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All Elite Wrestling |OT10| Punk goes All Out with a heel turn

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thepenguin55

thepenguin55

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Oct 28, 2017
11,823
IMCaprica said:
I've noticed in the past few weeks I've watched less and less of AEW, and until tonight when I re-upped on my Stardom sub I wasn't even replacing it with anything. I can't really think of what the breaking point was. I think I'm burned out on Tony's booking, and I don't think there's much that can be done about it.
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NinjaGarden said:
I thought the ROH stuff was cool at first but it really needs to be spun off on its own soon.
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A. Tony's booking of women has always needed help.
B. Between booking 4 AEW shows in a week, ROH, stuff like Forbidden Door along with whatever other extracurricular booking Tony has been doing and the two sports teams Tony is involved with I think he's way over extended. I think the most recent Rampage is very demonstrative of this. Outside of some botches the matches were largely solid but any time the wrestling stopped on that show and an angle happened the angles were all largely bad or super half baked.
Fitts said:
Fun af main event. Great to have Fenix back. I honestly thought PP was done with Andrade but it seems like a matter of time anyway. Free Private Party!
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I wonder if Private Party is on a full time contract at this point? For awhile those guys were trading off on being injured which kind of happened around the time their contracts probably would've come due. Talk about a team who's potential has felt totally squandered in AEW…
Violence Jack said:
At least he went out winning his last singles match against Aaron Solo. But to me, he was a face version of Serpentico. But I liked the guy well enough.

This might sound cruel, but I'm starting to wonder if this is about to lead to a pairing down of the roster by getting rid of those on small contracts that fans just aren't interested in. For as bloated as the men's roster is, that might not be the worst idea.
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He's a guy that's talented but who has a very low ceiling. He was never really going to be anything more than a jobber at a big company like AEW.
RS1984 said:
As long as it's 100% sour boy.
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Oh but sour boy's the worst!
LonestarZues said:
Not really new news on Santana, but putting up the Fightful Report for those interested.
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I remember mentioning something about Santana and Ortiz not getting along weeks ago and nobody here knew what I was talking about and I couldn't find anything supporting this so I thought I imagined the rumor. lol. It sucks but honestly if these guys aren't getting along they should split them up. Keeping them together while they're butting heads doesn't really benefit anyone. With Santana being injured they don't even really need to make a story of it. Just when Santana returns you bring him back as a singles guy doing something else.
 
NinjaGarden

NinjaGarden

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,550
thepenguin55 said:
A. Tony's booking of women has always needed help.
B. Between booking 4 AEW shows in a week, ROH, stuff like Forbidden Door along with whatever other extracurricular booking Tony has been doing and the two sports teams Tony is involved with I think he's way over extended. I think the most recent Rampage is very demonstrative of this. Outside of some botches the matches were largely solid but any time the wrestling stopped on that show and an angle happened the angles were all largely bad or super half baked.
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Yeah...also too many damn belts with ROH folks running around on TV.
 
oddjobs

oddjobs

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Oct 27, 2017
8,887
I would imagine Santana will stay under AEW contract until he's healed up, but unless something changes he's probably gone after that.
 
EddyLovesTunaRolls

EddyLovesTunaRolls

Member
Oct 27, 2017
5,847
plagiarize said:
It feels like Santana is happiest doing singles wrestling in Puerto Rico.

And it feels like Ortiz is very invested in AEW.

I think the time for them to be a team has ended.
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Could it be that Santana wants to be a major star and a top contender while Ortiz is perfectly happy to be in the flunky role and have his ceiling be in the mid-card? That could be a bone of contention between them but I don't want to assume that's what it is. They both have what it takes to be a top tag-team in AEW it's always been the booking that got in the way of that for them.

Santana absolutely could be a championship player in the upper-card if he was given that chance and booked that way somewhere. Hell he could even do it in AEW. He's amazing in the ring and can go on the mic. He's just had really bad luck with injuries. Assuming it's even an injury keeping him off TV this time. Does AEW have a Puerto Rican super star that could be huge in NYC? Santana and Ortiz absolutely should've been that for whenever AEW was doing East Coast shows. Should've been booked strong to get wins on their own on some of those shows. Kind of like how when Eddie Kingston is in New York you know you're going to get some good shit.

Could be my memory is failing me because of how they were used (I.E. not featured much) the rest of the time.

NinjaGarden said:
Yeah...also too many damn belts with ROH folks running around on TV.
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This is where I'm at. They don't need to be doing ROH shit on AEW TV. It's fine if Tony wanted to own it for the video library. But he should commit to keeping it PPV only with Social Media builds for shit the way AEW was at the beginning before they got their TV deal. If they can figure out a way to get a TV deal with someone later to put ROH back on TV that's fine but until then they should cut that shit out. It's making the AEW product suffer in my opinion. Also the Women's Division is way worse off because of this now. Not only do the women have to compete with AEW Men's Division now for TV time now they have to compete with the ROH shit.
 
Superpupperbabysassy

Superpupperbabysassy

Member
Oct 29, 2017
12,741
Normanski 2.0 said:
assuming AEW isn't in Hall H then it's definitely the way to go. It's been almost a decade since I went but seats were first come, first served so if you wanted to see Marvel then be willing to sleep overnight on the street outside the convention centre.
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I'm a hall H vet. I've attended many panels. The AEW panel is at the third largest hall. It's was part of Warner Brothers press release. I'm thinking it's going to be something fun. It's also taking place during Death before dishonor.
 
thepenguin55

thepenguin55

Member
Oct 28, 2017
11,823
NinjaGarden said:
Yeah...also too many damn belts with ROH folks running around on TV.
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Honestly, I wonder if ROH ever gets a new TV deal? Tony's best chance for one would probably be when AEW's deal is up. I suspect Tony will try to move Rampage from TNT to TBS because setting whatever anyone feels about booking aside Rampage hasn't recovered since the most recent string of having to move around to accommodate sports.

Dynamite took a ratings hit awhile ago though it has since then mostly recovered but Rampage is still is doing well below 500k when it should generally be around 600k. So I think Tony will really push to move Rampage to TBS and make ROH something of a consolation prize for TNT as I think TNT is Tony's only chance for getting ROH on a notable network. Otherwise it's streaming or bust.
 
chuckddd

chuckddd

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Oct 25, 2017
23,169
Warner Bros/Discovery have like 30 different stations, so they could easily slot an RoH show on one of the lower profile ones. Or possibly a non-prime slot on TBS/TNT. But that's what is hurting Rampage.

I agree that the sooner RoH has its own show, the better. Maybe TK has something up his sleeve for the ppv. But maybe, WBD is waiting for the ppv numbers before committing to anything.

oddjobs said:
I would imagine Santana will stay under AEW contract until he's healed up, but unless something changes he's probably gone after that.
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Iirc, his contract is up at the end of the month. TK is a good guy, so I could see him giving him something while he heals, but TK isn't a moron, so it won't be full pay unless he signs long term. I think Santana would make an excellent upper card RoH guy if that's what he wants to do, but he might just want to get away from Ortiz and start fresh.
 
EddyLovesTunaRolls

EddyLovesTunaRolls

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Oct 27, 2017
5,847
The roster is the most stacked it's ever been in my opinion and it's also the most uninterested I've ever been in the promotion overall. I guess it's just so many injuries keeping my faves off of TV. Also an arbitrary rule holding the women down even though there's more than enough good workers there to have shit popping off for them.
 
Mengetsu

Mengetsu

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Oct 27, 2017
8,812
www.wrestlinginc.com

Ricky Starks Opens Up About His Current Relationship With Cody Rhodes - Wrestling Inc.

Having true blue friends in pro wrestling can be tough to come by, but Ricky Starks found one in Cody Rhodes.
www.wrestlinginc.com www.wrestlinginc.com


"I know a lot of people make up these rumors and ideas because I'm friends with someone that certain things happened, and it's just funny to me. It's like, 'Hey, how dare he still talk to…'. It's like, if you had a real friendship with someone, you guys would know that it doesn't matter where they go or what happens to them. Yes, him — Cody and Tony [Khan] brought me in, for sure. I still talk to Cody, I still ask him for advice. There's nothing wrong with that. I'm not a turncoat or something like that."

Starks made his AEW debut by challenging Rhodes for the TNT Championship. He came on Rhodes' radar due to the promo work he was doing on social media following his tenure in the NWA. Since then, Starks and Rhodes formed a strong relationship, so much so that he was a regular on the "Rhodes To The Top" reality show.

"It's just a genuine friend to have and somebody that actually cares and looks out for me because that's very few and far between," Starks said. "The other person in AEW is Sonjay [Dutt]. Sonjay actually looks out and is helpful with me, and sometimes you need that, man. Sometimes you're just a misunderstood person and people just don't want to bother. It's good to have these people that do care."
 
BFIB

BFIB

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Oct 25, 2017
11,678
I'm in agreement as well that RoH needs to be splintered off on its own thing. Enough time has passed, even do the show on YouTube, Dark/Elevation puts up good numbers. I want my classic AEW back with Miro becoming God's AEW Champion.
 
Matticers

Matticers

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Oct 28, 2017
2,204
Yeah, add me to the list of people who are over ROH being on the AEW shows. I didn't mind it at first when Tony bought the company and the build up to the first PPV but now since ROH doesn't have it's own show, they have to do the build up on Dynamite/Rampage. I like the talent in ROH but it seems unfair to the AEW roster who need the screen time and there's little time to go around each week in the first place. ROH desperately needs its own show ASAP. I don't mind guys crossing over like Joe doing both shows, that's great. But unless they're stars like Joe, let's try to keep the two separate. I get that they have to sell the PPV and all but they need to hurry up and get to a point where ROH is it's own thing again. I'll more than likely watch a ROH weekly show or whatever it is assuming it's a decent time slot but I don't really enjoy it being force fed to me when I'm here for the AEW roster I've grown to love.
 
Kraid

Kraid

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Oct 25, 2017
7,275
Cuck Zone
I'm hoping that after this upcoming ROH PPV we get more focus on the AEW storylines. I'm going to my first AEW show in Minneapolis, so I'm hoping we have a good build up for that card lol.
 
Anth0ny

Anth0ny

Member
Oct 25, 2017
47,071
AEW right now:

no punk
no danielson
no kenny
no adam cole
no samoa joe
no jungle boy
no jeff hardy
no mjf

*heavy integration of New Japan over the last month+ only for that talent to vanish into thin air immediately afterwards

*heavy integration of Ring of Honor, a 2nd tier promotion

that's just stupid and I'm not surprised people are bored right now. things will pick back up.
 
BFIB

BFIB

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Oct 25, 2017
11,678
With the injuries, I was really hoping that would mean opportunities for others to get larger storylines.
 
EvilDead1987

EvilDead1987

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Nov 4, 2021
2,117
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AEW is in a unique position with ROH. It needs to be featured on Dynamite & Rampage to sell the idea to WB execs. You won't get a big deal for ROH if it's regulated to YouTube. This is about launching a second brand for AEW. It's going to take some time.

Having ROH under the AEW banner will help both companies. You can lend talent back and forth and give a great place for the rookies of AEW to learn the craft better. Once it gets started, I imagine there won't be too much crossover, but ROH will probably be a staple of AEW going forward.

Also putting ROH belts on undercard AEW talent will be very beneficial to both companies. The ROH Tag Titles can act as a secondary Tag Title in AEW. The tag division is so stacked, that they need a secondary Tag title just to give all the talented teams something to fight for if they aren't in the main title feud.

I'm generally very excited for the future prospects of ROH. It will just be a while until it settles into a groove.
 
oddjobs

oddjobs

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Oct 27, 2017
8,887
Generally speaking I still don't quite understand the appeal in trying to run ROH as a separate brand. Sure, it has recognition and was loved by a group of die hard fans, but many of those are already watching AEW and there's not really a notable "pro-ROH, not watching AEW"-audience.

Inevitably (at least for a good long while to start) whatever shows they will run under the ROH-banner will sell less tickets / PPVs / or get fewer viewers than what they have going on with AEW. Much of the work they've done to build up the AEW brand is left on the table.
Then you currently have the talent of the two brands mixed up anyways, so there's no "you can only see this on ROH!"-type of thing to sell it on.

I honestly wouldn't be surprised if ROH as a separate business ends up being gone sometime next year.
 

John Doe

Avenger
Jan 24, 2018
3,443
Anth0ny said:
AEW right now:

no punk
no danielson
no kenny
no adam cole
no samoa joe
no jungle boy
no jeff hardy
no mjf

*heavy integration of New Japan over the last month+ only for that talent to vanish into thin air immediately afterwards

*heavy integration of Ring of Honor, a 2nd tier promotion

that's just stupid and I'm not surprised people are bored right now. things will pick back up.
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What're the ratings like right now? More or less the same?

Kenny seems to be pretty hurt and Danielson & Punk have more time behind them than they do ahead of them. I think I'd prefer if they and a few others of the older generation left AEW in 2-3 years.

Wrestling is best when you have new people on top and everything is refreshed. Bret/Shawn - Rock/Austin - Brock/Triple H - Batista/Cena. The show looked and felt different from each era. WWE only really started to feel stale when Cena was on top for the better part of a decade.

I'd have no problem if Kenny etc left and The Bucks, Sammy, MJF and Jungle Boy become the new faces of the promotion. I'm sure there will still be mercy deals like how Austin and Cena have with WWE but I fear that there will be a "glass ceiling" if those guys are still there in 3 years. Not because they will actively bury any of the younger talent but just their presence, unless the fans completely turn on them.
 
UmbranUndying

UmbranUndying

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Feb 20, 2022
414
I appreciate Tony Khan's ambition and respect for ROH's legacy by positioning it a serious brand being featured on AEW television, but I also agree that it's gotten in the way of AEW's booking and I can't help but feel that TK has spread himself way too thin with all the plates he's had to juggle. Ever since Hangman won the belt I've felt like AEW has struggled to establish those long term arcs that I originally loved the company for. Wardlow felt like the last major beat from 2019/2020 to pay off and instead of new long term plots to replace the ones that concluded, everything feels built around shorter intervals.

The rash of injuries, Forbidden Door, and the ROH acquisition haven't helped at all in this regard, but I do really miss how early AEW's PPV cycles felt like mini-seasons of a serialized TV show, rather than the month to month build it's been for so long now.
 
Rivenblade

Rivenblade

Member
Nov 1, 2017
37,130
ROH is cool and I've loved the last two big ROH PPVs (Final Battle and Supercard of Honor), but it's clearly taking time away from the main AEW stories. Can't wait for ROH to get its own distribution platform. My good will towards having it on AEW TV every week has been significantly depleted.

…and I loved Gresham vs. Moriarty.
 
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Wamapoke

Wamapoke

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Apr 11, 2018
2,726
Glad I'm not alone on this RoH fatigue. Company could barely string together 100 people to its shows in the last few years of its existence. Is not worth trying to bring back.
 
cjelly

cjelly

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Oct 27, 2017
6,271
ROH should've just replaced Dark or Elevation. I also don't think putting out PPVs every 3 months without a regular show is a great idea.
 
Tabaxi

Tabaxi

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Nov 18, 2018
12,931
I think the ROH stuff in a vacuum is fine, but it sort of exemplifies an issue I've personally had with AEW for awhile, which is that at times it feels like Tony is more interested in his late 2000s/early 2010s ROH/PWG nostalgia than putting on a modern, forward thinking wrestling product.
 
Toli08

Toli08

Member
Oct 27, 2017
2,256
Haven't really posted in a while, because didn't want to be negative. But yeah losing Punk and MJF sucks. Outside of FTR and Christian it's been meh for me. Ive been sour on the ROH stuff from the start, never watched ROH have zero interest in caring about the belts from that promotion.

It just seems Tony created a brand split by just buying a promotion and then throwing there belts into AEW. Why am I supposed to care about the ROH TV Title? Just because Lethal cuts a backstage promo every week that is basically the same every week?

They put the tag belts on the Bucks why? None of that made zero sense. Should of just put the belts on Swerve and Lee from the start. Just felt like political bullshit so the Bucks can say they are the first 2 time AEW Champs.

Hopefully Punk is back soon, cuz I was so pumped for his run as Champ!
 
Kurita

Kurita

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Oct 26, 2017
12,751
La France
Toli08 said:
It just seems Tony created a brand split by just buying a promotion and then throwing there belts into AEW. Why am I supposed to care about the ROH TV Title? Just because Lethal cuts a backstage promo every week that is basically the same every week?
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lol tell me about it. Feels like they've been playing the same goddamn promo on loop for 3 months. Doesn't help that Joe isn't even there to give them fresh material.
 
Fhtagn

Fhtagn

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Oct 25, 2017
5,615
Toli08 said:
They put the tag belts on the Bucks why? None of that made zero sense. Should of just put the belts on Swerve and Lee from the start. Just felt like political bullshit so the Bucks can say they are the first 2 time AEW Champs.
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Because the Hardy's were gonna win it and the match was derailed after being announced, so they had to hot swap it to the bucks so they could do the Christian storyline and then hand the belts off to another team once TK had time to adjust his plans.

So much of what's going on right now boils down to "shit happens, and has."
 
Mengetsu

Mengetsu

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Oct 27, 2017
8,812
Jeff derailed the tag team title situation. Sucks but things happen sometimes. I'm ok with the current situation.
 
Toli08

Toli08

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Oct 27, 2017
2,256
Kurita said:
lol tell me about it. Feels like they've been playing the same goddamn promo on loop for 3 months. Doesn't help that Joe isn't even there to give them fresh material.
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Yeah should just not even have it on the show. I would of been more interested till Joe is good and ready, that they just focused on Singh. Have him come out and just destroy guys.
 
Toli08

Toli08

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Oct 27, 2017
2,256
Fhtagn said:
Because the Hardy's were gonna win it and the match was derailed after being announced, so they had to hot swap it to the bucks so they could do the Christian storyline and then hand the belts off to another team once TK had time to adjust his plans.

So much of what's going on right now boils down to "shit happens, and has."
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They could of easily just swapped the Hardys and Swerve/Lee and done the same thing. Heck the Bucks lost their last two matches before they randomly got a title shot. It's just dumb booking it's WWE type of booking.
 
oddjobs

oddjobs

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Oct 27, 2017
8,887
Bucks having the titles also served the purpose of pushing the "main storyline" forward (i.e. them & Page getting back together)
 
Fhtagn

Fhtagn

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,615
Toli08 said:
They could of easily just swapped the Hardys and Swerve/Lee and done the same thing. Heck the Bucks lost their last two matches before they randomly got a title shot. It's just dumb booking it's WWE type of booking.
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They had something like 48-72 hours to adapt to the situation and throwing in Lee/Swerve and having them win would have been extremely weird booking with no precedent/build.

Instead we got this nice surprise win after they sold a break up angle for a month or two.

Not saying this is perfect but given the incredible stress TK has to be under from the ludicrous number of injuries and last second changes lately, I'm happy we're at least getting good matches on the regular even if every storyline plan for the summer got thrown out except Kingston/Jericho.
 
WowCoolRobot

WowCoolRobot

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Aug 15, 2021
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