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scarlet

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,624
www.indy100.com

American woman sparks furious backlash for ‘tone-deaf’ viral thread about moving to Bali

An American woman has sparked heated debate on social media after a thread about her move to Bali went viral.It seems she may have picked the wrong platform to gush about her new home. While her 20-tweet thread may have worked as an Instagram caption about making dreams come true, over on...


An American woman has sparked heated debate on social media after a thread about her move to Bali went viral.
It seems she may have picked the wrong platform to gush about her new home. While her 20-tweet thread may have worked as an Instagram caption about making dreams come true, over on Twitter people had other thoughts.
The woman in question has since locked her account, but here's a summary of the thread: after spending most of 2019 out of work, she and her girlfriend decided to try out Bali for six months, where she became a self-employed graphic designer and managed to live in a "treehouse" for just $400, compared to a $1,300 LA studio they were in before. They have now been there for a year, and she says that they are living an "elevated lifestyle" and that Bali was "the perfect medicine" for her physical and emotional health.

She lists the benefits of living in Bali as: safety, low cost of living, luxury lifestyle, queer-friendly, and goes on to share her positive experience as a Black woman with the Black community there. To close out, she links to her ebook Our Bali Life is Yours which helps other people to achieve the same dream. It is currently for sale for $30.
The backlash was immediate, with thousands of replies and quote-tweets, many of which were highlighting the impact that relatively wealthy American migrants have on local communities and gentrification.





Some tried to suggest these points were the equivalent to anti-immigration sentiment in the US, but others highlighted that this ignores the reality of the different power dynamics at play.


Her comments about living in luxury were also labelled tone-deaf, given that Indonesia is Southeast Asia's most populous nation and its largest economy, yet around a quarter of the population lives just above the poverty line, with almost 10 per cent living in poverty.


People who are from Indonesia themselves also highlighted how different life is in the country for those without the writer's American privilege, and the potential damage of encouraging more Americans to move there.



Others took the opportunity to point out the historical and ongoing violence and oppression which exists in Indonesia, but which she didn't touch upon at all in her thread.



The Papua Conflict in particular has led to accusations against the Indonesian government of human rights violations including torture, extrajudicial killings and politically motivated arrests.
According to a 2019 report from Amnesty, "the government failed to protect human rights defenders, and restricted the rights to freedom of expression, peaceful assembly and association."
While Bali is known to be more progressive, especially on LGBTQ+ issues, Indonesian law still discriminates against people for their sexual orientation and fails to protect them from hate crimes and homophobic attacks.
Despite many people branding the thread out-of-touch, there were also many who defended the writer, saying it shouldn't be the responsibility of a Black queer woman to fix systemic issues affecting the country.




Before locking her account, the user posted one last tweet which seemed to acknowledge the backlash, saying: "The conversations being had here are valid. Though they aren't the conversations I was having today. They've been seen and heard. Just sharing my story with people."
Meanwhile, "Bali" continues to trend on Twitter as people furiously debate who's right and who's wrong in this complex scenario.

Interesting case. I've seen so many black Americans jumped out defending this girl while ignoring her mistakes. And even saying that Indonesians are white.

edit:





also:




He's wrong tho.
 
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antonz

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
5,309
Its a complicated thing. I mean I was looking at a 10 cheapest places to live in the US article yesterday and strangely enough at Number 10 was Bali. They admitted yeah Bali isnt in the US but then went on to hype up its cost of living etc.

Its really not unusual for these kind of posts or articles to pop up about all sorts of countries where Americans can live very cheap while also essentially living in luxury compared to the Native population. They obviously never go into the effects on locals etc. They are trying to sell Americans on a move not concern them with the locals
 

svacina

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
4,439
Its a complicated thing. I mean I was looking at a 10 cheapest places to live in the US article yesterday and strangely enough at Number 10 was Bali. They admitted yeah Bali isnt in the US but then went on to hype up its cost of living etc.

Its really not unusual for these kind of posts or articles to pop up about all sorts of countries where Americans can live very cheap while also essentially living in luxury compared to the Native population. They obviously never go into the effects on locals etc. They are trying to sell Americans on a move not concern them with the locals
That's not really complicated at all though, that's just shitty.
 

Deimos

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,769
And you're behaving like a dumbass piece of shit.
tenor.gif
 

The Adder

Member
Oct 25, 2017
18,105
And you came into this thread to
I wish I were clairvoyant enough to enter a topic for the purpose of pointing out an error that only exists in the contents of the topic's opening post. Sadly, however, I am not psychic, and it requires coming into the topic and reading the opening post to note an error made in that post.
 
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scarlet

scarlet

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,624
Its a complicated thing. I mean I was looking at a 10 cheapest places to live in the US article yesterday and strangely enough at Number 10 was Bali. They admitted yeah Bali isnt in the US but then went on to hype up its cost of living etc.

Its really not unusual for these kind of posts or articles to pop up about all sorts of countries where Americans can live very cheap while also essentially living in luxury compared to the Native population. They obviously never go into the effects on locals etc. They are trying to sell Americans on a move not concern them with the locals

 

antonz

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
5,309

That is a sign she needs to go for sure. When I was speaking to the complications it is that some of these regions deliberately put out these kind of "Articles" to attract people in. This woman is clearly just your average shitty American tourist who feels she doesn't need to comply with the laws
 

WrenchNinja

Member
Oct 25, 2017
18,741
Canada
Overstaying your Visa and not paying taxes and trying to bring more people in like this, this is pretty cut and dry Westerner thinking they can do whatever they want in a poorer country with grifting bullshit. Laughable trying to use her race and orientation as a reason people are attacking her.
 

el jacko

Member
Dec 12, 2017
947
Based on your quotations, a lot of what's mentioned as criticism in the article seems kinda overblown? I mean, yeah she's rich compared to most Indonesians and has the privilege of moving easily and taking advantage of relative cost of living discrepancies. But to suggest she, this individual, must personally bear the burdens of the US cold war-era, colonialist/imperialist policies, is a bit much.

That being said:

hyping up your own schemes to violate local law is BS and deserves all the ridicule you can get.
 

gozu

Member
Oct 27, 2017
10,329
America
I don't support violating local laws or tax evasion.

Nothing wrong with living in luxury if you can afford it though.
 

Nooblet

Member
Oct 25, 2017
13,632
On one hand I don't have a problem with people going to cheaper countries to live a better/comfortable life. Tax evasion, well that's problematic and shitty. The other problem I guess is gentrification, while the quality of life of the locals does not improve despite that.

On the other hand I also have a problem with how when someone wants to do it the other way around, i.e. someone wants to go from a poor country to a wealthy country, the wealthy country and its people shut their gates down by making immigration and jobs harder for them. I've done this i.e. gone to a more expensive country (originally from India, but now in UK) and it's been a difficult 10 years for me.
 
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Deleted member 5086

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
4,571
I sympathise with a queer Black woman wanting to leave America and have a more comfortable and oppression free life (I am one myself). But what she's doing and encouraging others to do is exploiting the local community, so that's not something I can support. South East Asian lives matter too.

Don't do this.
 

Kinthey

Avenger
Oct 27, 2017
22,310
To gush about the country and then be all confused about why you should pay local taxes seems pretty hypocritical
 
Oct 27, 2017
1,430
I think in order to defend her you have to ignore the fact that there are actual legal ways to do this, Barbados for example had a scheme offering 1 year 'WFH' visas to people looking to do their existing job remotely.
 

CaviarMeths

Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
10,655
Western Canada
I'm not really qualified to speak on any of the info relating to her experience as a black queer woman, but the other stuff is pretty distasteful. Gentrification is a problem whether it happens in the US or elsewhere. Shilling a book that encourages others to evade local taxes, cheat the immigration system, and ignore public health guidelines while doing it seems pretty tone-deaf indeed.
 

gozu

Member
Oct 27, 2017
10,329
America
Let's hope you never complained about gentrification before, because that would be embarrassing.

I have been both victim and gentrifier to be honest. In that order.

Gentrification absolutely sucks for the non-gentrifiers who don't own residential or business property in that area.

In theory, if the neighborhood is an egalitarian Utopia, all residents would share in the sales profits and wouldn't be economically desperate and forced to sell thanks to a social safety net So if nobody wants things to change, nobody sells.

If, on the other hand, that neighborhood is rife with inequality and rich people own most of it, (this is the more common scenario) then almost everybody except them gets Fucked with a capital F. This is very bad.

So, to use a gun metaphor, one could argue that gentrification doesn't kill, social inequality kills.

It's more of a symptom than a root cause of a disease. You can't treat it properly without addressing the underlying rot: Wealth inequality.

I hope this explains how I feel about it...
 

KillLaCam

Prophet of Truth
Member
Oct 25, 2017
15,386
Seoul
I'm all for minorities escaping the US any way they can. For me this would be "okay" but still bad ,if she wasn't doing it in a poor country and selling a book trying to convince many other ppl do it. Selling the book makes it a thousand times worse. Especially telling ppl ways to dodge covid restrictions.

Like yeah a lot of ppl have to do some similar things when they try to stay in an new country, but don't write a book about it and act like its some good thing. Definitely don't keep doing those things when you're clearly in the position to fully support yourself and lifestyle the correct way. Seems like she never even had the intentions to follow the laws and stuff. Its multiple times worse because she's doing it in a poor country.
 
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Bobbyleejones

Banned
Aug 25, 2019
2,581
The bigger question is tax evasion in a country where apparently the natives are struggling also. This is what companies to when they off shore accounts to avoid us taxes but she's still paying us taxes (which is slightly different). My question is state if Bali is so cheap why not Bali taxes (unless I'm missing the point). Is it because she still want to make a USD income?
 

RowdyReverb

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,930
Austin, TX
I have been both victim and gentrifier to be honest. In that order.

Gentrification absolutely sucks for the non-gentrifiers who don't own residential or business property in that area.

In theory, if the neighborhood is an egalitarian Utopia, all residents would share in the sales profits and wouldn't be economically desperate and forced to sell thanks to a social safety net So if nobody wants things to change, nobody sells.

If, on the other hand, that neighborhood is rife with inequality and rich people own most of it, (this is the more common scenario) then almost everybody except them gets Fucked with a capital F. This is very bad.

So, to use a gun metaphor, one could argue that gentrification doesn't kill, social inequality kills.

It's more of a symptom than a root cause of a disease. You can't treat it properly without addressing the underlying rot: Wealth inequality.

I hope this explains how I feel about it...
Well put
 

gozu

Member
Oct 27, 2017
10,329
America
The bigger question is tax evasion in a country where apparently the natives are struggling also. This is what companies to when they off shore accounts to avoid us taxes but she's still paying us taxes (which is slightly different). My question is state if Bali is so cheap why not Bali taxes (unless I'm missing the point). Is it because she still want to make a USD income?
Multiple reasons:

The Us demands you pay at least as much in taxes as you would if you lived here, even if you live in Dubai where there are no taxes. But if the country where you live charged higher taxes than the USA, you're completely off the IRS hook.


It's easier to pay us taxes than Bali taxes.

Bali taxes will very probably be (much) higher than us taxes, which are among the lowest in the world. so they would lose 💰 <— this is the most likely reason

edit: might be wrong. Bali taxes for non residents are only a flat 20% . Residents pay up to 30% which is lower than I thought.

They would also have to make the effort to file the necessary paperwork both with Bali , so they can pay their taxes there which is extra effort.

AND they also must file with the federal government, to get reimbursed for their American income taxes. Otherwise they'd be paying income taxes twice.

lastly if they pay their income taxes to the us, as they are doing, those taxes count for their US social security checks later on. Maybe If they pay them to Bali, they don't accrue those credits? Not sure about this last one.
 
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Kotto

CEO of Traphouse Networks
Member
Nov 3, 2017
4,466
It is highly weird, annoying, and uncomfortable that we know for sure that white people have done this a ton and have made it some hobby and we are now having a thread where two black queer folks do it and we got people in here calling Kristen Gray a "girl" and a "cunt."

For the record, she is wild as fuck for finessing Indonesia and pretty much becoming a piece of the boogeyman the GOP here loves to portray. She deserves the dragging she got. But I am speaking towards a specific thing here.

Why is it now we are getting this type of a response from people when some of these Westerners dragging her I know never spent a keystroke dragging and shaming white people who have become sexual mongers, exploiters, begging backpackers, or nomads? And I think that is why some people came to her defense because it is weird that some of the people who are so outraged are white folks that you can tell from a quick skim of their Twitter accounts aren't really talking about other injustices going on (like the redfolklore account) but they coincidentally chimed in here. We are seeing that in this thread and the tweets.

I will say this though: keep that same energy.
 
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krazen

Member
Oct 27, 2017
13,142
Gentrified Brooklyn
First, ugh...Tariq Nasheed is a chronic homophobe and mysogynist and the only reason he's on the side of the queer women for once is because his grift is based around being a socially aware online black 'activist' (troll) and this is easy points and a example he can point out that he's not those things when he calls black women in interracial relationships bed wenches.

That said, he's got a slight point. Even in this post (that cunt comment) its not hard to feel there's an undercurrent that has as much to do with who they are (young attractive queer black women) as the fact they are acting like assholes. Not saying its intentional, but guaranteed for this couple there's 100 of the white equivalent who will get no smoke. But maybe the argument is that they are smart enough not to sell it as a life hack.

On the asshole comment, American POC's need to understand that we too can engage in behavior that feeds into many of the systemic problems we face locally and abroad. I don't necessarily blame them...with all the bullshit they've dealt with who would not want some of the same 'whiteness' benefits that still work to an extent as an American abroad. But not a good look and feedbacks into the system that oppresses POC worldwide. Not as if Indonesia wasn't colonized and stripped of resources by Europe like the rest of the non white world
 
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scarlet

scarlet

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,624
I'm not native speaker. May I ask why girl is offensive?

I have no harm intention, cuz I used girl a lot referring to a woman. IIRC I rarely use woman.

Can someone enlighten me?
 
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scarlet

scarlet

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,624
Why is it now we are getting this type of a response from people when some of these people dragging her I know never spent a keystroke dragging and shaming white people who have become sexual mongers, exploiters, begging backpackers, or nomads?

You're wrong. You can ask the Balinese in this thread about white people.
 

Peebs

Alt-Account
Banned
Dec 16, 2020
119
It is highly weird, annoying, and uncomfortable that we know for sure that white people have done this a ton and have made it some hobby and we are now having a thread where two black queer folks do it and we got people in here calling Kristen Gray a "girl" and a "cunt."

For the record, she is wild as fuck for finessing Indonesia and pretty much becoming a piece of the boogeyman the GOP here loves to portray. She deserves the dragging she got. But I am speaking towards a specific thing here.

Yeah, this thread is making me side-eye a bunch of people.

She's behaving like a clueless, privileged, girl.

Like what's the point of this but to antagonise a user and further reinforce the infantilization of women?
 

Kotto

CEO of Traphouse Networks
Member
Nov 3, 2017
4,466
I'm not native speaker. May I ask why girl is offensive?

I have no harm intention, cuz I used girl a lot referring to a woman. IIRC I rarely use woman.

Can someone enlighten me?
You're just infantilizing someone and it just reminds me of when white people talked down on black men in the US by calling them a "boy." It can be used as a racial/misogynist dogwhistle.

That is why The Adder reacted the way he did because the person he quoted double downed on using "girl" and even went as far to italicize it.
You're wrong. You can ask the Balinese in this thread about white people.
I'm talking specifically about Westerners. Balinese people have no reason to hold back, obviously. I'll edit that to be more clear.
 
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scarlet

scarlet

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,624
You're just infantilizing someone and it just reminds me of when white people talked down on black men in the US by calling them a "boy." It can be used as a racial/misogynist dogwhistle.

That is why The Adder reacted the way he did because the person he quoted double downed on using "girl" and even went as far to italicize it.

I'm talking specifically about Westerners. Balinese people have no reason to hold back, obviously. I'll edit that to be more clear.

Ah I see. TIL something new. Never even heard the word infantilizing til now.

Wasn't my intention to do that. Didn't understand the outrage. Now I do.