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Amazon's LOTR Second Age TV show: Do you want high fantasy or a more grounded political drama?

Deleted member 16516

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With casting in full flow and Galadriel confirmed as a potential lead, what kind of fantasy do you want from this show?

A more grounded political drama focusing purely on the Race of Men (Numenoreans) and their rampant expansionism and devoid of high fantasy elements or full on high fantasy with all manner of races and mythical gods and monsters in the spirit of The Lord of the Rings trilogy?
 
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UltraMagnus

UltraMagnus

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Are there politics in the LOTR verse? Wasn't that one of GRRM's takes when writing AsoIaF that Tolkien never really dealt with "what was Aragorn's tax policy"?
 
Slayven

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Now i imagining West Wing with elves and Orcs, thanks OP
 
Ogodei

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The LotR universe was always very devoid of that kind of politics, the question of the loyalties of lords and vassals and how the people liked or disliked their rulers. Everything, good or ill, stemmed from the top of the monarchy.

You get small hints otherwise like with Dunlending vassals being integrated under Rohan for a while, or the Kin Strife in Gondor, but mostly it's just "he was a good king and so the land prospered" or "he was a poor king and the land's enemies took advantage."

The Numenoreans certainly need to be front and center but I'd still rather have the storytelling be after the manner of the films rather than trying for a more grounded tone.
 
OP
OP

Deleted member 16516

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I'm thinking something in the style of Rome with two distinct but interwoven narratives. One focusing on the ruling class (Caesar, Octavian, Mark Anthony, Cleopatra etc.) and the other focusing on the plebians (Lucius, Titus and others).

In LOTR terms, Numenoreans and Elves as the ruling class and Middle-earth humans as the plebs.
 
DrForester

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If it's done right, I think it would be both.

If we keep with the guess that it's almost all about Numenor, you're going to get all the political backstabbing from Sauron. But at the same time, it's Middle Earth, and there needs to be a lot of fantasy stuff. You have the Elves, and they could even bring in Olorin if they wanted.
 
sphagnum

sphagnum

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High fantasy. Lord of the Rings shouldn't be "realistic". It should be more mythical in nature.
 
whatsinaname

whatsinaname

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Edmond Dantès said:
With casting in full flow and Galadriel confirmed as a potential lead, what kind of fantasy do you want from this show?

A more grounded political drama focusing purely on the Race of Men (Numenoreans) and their rampant expansionism and devoid of high fantasy elements or full on high fantasy with all manner of races and mythical gods and monsters in the spirit of The Lord of the Rings trilogy?
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Ugh. I don't want a show like Battle Star Galactica or Game of Thrones.

full on high fantasy with all manner of races and mythical gods and monsters in the spirit of The Lord of the Rings trilogy?
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I need them to go deep into that world building.
 
Vulcano's Assistant

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One one hand LoTR to me works best being on the edge of mythology. I would appreciate the classical approach, almost religious tone of people versus godly external forces, versus nature, and good versus evil.
On the other hand, you cannot have much world building in terms of the human side of things without making society a character.

It is a matter of balancing the want for a mythological tone, and the want for characters that feel like real people rather than mythological heroes.
 
jaekeem

jaekeem

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Oct 27, 2017
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isn't the whole point of LOTR a more ancient, manichean world slowly coming to its end?

I don't think rome style drama would fit it at all, but I don't know anything about the second age. strikes me as a bastardization that would try to fit game of thrones appeal in a lotr peg hole.
 
Eegah

Eegah

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I want a realistic down-to-earth political drama that's completely off the wall and swarming with high fantasy. I think they'll nail it!
 

Deleted member 8257

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House of Cards but everyone is dwarves.
 
Doctoglethorpe

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High fantasy.

Watching Witcher made me realize how much I missed all the weird shit that was hardly present in GoT.
 
Regulus Tera

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LotR's entire political worldview is one of divine right as the sole source of legitimate power. It would be difficult to make a show focused on realpolitik drama in this day and age with that as the only focal point.
 
OP
OP

Deleted member 16516

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jaekeem said:
isn't the whole point of LOTR a more ancient, manichean world slowly coming to its end?

I don't think rome style drama would fit it at all, but I don't know anything about the second age. strikes me as a bastardization that would try to fit game of thrones appeal in a lotr peg hole.
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In the Third Age certainly, but the Second Age sees the zenith of the Race of Men, with Elves still very potent and Sauron unleashed from his Master and at the height of his powers too.
 
Senator Toadstool

Senator Toadstool

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I'd like to see the "politics" of the interactions of races and kingdoms in war and peace. I don't want to see the internal politics of a specific kingdom.
 
El Bombastico

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ASoIaF/GoT was already created as a response to LotR. As GRRM said, "I wanted to know what Aragorn's tax policy was."
 
sredgrin

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There's definetly SOME political stuff, mostly stemming from the likes of Denethor (his sons and their status, not wanting to recognize Aragorn, etc).

I think it'll have some of these elements just because doing high fantasy for 12-20 hours straight is a hard ask.
 
TwntyOneTwlv

TwntyOneTwlv

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DrForester said:
If it's done right, I think it would be both.

If we keep with the guess that it's almost all about Numenor, you're going to get all the political backstabbing from Sauron. But at the same time, it's Middle Earth, and there needs to be a lot of fantasy stuff. You have the Elves, and they could even bring in Olorin if they wanted.
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Would people accept a Gandalf that's not played by Sir Ian?
 
Ether_Snake

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I want depth and no rushed plot. I feel The Witch goes too fast (although as I said in the main thread I don't think it could have been done differently without making up a new story), and GoT in the later seasons suffered from the same problem, and Star Wars suffered from that too.

The PJ LotR movies really did a great job introducing the different races and locations, even in the context of limited running time compared to a TV show. The early GoT seasons are a great example of how to approach things pacing-wise, but there's the risk that they'll be afraid it's too "boring" and will rush through to action and what not to hook people.

I think as grounded as PJ's LotR was is good enough, which I think favors better pacing.

Also, in the books you can see that the politics are there, they're just not the focus because of the specific story it's telling. Boromir, Denethor and Theoden are good examples. There's magic, but their behavior and actions would be very political in a context where you'd have a longer running time.
 

Deleted member 2229

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Why would you want a political LOTR show over a high fantasy LOTR show. Why do you think tbe Tolkien estate would even allow that.
 
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