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Corralx

Member
Aug 23, 2018
1,176
London, UK
What is this showing for a developer? What conclusions can you make from it?
That ray tracing exists and it's realtime?

An experienced graphics developer with knowledge of raytracing and existing hardware can actually guess quite a bit of what's going on.
Plus most of the graphics developers target of this presentation already have access to the documentation, if not the hardware as well.
I think ppl are just reading way more than they should into this. Just like yesterday's presentation from Sony.

Why would developers of all people need such video to know what capabilities RT has?

Because one thing is to read the doc, another is to actually see the hw in action?
This is a little showcase for ppl that don't have yet access to the hardware.
It's not eye candy for the consumer, it's a recording of a stress demo likely built for internal benchmarks and testing, that they decided to show to the public anyway, as a visual side to the technical presentation.
There's plenty of technical videos from Nvidia showcasing new features that are even shittier than this. And yet they do a good job at conveying the information they need to convey at the their target.

I mean, it's absolutely fine to not be interested in what's shown. This just has a very specific target and reason to exists.
It's like being a graphics developer and be disappointed at the lack of depth in a youtube video like DF.
The target is completely different. They're videos made by journalists targeting enthusiast consumers, and they do a fine job at that.

Again compare it with Nvidia ones that are way more coherent and artistically done better.

Sure but these videos are marketing material to sell the newly released GPUs. This video by AMD is not made by the marketing department, is a visual side to the technical presentation.
Do you think when the hardware actually ships AMD won't have something more appealing to the customers, between tech demos and games?
And still, we're talking of AMD. Their marketing budget is probably less than a tenth of Nvidia anyway lol.
 

low-G

Member
Oct 25, 2017
8,144
It seems that they are relying more or mirrored reflections rather than anything diffuse because you can get away with less rays per pixel and minimal temporal processing.
 

ByWatterson

▲ Legend ▲
Banned
Oct 28, 2017
2,302
I think raytracing is likelier to save time in development avoiding bakes than it is to dramatically alter how graphics look.
 

gabdeg

Member
Oct 26, 2017
6,019
🐝
Looks like something off of an early 2000s graphics card box
tumblr_ojuuhtcPSO1v0jfsto8_1280.jpg


Edit: Seems like the demo is using raytracing reflections (no shit), shadows and ambient occlusion. That would explain the performance being not so great. Most games would only take one of these effects, maybe two and use them a little more sparingly.
 
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dgrdsv

Member
Oct 25, 2017
12,024
Because one thing is to read the doc, another is to actually see the hw in action?
This is a little showcase for ppl that don't have yet access to the hardware.
A YouTube video is hardly "seeing the h/w in action".
DXR and DXR h/w are available for everyone since 2018.
This demo is similar to NV's Project Sol demos, and these weren't meant for developers.

It's not eye candy for the consumer, it's a recording of a stress demo likely built for internal benchmarks and testing, that they decided to show to the public anyway, as a visual side to the technical presentation.
There's plenty of technical videos from Nvidia showcasing new features that are even shittier than this. And yet they do a good job at conveying the information they need to convey at the their target.
Well, NV's tech demos like the one for mesh shaders and, say, waveworks are clearly just that - tech demos. They don't have any sound and they are released as a part of NV SDK.
This however is not a tech demo in this sense. And the questions of why exactly it looks so bad are valid.

Sure but these videos are marketing material to sell the newly released GPUs.
NV's Star Wars RT demo was released at DXR announcement IIRC. I.e. half a year prior to Turing GPUs.
 

Lump

One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 25, 2017
16,204
It reminded me of those really old YTV 3D shorts for some reason.

 

PennyStonks

Banned
May 17, 2018
4,401
Art Style is shit. Reflections are significantly less noisy than Nvidias demos or what I was expecting. How are they getting such clear reflections?
 

ILikeFeet

DF Deet Master
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
61,987
Art Style is shit. Reflections are significantly less noisy than Nvidias demos or what I was expecting. How are they getting such clear reflections?
probably has to do with the improvements in DXR1.1. going through the AMD slides again, it seems like the update boosts efficiency by quite a bit
 

dgrdsv

Member
Oct 25, 2017
12,024
probably has to do with the improvements in DXR1.1. going through the AMD slides again, it seems like the update boosts efficiency by quite a bit
There's like zero noise in Youngblood's reflections. It has much more to do with the advancement of denoising techniques and the actual characteristics of reflective surfaces in a game.
 

Deleted member 11276

Account closed at user request
Banned
Oct 27, 2017
3,223
probably has to do with the improvements in DXR1.1. going through the AMD slides again, it seems like the update boosts efficiency by quite a bit
Hm, I think that would be the wrong priorities. They should reduce the quality to make raytracing faster so it doesn't have a big hit in performance anymore. Reflections in DXR 1.0 games are already clear enough.
 
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finalflame

Product Management
Banned
Oct 27, 2017
8,538
Me: Hey mom can we get RTX raytracing?
Mom: No, we have raytracing at home

Raytracing at home:
 

Grue

Member
Sep 7, 2018
5,008
Yikes at the video, but overall I'm totally sold on raytracing as one of our next leaps in visual quality -

Which leads me to ask: Is this something that can be added retrospectively to old titles? And if so, how easy / difficult is it to do so?

I'm thinking ahead to a dreamland of remasters and revamped classics...
 

CypherSignal

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,079
Which leads me to ask: Is this something that can be added retrospectively to old titles? And if so, how easy / difficult is it to do so?
Not easily, no.

If you have an older game that is starting on, say, a D3D9 or D3D11 codebase, and you have access to all source code plus source assets and build pipelines, you're probably looking at 6-12 person-months of programming (x3-5 for testing) at a minimum to do a conversion to D3D12 without ruining performance and having comparable functionality across the board, plus setting up all of the functionality for DXR.

Edit: I'll note that's for a GOOD implementation of DXR that actually uses raytracing. If you want some shit post-processing effect that claims to offer raytracing and kills performance all in the effort of a notably worse and/or incorrect image, sure, modders can have fun with that. But if you want real full-scene raytracing, that's what you're probably looking at.
 
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Meech

Member
Oct 29, 2017
496
That really doesn't look appealing visually. Especially in comparison to the stuff Nvidia has presented.
 

ILikeFeet

DF Deet Master
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
61,987
Yikes at the video, but overall I'm totally sold on raytracing as one of our next leaps in visual quality -

Which leads me to ask: Is this something that can be added retrospectively to old titles? And if so, how easy / difficult is it to do so?

I'm thinking ahead to a dreamland of remasters and revamped classics...
depends on what you're doing. turing the game into a hybrid RT game, probably not. but if the game is old enough, theoretically, you could go full path tracing like Quake 2. Nvidia Lightspeed Studios is doing another conversion like it of an old game
 

KORNdog

Banned
Oct 30, 2017
8,001
Minecraft RT is proof that ray tracing will be great on at least one of the machines!

Even that didn't look as good as the Nvidia demo's. And the performance sacrifice just seems unreasonable to me. I get the feeling amd are just lagging a bit in the RT area. Hopefully things mature a bit by the time these machines launch because shiny as shit assets isn't what I want tbh.

It kinda reminds me of when normal maps happened and everything had that plastic doom 3 aesthetic for a while.
 

THIJJ

Member
Oct 26, 2017
449
lmao this looked like the art they used on the GPU boxes in the 90s and early 2000s but in a video

e: definitely beaten
 
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Deleted member 25042

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 29, 2017
2,077
That youtube comment is right on

"At AMD: "Hmm we are all engineers here, don't we have a single guy that can do some art direction for a tech demo?"
Radeon old box art guy: raises hand "