-
Ever wanted an RSS feed of all your favorite gaming news sites? Go check out our new Gaming Headlines feed! Read more about it here.
All Elite Wrestling |OT10| Punk goes All Out with a heel turn
- Thread starter Naijaboy
- Start date
- Status
As long as Dunn is there and they're doing the Saudi shows, I'm not going to be tuning in. Gonna be a few years before I consider giving them my attention, but I'm sure others have different thresholds and that WWE's ratings are gonna spike for the next little while.
Pretty much my lines in the sand too.
For my wife, they'll need to do a second Evolution, which I doubt is going to happen given Trip's previous comments on that concept.
When wrestling is crazy, wrestling is awesome. Let's go.
Agreed on all notes.
I'm specially stocked about watching Bryan again. This week's episode looks phenomenal on paper, and with the news that has happened, they'll be all probably fired up about the chances of competition ramping up.
Yeah I'll never watch or support WWE while they maintain their Saudi contracts. And any changes in creative under HHH don't grab me for the same reasons NXT 1.0 never grabbed me either. However WWE becoming a better place to work can only improve the industry as a whole.
It's kind of wild to have been at the first major wrestling show in the post Vince world on Saturday, and to be going to Dynamite on Wednesday. I'll be following news out of RAW tonight for the first time in a while (though not tuning in).
NXT prior to AEW was regularly miss-able weekly TV. It wasn't destination television. Far from it. Takeovers were must watch, no arguments to be had there really, but the weekly show wasn't remotely close in quality to Dynamite.
Don't get me wrong, things are highly unlikely to get worse with Trips in charge of creative. There's going to be real improvements for the first time in a very very long time. I'm just far from convinced it'll translate into 'oh man, I've got to watch this week in week out', although I do foresee a potential future now where I'm tuning into WWE for big shows.
But are they going to do a complete 180 on everything wrong with the company? I'll believe it when I see it.
Yeah, we really don't know what will happen, but now there's at least a chance. They also have their second biggest event of the year in SummerSlam, and it'll be the first with HHH in creative and with no Vince. I'll keep an eye. Won't be watching Raw or Smackdown, but I'll def keep an eye on what's to come. Specially on what it could mean for AEW going forwards and being forced to improve (something something women's wrestling)
Light the fuse.
Wow.... yeah ill wait a bit for WWE to actually improve, regardless I'm on board to start watching again, eventually.
Im all for wwe improving as in response aew will step it up also. Competition is good for all.
Hi y'all, I had a bad mental health day yesterday, so I missed all the "fun" discourse (Thank God). I'm still not feeling great, so I'll mostly be MIA today as well. I just wanted to drop my two cents on the WWE news.
I will echo a lot of you. I don't plan on watching any WWE programming until a lot more changes with the promotion. Mostly the Saudi deals, as taking money from them while claiming to care about women & LGBTQ talent is just hypocritical. They won't change either as Nick Khan wants more of them.
I watched WWE from 2001 to 2018, hoping it would eventually get good. Some of that time wasn't constant, but I knew what was happening during those times. Obviously they didn't get good, so I finally (For my sanity) decided to walk away.
AEW gives me everything I need out of a wrestling promotion
- Longer matches & feuds
- Not treating the audience like children
- Not hiding away from blood or hardcore type matches
- Willing to showcase NEW talent and actually build up your company for years by creating stars that will become main eventers in a couple of years.
AEW isn't perfect, but I'd gladly take its faults over WWE any day of the week. I hope WWE changes for the good, but I'm done with them on many levels. Competition is good for the industry.
Sorry for my long ass post. Back to feeling this never-ending dread after having a pretty good Saturday (Moral of the story: Don't have good days anymore)
I'll be back for my normal Dynamite review (Hopefully) on Wednesday. Stay safe everyone.
I will echo a lot of you. I don't plan on watching any WWE programming until a lot more changes with the promotion. Mostly the Saudi deals, as taking money from them while claiming to care about women & LGBTQ talent is just hypocritical. They won't change either as Nick Khan wants more of them.
I watched WWE from 2001 to 2018, hoping it would eventually get good. Some of that time wasn't constant, but I knew what was happening during those times. Obviously they didn't get good, so I finally (For my sanity) decided to walk away.
AEW gives me everything I need out of a wrestling promotion
- Longer matches & feuds
- Not treating the audience like children
- Not hiding away from blood or hardcore type matches
- Willing to showcase NEW talent and actually build up your company for years by creating stars that will become main eventers in a couple of years.
AEW isn't perfect, but I'd gladly take its faults over WWE any day of the week. I hope WWE changes for the good, but I'm done with them on many levels. Competition is good for the industry.
Sorry for my long ass post. Back to feeling this never-ending dread after having a pretty good Saturday (Moral of the story: Don't have good days anymore)
I'll be back for my normal Dynamite review (Hopefully) on Wednesday. Stay safe everyone.
Some stray thoughts on all this:
* Saudi Deals are still in place, so that's a hard no for me financially supporting them while that's going on.
* I'm happy for the talent - this is tremendous news for them and hopefully the workplace gets better.
* I hope this lights a fire under Tony's ass to get a structure in place and fast for Talent Relations/Creative that isn't just texting him to figure out what's going on because he's stretched so thin.
* NXT B&G era was some of the best booking WWE has ever seen, so lets hope it slowly transitions to something more akin to that.
* Hopefully Hunter surrounds himself with a good brain trust again as he did with NXT during its heyday.
* Rising tides lift all ships - so lets hope that reflects on AEWs quality as well as WWEs
* Saudi Deals are still in place, so that's a hard no for me financially supporting them while that's going on.
* I'm happy for the talent - this is tremendous news for them and hopefully the workplace gets better.
* I hope this lights a fire under Tony's ass to get a structure in place and fast for Talent Relations/Creative that isn't just texting him to figure out what's going on because he's stretched so thin.
* NXT B&G era was some of the best booking WWE has ever seen, so lets hope it slowly transitions to something more akin to that.
* Hopefully Hunter surrounds himself with a good brain trust again as he did with NXT during its heyday.
* Rising tides lift all ships - so lets hope that reflects on AEWs quality as well as WWEs
Thanks for your thoughts, as always. Hopefully, things start to look up for you.
I hesitate to speak too directly on the TK/Gresham situation but I will say I always expect A LOT from people in a leadership/ownership position like TK. He has a responsibility to create a safe and positive work environment and to treat all of his employees with dignity and respect. Unfortunately, there have been multiple signs over the years that he struggles with this.
All I can say is that I truly hope TK figures it out sooner rather than later and I wish Gresham the best in whatever he does next.
Done with the thread for a while. The same people dismissive of Black wrestlers' treatment in AEW continue to be so. I'm tired of arguing with people that they should have empathy for people who have no power, people who have faced racist treatment throughout their careers, asking for some modicum of respect and being shit on in turn. It's easy for privileged individuals, and white people especially, to look at a Black person and say, "If it was me I just would have dealt with it and moved on." I'm tired of it. And even, as so many have pathetically said to defend their POV, when we have "very little information to go on," there's more than enough at hand to say that --
You should be standing up for Gresham, for Lio, for Swole. You should do the bare minimum as a fan to encourage this to stop happening to Black wrestlers at AEW.
You should be standing up for Gresham, for Lio, for Swole. You should do the bare minimum as a fan to encourage this to stop happening to Black wrestlers at AEW.
Time to run back Fox vs. Swerve
One of my favourite hardcore matches of all time.
I made a thing to get hyped for Wednesday. It's a highlights package of their first match.
View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vVRfLNnv0vg
View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vVRfLNnv0vg
I have no doubt that TK could've and should've done better. However if any of Gresham's issues included the belief that he should've gone over clean over Claudio then I'm not sure what to tell him. They're trying to get this promotion off the ground and having the title on a known star helps that. I think it would have been interesting to have him in the main heel faction but he'd probably have taken a back seat to Brian Cage as the main singles focal point of that group so I completely understand any problems he had with that.
I doubt there are (or at least were - who knows what happens with Gresham gone) any huge plans for Brian Cage considering he was pretty clearly on the chopping block until Khan wanted to keep him around for ROH. IMO he's a Lance Archer-kind of obstacle you can put against any face champion for one show (but don't really build on them for any extended period of time.)
It's the same situation that happened with Hangman and Jericho when AEW started. People wanted Hangman but Jericho was the smart decision, business wise.
Good. Don't stop. This is absolutely a discussion that needs to happen.
I hope you didn't take my reply earlier as trying to shut down discourse. I just perceived the verbiage used to be getting dangerously close to the bad faith arguments that I've seen Vincels throw out on Twitter. Saying things like some talent doesn't count as black representation because they're "too light skinned" or Keith doesn't count because he "talks too white." I think we can all agree those are disgusting takes and that we're all better than that here, so my apologies if it seemed like a callout. It probably would've been a better idea to send a PM.
I am really looking forward to Dynamite, but I'm looking at the Interim championship and feeling that maybe Moxley shouldn't have become the champion. It would've been a nice oportunity to get the title changing hands more frequently showcasing different talets. Right now, while I know it's going to be an amazing match, I know Rush is going to lose and that takes away from the excitement of a championship match.
I'd say the same of the Rosa match, but at least there was the eliminator match and it helps in the build.
It's already hard to care about an "interim" championship knowing that Punk will stay champ when he comes back, it's harder to care when winners and losers are basically pre-set
I'd say the same of the Rosa match, but at least there was the eliminator match and it helps in the build.
It's already hard to care about an "interim" championship knowing that Punk will stay champ when he comes back, it's harder to care when winners and losers are basically pre-set
Mox/Punk at some point is going to be an incredible feud.
that was my original and current stance, watching people lose in "hard fights" to Moxley over and over again is not that appealing.
Oh AEW has issues when it comes to people of color. I think Tony's problem is he comes across as a naive kid in a candy store. I think he feels like since he's a minority those criticisms of race don't pertain to him because he's not white. He needs somone to pull him aside and really call this shit out. How many black people have enough power or security in AEW to do that? I can imagine how frustrating it most be when people like swole, Gresham or rush try to bring this stuff up and Tony's just like but I am brown and doesn't listen or comprehend what they're saying. That's what a lot of people in this thread miss. I'm mixed and I've always considered myself black and it's the frustration you have in your life when people bring up that I have a black friend argument or you're one of the good ones. I am here for the real talk you don't need to or have to hold back.
For sure, my issue is that between now and then, hard to care about whatever happens with the championship because I doubt Moxely is going to lose it before Punk comes back
Inevitability will always be boring to me. Kenny Omega waiting to lose the belt to Hangman for that long term storytelling was the worst. Waiting for Wardlow to turn on MJF and beat him second place. If I had a better memory something else third place. Thunder Rosa winning at the "right match" after losing in a bad match to Britt at the ppv fourth.
The Saudi stuff is so messy. When they first announced it I cancelled my WWE Network sub and to this day the only one of those shows I've seen is The Greatest Royal Rumble (I still had it through to the end of that month so I figured I'd watch it since it was paid for). My cousin's still had a sub (I have a special needs cousin who loves wrestling) so for some of the bigger shows I'd go over their houses to watch them. Then I subscribed to Peacock's $5 tier to watch IndyCar which was followed by that Peacock/WWE deal. With the weirdness around streaming deals and how companies make money from them I've allowed myself to watch some WWE "Premium Live Events" on there (though still no Saudi shows). That said, with the state of NXT and WWE has been such that I tend to only watch old stuff, the Royal Rumble, Wrestlemania, Summerslam and maybe the occasional other show here or there if I have nothing better to do. If I wasn't already subscribed to Peacock for other reasons I would not have subscribed to watch WWE content but since I have the sub I figure I'll allow myself to watch some.
It's interesting because Khan (or Kahn? Can't remember) becoming Co-CEO with Stephanie and HHH replacing Pritchard in creative means we could actually see the booking situation improve sooner than expected? I mean, the story has long been that the writers would finish the script for the next show and then 30 minutes before the show Vince would tear up the script and completely rewrite it. For as much as writers got blamed for shitty promos and booking a lot of signs have pointed to the writers actually getting very little onto the show over the years. Maybe HHH takes a more collaborative approach with the writers? Also, HHH is a worker, workers hate scripted promos. NXT being what it is it makes sense for promos to be scripted but I genuinely wonder if we see WWE proper take a more AEW-like approach in wrestlers having more control over their characters and promos with HHH just having final say? And maybe wrestlers lower down the card and wrestlers who aren't as proven on the mic are still fully scripted but maybe don't see talent like Becky Lynch get these awful gimmicks thrust upon them anymore? I can't see myself watching weekly WWE TV as I literally don't have the means to but this is probably the most exciting WWE news since the Network was originally announced.
So many suspect Dunn's departure won't be too far off now. With Vince gone as all signs seem to point to Vince being the only reason Dunn lasted as long as he did and had as much sway as he did. Unfortunately Dunn's shitty production style will probably linger but maybe we see an immediate improvement in commentary? As I've said before, this company has been built around Vince and his way of doing things not to mention I believe he's still a majority shareholder in the company (and his daughter and son-in-law hold major positions in the company) so unless Vince is pressured to sell off his stock I think it'll be awhile before we truly leave behind Vince McMahon's WWE but the future of the company and where things could go is admittedly kind of exciting.
I wonder about that. Obviously Gresham took a lot of pride in being ROH's champion and he's a super talented guy that I think could've been built up to be the face of ROH but that's not what happened. It's unfortunate because if the long view on this was always to have a big pre-established star come in and win the world title then I think they should've actually moved the title off of Gresham before this most recent show.
I say that because with the fierce passion Gresham had for ROH and his talent in the ring he should be the modern face of ROH and thus kept away from top talent like Claudio until they were ready to put him over. I think the way to go would've been for Bandito to beat Gresham back at Supercard of Honor and from there on Gresham becomes ROH's Adam Page. Hangman wasn't necessarily the most oozing with personality guy his first year in AEW, but he improved and was built up over time and now he's one of AEW's top stars. Does Gresham have Hangman potential? Not sure but I definitely think he has the potential to be built to a top guy even if he ended up on the lower end of that tier.
You could argue that perhaps that was their long term plan for him but even setting aside what happened at the PPV based on how he was being booked leading up to Death Before Dishonor I would not have found my future there to be very promising either. His heel turn was so unearned and not a way to lean into Gresham's strengths that I don't blame him for being upset about that.
And you're right that there was never a scenario where Gresham beats Claudio, let alone beat him clean but maybe there should've been? Think about. At this point in his career Claudio is such an established star that he could easily put over someone like Gresham and be fine but also doing so would've basically made an overnight star out of Gresham. Not to mention that kind of result would get more attention than the result everyone expected. I loved Supercard of Honor but I skipped this show. Why? Even though I knew the matches would be at least a baseline of good the build to it was terrible, I knew the result of basically every single match beforehand and I am not hard up for good wrestling right now. Between AEW, NJPW, Stardom and whatever else happening elsewhere you can find great wrestling everywhere so I didn't need to see a $40 PPV that was solid on paper but they didn't actually sell me on.
It seems like that show did well so maybe that show solidified a bright future for ROH and will land them a TV deal but ROH currently feels like the island of misfit toys to me. The ROH talent hasn't been built up at all so they mostly all feel like jobbers particularly because none of them ever stand a chance against established AEW talent. So then ROH is this thing where lower in the card ROH talent faces off against ROH talent (sometimes for meaningless titles), lower in the card AEW talent wrestles AEW talent (sometimes for meaningless titles) and AEW stars beat ROH talent for, again, meaningless titles.
There was a time where there was good reason to watch NXT because in addition to it having great wrestling on a regular basis it felt very distinct from WWE. Now it's just less important WWE with worse wrestling. Having Gresham beat Claudio helps build ROH's identity and helps it feel like a more distinct product. Claudio beating Gresham instead just makes ROH feel like less important AEW. The wrestling is just as good but the booking and angles are way worse and none of it matters anywhere near as much as AEW. Why should I watch ROH when the top people are people I regularly see on Dynamite and Rampage often in feuds and angles I care more about?
Happy to see AR Fox get a look
Time to run back Fox vs. Swerve
Yes, please give me a new match between Dante Fox Jr/AR Fox vs Swerve/Killshot.
And he doesn't look the least bit rusty. Outshined everyone in that match.
There's no replacing the Meat Man for me. Shida is up next though, I miss her being on Dynamite.
Shida rules. Happy to see her back in an AEW ring. Loved that knee charge on the apron with her opponent on the top turnbuckle. And she introduced a second-rope meteora.
Couldn't have happened. People here and online tell me Tony Khan doesn't care about black wrestlers.
- Status