Amazon's AI-powered cameras punish its delivery drivers when they look at side mirrors or when other cars cut them off - Business Insider

[Keasar]

Amazon drivers say they are being punished for some driving habits that are considered safe and others that are beyond their control, Motherboard reported.

Drivers told Motherboard that the AI-powered cameras in Amazon's delivery vans unfairly penalized them for things such as looking at side mirrors, adjusting the radio, and even getting cut off in traffic by someone else.

"It's upsetting, when I didn't do anything," a Los Angeles delivery driver told Motherboard. "Every time I need to make a right-hand turn, it inevitably happens. A car cuts me off to move into my lane, and the camera, in this really dystopian dark, robotic voice, shouts at me."

Amazon said it has seen a reduction in accidents and other safety violations since installing the Netradyne cameras in its delivery vehicles.

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Amazon's AI-powered cameras punish its delivery drivers when they look at side mirrors or when other cars cut them off, report says

Amazon drivers have been punished for looking at side mirrors, adjusting the radio, and being cut off in traffic by other people, Motherboard reports.

www.businessinsider.com

Cameras owned by a megacorporation watching your every move and judging your actions, cutting your pay if you do something "bad".
The ones supplying those cameras are a company called fucking Netradyne!
All legal.

And ya'll are worried about China.

 

[Rangerx]

Why do people use this dogshit company with all we know about them. I've never bought a single thing from them and never will. I can't get my head around it.

 

[Dennis8K]

Bezos should be in prison.

 

[Max|Payne]

What in the goddamn fucking hell is this fucking bullshit?

Jail Bezos already.

 

[Shelbyville Milhouse]

Genuinely thought made a mistake when writing the title and it's supposed to be "when they don't look at side mirrors", not that that would make it much better.

 

[nsilvias]

Why do people use this dogshit company with all we know about them. I've never bought a single thing from them and never will. I can't get my head around it.

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because in alot of cases you can only buy certain things thru amazon as many companies have abandoned creating their own storefronts and know that most people use amazon as a first stop for everything and will get less business selling product thru other online marketplaces. it also helps that you can rent space from amazon to store your product to reduce storage costs and speed up deliveries (because amazon will handle all that for you). if you only buy stuff from major brands you can buy at any big retailer you probably dont care but thats the reality of trying to sell stuff on the internet in 2021.

 

[Saladin]

It's bad but at the same time legal? I wonder who's to blame here :)

 

[Rangerx]

because in alot of cases you can only buy certain things thru amazon as many companies have abandoned creating their own storefronts and know that most people use amazon as a first stop for everything and will get less business selling product thru other online marketplaces. it also helps that you can rent space from amazon to store your product to reduce storage costs and speed up deliveries (because amazon will handle all that for you). if you only buy stuff from major brands you can buy at any big retailer you probably dont care but thats the reality of trying to sell stuff on the internet in 2020.

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Doesn't how they treat their employees outweigh all of that? It's common knowledge at this stage.

 

[Max|Payne]

For adjusting the radio? The fucking radio?! So I get paid less because I wanted to listen to music a bit louder?

JFC...

 

[Tokyo_Funk]

You breathed incorrectly!

- $60 fine for that!

 

[nsilvias]

Doesn't how they treat their employees outweigh all of that? It's common knowledge at this stage.

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i mean yeah amazon treats there employees like shit but good luck convincing millions of people to change their shopping habits especially when amazon has basically killed most other options

 

[Cugel]

Bu-bu-but Jeff went to SPACE

 

[nsilvias]

but yeah this is ridiculous at this point. the goverment needs to really reign amazon and other big tech companies in at this point because its obvious they are pushing things too far but when washington cant even cooperate when we have a majority i doubt anything will be done about this for awhile

 

[Deleted member 10001]

Some people genuinely think that dystopia is somewhere in the realm of imagination.

 

[Foffy]

Why do people use this dogshit company with all we know about them. I've never bought a single thing from them and never will. I can't get my head around it.

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They essentially undercut themselves to the top. They have enough capital to either create the same product or service and sell it in their network, or push something at a loss and let time normalize it as the standard. Their delivery service, perhaps the most famous thing that got them ahead outside of their shopping site, was precisely pushed as a way to undercut the standards of every chain in America that did deliveries. Now people red flag any service that doesn't do same-day delivery.

 

[Dennis8K]

The way Bezos treats workers is legit worse and more dystopian than I have ever read in a Cyberpunk novel.

"In this book about the near-future, the movement of workers is monitored around the clock"

Bezos: "Come on son, that is some weak-ass rookie shit"

 

[Max|Payne]

Do they just fire the drivers who accidentally or "accidentally" cover the cameras?

This is evil beyond belief.

 

[geardo]

because in alot of cases you can only buy certain things thru amazon as many companies have abandoned creating their own storefronts and know that most people use amazon as a first stop for everything and will get less business selling product thru other online marketplaces. it also helps that you can rent space from amazon to store your product to reduce storage costs and speed up deliveries (because amazon will handle all that for you). if you only buy stuff from major brands you can buy at any big retailer you probably dont care but thats the reality of trying to sell stuff on the internet in 2021.

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Anecdotal but I've never ran into a situation where I couldn't buy a product from the actual manufacturer instead of amazon. I just did this with a juicer last night lol.

 

[Sho Nuff]

Hey Jeff, go fuck yourself

 

[Zombegoast]

People will still prop Amazon being this great place to be while Jeff barely makes it to space

 

[FrakEarth]

Driving is mirror signal manoeuvre though. And pretty much constant checks of your mirror. I'm trying to think what would even constitute an inappropriate look at your side mirror...

It sounds like the cameras don't work properly either. If you're slowing to make a turn, someone goes around you and the system flags that as tailgating or something, it's not working properly. It's like every company is just happily throwing AI at everything ("this will make us more efficient" being the rallying cry I suspect), and not taking in to account the models and programming are done by humans, who make mistakes.

 

[TAJ]

This is allegedly about safety, but one of the things that hurts your score the most is not answering phone calls immediately. Fucking lol.
Also, I've driven hundreds of thousands of miles in a cargo van and not using the side mirrors is unbelievably dangerous, much more so than in a car.

 

[Max|Payne]

Hey Jeff, go fuck yourself

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Jeff will certainly get no Bezos from me haha oh god no one will get this

You win five Internet Points® if you get the double pun

 

[sfedai0]

I have had no problem not using Amazon for the last couple years. There is nothing you cant get elsewhere, either from local or other sites.

 

[GrantDaNasty]

Eat the Rich.

"bu…but space/electric cars/token goodwill or charity"

Eat. The. Rich.

Tax them, regulate them, do anything aside from nothing, and going "they earned it"

fuck outta here.

 

[AcademicSaucer]

At this point I only buy from Amazon things I know I won't need for a few months because I know that when they inevitably lost track of the product they will refund me the full amount plus some credit and I will still get the product a week or so after they give me the money back.

 

[Diablos]

Penalized for looking at your side mirrors? What the fuck? That's why they are there!

 

[Rendering...]

This unfortunate practice could be eliminated if all Amazon employees were simply affixed with humane shock collars that gently discourage incorrect behavior. In time, people wouldn't even have to be monitored. Employees who think correctly will behave correctly.

Correct thinking is a skill. Skills are best taught through aversive stimulation, in order to give the subject a compelling incentive to avoid errors.

Amazon should hire me. I'm super ethical and really great at this behavioral stuff. The key to my approach is discarding unprofitable social constructs like empathy.

 

[DiipuSurotu]

Self-driving cars can't come soon enough

 

[phonicjoy]

Self-driving cars can't come soon enough

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Errrr, or just you know, legislate this crap? people having jobs is nice.

 

[Musubi]

Why the hell would it punish you for looking at your mirrors you know... the things you need to merge into lanes safely in front of other cars... or park....or do a lot of things in cars. Fuck Bezos.

 

[Diablos]

Self-driving cars can't come soon enough

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I disagree. I actually enjoy driving. Congested cities suck, yes, so I'm not saying self driving cars are entirely useless but I'm not OK with AI taking over driving everywhere.

anyway with every new story I read about the way Amazon treats their employees, I get closer to just 100% boycotting them. It'll be hard since they basically sell everything but they're such a morally and ethically flawed company.

 

[Kain-Nosgoth]

This shit is heinous and should be made illegal, but i don't understand what's the issue with looking at the side mirrors? You basically have to look at them to drive.... they're made for a reason

 

[EternalDarko]

As bad as it is that Amazon has bought these cameras and put them into their vans, there's actually a company called Netradyne who builds and sells these cameras for any fleet.

Why they feel the need to exist is beyond me.

 

[Lactose_Intolerant]

Driving is mirror signal manoeuvre though. And pretty much constant checks of your mirror. I'm trying to think what would even constitute an inappropriate look at your side mirror...

It sounds like the cameras don't work properly either. If you're slowing to make a turn, someone goes around you and the system flags that as tailgating or something, it's not working properly. It's like every company is just happily throwing AI at everything ("this will make us more efficient" being the rallying cry I suspect), and not taking in to account the models and programming are done by humans, who make mistakes.

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They need to take their foot off the gas when they get cut off and the system wouldn't flag them.

Most of these other things aren't flagged by doing them. They get flagged when something else sets them off, say slamming on the brakes. If that sets off the camera, it reviews what you were doing before that. Say like, looking in your mirror for too long or messing with the radio.

All this shit is annoying, but they need to adjust how they drive. Or complain to the media

 

[PeakPointMatrix]

Can't wait for the new firmware update that penalizes blinking.

 

[Hrodulf]

Why do people use this dogshit company with all we know about them. I've never bought a single thing from them and never will. I can't get my head around it.

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I mean, some people treat this place as some sort of progressive bastion (it isn't, but that's how some people treat it), and many here openly admit to using Amazon for essentially everything with no qualms about it.

 

[Glasgow Mega-Snake]

Penalized for looking at your side mirrors? What the fuck? That's why they are there!

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Why the hell would it punish you for looking at your mirrors you know... the things you need to merge into lanes safely in front of other cars... or park....or do a lot of things in cars. Fuck Bezos.

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Its probably not by design, I'd guess the AI camera is programmed to alert the drivers when they don't have their eyes on the road... and nobody thought that actually you have to look into the side mirrors or out of the windows constantly to drive safely

Trying to increase your delivery drivers' road safety would be a sensible goal, but of course Amazon does it by keeping them under constant surveillance. And tying that to people's pay just sucks

 

[EggmaniMN]

Other delivery companies are moving toward the same thing. Where I work (it's got the arrow in the logo) is putting in cameras "for our safety" but it also gives us a "safety score" and the camera yells DISTRACTION if you look away for 3 seconds. At 5 seconds an alarm goes off. It detects acceleration and braking as well and records whenever there's a big disturbance, which can just be turning down a dirt road.

We're so down on people that they're trying anything they can to monitor and squeeze employees into just gogogogo no looking but like, I have to look for house numbers off mailboxes on the side of the road, I'll get dinged for that constantly. Afaik it doesn't affect my pay and I can't be fired if the score is low but I assume it'll result in more direct manager meetings.

 

[FliX]

 

[RPGam3r]

As bad as it is that Amazon has bought these cameras and put them into their vans, there's actually a company called Netradyne who builds and sells these cameras for any fleet.

Why they feel the need to exist is beyond me.

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If the cameras help reduce accidents then it's a good thing. How the companies use them to punish workers is a different story though.

 

[Sidewinder]

When low paid workers get scrutinized like that on their every move, I wonder how the ones at the top of the ladder are being treated while earning 100 times more, they must have nanomachines in their blood, anal probes and brain implants….no, they don't?? I'm shocked.

 

[sandyph]

The company added that it has seen the following changes since installing the cameras in more than half of its US fleet: accidents decreased 48%, stop-sign and signal violations decreased 77%, following distance decreased 50%, driving without a seat belt decreased 60%, and distracted driving decreased 75%.

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I'm torn, in one hand this makes people drives more carefully , on the other hands this is some future dystopian shits

 

[phonicjoy]

I mean, some people treat this place as some sort of progressive bastion (it isn't, but that's how some people treat it), and many here openly admit to using Amazon for essentially everything with no qualms about it.

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I cant blame working class people for buying stuff they need or want in the most economical way they can. The system allows this, that needs to change.

 

[BlinkBlank]

People will still prop Amazon being this great place to be while Jeff barely makes it to space

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Sad really how un-spaceman like he was. Definitely C+ effort. They gloat about going to space. Get back to me when you get to Mars and find out how boring it is. But what do you expect out of self absorbed billionaires?

 

[Akainu]

Why do people use this dogshit company with all we know about them. I've never bought a single thing from them and never will. I can't get my head around it.

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People got to get their dildos in a day.

 

[steejee]

But, but their commercials tell me they're so nice! Who am I to believe, the people who make those ads show Amazon is a workers utopia or the people who actually work there?!?

 

[David Incorporated Esq.]

They need to take their foot off the gas when they get cut off and the system wouldn't flag them.

Most of these other things aren't flagged by doing them. They get flagged when something else sets them off, say slamming on the brakes. If that sets off the camera, it reviews what you were doing before that. Say like, looking in your mirror for too long or messing with the radio.

All this shit is annoying, but they need to adjust how they drive. Or complain to the media

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I'd really be curious to see how this system is used and how it responds to issues. A lot of people suck hard at driving, but think they're excellent at it.

Yes the constant observation is invasive, but if it's measurably reducing accidents and improving safe driving then it may be worth it.

 

[MikeHattsu]

The way Bezos treats workers is legit worse and more dystopian than I have ever read in a Cyberpunk novel.

"In this book about the near-future, the movement of workers is monitored around the clock"

Bezos: "Come on son, that is some weak-ass rookie shit"

Click to shrink...

 

[NullPointerException]

It's bad but at the same time legal? I wonder who's to blame here :)

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It's almost like US politicians don't serve US citizens.