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Stooge

Member
Oct 29, 2017
11,127
So...why are you talking about 9/11 victims? Are they All Lives Matter people too? These are All Lives Matter folks being outraged at All Buildings Matter.

Because people died in the fucking buildings in question. There are a million other ways to point out that All Lives Matter is stupid. But the people who say All Lives Matter don't care if it's stupid, they are racists and they mostly are aware that they say it because they are racist. Mocking the anniversary of domestic terrorism isn't going to convert the Twitter shit-heals in the OP to the cause.
 

platocplx

2020 Member Elect
Member
Oct 30, 2017
36,072
No one is saying you can't point out hypocrisy or question the United States response to 9/11. I myself have literally said that 9/11 was used to start heinous wars in this thread. No one is saying that you shouldn't point out people shrouding themselves in 9/11 to excuse shitty behavior is shitty. If people want to have a conversation about the response to 9/11 or a high-level conversation about hypocrisy of people who hold 9/11 sacred but don't care about police brutality that's also totally fine. I am certainly not a defender of the US response to 9/11, but also the victims of 9/11 and their families are not the Bush administration.

But #allbuildingsmatter is some low-grade edge lord trollface garbage on the anniversary of a day that a lot of people have a hard time with. No one here actually thinks that this is going to suddenly convert All Lives Matter people to the cause of BLM. It's trending because the right has weaponized 9/11 since it happened and people thought it was a great way to take the piss out of them. Which, it is. It just ignores the fact that there are people for whom this day sucks a lot.
heres the thing those folks dont even care about 9/11 and defending them or even thinking that this has any impact on anyone other than total racist hypocrites its crazy.

We literally had assholes booing when for a moment of silence for equality. this is not the hill to die on for this.

and when black people die tragically guess what those assholes do. "All lives matter" and degrade the lives lost of people. they are awful people.
 
Oct 31, 2017
6,747
Sorry dude, but go fuck yourself. You are accusing me of concern trolling and kowtowing to racists repeatedly because I don't like some shitty edge-lord meme that is designed to make people feel good because they get to use my friends grief to laugh at Ben Fucking Shapiro.

The way you are using your friend's grief is actually gross


A right to be hostile doesn't mean you should be in every context, least of all his one. You should demonstrate some sensitivity here.

In context; you know they were not accused of concern trolling for being upset on 9-11, yet that's how you framed it

I just don't have patience for the disingenuous shit anymore
 

julian

Member
Oct 27, 2017
16,734
It's being done to people who do All Lives Matter, so that's the irony. Well really it's not even being done to them, these All Lives Matter folks see a trending hashtag and get pissy about it.
I feel like you're contradicting yourself a little bit. It's a trending hashtag. You can't control who sees it.
 

Stooge

Member
Oct 29, 2017
11,127
heres the thing those folks dont even care about 9/11 and defending them or even thinking that this has any impact on anyone other than total racist hypocrites its crazy.

We literally had assholes booing when for a moment of silence for equality. this is not the hill to die on for this.

What does a bunch of racists at an NFL game got to do with 9/11?

Like, yes congrats a bunch of right-wing Twitter jerks are upset because 9/11 got weaponized. But there are a lot of other people who also will see the hashtag trending that will be hurt by it that *aren't* All Lives Matter shit-heads.
 
Oct 31, 2017
6,747
Because people died in the fucking buildings in question. There are a million other ways to point out that All Lives Matter is stupid. But the people who say All Lives Matter don't care if it's stupid, they are racists and they mostly are aware that they say it because they are racist. Mocking the anniversary of domestic terrorism isn't going to convert the Twitter shit-heals in the OP to the cause.

Considering America treats one as a "Never Forget" situation while at yelling ongoing victims of brutal violence to get over it- we're forced to point out the hypocrisy.

No one is trying to convert racist- but we unfortunately have to constantly and nicely beg for our right to live. Be upset about that.
 

Deleted member 12224

user requested account closure
Banned
Oct 27, 2017
6,113
heres the thing those folks dont even care about 9/11 and defending them or even thinking that this has any impact on anyone other than total racist hypocrites its crazy.

We literally had assholes booing when for a moment of silence for equality. this is not the hill to die on for this.
This hashtag as the means to mock those assholes is not the hill to die on.
The way you are using your friend's grief is actually gross




In context; you know they were not accused of concern trolling for being upset on 9-11, yet that's how you framed it

I just don't have patience for the disingenuous shit anymore
You're upset I didn't take the time to fully spell out your garbage accusations? Sure. Here's a cliff notes:

Someone is upset today for personal reasons related to mourning. They're upset by this hashtag.

You called their upset feelings at the hashtag concern trolling, meaning feigning being upset to troll the matter, which is BLM.

You not only accused their concern of being fake, you've directly accused them of trolling the BLM cause.

Do you feel better?
 

Stooge

Member
Oct 29, 2017
11,127
Considering America treats one as a "Never Forget" situation while at yelling ongoing victims of brutal violence to get over it- we're forced to point out the hypocrisy.

No one is trying to convert racist- but we unfortunately have to constantly and nicely beg for our right to live. Be upset about that.

Can I also be upset that my friends lost family in a terrorist attack that happened on this day, or do I in this scenario only have enough empathy for one thing?
 

ZeoVGM

Member
Oct 25, 2017
76,008
Providence, RI
A quick reminder that at the NFL opener last night, Americans literally booed the idea of unity in response to black people being murdered by police.
 

NoName999

One Winged Slayer
Banned
Oct 29, 2017
5,906
User Banned (2 Weeks): Hostility, multiple prior bans for hostility, insensitive commentary; additionally, permanent threadban
What does a bunch of racists at an NFL game got to do with 9/11?

Like, yes congrats a bunch of right-wing Twitter jerks are upset because 9/11 got weaponized. But there are a lot of other people who also will see the hashtag trending that will be hurt by it that *aren't* All Lives Matter shit-heads.

Really living up to your username there, guy
 

cakely

Member
Oct 27, 2017
13,149
Chicago
User banned (2 weeks): Dismissive and insensitive rhetoric over a series of posts. Long history of infractions for antagonistic behaviour.
There are people in this thread making a performance of missing the point.
 

rjinaz

Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
28,361
Phoenix
I. KNOW. PEOPLE. WHO. LOST. FAMILY. IN. THE. WORLD. TRADE. CENTER.

This fucking forum is showing its fucking ass right now.
I think where the disconnect is is that you feel the people making this point are somehow mocking or dismissing the deaths of 9 11 when in reality it's the opposite. They are pointing out the hypocrisy because the Black likes lost should matter just as much as those lives. That's not dismissing anything.thats saying those lives fucking matter.
 
Oct 26, 2017
8,686
I get what people are trying to do with this but it really feels like adding fuel to the fire instead.

Did anyone really think a racist would be convinced to rethink their racism by what they'd no doubt perceive as an attempt to undermine their patriotism?
 

ZeoVGM

Member
Oct 25, 2017
76,008
Providence, RI
I. KNOW. PEOPLE. WHO. LOST. FAMILY. IN. THE. WORLD. TRADE. CENTER.

This fucking forum is showing its fucking ass right now.

We know.

No one is downplaying it. But there is context behind the hastag. The intent is not to mock 9/11 victims. I would hope that someone who knows a person who died in 9/11 can see that hashtag, think about it for a moment, and understand what it means.

Yes, it might make people feel uncomfortable at times.
 

Jebusman

Member
Oct 27, 2017
4,076
Halifax, NS
I get what people are trying to do with this but it really feels like adding fuel to the fire instead.

Did anyone really think a racist would be convinced to rethink their racism by what they'd no doubt perceive as an attempt to undermine their patriotism?

Literally no one thinks this. It's simply to rile them up/help bring the chuds out of the woodworks to make it easier to spot them.
 

uzipukki

Attempted to circumvent ban with alt account
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
5,722
I. KNOW. PEOPLE. WHO. LOST. FAMILY. IN. THE. WORLD. TRADE. CENTER.

This fucking forum is showing its fucking ass right now.
You've made that abundantly clear. And I still fail to see how this hashtag specifically attacks the victims (or the people who lost a loved one) who lost their life in the attacks.
 

Messofanego

Member
Oct 25, 2017
26,075
UK
Because people died in the fucking buildings in question. There are a million other ways to point out that All Lives Matter is stupid. But the people who say All Lives Matter don't care if it's stupid, they are racists and they mostly are aware that they say it because they are racist. Mocking the anniversary of domestic terrorism isn't going to convert the Twitter shit-heals in the OP to the cause.
And many more died in wars and countries affected by Americans who used 9/11 as a weapon, but that's not what's at play here. The one thing white racists hate more than anything is being called racists, so I am not with you on racists being self-aware and proud of being racists. I don't care for tone policing how to say All Lives Matter people are shitheads and this is not about converting these idiots to the cause. No one said it was.
 

Deleted member 12224

user requested account closure
Banned
Oct 27, 2017
6,113
You've made that abundantly clear. And I still fail to see how this hashtag specifically attacks the victims (or the people who lost a loved one) who lost their life in the attacks.
I don't think the point argued is it's specifically attacking anyone. It's being noted they're collateral. It's a more honest rebuttal to say "I don't care about who gets indirectly offended, the message is important".
 

collige

Member
Oct 31, 2017
12,772
This whole affair reminds me of when people got super upset at Colbert for using Asian stereotypes to point out how racist the Redskins are
 

Budi

Member
Oct 25, 2017
13,881
Finland
Some of you should chill the fuck down and really re-think the shit you're talking to Stooge. Disgusting. You aren't arguing with those Twitter/alt-right morons here. Have some heart.
 

Viriditas

Member
Oct 25, 2017
809
United States
It's been 19 years, I know a lot of people died, and I know a lot of people are still suffering from wounds that will never heal... but people are dying on the street right now. People are fighting on the street right now. ANY weapon that gets attention back on the current fight is fair game.

While I offer my condolences to anyone who suffered loss at 9/11, the number of black lives who've been stolen (directly through police violence, and indirectly for being locked up forever over minor offenses) greatly surpasses what happened then and what is STILL happening today.

I think where the disconnect is is that you feel the people making this point are somehow mocking or dismissing the deaths of 9 11 when in reality it's the opposite. They are pointing out the hypocrisy because the Black likes lost should matter just as much as those lives. That's not dismissing anything.thats saying those lives fucking matter.

I think y'all got some good points here.
 

Watchtower

Member
Oct 27, 2017
11,628
I don't like this particular hashtag as so many people died on 9/11 (and are still dying from 9/11 - see the First Responders dealing with cancer and health complications). It's a bad look even when it's fun to dunk on alt-right shitheads for not seeing that this is exactly why it's fucked up to say All Lives Matter.

I think the same point can be made without referencing a tragedy where thousands died and suffered (like when a Trump boat parade sees a bunch of boats sink due to the wakes they make? All Boats Matter).

I actually disagree with this. I honestly think this point could only really be made as strongly as it is with something like 9/11.

What is this meme's point? It's to show the hypocrisy of the right in which internal atrocities they care about. And the fact of the matter is the right doesn't give a shit about how many black people get shot and killed by cops. No number of incidents or names you can throw at them will get them to accept that this is a tragedy. If you want to show the hypocrisy, you have to rattle the cage with something they truly care about, something they are willing to accept as a tragedy.

No one gives a shit about some boat parade. In fact it's only really farcical to do so, since you're only really snarking at the schadenfreude. You need something these sorts of people instinctively dogmatically care about, and the only thing that really tracks are national tragedies: Pearl Harbor, the assassination of JFK, 9/11, etc. And let's face facts: no event is as sacred to the modern American as 9/11.
 

Viriditas

Member
Oct 25, 2017
809
United States
I actually disagree with this. I honestly think this point could only really be made as strongly as it is with something like 9/11.

What is this meme's point? It's to show the hypocrisy of the right in which internal atrocities they care about. And the fact of the matter is the right doesn't give a shit about how many black people get shot and killed by cops. No number of incidents or names you can throw at them will get them to accept that this is a tragedy. If you want to show the hypocrisy, you have to rattle the cage with something they truly care about, something they are willing to accept as a tragedy.

No one gives a shit about some boat parade. In fact it's only really farcical to do so, since you're only really snarking at the schadenfreude. You need something these sorts of people instinctively dogmatically care about, and the only thing that really tracks are national tragedies: Pearl Harbor, the assassination of JFK, 9/11, etc. And let's face facts: no event is as sacred to the modern American as 9/11.

giphy.gif


Well said
 

Messofanego

Member
Oct 25, 2017
26,075
UK
Someone basically said he never got laid or something or his wife doesn't bang him. And he responded saying something like "then how would you explain my two kids, and I know they are my kids cause I took a paternity test on both"
EgOf9g9XkAEXOYu

🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣
 

Deleted member 4346

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
8,976


As far as the arguments about how this is disrespectful to the victims that died 19 years ago, I disagree. That's certainly not the intent. The intent is to cut through the constant "shut up, sit down, wait your turn quietly" that black Americans have had to deal with now for centuries by framing the hypocrisy by white America, who are fine with mourning the victims of other atrocities, but who don't spare us a second thought. If that ruffles feathers so be it.

There is a growing movement on the left to abolish the pointless civility which serves to protect the status quo and normalize everyday atrocities. Stuff like #AllBuildingsMatter is right in line with that and is good, actually.
 

Version 3.0

Member
Oct 27, 2017
11,143
Not sure how I feel about this. I get that it's fighting fire with fire. I get that it's a clever way to make a point. I get that if feels good to piss off people who deserve it.

But, you're not convincing anyone. They're not "almost getting the point" like the thread title says. They either never will, or they already did and don't care.

And it's just kind of gross. Just look at the back and forth in this thread. This may do more harm than good.
 

SolidSnakeBoy

Member
May 21, 2018
7,341
To me it's clear the intent is to raise awareness of a much larger and systemic ongoing tragedy in opposition to those that would deny it. Not by demeaning or minimizing 9/11 but by effectively equating it with the plight of african americans and other minorities in the current US. It is by harvesting the outrage that we can show the hypocrisy of the ALM racists.This is about affirming equality of loss and highlighting the callousness of those that would deny it.

Some might feel insulted by this and some might feel uncomfortable, but to that I say good. Let people use their brains to remember the undeniable suffering many felt, and with that feeling find the sympathy their fellow person needs from them to help their cause.
 

Jebusman

Member
Oct 27, 2017
4,076
Halifax, NS
Ok, then that's different. It still feels more provocative than helpful to me, but I haven't lived in the U.S. for years so maybe there's a part of the dynamic I'm missing.

I mean really this is more cathartic than anything for those who are constantly being told to sit down and shut up by the AllLivesMatter crowd, finally getting a way to spit back in their faces in the exact same way they get spat on.

The fact that the US puts so much emphasis on a single (very tragic!) event, while simultaneously ignoring the literal thousands more that die every year by what are completely preventable reasons, even going so far as to actively downplay and excuse the atrocities they themselves commit, I can't blame some people for finally feeling like they found a way to actually antagonize these rightwing/altright chuds, like, really find something that genuinely hits them.
 

Messofanego

Member
Oct 25, 2017
26,075
UK


As far as the arguments about how this is disrespectful to the victims that died 19 years ago, I disagree. That's certainly not the intent. The intent is to cut through the constant "shut up, sit down, wait your turn quietly" that black Americans have had to deal with now for centuries by framing the hypocrisy by white America, who are fine with mourning the victims of other atrocities, but who don't spare us a second thought. If that ruffles feathers so be it.

There is a growing movement on the left to abolish the pointless civility which serves to protect the status quo and normalize everyday atrocities. Stuff like #AllBuildingsMatter is right in line with that and is good, actually.

Exactly. Respectability politics doesn't work. Conservatives care more about who's dominating the conversation. If liberals and moderates keep spending all their time defending and explaining, it's wasting more energy than the opponents are. Fight fire with fire, use emotions, go for simplicity.
 

Nepenthe

When the music hits, you feel no pain.
Administrator
Oct 25, 2017
20,644
But, you're not convincing anyone.
If the point of any political action or satire is to convince people of an argument, or else it's bad satire, then liberals and leftists will always stay losing no matter what the fuck we do.

Because American conservatives consciously do not want to be convinced of anything. They are not lost souls. They're not confused. They want to kill as many of us as they can and subjugate the rest in a vain effort to achieve a Christian theocratic white ethnostate where they think they'll be happy. That's literally all they want.

This shit isn't to reform them. It's to mock them. Which they fucking deserve.
 
Oct 26, 2017
8,686


As far as the arguments about how this is disrespectful to the victims that died 19 years ago, I disagree. That's certainly not the intent. The intent is to cut through the constant "shut up, sit down, wait your turn quietly" that black Americans have had to deal with now for centuries by framing the hypocrisy by white America, who are fine with mourning the victims of other atrocities, but who don't spare us a second thought. If that ruffles feathers so be it.

There is a growing movement on the left to abolish the pointless civility which serves to protect the status quo and normalize everyday atrocities. Stuff like #AllBuildingsMatter is right in line with that and is good, actually.

I mean really this is more cathartic than anything for those who are constantly being told to sit down and shut up by the AllLivesMatter crowd, finally getting a way to spit back in their faces in the exact same way they get spat on.

The fact that the US puts so much emphasis on a single (very tragic!) event, while simultaneously ignoring the literal thousands more that die every year by what are completely preventable reasons, even going so far as to actively downplay and excuse the atrocities they themselves commit, I can't blame some people for finally feeling like they found a way to actually antagonize these rightwing/altright chuds, like, really find something that genuinely hits them.

Thank you both, the bolded parts I can especially relate to and make it easier for me to understand the greater point.

As a white man I will probably never have the same level of awareness, nor the same degree of righteous anger, so these explanations are incredibly helpful.