the considerable advantage that you can coordinate large to huge teams using it. Especially if said teams are spread over different time zones, since you use a single project timetable that can extend up to months in advance, as opposed to AGILE's two-weeks-max sprints (which often necessitate realignmnent, despite their relatively short turnaround).
 
Oct 27, 2017
6,960
Also by no support for andromeda you mean that there wasnt any support in regards to paid dlc.

By "axed support to Andromeda" I mean there was 6 months of cobbling fixes for the game while the studio was dissolving, and after that, it was just done.

I am not looking for the token support. If the game prides itself as a true service game, giving all the season pass content for free, I expect it to be a full game, in a satisfactory state, with the future support of new content. EA has shown multiple times that the amount of support is proportional to the expected value in microtransactions, which casts a huge shadow for the title like Anthem, which will take a year before it even reaches the 80+ state.

I would love for BFV to prove me wrong, as it is the game I am playing, give me the equivalent of BF1 Premium in its lifetime.
 

Orangecoke

Member
Jan 14, 2019
1,812
They are in a really bad spot now IMO. They need to fix Anthem, make DA4 and keep SWTOR running...all while their analytics will most likely show poor player retention, shrinking player base, (TBD) monetization, and even likely exhaustion and low morale in the staff. And thing is, it's hard to get players to come back later.

Division started out with very strong initial sales, but even after pouring months of fixes and content into it, it's not clear how strong of a player base they managed to rebuild.

And both DIv and Destiny 1 were trying to recover in very different times - before live service competition was through the roof with games like Fortnite (among many others).

It seems grim.
 

Admiral Woofington

The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
14,892
For those considering getting into SWTOR I would highly recommend the premium sub. At least for a few months. The sub helps with not having to really grind any side content and just largely focus on the main missions. And if you want to play it primarily as a traditional Bioware single player rpg with your own party, then you really want to avoid the more mmoy stuff.
 

Lump

One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 25, 2017
16,034
I am 53 hours into the main game with an endgame-decked Storm (494 level). I enjoy the base game. It just feels nice to play flying around (using a controller on PC) and kill things. I just enjoy the loop, as basic as it is.

There are some things I just can't believe exist in a game like this after 7 years of development and after releasing in 2019:

No stat pages. Holy fucking shit, this is crazy. I can't see my total health, shield, damage, reload time, gear recharge, anything - it's all fucking guesswork. That's absolutely goddamned wild. People complain that they can't understand modifier descriptions, but 90% of those are just a symptom of us not being able to see how they modify our total stats.

The forced Tarsis. Start up the game, then spend 45 seconds waddling up to your suit just to get into a loading animation of choosing how you want to play. Don't forget to go get some contracts. If I could replace everything important with Tarsis with just a menu, I'd feel like my time is halfway respected. My friends are waiting for me, don't make me waddle to npcs and skip some dialog just to move on and get ready to do actual gameplay.

GM1 is a decent difficulty level. GM2 and GM3 are head-scratching bullet sponge borefests that don't offer exclusive loot, just more frequent drops of the same top tier loot. Well it doesn't take a mathematician to figure out that a mode that drops 2x as much good loot but takes 4x longer to finish isn't worth it whatsoever. Even if you're geared the fuck out, you might as well stomp GM1 multiple times over than die of boredom unloading 2000 bullets into the same armored elite on GM2. And GM3 is the most ridiculous sponging I have ever seen in a game. There should videos on how long it takes to kill the most basic of enemies on GM3 in freeplay.

It took me until endgame to get an interesting and unique weapon - one at does a good chunk of lihghtning damage 33% of the time. It's great for ruining shields as a Storm. It boggles my mind that there wasn't a chance for interesting guns like this during the level up process.

If the game got out of its own way, actually presented basic stat information, and made a effort toward respecting my time, I'd be much less frustrated and ranty because I'm a simple guy and I like the straightforward loop. I'll keep playing it for now because I enjoy it despite the glaring oversights and boggling design decisions.
 

JetmanJay

Member
Nov 1, 2017
3,505
<Sigh> Well, had an unopened copy of this game that just came in the mail. Think I'll just send it back and put that credit towards MK11 or something. I'll come back to it when it's $15 and has more and better content. :(
 

s3ltz3r

Banned
Nov 12, 2017
1,149
After his awful Alita review, Joe lost credibility with me..."the love story got in the way of the overall love story". You're the real heartless robot, Joe!

At least other reviewers agree with him. Still gonna watch it.
 

Dekuman

Member
Oct 27, 2017
19,026
After his awful Alita review, Joe lost credibility with me..."the love story got in the way of the overall love story". You're the real heartless robot, Joe!

At least other reviewers agree with him. Still gonna watch it.

Roger Ebert gave Gladiator a terrible review and It was one of my favorite movies of the 2000s. Still respect and watched/read his reviews and took them into account because the body of his work was excellent.

I don't think a reviewer can agree with you 100%, they have different tastes. But people are too quick to dismiss reviews they don't agree with because they said something off base in some other review. It's kind of a selective cherry picking that's kind of corrosive to discussions.
 

cognizant

Member
Dec 19, 2017
13,756
I feel so bad for the developers who put years of their life into these games only to be torn down like it's the worst thing on the planet because not all the gameplay systems gel. Really puts into perspective how important QA and gameplay system designers are. Puts you off the thought of working on AAA games.

I want to know what the game director went through, what their thought process was, and whether they were in a situation beyond their control or not. Devs can only follow orders, but someone up top has to have the overriding vision for the game, the tone and intent of it all. So much of the criticism right now is about how un-intuitive the game is, so I'm curious about the 'pre-production' phase of the game, to put it in cinema terms. (I don't know much about how the game industry works, so I think of it in terms of the three main stages of filmmaking)
 

Deleted member 46948

Account closed at user request
Banned
Aug 22, 2018
8,852
I feel so bad for the developers who put years of their life into these games only to be torn down like it's the worst thing on the planet because not all the gameplay systems gel. Really puts into perspective how important QA and gameplay system designers are. Puts you off the thought of working on AAA games.

I also feel bad for the hundreds of thousands of consumers who pay their (in many cases certainly hard earned) money for a garbage product that is nothing like they were led to believe.
 
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