AMD Radeon™ RX 6000 Reveal |OT| Hey. Listen! Choo! Choo!

NaDannMaGoGo · Oct 28, 2020

I'm whelmed. Clearly nice progress over RDNA1 and actually somewhat competitive with Nvidia. However, RT performance and more importantly DLSS are missing from these benchmarks and DLSS especially will have significant impact for those games that support it. Even the RTX 3090, which is of course very expensive, does admittedly have 50% more RAM than the 6900 XT and is well-liked for production works.

Kromis · Oct 28, 2020

VERY curious about ~~Rage mode~~ Smart Access Memory and it's implication in future applications...this is the type of synergy I've been expecting from AMD ever since they bought ATI if they weren't able to catch up to Nvidia. But now it looks like they've certainly have but with the added bonus of AMD CPU synergy!

SolarPowered · Oct 28, 2020

Frogpuppy said:
Yeah to be honest I think I'll still go with Nvidia if these two gpu were similar performance-wise.
But AMD might release their own DLSS-like thing.
I hate exclusive features. Just imagine if AMD had their own RT and DLSS and we end up with half of games only supporting Nivida and the other half only AMD.

Apparently AMD will be coming out with their own cross platform version of DLSS just like they did with freesync. PS5 and series X will likely even get it.

AMD’s new Radeon RX 6800 XT promises to go head to head with Nvidia’s RTX 3080

AMD has three new graphics cards

www.theverge.com

AMD tells me it has a new super sampling feature in testing, which is designed to increase performance during ray tracing. The company is promising its super sampling technology will be open and cross-platform, which means it could come to next-gen consoles like the Xbox Series X and PS5. AMD is working with a number of partners on this technology, and it's expecting strong industry support. Unfortunately, this won't be ready for the launch of these three new Radeon RX 6000 Series cards.

brain_stew · Oct 28, 2020

Tallshortman said:
Concern trolling includes disingenuous "concerns" which I would say includes the above post making proclamations of RT doom based on absolutely zero evidence. I can't read the posters mind but it certainly doesn't seem genuine.

Its completely genuine. I've been following the architectures of those GPUs closely for ages, watched Microsoft's full Hot Chips presentation on RDNA2 and I've been repeating for a while that there is a growing base of evidence that RT performance of RDNA2 is quite far behind Ampere.

The lack of evidence is evidence, this is their first card with hardware RT and it barely got a mention, you don't think there's a reason for that? We have huge swathes of evidence that RDNA2 RT performance doesn't match Ampere (Microsoft's architecture breakdown, Minecraft RT performance on Series X and the performance leaks for RDNA2 that were spot on all tell the same story) and this was AMD's chance to put that to bed once and for all.

Their silence told us all we need to know.

mario_O · Oct 28, 2020

Zombegoast said:
6800 is a big yikes

$80 more expensive with higher power consumption than the 3070.

4K card vs 1440p.

8GB of RAM is a joke.

Chaosblade · Oct 28, 2020

No RT performance is somewhat concerning. But that's not too big of a deal to me at least.

Those performance comparisons seem unsurprisingly tilted in AMD's favor since they seemed to have DirectStorage implemented while the Nvidia bars presumably didn't. Unbiased comparisons/reviews will probably not be as favorable to AMD.

6800 positioning seems weird. $80 on either side of the 6800XT and 3070. I feel like it should have been a bit lower.

Bluelote · Oct 28, 2020

jukeboxhero2396 said:
$80 for the twice the ram

yeah, I would start to feel uncomfortable paying $500 or more for a 8GB card at this point tbh, with AMD setting the standard to 16GB,
8GB has been mainstream for a very long time.

3070 is not an easy choice right now that's for sure.

MotherFan · Oct 28, 2020

zero71 said:
But is the 6900 a better choice than the 3080 for less money. I'm not sure the performance delta between the two will be all that great, especially with Ray Tracing.

I think for people wanting the highest they can get it is. Some people want the fastest, and a 500 dollar difference will make this a choice for them.

But for most, 3080 would be what they want I believe.

smocaine · Oct 28, 2020

I think the presentation was weak, but the cards themselves sound good. I'd rather wait for reviews anyway, than trust company slides.

Shame Super Resolution won't be there for launch. I was excited for DLSS, but I think the hype for it is a bit overblown here. When I step back and look at it, there's only like 1 or 2 games that I'd actually play that support DLSS. AMD's version being open source and cross platform is much more interesting to me.

marcbret87 · Oct 28, 2020

Tallshortman said:
Concern trolling includes disingenuous "concerns" which I would say includes the above post making proclamations of RT doom based on absolutely zero evidence. I can't read the posters mind but it certainly doesn't seem genuine.

Well, they didn't show any RT benchmarks unlike Nvidia in their presentation, so I don't think it's too much of a stretch to assume that they lag behind in that aspect.

dgrdsv · Oct 28, 2020

So AMD did a bit better in pricing than I expected but it's hard to tell how good they are without looking at proper benchmarks - of which they haven't really shown a lot.

3070 < 6800 < 3080 was expected for some time, NV will counter with GA102 based 3070Ti at $600 soon.
6800XT = 3080 was also kinda sorta expected but still we need proper benchmarks which will show us RT and how the cache thing works on all games instead of just a dozen picked by AMD.
6900XT = 3090 while being just 300W is a bit of a surprise for sure but I wonder how many of them will be available - and how many buyers will bite at $1000.

Still, a great showing for AMD and finally something to give NV a kicking in the gaming high end - something which we lacked completely since 2014.

I'm fairly certain that any of the 6800 cards will be a better purchase than 30 series cards for those who want to get himself a GPU which will eventually last them through the whole of upcoming console generation. This is an important advantage for people to consider.

ShadowSoldier89 · Oct 28, 2020

Yerffej said:
How can anyone want to bite without proper RT and DLSS info?

i dont really care about DLSS (Like at all) and even ampere cards RT performance just isnt good enough yet. So I wouldnt be stressing over them. I also already have a 3080

Abhor · Oct 28, 2020

6900 looks good. Waiting for offerings in the $300-$500 range though.

fracas · Oct 28, 2020

Raster performance looks great but I just don't know until I see RT performance and a competitor to DLSS. The price difference is worth it for those two features.

-Tetsuo- · Oct 28, 2020

Can I just hear about RT plz. Also, is there anywhere with just some straight up benchmarks?

Duxxy3 · Oct 28, 2020

Ryan. said:
Doesn't it also perform better than the 3070?

Better rasterization performance, for $80 more. RT performance is unknown. It doesn't have DLSS.

I will be interested to see how RDNA2 is priced further down the product line, particularly the 6700 series.

Tallshortman · Oct 28, 2020

K.Jack said:
RT is such an important part of the stack moving in the present and the future.

It's fair for people to question AMD when they hold an entire conference on new GPUs, proudly show graphs with comparisons to Nvidia, but wholesale gloss over the RT performance.

This shouldn't need to be explained as not being concern trolling.

I never said RT wasn't a valid topic. I'm not sure why you think I said it wasn't something worth discussing. I said the fact he proclaimed it was going to be poor with no evidence was my issue.

Iron Eddie · Oct 28, 2020

K.Jack said:
$999 yeesh, the 3090 is in trouble.

Yes, now the 3090 looks totally out of place with that price.

Bossking · Oct 28, 2020

Between Nvidia and AMD, I'll take any card that either of these companies have stock with to sell me.

If do go AMD, am I going to suffer since I went with an i7-10700k processor?

Slev · Oct 28, 2020

Adrian WIFI said:
I still think most people don't give a fuck about RT.

I actively avoid it. I want as close to 144fps as possible with no dips below 60 ever. Raytracing too intensive for that.

Uzzy · Oct 28, 2020

Beating the 3090 is nice, but who's looking to buy a 3090 and will suddenly be persuaded to save some cash. It's not a real card, it's a status symbol.

The other two cards just seem weaker overall than the 3070 and you're paying more for the privilege (if you can actually get a 3070!)

Not that impressed. But hey I'll still be rocking my 980 Ti for a while still, gotta love being broke.

AmFreak · Oct 28, 2020

H.Cornerstone said:
I guess I don't get why they have the 6800 and 6800xt. Why would you get the 6800 for only saving 80$?

Because the price targets and what they are priced now aren't the same.
Market situation allows those prices.

Frogpuppy · Oct 28, 2020

SolarPowered said:
Apparently AMD will be coming out with their own cross platform version of DLSS just like they did with freesync. PS5 and series X will likely even get it.

AMD’s new Radeon RX 6800 XT promises to go head to head with Nvidia’s RTX 3080

AMD has three new graphics cards

www.theverge.com

If they manage to make that feature universal and relatively easy to implement, it might just blow the NV DLSS away.

Deleted member 4346 · Oct 28, 2020

NVIDIA botched their 3K-series launch from an availability standpoint. The door is wide open for these cards, especially with AMD seemingly leading in power efficiency and at smaller form factors. Running an RTX 2070 right now but I've been extremely disappointed with NVIDIA on the whole since the RTX 2K-series were announced. Pricing, uptake on features in actual games that matter, and now availability, NVIDIA has been a disaster. Even aside from supply issues, RTX 3090 at current pricing is probably done-zo, although we'll see once we have independent benchmarks.

I'm particularly interested in the 6900XT. At $1k that's pricey but it'd be a significant performance upgrade for me, plus HDMI2.1, plus I'd much rather have native 4K rendering than hoping a game supports DLSS...

H.Cornerstone · Oct 28, 2020

AFAIK 16GB RAM is completely useless at 1440 P So I don't know why for the 6800 AMD didn't go with 8 or 10gb and make it cheaper.

brain_stew · Oct 28, 2020

Squirrel09 said:
I think it's priced to move you more towards a 6800XT card, which is very well priced vs the 3080.

It certainly does that. As a consumer with money literally waiting to be spent on the best sub £500 graphics on offer I'd far rather they released a product that was competitive instead. There's much bigger volume in the $500 and below price bracket but they've left it completely uncontested.

Milennia · Oct 28, 2020

So my situation is clear.
3080 vs 6900xt, whichever I can cart and buy first.

Nekrono · Oct 28, 2020

I think it's great to see AMD coming back and now getting in the ring with nvidia even though personally I think nvidia still has the upper hand with it's software suite, DLSS and RTX.

The 6900XT beating the 3090 for $500 less sure is a huge surprise, the other cards not so sure, they have good performance but I feel the 3080 beats the 6800XT but costs $50 more and the 6800 is weird... yes double the VRAM but $80 more, performance wise seems on par as well? Didn't get a chance to look at the benchmarks closely, however I think people will just gravitate to the 3070 though.

Sleepyhead86 · Oct 28, 2020

RIP me and my 3090.

Really need to see real world performance comparisons between the 3090 and the 6900xt now.

GrrImAFridge · Oct 28, 2020

DjDeathCool said:
So, from my understanding AMD is beating Nvidia in price:performance quite handedly with rasterization... I think it's going to be really really interesting to see how much of that ground Nvidia makes back up again with RT performance benchmarks. Especially since ray tracing is going to be a much bigger thing next generation.

Yeah, a lot of people seem to be overlooking the fact AMD made exactly zero mention of ray tracing performance, which doesn't bode well and suggests the rumours of AMD being a step behind are accurate. The 6900XT having the edge in rasterisation performance versus the 3090 for two-thirds the cost is great and all, but it's going to be a moot point if enabling ray tracing sees it lose to the 3080. It's not 2018 any more; we're on the cusp of ray tracing support taking off in a very big way.

(That being said, the 3090 is still obscenely priced. Time to take the 3080 Ti out of your back pocket, Nvidia.)

Tallshortman · Oct 28, 2020

brain_stew said:
Its completely genuine. I've been following the architectures of those GPUs closely for ages, watched Microsoft's full Hot Chips presentation on RDNA2 and I've been repeating for a while that there is a growing base of evidence that RT performance of RDNA2 is quite far behind Ampere.

The lack of evidence is evidence, this is their first card with hardware RT and it barely got a mention, you don't think there's a reason for that? We have huge swathes of evidence that RDNA2 RT performance doesn't match Ampere (Microsoft's architecture breakdown, Minecraft RT performance on Series X and the performance leaks for RDNA2 that were spot on all tell the same story) and this was AMD's chance to put that to bed once and for all.

Their silence told us all we need to know.

Trying to extrapolate the Minecraft RT performance on custom hardware is a fool's game until we get actual benchmarks on these cards. I expect the RT performance to be less than Ampere but saying it's miles behind is certainly a leap with, once again, no actual benchmarks on an apples to apples basis.

Fall Damage · Oct 28, 2020

Duxxy3 said:
Oh the 3090 is a total ripoff. But that's nothing new. It was a ripoff the day that it was announced and it's still a ripoff today. It's even more of a ripoff than the 2080 ti was.

And we know there is a segment of consumers who don't mind paying top dollar for the best performance regardless of diminishing returns. The question on my mind is how many of those will consider the 6900 XT close enough to the mark given the performance? Will DLSS/superior RT be enough to get them to put an additional $500 down? My guess is no, not for the majority of this group.

jwhit28 · Oct 28, 2020

Milennia said:
So my situation is clear.
3080 vs 6900xt, whichever I can cart and buy first.

Same. All comes down to availability.

Conkerkid11 · Oct 28, 2020

Milennia said:
So my situation is clear.
3080 vs 6900xt, whichever I can cart and buy first.

Yuuup. Really curious to see how AMD deals with the demand for these cards vs Nvidia.

Sargerus · Oct 28, 2020

999... redemption arc starting for AMD?

eddy · Oct 28, 2020

Adrian WIFI said:
I still think most people don't give a fuck about RT.

Even if you give a fuck, the reality is that for better or worse, the base RT experience is going to be dictated by the consoles, and obviously these cards will outperform the consoles there.

Yes, there are easy tunables to get more IQ, but that only gets you so far.

Simuly · Oct 28, 2020

brain_stew said:
It certainly does that. As a consumer with money literally waiting to be spent on the best sub £500 graphics on offer I'd far rather they released a product that was competitive instead. There's much bigger volume in the $500 and below price bracket but they've left it completely uncontested.

They went with low to mid range first last time and everyone complained. Now they target high end and people are still complaining.

Also, I saw your post earlier, why do people keep repeating 6800 is a bad deal vs 3070 because it's $80 more expensive, when the slide they showed had it 7-10% faster than the 2080 Ti, which the 3070 is locked with? That's almost a performance tier up, with double the VRAM to boot. Looks a good deal to me if performance holds up to what is claimed.

SolarPowered · Oct 28, 2020

BlastProcessing said:
And double the Ram. It has different tradeoffs. Consumer choice is good.

Looking at the benchmarks it looks like the 6800 was meant to compete with a 3070ti or 20GB 3070. It's clearly faster than a 2080ti while the 3070 only trades blows with it and has double the RAM of a 3070. If it gets a decent DLSS alternative at that price it's a great card imo.

Dreams-Visions · Oct 28, 2020

1-D_FE said:
I think it requires 5XX series mobo too. So it's not like you just have to update your CPU, if you're running an X470 board, you'd need to ditch that too.

I happen to have an X570 board and intend to get a 5900X next month ASAP. Only thing I don't have is a FreeSync compatible monitor, but I've been looking at one of those bigass Odyssey monitors which supports Gsync and FreeSync. So for me, I'm a prime candidate for this card. Will I sell my current 3080 and future 3090 and go all-in here? Possibly, but not without seeing RT and their DLSS solution. I've seen the voodoo magic DLSS does and it's coming to too many big games to ignore it.

That said, I imagine 3090 prices are going to have to fall prior to 6900 launch, and I think the top end 3090 SKUs (the $1800 models) and the worst value in the history of gaming.

MotherFan · Oct 28, 2020

Simuly said:
6800 seems about 5-10% faster than the 2080 Ti/3070, I think $80 more for that is a good deal if RT is around Turing levels as rumoured.

I think we have to see about rt performance. I think we would have heard about ut today if AMD was confident in it. Turing level would not be bad though.

Here is the issue tho: 3070 looses 10% on raster. But it had dlss, and better rt. I think AMD should have gone no higher than 525 for the 6800. Its a good card, I just think an extra 70 bucks is not worth the 10% gain of it does not have the features. An extra 25 bucks only though and its a good conversation about which to pick up.

Ra · Oct 28, 2020

Tallshortman said:
I never said RT wasn't a valid topic. I'm not sure why you think I said it wasn't something worth discussing. I said the fact he proclaimed it was going to be poor with no evidence was my issue.

You have no valid issue. I've explained this. Drawing logical conclusions is fair game on a discussion board.

Walken said:
Yes, now the 3090 looks totally out of place with that price.

The 3090 is now completely out of pocket. Nvidia can't even drop the price this soon as they are actively fulfilling orders.

BUT, the RT performance comparison between the 6900 XT and RTX 3090 could tell an entirely different story. What if the 3090 just bulldozes the 6900 by some ridiculous percentage?

bruhaha · Oct 28, 2020

They should've dropped the VRAM down to 12GB for the 6800 and gotten the price down to $479 or $499. Having a SKU just $70 lower than 6800XT makes no sense.

Deleted member 4346 · Oct 28, 2020

JaseC said:
Yeah, a lot of people seem to be overlooking the fact AMD made exactly zero mention of ray tracing performance, which doesn't bode well and suggests the rumours of AMD being a step behind are accurate. The 6900XT having the edge in rasterisation performance versus the 3090 for two-thirds the cost is great and all, but it's going to be a moot point if enabling ray tracing sees it lose to the 3080. It's not 2018 any more; we're on the cusp of ray tracing support taking off in a very big way.

Ray-tracing uptake has still been extremely slow to this point. I'd rather have better raster performance, better efficiency, and better pricing over faster ray-tracing myself.

brain_stew · Oct 28, 2020

Bluelote said:
yeah, I would start to feel uncomfortable paying $500 or more for a 8GB card at this point tbh, with AMD setting the standard to 16GB,
8GB has been mainstream for a very long time.

3070 is not an easy choice right now that's for sure.

At the $500 price point it is the only choice. Its baffling that AMD decided to skip over this entire market segment.

padlock · Oct 28, 2020

m_shortpants said:
I have a 3080 but have been disappointed with RT in almost every game

Have you tried Control? It's got an amazing implementation of RT that transforms the visuals, and with DLSS, it's completely playable with everything on max with a 3080.

tusharngf · Oct 28, 2020

I feel like next gen consoles are already at disadvantage. There are GPU's touching 30-40 TF and this is just the start of the gen. Last time there were 3 TF cards in the market and now the gap is much higher.

Minarik · Oct 28, 2020

6900XT is the only really compelling thing they showed. If the performance of the 6800XT and 3080 are even close, why would you give up Nvidia's far superior software stack? And why buy a card based on the promise of a DLSS competitor sometime in the future?

6900XT at $999 is really interesting though, because it's not much more than some AIB 3080s and totally kills the 3090 at ~$1500.

dex3108 · Oct 28, 2020

For me it's clear, RTX3070 it is.

Kami · Oct 28, 2020

m_shortpants said:
I have a 3080 but have been disappointed with RT in almost every game

Try Metro Exodus.

MotherFan · Oct 28, 2020

jukeboxhero2396 said:
$80 for the twice the ram

Why do you need twice the ram on a 1440p card?

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