-
Ever wanted an RSS feed of all your favorite gaming news sites? Go check out our new Gaming Headlines feed! Read more about it here.
Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez campaigns with Bernie Sanders. Held largest rally in Iowa of any candidate. Endorsed by Naomi Klein at climate change summit
- Thread starter Tracygill
- Start date
bUt ShE wOnT mAkE a DiFfErEnCe
Bernie's right, we truly are stronger together.
imo when they've voted together 95% of time since they've been together in congress, it kind of sounds like they overlap in most areas tbh.
Last edited:
Maybe negatively given that they're so similar philosophically, but Bernie's liked a lot more on the national stage.
It's people whose knowledge of intersectional theory begins and ends with "This person is a minority AND a woman, how quaint."
it's definitely not just on Era unfortunately
I could probably write a dissertation on why Bernie is so singularly reviled by a vocal contingent of liberals, but the short version is that pretty much everything about his appeal and success as a national political figure plays against the flaws and contradictions in how liberals have constructed their political identities. AOC, despite being ideologically similar, doesn't expose those contradictions to the same degree, in large part because she's a young Latina and because she engages in the sort of "I'm one of you" cultural signaling to Democrats that Bernie never would
Regarding Bernie and Warren, there are nuances and there are pretty big differences between the two candidates. One area I've outlined is foreign policy. Even as Bolivia is facing a coup one is silent, while the other is saying what anyone else watching the coup unfold would say.
tbh while i recognize we live in this grotesque timeline where iowa and new hampshire are the most important places in the universe and so they objectively have to put a lot of focus there if they want to win, i'd love to see some of this energy from his campaign in the south. it was a big misstep for him in 2016, and he's had a lot of growth in terms of changing his approach and reworking his campaign this go around, so i'm hopeful he will.
What has Warren said about the Bolivian coup? I think the signaling, especially on foreign policy matters; and Warren's record voting for the military budget increases, and talking about making a "green armed forces", that matters too. The solidarity Bernie gets from other leftists around the world is important to me as well. It is significant, for example that Lula endorsed Bernie.
Wow. Interesting I would love to hear more as I'm not an American so it's just so weird for me to see this behaviour from the outside. To me sometimes it seems like certain liberals get more riled by Bernie and European style social democracy than republicans do.
Some of his earliest events from this year have been in the south. I think for sure the strategy is very different.
I answered with I don't know response as I imagine her audience is already...well, in on Bernie. She's the closest aligned to him of any candidate in the race, so I'm unsure how she draws people to him.
If anything this makes the youth vote even more powerful for Bernie, and we know that dropped like a cliff when Hilldawgs took it in '16. Our greatest fear is having to hold up dinosaurs who are everything claimed about Clinton but actually real, like Biden, or flipflopping neoliberal prince Pete Buttigeg.
If anything this makes the youth vote even more powerful for Bernie, and we know that dropped like a cliff when Hilldawgs took it in '16. Our greatest fear is having to hold up dinosaurs who are everything claimed about Clinton but actually real, like Biden, or flipflopping neoliberal prince Pete Buttigeg.
there definitely are liberals and centrists who hate Bernie because they disagree with his ideology, but an awful lot of the specific revulsion he triggers is for much shallower reasons (he criticized Hillary from the left, he doesn't look or sound or use body language like liberals' idea of a "smart" highly-educated politician, etc)
i'm sure we'll eventually get a "wow that's bad" tweet from her, and that'll do just as much to help the people of bolivia as sanders's did (which is to say: not all that much!)
(i personally find bernie's commitment to anti-imperialism somewhat questionable because he's still an american, running for president, and americans love to lick boot, but also because he called literal war criminal joe biden a close friend during the previous debate... and then brought up that joe biden was a war criminal like twenty minutes later. he also gave that weird boot licker defense of g*bbard during that dust up a few weeks ago, and it's like, my dude, is that really the best rhetoric to defend her with? this is all on top of him pushing for the government to build useless military toys in vermont because Jobs.)
(admittedly i do have a certain level of skepticism because i lived through the 2008 primary where One Candidate was praised as being The Great Peace Bringer, while The Other was decried as an evil War Hawk Out To Destroy All Brown People, and we all know how that story played out)
all that being said, Sanders is, of course, a step in the right direction for america (or should i say... left direction) and you should vote for him.
Skeptics of Bernie will stay skeptical of his win down to Bernie having an electoral lead over Trump in the GE.
I'm worried that Bernie and Warren will split the votes in the primaries, giving Biden an easy win. I'm happy with either Bernie or Warren, but voting for Warren in the primary.
I still don't know who is the Great Peace Bringer and the evil War Hawk out to Destroy all Brown People in 2008? Are we talking about Palin and McCain somehow being better on foreign policy because I'm certain Clinton wouldn't have a radically different foreign policy than Obama...
We came, we saw, he died
I basically don't think we can do better than Bernie on foreign policy in this country. He really is a once in a lifetime candidate if that's the issue you care most about (it increasingly is becoming that way for me); and as you say, even then it's not like perfect. But like you can go on YouTube and watch Bernie talk about Allende and other Latin American countries where the US backed fascists to replace democratically elected leaders. And the NYtime published a "hit-piece" about protests he attended in Nicaragua while the US was giving aid to death squads. Meanwhile Warren was a republican at the time voting for people who supported these policies. I don't understand how people don't see the difference between him and Warren, frankly.
Can anyone name me another American politician running, that has said to give Israel's apartheid regime money(or authoritarian regimes for that matter) only after they meet certain humanitarian conditions? Who was leading the battle to stop the Yemen conflict? There is a reason why Bernie has been the only choice for Muslim Americans in both 2016 and now..
How Yemen crystallized Sanders's 2020 foreign policy message
How Yemen crystallized Sanders's 2020 foreign policy message
Thank goodness we have the real progressives to tell everyone else how progressive they are!
I recall a bunch of posters telling me how Kamala was just as progressive as Bernie because she supported his Medicare for all plan! Except... she kept walking back on it. That's basically all these candidates in a nutshell. None of them are credibly as good as Bernie on issues I care most about, and the constant need to lie to people about this seems wrong.
AOC was too young to run against her Abuela. That's why you see some people who love her and hate Bernie.
Why couldn't one candidate's support move to the other's when it's clear one of them isn't able to continue? Doesn't have to mean their split will allow Biden or Buttigieg to win.
That is indeed a fact, and I must be one of the few people who, the more I thought about that fact, the more I went from Warrenflexible to Bernie curious to a straight up 3 on the Warren-Bernie Kinsey scale.
Somehow, in one fell swoop, Bernie suffering from a heart attack brought to light two things: on one hand, how urgent it is to fight for the change we need, for which Bernie is a singular vessel; on the other, how what Bernie represents is bigger than him. Every single candidate is human, vulnerable to whatever life brings, mortal; if anything, though, the fear of uncertainty attached to that is less acute in Bernie's case for me, because his election would represent something important in and of itself.
Also...fact is, it's not all that uncommon for presidents/presidential candidates to have to struggle through health issues
that's a lot of it but it's definitely not the whole story. if in some alternate reality AOC had run against HRC in the 2016 primary, there's no way she'd be nearly as hated from those quarters as Bernie is.
granted, part of that is due to Bernie's actual failings (particularly his history of putting his foot in his mouth on race/intersectionality), but I'm convinced it's mostly due to the reasons I said above, namely that Bernie is singularly at odds with how a lot of liberals have constructed their political identities
It's intentional. They want to apply "progressive" to any candidate to the point that it becomes meaningless so that calling Bernie the most progressive candidate means nothing.
American (neo-)liberalism in a political sense can be summarised as:
Complicated Policy = Good Policy
The truth is always in the middle so yo must always compromise
Market and corporate freedom IS democracy
'Class' is an individuals least important cultural signifier
Sanders isn't (as) liberal so when he says 'Americans deserve to be able to walk into a doctors office and be checked out for free' he's causing extreme cognitive - dissonance in the people who see his contrasting political plans as an attack on their morals.
Its very similar to how non-vegans react when they're told that eating meat is bad for the environment.
why did they have to remake Weekend At Bernie's as a political thriller, the original was just fine
I've never seen such heaping evidence that this word just means literally whatever the user wants it to mean
I imagine voting will go down (varying per state, of course) like this:
Biden 27%
Warren 23%
Sanders 20%
It's going to be hard to get one of them to drop out early enough to overcome the gap.
Idk about the rest, but the market and corporate freedom part being democracy seems close enough to an actual definition.
this is mostly accurate, but another part of it (among others) is that many liberals have formulated their identities around the idea that loyalty to the Democratic Party and to specific personalities within it (HRC, Pelosi, Obama, etc.) is a sufficient proxy for being a "good, progressive person," which means that the suggestion that those things are not in fact sufficient is experienced as a personal attack on their character; as I alluded to above, a major reason why AOC doesn't seem to trigger this response nearly as much is because she engages in a lot of in-group cultural signaling aimed at this specific sort of liberal
Almost as if Bernie has and continued to help shift the Overton window and AOC is and has been putting in the important work as well.
It's one of the reasons she's so important. She's forced her way through the cracks in the MSM filter which has kept the Overton window as far right as it has been dragged by Republicans with no counterbalance in the mainstream "left".
Yeah, I'm not sure how exactly she'll help grow his appeal. AOC isn't getting me on board with Bernie.
Maybe if (won't happen) it was Obama doing this for Bernie, I'd maybe be less opposed and begin to think he could meaningfully grow his base.
I think they love her and hate Bernie for the exact same reason.
what is it about Obama that is special for you? Enough to get you "on board" with Bernie of all people.
There were so many arguments about it in the primary thread. I remember people were arguing about Beto being progressive or not right before someone posted a tweet with him refusing to call himself progressive. It was hilarious
Yup. And then it will become a huge argument where we bring up votes and policies and whatnot. It's all to muddy the waters as they try to co-opt leftist language to seem better than they are without actually doing the actual progressive work. It's a shortcut for them.
Then they get mad when their neoliberal access to tax credits isn't popular
Not sure what you mean. Why would the endorsement and campaigning by the former President who I align with very closely politically (and generally really like), not significantly influence who I'd support in a primary?
oh ok, so Biden for now until otherwise? Just wasn't sure what you meant. Sounds good.
We know exactly how it's going to play in 2020 when the other side mentions non stop that their guy hasn't had any major health complications, while one of the Democratic hopefuls has.
I don't even think Bernie is likely to get the nomination anyway, so this is all pointless speculation, but if he was the candidate, he'd lose.
Nope - Beto was my candidate.
Not really supporting any of the top 4 honestly, but what it'd take me to push me into supporting them before the general would probably be an Obama endorsement (or a really good VP announcement).