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Americans, do you pay more or less tax than Canadians?

Would you pay more or less tax if you lived in Canada?

  • I would pay less income tax in Canada

    Votes: 34 27.0%

  • I would pay more income tax in Canada

    Votes: 92 73.0%
  • Total voters
    126
Firestorm

Firestorm

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,708
Vancouver, BC
When health care gets brought up, I often hear "it's not free health care, they pay for it with their taxes!" which is true, but also a little disingenuous. After all, as an American you pay tax too. People always seem to think that Canadians pay far higher taxes than Americans do, but I realized that for the most part, it looks like Americans making under $200,000 in the US are taxed more than Canadians at the same income level? And we don't need to pay for additional health insurance on top of that (though we don't have universal dental or pharmacare for some reason which we gotta fix).

So try this.
  1. Check what you'd pay in income tax in your city here (use the green line for total income tax, not the big blue text): https://smartasset.com/taxes/income-taxes
  2. Then see how much you'd pay in income tax in British Columbia, Canada: https://simpletax.ca/calculator
Where would you pay more in tax?

I chose BC for this because that's where I live. I tried a bunch of different cities in the US, and aside from states without income tax it was hard to land on one where I'd pay less. Less than 4% of Americans make over $200,000 a year.
 
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Deleted member 23212

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 28, 2017
11,225
I'm from Ontario, so I say do that instead of BC! (Also, universal dental/pharmacare were part of the last election in my province, but the Conservatives won and that ended up not happening).
 
turbobrick

turbobrick

Member
Oct 25, 2017
13,063
Phoenix, AZ
Firestorm said:
I'm interested in which states! And remember to use the green line at Total Income Taxes and not the big blue Federal Income Tax + FICA number.
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Arizona.

Yeah, I used the green number for US. And I assume the Canadian number I had to convert to CAD, and used the Total tax number.

edit: forgot to convert back to USD. But its still more by about $300
 
Uncivilized Elk

Uncivilized Elk

Banned
Jun 22, 2019
3,660
Since I pay the full FICA value due to self-employment, I pay $500 more in the US (although about double that value goes toward state taxes in my case). This is after converting currency. As someone who can't afford health insurance and suffers from debilitating depression, god I wish I lived in Canada right now.
 
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BuckRogers

Member
Apr 5, 2018
774
I'd pay a lot more (live in Massachusetts), but I'm married and have a pretty high household income.

I'd obviously prefer the Canadian system, though, and I'd like the US to have a better progressive tax system even without health care factored in.

One question is the right way to do this when considering exchange rates. 100k US is more money, which means that people making that much are theoretically in a higher tax bracket than people making 100K Canadian. Not sure if straight conversion is correct, but feels like that should be accounted for. I thought maybe converting and then looking at total effective tax rate? Doing that my tax rate jumps ~15% in the Canadian system. Still preferable given where my money would be going!
 
Core Zero

Core Zero

Member
Oct 25, 2017
62
If I'm reading it right, I'd actually pay about $2000 less in BC and about the same in Ontario, coming from Massachusetts.

Of course, a huge part of the problem isn't that the US can't afford universal healthcare, it's that we have to budget it alongside our absurd military budget, which I assume (though do not have info on hand) is a much much smaller percentage of Canada's national spending budget.

BuckRogers said:
I'd pay a lot more (live in Massachusetts), but I'm married and have a pretty high household income.

I'd obviously prefer the Canadian system, though, and I'd like the US to have a better progressive tax system even without health care factored in.

One question is the right way to do this when considering exchange rates. 100k US is more money, which means that people making that much are theoretically in a higher tax bracket than people making 100K Canadian. Not sure if straight conversion is correct, but feels like that should be accounted for. I thought maybe converting and then looking at total effective tax rate? Doing that my tax rate jumps ~15% in the Canadian system. Still preferable given where my money would be going!
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Oh I didn't even consider exchange rate, that probably means I pay more in Canada. Still, I'd be happy to do it if it were going toward Healthcare over weapons of mass destruction.
 

Deleted member 70788

Jun 2, 2020
9,620
I would pay a lot more in Canada. Though I would also get healthcare right? So my health insurance costs would offset that a bit though, still be out a lot more (about $20,000 more).
 
TheWooniestWoona

TheWooniestWoona

Member
Oct 27, 2017
5,777
If I do the currency conversion before comparing, then it turns out I'd only pay like $300 USD more in Canada. Not too bad.

That's comparing from KCMO, where we have an additional city tax that most cities don't have. That's probably why it's closer than most people's results.
 
Flambe

Flambe

Faster than Light
Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,172
Cheating cause I'm Canadian, but comparing myself to Seattle (arbitrary? I dunno, am on west coast also) my take-home pay is almost $20K CAD less in Canada than what I'd get down there. That's paying 28k more in taxes than I would.
 
Xbox Live Mike

Xbox Live Mike

Prophet of Truth
The Fallen
Oct 29, 2017
2,434
USA
2k more but wouldn't I be better off with better health care in Canada? I have insurance through work but still a high deductible.
 
Doom

Doom

Member
Oct 27, 2017
2,812
New Jersey
My tax rate is 34-35% in NJ US

Depending on the province, it would be anywhere from 29-36% in Canada, assuming average tax rate.

Not really entirely surprised. In the US we pay a ton in taxes to the military. If you take that out, we could easily pay for a lot of luxuries other countries have such as free healthcare, or have a comparatively low tax rate. Unfortunately we aren't dropping the military industrial complex any time soon.
 
.Detective.

.Detective.

Member
Oct 27, 2017
9,660
Core Zero said:
If I'm reading it right, I'd actually pay about $2000 less in BC and about the same in Ontario, coming from Massachusetts.

Of course, a huge part of the problem isn't that the US can't afford universal healthcare, it's that we have to budget it alongside our absurd military budget, which I assume (though do not have info on hand) is a much much smaller percentage of Canada's national spending budget.



Oh I didn't even consider exchange rate, that probably means I pay more in Canada. Still, I'd be happy to do it if it were going toward Healthcare over weapons of mass destruction.
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In 2019, total health expenditure in Canada was expected to reach $264 billion, or $ 7,068 per person(out of a population of 37.5M). That $7k per person doesn't necessarily mean that someone will be using only $7k worth of coverage or getting maxed out at that, but more like that is what it costs on average to allow everyone to have universal healthcare to cover everything. And if you make a low level income below a certain amount, you don't get taxed that.

Essentially if I am healthy and have no issues, I can rest assured that my portion of the tax investments will be going to someone else. And maybe down the road, someone elses' helps support me when I am in need.

It's done through what we call the "single payer system", where in the bill cost of medical coverage or procedures, is sent to a single payer, hence the government(who regulates the cost amount), rather than the patient.

Healthcare is about 11% of our GDP.

Health spending | CIHI

Explore information on health spending, including reports, data tables and other key resources.
www.cihi.ca www.cihi.ca
 
Hexa

Hexa

Saw the truth behind the copied door
Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,729
I pay about $6500 more in BC, Canada.
 
Sheepinator

Sheepinator

Member
Jul 25, 2018
27,941
It's a tough comparison because whatever someone in the US pays in taxes, they may end up paying thousands more out of pocket if they have a health issue that year, or nothing more if they don't.

Also, most Americans healthcare premiums are paid by the employer, which counts it as compensation, which is therefore money the employer could afford to pay the employee if that employee had access to universal healthcare.
 
Uncivilized Elk

Uncivilized Elk

Banned
Jun 22, 2019
3,660
Sheepinator said:
Also, most Americans healthcare premiums are paid by the employer, which counts it as compensation, which is therefore money the employer could afford to pay the employee if that employee had access to universal healthcare.
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I mean, employers also pay half the FICA tax, so if in theory that money would be going toward your pay directly instead, people's tax burdens would be 7.65% higher (in other words, if there was a system where employees and self-employed people pay the same FICA taxes). That would probably change a lot of the answers in this thread.
 
captive

captive

Member
Oct 25, 2017
16,991
Houston
Interesting I would pay double. But like 90% of that is from which province I pick. Whereas I don't pay state or local income tax in Texas.

Are there property taxes in Canada?
 
Wingfan19

Wingfan19

Layout Designer
Verified
Oct 25, 2017
9,752
Bothell WA
You also need to convert your income from US to Canadian which might push you into a different tax bracket. As of now, I'd pay more to move from the Seattle area to Vancouver.
 
Nesotenso

Nesotenso

Member
Oct 26, 2017
2,072
Incomes and salaries are also lesser in Canada then in the US. Especially in Engineering. Also the number of jobs available is comparatively less.
 
TheGrue

TheGrue

Member
Oct 25, 2017
689
One other thing to consider is sales tax. If I remember in places like Ontario, you pay a provincial sales tax and some other sales tax (federal?).
 
GoldenEye 007

GoldenEye 007

Roll Tide, Y'all!
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
13,833
Texas
Shows our household would be paying about $10,000 more. I'm in TX so no state income tax, although property taxes are high at around 2.7-3% depending on city/county. The also weird thing is that both my wife and I are exempt from FICA taxes, so that would represent a larger gap too.
 
AlmostMilk

AlmostMilk

Member
Oct 27, 2017
734
Would be paying approximately $600 more per year in taxes. But I wouldn't be paying over $500 per month for health insurance so...
 
Dyle

Dyle

One Winged Slayer
The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
29,904
I'd pay about ~US$1,000 more, but looking at a quick salary comparison I would likely be making significantly less before tax working the same job in Canada, so *shrug*, it'd probably be about the same tax burden
 
Silver-Streak

Silver-Streak

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,007
I'd pay under 2k more in taxes. I'd save far more in Health Insurance costs, all other things being the same.
 
Mortemis

Mortemis

One Winged Slayer
The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
7,412
I'd pay quite a bit more in Canada, but the main difference is no state income tax in Washington vs a decent province tax in BC. I checked and if I lived in California, I'd be paying more in the US vs Canada.
 
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