Angry Joe accused of sexual harassment/predatory behaviour [Updates from both posted]

[TCG276]

This is about giving the accuser the benefit of the doubt. It's not a matter of "guilty until proven innocent" - at this point it's no more complicated than "WTF Joe. Explain yourself." It's natural that some people have a stronger reaction than that, because they've witnessed this kind of thing countless times before.

As an intelligent, logical person, you understand that the accuser has absolutely nothing to gain from sharing their experience and saying "Be wary of this person" while we as consumers and potential industry acquaintances have everything to gain. We need to learn from these stories and foster an environment where women feel safer, and where eyes are on people who have the potential to do enormous harm.

I don't give a fuck about Joe. I enjoyed some of his videos, but he's just a celebrity; an internet personality. He obviously made some poor decisions and he can deal with those and accept responsibility as a regular human should.

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Believe it or not you can give someone the benefit of the doubt while reserving final judgement. I understand that statistically she is more likely to be telling the truth than not, but to act like people never accuse people of crazy ass shit that never even happened, is crazy to me. No one should be convicted and sentenced without hearing from both sides. Like I said, statistics make it more likely that Joe is indeed a scumbag. But regardless of that fact, I still choose to wait for final judgement, and that isn't unfair or unsympathetic to either side.

 

[Lobster Roll]

No, because this perspective risks being even more sexist than what it condemns. You are automatically conflating a woman with a victim and someone who has no power and no voice. Someone with no choice, or someone who cannot take care of herself.

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Keep talkin'. You're almost saying what you really want to say.

 

[Love Machine]

Believe it or not you can give someone the benefit of the doubt while reserving final judgement. I understand that statistically she is more likely to be telling the truth than not, but to act like people never accuse people of crazy ass shit that never even happened, is crazy to me. No one should be convicted and sentenced without hearing from both sides. Like I said, statistics make it more likely that Joe is indeed a scumbag. But regardless of that fact, I still choose to wait for final judgement, and that isn't unfair or unsympathetic to either side.

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I get where you're coming from, but this isn't a court case. No one is being criminally charged for harassment/assault in the workplace for instance. Joe won't get "convicted and sentenced." This is a judgement call people are free to make based on the evidence at hand, including testimonies from people other than the accuser. If you were placed in a real life situation, between these two people, hopefully your first instinct would be to reel away from the accused and demand convincing evidence to the contrary; and failing that, a damn good apology.

In regard to the bolded, unfortunately it is unsympathetic to the accuser. She is by far and away at a disadvantage here - she was the victim at the time, and she is now the victim of blaming or shaming for making "actual incidents" look bad. How do you think that makes her feel as a person who has had this experience and felt the need to bring it to light? People like this need allies, and we need to take their side first and foremost if we're to challenge the fundamental problem of abusive/predatory behaviour in the industry.

 

[Mesoian]

Some of the bigger people came out of TGWTG turned out to be not so good.

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You know what I find amazing?

I expected people from SA to end up being some of the worst people on this planet, and they have matured into some of the most well rounded and giving individuals I've ever seen.

It's never what you'd expect.

 

[TCG276]

I get where you're coming from, but this isn't a court case. No one is being criminally charged for harassment/assault in the workplace for instance. Joe won't get "convicted and sentenced." This is a judgement call people are free to make based on the evidence at hand, including testimonies from people other than the accuser. If you were placed in a real life situation, between these two people, hopefully your first instinct would be to reel away from the accused and demand convincing evidence to the contrary; and failing that, a damn good apology.

In regard to the bolded, unfortunately it is unsympathetic to the accuser. She is by far and away at a disadvantage here - she was the victim at the time, and she is now the victim of blaming or shaming for making "actual incidents" look bad. How do you think that makes her feel as a person who has had this experience and felt the need to bring it to light? People like this need allies, and we need to take their side first and foremost if we're to challenge the fundamental problem of abusive/predatory behaviour in the industry.

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Fair points. I definitely see where you're coming from. If I was there between them I would definitely want to make sure the victim feels safe and believed. But I also wouldn't completely throw the accused under the bus without giving him a fair chance to explain himself

 

[Canucked]

"Let me reserve judgement." People acting like their voice or opinion matters here, or even carried any weight of judgement is peak masculinity. Like, if you want to reserve judgement then reserve it all, including your desire to voice your reserve. It's irrelevant.

Believing women, in turn supporting voices, on a web forum doesnt harm a rich youtuber, who already has a loud voice.

 

[Xterrian]

You know what I find amazing?

I expected people from SA to end up being some of the worst people on this planet, and they have matured into some of the most well rounded and giving individuals I've ever seen.

It's never what you'd expect.

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SA as in Screw attack or Something Awful?

But I agree. Going back to mid 00's videos can be eye-opening as to what was deemed acceptable back then. I'm glad many people matured from using "gay" every other sentence.

 

[TCG276]

"Let me reserve judgement." People acting like their voice or opinion matters here, or even carried any weight of judgement is peak masculinity. Like, if you want to reserve judgement then reserve it all, including your desire to voice your reserve. It's irrelevant.

Believing women, in turn supporting voices, on a web forum doesnt harm a rich youtuber, who already has a loud voice.

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I understand that it must be hard to come forward after being mistreated but I do not understand why it's seen as wrong to want to know both sides of a story. Should anyone who accuses someone of mistreating them be assumed innocent without question? You can give someone the benefit of the doubt while still wanting to hear both sides of the story.

 

[Pheonix]

The dude shot his shot...

Disgustingly, like a sleaze and using his position of influence as some sort of entitlement to gain sexual favors. Unfortunately, something very common and typical of most men (and even women) in a position of power.

As they say, power corrupts... I tend to believe it just brings out the worst in people.

I would say to women though if you ever find yourself being in a position where you feel uncomfortable, its best to say you are uncomfortable and leave and apologize for getting it all wrong if at a later time or date you end up finding out you were wrong to suspect the guy than to stay and hope you are wrong and give him the benefit of the doubt. An honest and decent man would understand and even apologize for making you in any way feel uncomfortable.

Oh, I also agree that hearing both sides of the story is only fair. Wanting to do so doesn't mean the victim isn't being believed. Because there are also people that actually can lie about stuff like this for whatever reason. Not saying that anyone is lying here though, just saying that its ok (and even necessary) to hear both sides of the story before any judgment is passed.

 

[TheChungusAmongUs]

You know what I find amazing?

I expected people from SA to end up being some of the worst people on this planet, and they have matured into some of the most well rounded and giving individuals I've ever seen.

It's never what you'd expect.

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Screwattack?

 

[HockeyBird]

Joe definitely fumbled his initial response and if he is getting lawyers involved, they are probably screaming at him for not consulting them at the very beginning.

 

[Phellps]

I have concluded this shithead is a full on bigot at this point, so it does not surprise me that much.

I feel really sorry for this woman and every other woman he has ever come in contact with. This is so absurd levels of manipulation, even going as far as to take her personal belongings hostage. And the people who said they didn't realize what was going on, I call bullshit. There's no way this woman looked even remotely comfortable in a situation like that. These people are enablers.

 

[Canucked]

I understand that it must be hard to come forward after being mistreated but I do not understand why it's seen as wrong to want to know both sides of a story. Should anyone who accuses someone of mistreating them be assumed innocent without question? You can give someone the benefit of the doubt while still wanting to hear both sides of the story.

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then look up both sides when they're out.

there is no need to go online and be like "I'll wait for both sides." When we're trying to build a word where ignored voices are finally being heard.

the point is just listen. No one cares if you're waiting for both sides. Saying "that's nice but I want to hear more from him" when you knowing more is irrelevant. Just listening helps build voices while still serving your need to see all the evidence.

 

[Lobster Roll]

I would say to women though if you ever find yourself being in a position where you feel uncomfortable, its best to say you are uncomfortable and leave and apologize for getting it all wrong if at a later time or date you end up finding out you were wrong to suspect the guy than to stay and hope you are wrong and give him the benefit of the doubt. An honest and decent man would understand, and even apologize for making you in any way feel uncomfortable.

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And a dishonest and shitty man might follow her home so he can prey on her. I'm not a woman, so I'm not going to go giving women advice, and you shouldn't either. There are countless stories of women finding themselves in a far worse situation than they were in because they decided to say they are uncomfortable and leaving. Many women in these situations are silently coming up with a strategy for an exit plan where they can duck out undetected. Many women find themselves in a situation similar to one experienced with AngryJoe, because they're going with the flow with a very powerful & influential person in the industry and they realize how much power the person can wield. It's very easy to go along with the powerful person and to then look back on it later, only to realize, "wow ... that was completely fucked up".

While it's easy to sit back and give women advice that they should just express discomfort and leave, it's not always black and white. Hell, in her story she mentions that when they arrived at the bar, Joe had somebody take her phone and purse away from her. That is a deliberate, planned move to mess with her exit strategy. It's not uncommon for a woman to ask a stranger for help in the bathroom because they need backup for when the leave. It's not uncommon for a woman to ask a bouncer to keep a man busy so she can GTFO without the man seeing where she's going. Getting away from an uncomfortable situation, even in a public space, is not always something that one can easily eject from quickly.

 

[Pheonix]

then look up both sides when they're out.

there is no need to go online and be like "I'll wait for both sides." When we're trying to build a word where ignored voices are finally being heard.

the point is just listen. No one cares if you're waiting for both sides. Saying "that's nice but I want to hear more from him" when you knowing more is irrelevant. Just listening helps build voices while still serving your need to see all the evidence.

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This is a weird thing to say....

I'm on page 14 of this thread, 600 posts deep. If your advice is to just listen, is that what 90% of all the posters in this thread have done? Or have they already passed judgment?

You can create a world where it is ok for people to come out and talk if at the same time you are fostering a lynch mentality and automatically making whoever has been spoken out against as wrong without at the very least hearing that persons side of the story.

 

[Senator Rains]

His reaction to the accusation is pretty telling, damn. He's going off.

And she's being crucified on twitter. What a shameful day.

 

[Canucked]

This is a weird thing to say....

I'm on page 14 of this thread, 600 posts deep. If your advice is to just listen, is that what 90% of all the posters in this thread have done? Or have they already passed judgment?

You can create a world where it is ok for people to come out and talk if at the same time you are fostering a lynch mentality and automatically making whoever has been spoken out against as wrong without at the very least hearing that persons side of the story.

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no one is lynching. Get a grip.

 

[Mesoian]

SA as in Screw attack or Something Awful?

But I agree. Going back to mid 00's videos can be eye-opening as to what was deemed acceptable back then. I'm glad many people matured from using "gay" every other sentence.

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Something Awful.

 

[Pheonix]

And a dishonest and shitty man might follow her home so he can prey on her. I'm not a woman, so I'm not going to go giving women advice, and you shouldn't either. There are countless stories of women finding themselves in a far worse situation than they were in because they decided to say they are uncomfortable and leaving. Many women in these situations are silently coming up with a strategy for an exit plan where they can duck out undetected. Many women find themselves in a situation similar to one experienced with AngryJoe, because they're going with the flow with a very powerful & influential person in the industry and they realize how much power the person can wield. It's very easy to go along with the powerful person and to then look back on it later, only to realize, "wow ... that was completely fucked up".

While it's easy to sit back and give women advice that they should just express discomfort and leave, it's not always black and white. Hell, in her story she mentions that when they arrived at the bar, Joe had somebody take her phone and purse away from her. That is a deliberate, planned move to mess with her exit strategy. It's not uncommon for a woman to ask a stranger for help in the bathroom because they need backup for when the leave. It's not uncommon for a woman to ask a bouncer to keep a man busy so she can GTFO without the man seeing where she's going. Getting away from an uncomfortable situation, even in a public space, is not always something that one can easily eject from quickly.

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I guess freedom of speech is not as free as most people make it out to be.

I know how that shit plays out, I have a few female friends that has been in very similar situations and some even in significantly worse situations. What i said is just suggestion, but its ultimately saying, if a woman feels uncomfortable, they should have an exit plan. That they should at that point NEVER, stay because they're giving the man the benefit of the doubt. That is what those kinda men prey on, being given the benefit of the doubt.

Its unfortunate this shit happens, its unfortunate that a lot of women (and I really don't like singling out women here cause i have seen this shit happen to guys too [hell, its happened to me twice, once from a woman and once from guy]) but I know that there are a lot of people in power that will continue doing this shit.

Like don't get me started, and I hate that a lot of people seem to think that if someone says anything other than condemnation then it means we are being insensitive. I have spent awhile week locked up because some evil woman about 12 years older than me accused me of sexually assaulting her simply because I refused to indulge her advances. The only reason I am here talking and not spending 20 years of my life in prison is because i had evidence of our conversations before and after my appointment with her.

 

[TCG276]

The point is just listen. No one cares if you're waiting for both sides. Saying "that's nice but I want to hear more from him" when you knowing more is irrelevant. Just listening helps build voices while still serving your need to see all the evidence.

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So basically what you're saying is, because you don't agree with my feelings on the matter, and according to you, no one else does either, I should just shut up and listen?

The ironic thing about these kinds of accusations is, the victim is expected to be believed, no matter what, unless it's someone like Tara Reade. In her case, the media, and public opinion, are going out of their way to discredit her accusations. Why? Because she could destroy Biden's chance. In fact, when I brought attention to her accusations on social media, literally no one came to her defense. I'm someone who will not vote for Trump, so there was no agenda in me bringing attention to her accusations. People just genuinely don't care because of what it could mean.

 

[Pheonix]

no one is lynching. Get a grip.

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You want e to have to start quoting posters here?

I'm just gonna drop this.

 

[Love Machine]

Fair points. I definitely see where you're coming from. If I was there between them I would definitely want to make sure the victim feels safe and believed. But I also wouldn't completely throw the accused under the bus without giving him a fair chance to explain himself

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Thanks for being reasonable. You are absolutely right that the priority is making the victim feel safe. None of us have the power or the right to throw the accused under a bus. That is for them to sort out. However we do have the power and the right to make a judgement call, whether it's based on evidence or an emotional reaction. It's still valid.

It can also be wrong. If Joe has been wrongfully accused, I'll gladly apologise for assuming the worst about him. But instinct here says to believe those coming from a place of vulnerability and fear. I am curious to see how Joe explains himself in this case, but I don't have high hopes based on his handling of the situation so far.

 

[barley]

The responses on the medium article are disgusting. What the fuck is wrong with these people...

Ok, I can understand if his most ardent fans want to jump defend him, but the way they do so is so wildly immature and disrespectful.

Her account is so detailed and she has nothing to gain. Why would she make this up? I believe her 1000%.

 

[DC5remy]

Anyone is capable of anything, in my experiences. We need to stop idolizing fools on then internet and put our focus on more important topics. Fuck these video game internet fools.

 

[barley]

This is a weird thing to say....

I'm on page 14 of this thread, 600 posts deep. If your advice is to just listen, is that what 90% of all the posters in this thread have done? Or have they already passed judgment?

You can create a world where it is ok for people to come out and talk if at the same time you are fostering a lynch mentality and automatically making whoever has been spoken out against as wrong without at the very least hearing that persons side of the story.

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How dare you even use the word "lynch" in this context. Show some god damn respect.

 

[SapientWolf]

I'm going to guess this sort of thing is depressingly common in the streaming world. We probably don't know the half of it.

 

[FF Seraphim]

The responses on the medium article are disgusting. What the fuck is wrong with these people...

Ok, I can understand if his most ardent fans want to jump defend him, but the way they do so is so wildly immature and disrespectful.

Her account is so detailed and she has nothing to gain. Why would she make this up? I believe her 1000%.

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Because our community (gaming groups) are full of toxicity. I wish we could fix it, but I have no idea how. Its to the point where it may just be better to just play games and not interact with people until you can tell they are mature.

 

[TCG276]

"I've watched u for years now on both Youtube and Twitch just never said anything until now and I know that you've never done anything u stand accused of and the Truth will come out Just like everyone else we stand with you! You did nothing wrong!"

I will never understand people who blindly believe someone they don't even know. I am referring to the idiot I just quoted.

 

[Skeeter49]

His reaction to the accusation is pretty telling, damn. He's going off.

And she's being crucified on twitter. What a shameful day.

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That's what sucks when we get accusations like this. The Twitter fans attack the accuser, because they don't want to think the person they follow/ rely on hte content of for entertainment could do something wrong. Not saying tha'ts everyone, it is a vocal minority that get pissed at teh accuser and go in full attack mode. And sadly not much could be done about that. Joe could have said something in his tweet about not attacking the person, that could have honestly helped him a little.

 

[Pheonix]

How dare you even use the word "lynch" in this context. Show some god damn respect.

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wtf?

Ok...I am out.

 

[Nome]

Mmm, unsurprised at this. Not because it's Angry Joe, just because of the pattern of behavior I've seen men in the gaming industry (devs and content creators alike) have towards female fans. One of the reasons I loathe going to gaming cons is because I see this shit among peers a lot.

 

[Skeeter49]

"I've watched u for years now on both Youtube and Twitch just never said anything until now and I know that you've never done anything u stand accused of and the Truth will come out Just like everyone else we stand with you! You did nothing wrong!"

I will never understand people who blindly believe someone they don't even know. I am referring to the idiot I just quoted.

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Could be a few things. They don't care about the issue enough to understan what it's like for the accuser, they didn't read up on it and are only going off of what Joe said (in this situation I think this one is pretty accurate), they honestly think Joe was in the right, etc. It's important to remember these people are a vocal minority, most people will/ would have an issue with Joe sexually harassing someone, but most of them are probably waiting for more proof, which in itself is an issue.

People have made videos defending Joe, saying all it essentially was, was just flirting, so Twitter comments like that seem tame in comparison to me.

 

[TCG276]

Thanks for being reasonable. You are absolutely right that the priority is making the victim feel safe. None of us have the power or the right to throw the accused under a bus. That is for them to sort out. However we do have the power and the right to make a judgement call, whether it's based on evidence or an emotional reaction. It's still valid.

It can also be wrong. If Joe has been wrongfully accused, I'll gladly apologise for assuming the worst about him. But instinct here says to believe those coming from a place of vulnerability and fear. I am curious to see how Joe explains himself in this case, but I don't have high hopes based on his handling of the situation so far.

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So far he is not doing a great job explaining himself on Twitter.

 

[Deleted member 46489]

 

[Deleted member 21709]

The dude shot his shot...

Disgustingly, like a sleaze and using his position of influence as some sort of entitlement to gain sexual favors. Unfortunately, something very common and typical of most men (and even women) in a position of power.

As they say, power corrupts... I tend to believe it just brings out the worst in people.

I would say to women though if you ever find yourself being in a position where you feel uncomfortable, its best to say you are uncomfortable and leave and apologize for getting it all wrong if at a later time or date you end up finding out you were wrong to suspect the guy than to stay and hope you are wrong and give him the benefit of the doubt. An honest and decent man would understand and even apologize for making you in any way feel uncomfortable.

Oh, I also agree that hearing both sides of the story is only fair. Wanting to do so doesn't mean the victim isn't being believed. Because there are also people that actually can lie about stuff like this for whatever reason. Not saying that anyone is lying here though, just saying that its ok (and even necessary) to hear both sides of the story before any judgment is passed.

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This isn't on women. And someone putting a woman in this position is not going to be honest/decent.

 

[Deleted member 46489]

 

[Deleted member 46489]

Honestly, these replies aren't looking good. Unless he manages to show some receipts, I'm gonna believe the woman.

 

[foamdino]

So not sure if this is the place but JP has responded about Kaitlyn (and some other posts covered the jp-kaitlyn thing in this thread)

My perspective re: kaitlyn

There’s been a lot of discussion related to Kaitlyn’s tweets last night, which I want to address with the thoroughness and focus they…

medium.com

 

[Death Penalty]

snip

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This entire post brushed over literally the two most important points of mine which were, to spell them out to you again, 1. generally speaking women don't falsely accuse and 2. when they do come forward they are historically not taken seriously or outright vilified. These two facts are why you should believe victims, but you go ahead and keep waxing philosophical and hand-wringing.

 

[ZeoVGM]

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From the cadence to the random capitalization of words that shouldn't be capitalized, he's sounding very Trump-esque here.

 

[Deleted member 46489]

From the cadence to the random capitalization of words that shouldn't be capitalized, he's sounding very Trump-esque here.

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You know, that's EXACTLY what I was gonna say. But then I thought I shouldn't make an unfair comparison until he gives a final reply. But yeah, reads very Trump-like.

 

[UltraMav]

Welp, if he's not guilty, he's definitely stupid. "I know I shouldn't speak publicly on the issue before obtaining legal counsel but I'm going to do it anyway herp derp!"

 

[Magneto]

Welp, if he's not guilty, he's definitely stupid. "I know I shouldn't speak publicly on the issue before obtaining legal counsel but I'm going to do it anyway herp derp!"

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If i was wrongly accused of something (or had to give the impression that i'm not guilty), it would be hard for me to keep my mouth shut to be fair, even if that's the "right" thing to do.

 

[Ozzie666]

Honestly, these replies aren't looking good. Unless he manages to show some receipts, I'm gonna believe the woman.

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This is an interesting time we live in, Cancel culture and the will to readily vilify anyone for a cause. Innocent until proven guilty, seems to have been tossed aside for everything these days. As stated, sometimes these claims are not valid, it's more common than people think. People like to jump onto the bandwagon and just pile on the current #trend. Making claims that are untrue and damaging is just as bad, if not worse, if the claim was true to being with.

People can't express their own opinions without being dragged over the coals, unless its the popular opinion of the moment or the movement. Free speech be damned right? Always 3 sides of the story, his, hers and the truth.

AJ's reactions seems like he has receipts and witnesses. His anger seems appropriate for an innocent guy who's head is spinning. AJ already knows he's done, all it takes is 1 wrong claim, he's done. The internet people don't forgive or understand, just cancel. However, even if he proves the person is lying or it was a misunderstanding, which if very well could be. The damage is done and no one is going to care if the person was wrong or not. This is no different to a student claiming a teacher was inappropriate. Ruins a person's life, even if innocent in the end. These claims, in this day and age, should be highly scrutinized before believing. Those making false claims, should be held accountable to the highest degree, but they are not.

Everyone is in such a hurry to think the worst of people, without considering the whole picture.

Obviously if it's true, its terrible, very terrible.

 

[Love Machine]

If i was wrongly accused of something (or had to give the impression that i'm not guilty), it would be hard for me to keep my mouth shut to be fair, even if that's the "right" thing to do.

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I was thinking about this, and I'm not sure what I'd do in his exact position (because I don't know what it's like to have that kind of status or money, etc.) but if I was accused of something, the first step I would want to take is try to talk to the accuser and try to understand it on a personal level. Not sure if that's the best response (or even a good one), but I think I would be too scared to do anything else.

Everyone is in such a hurry to think the worst of people, without considering the whole picture.

Obviously if it's true, its terrible, very terrible.

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You talk about the "truth" or the "whole picture" as if the two sides are independent of it, when they are not.
The truth of the matter is, one person behaved in a way that made another person feel uncomfortable/violated/threatened. Enough so that they kept quite for a long time, afraid to take it outside of their private circles.

If Joe is innocent, it's only by virtue of being ignorant. Namely, he did not understand the signs or read the air at the time, and then somehow managed to make a bad situation worse by telling her she is "just like the rest". He is now doubling down on that ignorance by immediately responding with the victim blame card. It doesn't matter how much your head is spinning, or how absurd you find the allegations, as a rational human being you don't come back on the offensive like that. He's doing the damage himself at this point, but he can undo it if he actually does treat the situation and his accuser with an ounce of respect.

 

[HBC_XL]

The comment section of the post though...holy hell. It's not even all directed at her. The comments excuse all kinds of abuse, and it's disturbing that anyone feels even remotely okay having those opinions.

I hope something comes of this, if only for a healing process to continue for the abused. Sad shit people do when they have any kind of power over others.

 

[subpar spatula]

This is an interesting time we live in, Cancel culture and the will to readily vilify anyone for a cause. Innocent until proven guilty, seems to have been tossed aside for everything these days. As stated, sometimes these claims are not valid, it's more common than people think. People like to jump onto the bandwagon and just pile on the current #trend. Making claims that are untrue and damaging is just as bad, if not worse, if the claim was true to being with.

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It would have been better if you said nothing at all.

 

[UltraMav]

If i was wrongly accused of something (or had to give the impression that i'm not guilty), it would be hard for me to keep my mouth shut to be fair, even if that's the "right" thing to do.

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I think a simple "I am innocent. I have contacted a lawyer and will no longer speak on these issues until after that discussion" would suffice. I definitely wouldn't go all in on shouting down the accuser in multiple tweets.

 

[PayaV87]

This entire post brushed over literally the two most important points of mine which were, to spell them out to you again, 1. generally speaking women don't falsely accuse and 2. when they do come forward they are historically not taken seriously or outright vilified. These two facts are why you should believe victims, but you go ahead and keep waxing philosophical and hand-wringing.

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Is it the right approach to instantly believe one side and discard the other? I think that such generalisation could lead to more problems than good.

Aside from this case, let's say someone comes out and says that you showed your genitalia to him/her unwanted. (Joe did not do anything like this.) You know that did not happen. What would you expect from the public? Instantly condemn you, because the accuser historically always right? Your case is the opposite, but it is worth it, for greater good?

Each case needs to be looked individually. Each side needs to be heard. Hundreds of years ago, we had the same problem, people said that some woman are guilt, and they were burned alive, and they did not had a way to defend themselves. I don't think we should be doing witchhunts, and neither do we do sexual abuser hunts.

And I know that my analogy is not perfect, because there are no witches, but there are sexual abuser, a lot!

 

[AllMight1]

Does this mean we can finally stop having threads each time one of his shitty reviews comes out?

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Hopefully. We dont need a thread every time the guy posts something on youtube.

Joe never really seemed like the most sane individual.