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Analogue announces the Mega Sg (shipping early, March 25th)
- Thread starter ShinJohnpv
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New Mega SG Firmware is live.
https://support.analogue.co/hc/en-us/articles/360024836892-Mega-Sg-Firmware-Update-v4-3
https://support.analogue.co/hc/en-us/articles/360024836892-Mega-Sg-Firmware-Update-v4-3
Forgive my dumbassery if this is a stupid question, but could Sega not provide ... wrong word for it probably .... the schematics of the original hardware so people could basically remake the original hardware 1:1 then add whatever extra after to make them look good on HDTV's ? Would legal stuff make this problematic, or just remaking the original hardware be far too expensive? I'm completely dumb on the logistics of these things, but I see Sega promoting these emulator boxes (well this Analogue one is different for sure), I wonder why they dont recreate the old machines?
Many of the processors on the Sega Genesis are off the shelf components that Sega did not make, that have been out of print for decades now. For example, the best way to source a YM2612 to build an FM Synth machine is to literally desolder it from the genesis, because Yamaha hasn't produced that chip in decades.
There are already new motherboard gerber files online. if you wanted, you could build an entirely new sega genesis from scratch, you just have to source the out of print micro processors. Fabricating new processors from scratch is super expensive, you can't really just produce a few, because they take an entire custom-configured plant to produce. So you have to produce large quantities to order. Doing this for lots and lots of chips becomes prohibitively expensive. When these off-the-shelf chips were being produced, they were used in all sorts of electronic components, not just Sega Genesis systems, and that made producing them economically viable. That entire market doesn't exist anymore, nobody is looking for a 4 channel OPL synth chip today. That's why clones are usually System On A Chip clones. They all source from the same chinese manufacturer who has a plant that has been producing sega genesis clones that take all the other chips and condenses them into one compatible, but aesthetically different chip that is "good enough." The use of these chips makes using Sega's old schematic unnecessary.
FPGA is basically reprogrammable hardware. It's hardware that can be physically configured, to become other hardware. What the Mega SG uses is a highly accurate, highly compatible cloned image of the original chips, that get more accurate as updates are produced. FPGA is the cheapest, best option to doing essentially what you're asking.
As for why Sega uses emulation boxes rather than FPGA -- FPGA is more expensive. Rather than going with reprogrammable hardware, Sega (and Nintendo and Sony) feel it's cheaper to get a comparatively much more powerful mobile processor these days, and just run accurate software instead. This takes much more hardware oomph to do, but we're talking scales of comparison here, being several millions of times faster than a Sega Genesis is still completely pathetic hardware for today's modern processors. Cycle accurate emulation is much more demanding, but the laymen can't see that level of fidelity anyway, even if they can notice a step up from SOACs. The Mega SG is a premium product, kinda like the megadrive equivalent of an audiophile pair of headphones.
Well that thread was in Hangouts so I'm hoping things will be different here since I posted it in the main Gaming thread. But yes, thank you. lol
Thanks for the great explanation. FPGA does seem like the way forward for perfect/near-perfection accuracy then, more expensive sure but like you say, premium product but the results are great.
I wish I still had all my mega drive games as I would buy this in a heartbeat, although id be playing with filthy PAL versions.
A lot of PAL games were multi region, so with the Mega SG I'm now finally enjoying mine at 60hz.
There are some PAL games which do not support running at 60hz (like Virtua Racing). One thing Dark1x mentioned in his review, which I don't think has been mentioned elsewhere, is that if you're playing a game such as this then it would be best to switch the system to output at 50hz otherwise you'll get judder.
If a megadrive game is PAL optimized, then there is nothing filthy about the version at all. PAL optimized games run at the correct speed when played on a 50hz television, to be PAL optimized meant the programmer took into consideration the difference in timing and ensured the game ran at the correct speed no matter where played.
If the game weren't PAL optimized, that would mean it would run slower on a PAL television because it would be driven at 50 hz, but the modern HDTV standard is 60 hz world wide. Which would mean, even if you had un-optimized PAL games, you could just check the option in the menu for the Mega SG to force it to run at 60 hz, and your PAL cart would play at the correct speed on a modern television.
I recall one of the videos I watched mentioning that Analogue was intending to make it so settings would automatically migrate from firmware version to firmware version. Any word as to whether this version includes that feature?
Exactly. A lot of early carts released in PAL regions even use the same chip across all regions! Revenge of Shinobi and Shadow Dancer, for instance, are world-wide.
Couldn't smaller, lower cost FPGAs be designed to replace individual components? For example, an FPGA that sockets into the YM2612 location on the PCB?
Sure, it's being done already. https://hotrodarcade.com/products/new-atari-quad-pokey-eliminator-replacement-board
YM2612 is dirt common and like a dollar or two though, no reason for that one.
I still haven't received mine, despite FedEx support telling me that they'd deliver today. I've been home all day, with that purple slip taped to my door. I did get a bill in the mail though, for roughly $100 in various import fees. So that part of their service was successful.
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Did they say they were going to refund you? You had to pay for shipping back to them right? They covered the shipping for your replacement back to you right? Man... what a mess. Hope I get the model I ordered so I don't have to deal with that crap.
Because I'm international, I have to pay up front, which is unfortunate.
There's an earlier post from me where I had them clarify that the shipping expense would be covered before I did anything.
I'm just going to keep the thread updated on my status for posterity.
I'll stop once everything is settled, but there are still three things I await:
1. The tracking number and the item itself
2. The shipping refund to be processed.
3. The package to arrive free of customs charges.
I know this stuff is a downer to read about and it feels like I'm asking a lot of a small company, but people should be made aware, I feel.
I remain optimistic it will work out.
I don't think you're asking a lot. I think it's fair for even small companies to have a plan in place for resolving issues like this. They should be prepared and even expect this to happen to some degree.
There was an earlier post in this thread that stated I was and I don't want to perceived that way. I don't want to appear indignant. People stop listening.
Well that's unfair to you then. You have every right and any company worth while staying in business should have a basic plan to handle such a simple and common issue. I think you're doing a good job in keeping people updated on how this situation is handled because if nobody sees it then people can fall into the same trap and the problem won't get fixed if people don't raise it to be an issue. So I support you keeping an update on what happens in your situation. Don't let people discourage you from doing the right thing. There are those here who appreciate it. I may be fortunate enough to have mine but that doesn't mean something like this couldn't happen to me in the future so I like being aware of how things work in case something does go wrong.
Nice! Hopefully I'm in your shoes one day. Did they refund shipping yet?
Actually these issues are related. The (stock) Genesis does a sort of weird not-quite-hard reset into Master System mode that boots it into Master System mode that the Everdrive triggers when it's set to load a Master System game. This aspect of the hardware isn't replicated on the X'Eye (it's either full hard-reset, which just puts you back at the Everdrive main menu in Genesis mode; or soft-reset, which isn't a reset that goes far enough to check if the system should change from one mode to the other, doing little more than changing the currently running program's state).
Unsurprisingly, the Mega Sg does attempt Everdrive compatibility but it doesn't do it in a way that replicates the original hardware, since it has its own firmware that would get in the way of doing so the way the stock Genesis would -- hence why the reset works.
This would mean that an sms adapter wouldn't work on the x'eye right?
And they confirmed they will be sending me US buttons so I can convert my EUR to a US version. I think that's the best outcome for everyone involved, as I'm not inconvenienced by shipping it back and waiting for a replacement and they don't have to cover shipping costs back and forth.
That also means I can finally unbox mine tonight, so I'm a little excited. Sorry Sapiens that your issue with them continues... Aeana that was nice enough to give you a free controller though.
More than the headphones, I feel like the stronger comparison is - and this was something Analogue's CEO said to me in an interview last year - like - the official retro micro-consoles are the equivilant of the sorts of cheap record/vinyl players you find in stores as ideal Christmas gifts for $40 or what have you; record players with features like bluetooth connectivity and stuff. They're cheaper and simpler, they don't guarantee accuracy, but they offer the illusion of an old-school experience. The Mega Sg and Super Nt are the equivalent of the new record players that cost hundreds and are actually accurate modern recreations of players from decades ago.
The analogy fits I feel because these are about recreating retro experiences, but for different people different levels of fidelity are required/desired.
No, it does work. The issue is specifically that the Everdrive first boots into Genesis mode when it's presenting the list of games to load in. The X'Eye doesn't let it reboot into Master System mode. A Master System adapter just goes right into Master System mode -- this is done based on the signal from some specific traces in the cartridge pinout. It's true that some later Genesis revisions don't support the mode due to dropping the relevant cartridge traces to make the unit more compact (in particular Nomad and model 3 units) but everything else does what you'd expect, the X'Eye included (which I can verify first-hand with my old Tototek adapter).
First jailbreak is out. Load Genny/Megadrive roms direct from SD, no GG/SMS/1000 yet.
https://github.com/SmokeMonsterPacks/Mega-Sg-Jailbreak
EDIT: SUPPORTS Colecovision, SMS, Game Gear. I read the README before it got committed, that's why I said Genesis only!
https://github.com/SmokeMonsterPacks/Mega-Sg-Jailbreak
EDIT: SUPPORTS Colecovision, SMS, Game Gear. I read the README before it got committed, that's why I said Genesis only!
SmokeMonster said:
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Firmware elves like holidays. Last time was Valentines day I think.
It will, no worries.
Cool! Will still be using my x7 for savestate support, but eff yes!
Interesting. Is there any pros/cons to using the jailbroken FW compared to say an everdrive?
To download it go to the changelog, click JB7.3 and then select download on the next screen. Clicking on the file in the updating firmware section brings you to a 404 currently.
In this case, probably not much other than the Everdrive X7 save states.
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