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VX1

Member
Oct 28, 2017
7,000
Europe
I would be very surprised if Sony followed Microsoft because they simply don't need to do what Microsoft is doing because 1) both are going in a different direction, 2) Sony's exclusives sell millions upon millions and are successful as well as get rated high by critics and gamers where as outside of the big three, Microsoft's exclusives simply don't and 3) Sony's exclusives focus on being third person single player story driven narrative games where as Microsoft's exclusives focus around online multi-player and live services which when you're trying to sell a subscription makes sense because if you're going to play the same game for months, it simply fits.

The major negative I have seen since Spencer started this a year ago is that in terms of Microsoft's exclusives, he's 1 for 3 in regards to releasing quality games based on majority of critics and gamers. When he announced that Sea of Thieves was going on Game Pass day one, let's be honest, you knew the game was going to be lacking and at best subpar followed by State of Decay 2 which was also another subpar game at best. Granted, these games could become great and be the next Rainbow Six Siege months or years later but I personally want the quality day one, not months or years later.

The quality is main difference. Sony's exclusives are of high quality and are worth more when being sold at $60 each as opposed to giving them away as a $10 rental for a month. I would much rather pay $180 in a year for three games like in 2018 that are a 9.5/10, a 9.0/10 and a game that im expecting to be an 8+ for me when I play it (Detroit, backlog) as opposed to paying $120 a year for a game I have zero interest in with SOT, a game I quit after 15 hours in SOD 2 and another game and genre that I have zero interest in with Forza Horizon 4. At least FH4 is of high quality which is also why Playground Games is the only new studio in which I have 100% confidence in as they've proven themselves.

My biggest concern with Microsoft/Spencer/Game Pass is that they're too focused on quantity in order to keep adding to Game Pass as opposed to quality. The big three (or four if you want to count Forza M/H as two) will always be of high quality but all the rest are simply debatable. Giving me say 6 exclusives in a year on Game Pass but all of them are only above average games isn't impressing me at all and if anything, is turning me off because my time is valuable and I refuse to waste it on bad/average/above average games when there's far better games available that I could be playing instead.

Sony unlike Microsoft has earned my $60 for Days Gone, TLOUP2 and Ghost of Tsushima because when it comes to their exclusives, they have earned my confidence in them simply because they rarely if ever disappoint me. The last disappointment for me was Knack and that was a launch title. But last gen, Sony gave me 4 excellent exclusives from Naughty Dog and 1 great one from Housemarque. This gen, they have simply hit home run after home run.

Microsoft for me hasn't. The last great exclusive they gave me was Gears 4 and based on what they have releasing in 2019, it will be 3 years later when I get another great game which amazingly is in the same franchise, that being Gears 5. Quantity simply means nothing to me if the quality doesn't equal or surpass it and in this regard, they have simply failed which is why their exclusives are on Game Pass.

One thing that really interests me but will never know is, I wonder how SOT/SOD 2 would have done in sales if it wasn't for Game Pass. Yeah, I know SOD 2 was #1 for May NPD but it was a $30 game, less if you had GCU or that 20% off at Amazon. Not really saying much.

Bottom line is that for me, their directions are different and for Microsoft, it makes perfect sense where as for Sony, I believe that it would be fucking stupid and completely devalue all of their IP's. To each their own but I don't see Sony doing this and I for one hope they never do because I know that once they do, the quality will decline and I prefer to pay for quality rather than quantity.

The way Game Pass was designed,it will definitely be quantity over quality,yeah.
MS will need any content they can get to fill Game Pass,often with subpar quality.

Sony vs MS will be something like HBO vs Netflix i guess.
There is a reason i have HBO cable subscription for more then a decade now but i never got Netflix.Here in Europe at least they have nothing that interest me.
 

MrKlaw

Member
Oct 25, 2017
33,060
You need to balance
- how many people would subscribe anyway
- how many people extra would you get from adding FP titles

Then

- how many of those extra subscribers wouldn't have bought your FP titles (genuine additional income)
- how many people that would have bought FP games have now subscribed instead and will not buy the games (lost income)

My guess would be the maths don't add up to make it worthwhile for Sony
 

gofreak

Member
Oct 26, 2017
7,736
That tipping point, of 4m subs, is actually very low.

Sony has indicated on a number of occasions that they see streaming as a next inflection point for videogame distribution. This was in recent years, but before MS's announced intentions.

I think the question of leveraging all of their own content, day and date, in that arena is a matter of when rather than if.

There will come a point when it makes sense, where the idea of what a platform holder is shifts, and Sony will have to use all its assets to compete. The only question is when, and I imagine Sony is trying very hard to read and anticipate where and when that inflection point will be. I think they've basically been doing this analysis for the last 8 years.

It would also remain to be seen under what business models that might happen. It might happen under the existing all-you-can-eat subscription model, but maybe they'll have multiple tiers. Or maybe they'll have an all you can eat catalogue with additional separate access to games you've purchased.

But in any case, the meaning of being a platform holder is morphing. In the end I don't expect Sony to be shy about competing with everything at their disposal.

---

On the question of do they need to do it to be competitive with MS? I think it's a different question. Microsoft's policy is more of a promise than one that will have an outsized impact on subscription catalogue quality in the near term. If in 2020/2021 Sony put all their first party PS4 games on PSNow, and an ongoing selection of PS5 stuff, I think it'll be more than a match for the first party MS catalogue on gamepass in that first couple of years of the next cycle, despite any policy difference on all 1st party stuff being day and date, if that difference lingers. And I think that's understating it a little actually. Of course I'd love them to adopt that policy, I think it would be forward looking and fantastic value for us...there would be a marketing value to that also... but I can also see that what Sony and MS can bring to a 1st party subscription catalogue without that policy is not comparing apples to apples.

The biggest obstacle to this at present is service availability. The rollout of PS Now has been utterly glacial.

Their infrastructure expansion seems to be accelerating recently, looking at public resources and other announcements. We can see them setting up in datacenters and exchanges in more European countries (e.g. Sweden, Spain, Italy). They established an office in Australia last year.

I think a fire may have been lit under them on this front. It remains to be seen how aggressively and quickly they'll scale, but 'something' changed in the last year or so.
 
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GrrImAFridge

ONE THOUSAND DOLLARYDOOS
Member
Oct 25, 2017
9,675
Western Australia
Their infrastructure expansion seems to be accelerating recently, looking at public resources and other announcements. We can see them setting up in datacenters and exchanges in more European countries (e.g. Sweden, Spain, Italy). They established an office in Australia last year.

I think a fire has been it under them on this front.

That's encouraging. Here's hoping I don't have to wait too much longer to finally play R&C: Into the Nexus.
 
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RestEerie

Banned
Aug 20, 2018
13,618
Don't think it's viable for sony to put their new 1st party titles on PS Now although i can see them putting their legacy and old 1st party titles on an alternative service named PS Then.

I'll see myself out.
 

gofreak

Member
Oct 26, 2017
7,736
That's encouraging. Here's hoping I don't have to wait too much long to finally play R&C: Into the Nexus.

I think Now could end up coming to more territories irrespective of streaming infrastructure, with the addition of downloads. Streaming could become a 'where available' feature to a subscription service that's available everywhere.

Well... maybe, maybe not. Maybe they'd like to only make it available where the whole catalogue is available and streamable. But I imagine they've at least considered morphing it in that direction, where the streaming component isn't necessarily a limitation on where it's available.

I'd say, actually, a lot of things are on the table in terms of changes going into next gen. I could see Now being rolled into PS+ potentially, or being a premium tier of PS+. Now already gives you Plus access for free when playing on Now... It feels like there are a couple of weird little overlaps that could be tidied up in their subs offerings.
 

Deleted member 2254

user requested account closure
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
21,467
I'd be far more interested in investing in multiple ecosystems if this was a thing. Paying a few bucks per month to play all Sony first parties would mean it would be a much more viable secondary console (Xbox is my main one).
 

zedox

Member
Oct 28, 2017
5,215
When I stated that MS should put their AAA into GamePass, I said that Sony would need to do the same...and it will eventually happen. The gaming medium has been changing slowly and there are other avenues in which a platform holder can make money. I've already did the potential for MS to make money, and it's the same for Sony doing the same. Too many people here are stuck in the traditional model of being a platform holder where it's changing so your view is what it is now, not what it will be in 5 years time. As much as Sony is doing well with their 1st party output...those titles that they sell are still around 10% of their entire console base. 10%. While that's good in terms of sales...the potential to get money out of more customers is way too high. Reoccuring money on a regular schedule is something that companies love.

Sony will eventually do the same as Microsoft for a simple reason...they don't want Microsoft to be the Netflix of games, they want to be it. Users consuming gaming while paying monthly and getting extra funds from DLC/MTX on top of selling games is literally the perfection of the Netflix model (something that Netflix actually can't do), and this is what Microsoft is trying to do with GamePass (that will include xCloud streaming for no extra cost...a prediction of mine because it makes the most sense). Sony came from the angle of making PSNow streaming first because they saw that potential, and they are no doubt working on their infrastructure to deliver games to more consumers.

They've already have a steady stream of 1st party content each year, what they don't have and what is the biggest difference between PSNow and GamePass is not the 1st party titles but actually the 3rd party titles that are launching into GamePass date and date. That's what Sony needs to really compete with MS on because then it makes their service looks less than even if they do add 1st party games to PSNow. That's the thing that most gamers on this forum don't understand. Even though 1st party is a big deal (no doubt), having those 3rd parties on your service is actually where the meat of the service comes from because that's the thing that keeps users subscribed instead of 1 and done.

This is where Sony really "leaving" the independant developers "behind" compared to the beginning of the generation really hurt them to focus on their 1st party output. While those relationships can heal, it will take a while, in the meantime MS has healed that relationship that they lost while already having their 1st party on the service and has consistently been launching games into the service from 3rd parties. If Sony doesn't get games to launch onto their service, then it won't matter. Oh and because of this, if Sony goes all in on PSNow (as they should), definitely be prepared for 3rd party launch exclusives on these subscription services (while still letting the competitor sell the game launch day and date).

The subscription wars will soon be upon us...and we will be the ones to benefit, the consumers.
 

jsnepo

Banned
Oct 28, 2017
4,648
Will Disney put all their Marvel and Star Wars movies on their streaming platform same date as when they get released on theaters? If not, why?
 

Kaguya

Member
Jun 19, 2018
6,408
It's only not very viable for them because they can add them to PSNow month 3 or 5 to the same effect. Them not being there in the first year is a big oversight.
 

Herey

Unshakable Resolve
Member
Jan 10, 2019
3,412
I think it's a matter of when not if, personally. They're missing a trick if by the time PS5 rolls around they don't have a gamepass-like service, with FP day and date.

You can tell in threads like these who has subbed to gamepass and who hasn't. Sony doing this wouldn't mean Naughty Dog would have to make a gaas title to sell the platform. All it requires is a steady stream of content in diverse genres, something Sony can do.
 

12Danny123

Member
Jan 31, 2018
1,722
I think it's a matter of when not if, personally. They're missing a trick if by the time PS5 rolls around they don't have a gamepass-like service, with FP day and date.

You can tell in threads like these who has subbed to gamepass and who hasn't. Sony doing this wouldn't mean Naughty Dog would have to make a gaas title to sell the platform. All it requires is a steady stream of content in diverse genres, something Sony can do.

It's possible, their games take long to build. They would need to aggressively build up their studios.
 

Luke_wal

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,255
Pretty low as Sony's games have generally been of higher value than Microsoft's games this generation.

Why would you include games like God of War and Spider-Man if you know you'll sell 10 million + copies of them?

Well, if you believe what Microsoft says, putting games on Game Pass day one boosts their overall sales through word of mouth.
 

Toriko

Banned
Dec 29, 2017
7,711
Well, if you believe what Microsoft says, putting games on Game Pass day one boosts their overall sales through word of mouth.

I really don't know how it's supposed to work. I pay 10 dollars on gamepass and say a game is great to a friend. Therefore my friend will pay 60 bucks for the same said game?

Do we have evidence of ps plus games boosting retail sales? Like I get word of mouth might be somewhat impactful but I really doubt there is a direct correlation between putting a game on gamepass and increasing retail sales. At best gamepass may get ppl who otherwise would not have bought it for 60 dollars to try it out and therefore grows the pie but I really don't think it boosts retail sales.
I am skeptical of that claim.
 

Alex840

Member
Oct 31, 2017
5,120
Well, if you believe what Microsoft says, putting games on Game Pass day one boosts their overall sales through word of mouth.

I believe them, but Sea of Theives and Statemof Decay aren't the same as God of War and Spider-Man. I'll be interested to see sales of Gears 5 or Halo Infinite.
 

Herey

Unshakable Resolve
Member
Jan 10, 2019
3,412
It's possible, their games take long to build. They would need to aggressively build up their studios.
I think Sony's current lineup of studios would have enough clout to keep people engaged, as long as new stuff is on the horizon and there's a decent amount of 3rd party content, and the type of indies MS is doing day and date.
 

Jade1962

Banned
Oct 28, 2017
4,259
Because you'd also be selling copies of the games as well as taking $10-$15 a month off a few million people. So you'd stand to make more money.

"Higher value" lol.

By your logic, Marvel shouldn't be putting their movies on any streaming services because then no one will buy them because of their "high value".

Marvel movies don't launch on streaming services. Only their cheap TV shows do. Also if you haven't noticed home movie sales are massively down since they started putting their big releases on netflix.

Gamepass seems to be the first streaming service that increases sales of individual content.
 

McScroggz

The Fallen
Jan 11, 2018
5,973
If Sony could make more money every year than they do in a historic 2018 year for them by adopting something similar to GamePass, I feel like Sony would be rushing to do so. Maybe they are waiting to see how it impacts Microsoft and the overall market, maybe they are waiting to announce it as a new feature coming alongside the PS5 - I don't know. But it seems like there are a lot more nuances to this than what the OP suggests even though I have no qualified rebuttal. It seems like they would make more money by doing this, but they aren't I have to assume for some reason.

Is it a good reason? We will see.
 

dom

▲ Legend ▲
Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
10,453
Do we even know that Gamepass with it's subscription count is even making money? I would assume it's losing money atm until they can significantly boost the sub numbers.
 

PopsMaellard

The Fallen
Oct 27, 2017
3,361
Pretty low as Sony's games have generally been of higher value than Microsoft's games this generation.

Why would you include games like God of War and Spider-Man if you know you'll sell 10 million + copies of them?

Yikes. It's not like MS is going to shut down Gamepass if the next Xbox becomes the most successful platform.
 

Herey

Unshakable Resolve
Member
Jan 10, 2019
3,412
I believe so, yeah. Every big entertainment corp has a dream of a recurrent revenue stream utopia and they're all jumping into it face first. There is crazy money being thrown around.
Sony will make money hand over fist regardless. They don't need to do this to survive or anything like that, they will highly likely be market leader again and a lot of fans (me included) will probably be happy. They could just make more whilst providing more options for people to consume their content.