A victim calling out their abuser is not necessarily the same as "cancel culture." You can say that one is a mistake while supporting the other unless you think hate mobs are an inevitable and unavoidable result of calling out abuse.
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Alec Holowka (Night in the Woods, TowerFall) accused of sexual assault [Update: Alec Holowka has reportedly passed away] [See staff posts/threadmarks]
- Thread starter TacomaSCDisaster
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A victim calling out their abuser is not necessarily the same as "cancel culture." You can say that one is a mistake while supporting the other unless you think hate mobs are an inevitable and unavoidable result of calling out abuse.
what is this "hate mob," exactly? Zoe Quinn made her allegations publicly, and this was newsworthy and widely reported on. Scott Benson and Bethany Hockenberry weighed their options and decided to publicly cut all ties with Holowka, which was also newsworthy and widely reported. Is your argument that Benson and Hockenberry did the wrong thing by cutting ties with Holowka, or that some of the people reacting to/reporting on Holowka did so in an uncivil manner, or what?
well, then please elaborate on who exactly did the wrong thing here and what exactly you think they should have done differently, because I'm not seeing the mischaracterization just yet
Again, I'm not so sure there were many people encouraging self harm or suicide. There are some gross posts in this thread celebrating it, so I'm sure there were individuals - But to pin blame on the public internet reaction to news of someone being outed as an abuser seems like a path toward pinning the blame on the person who outed the abuser.
What a sad, horrible mess, front to back. By his sister's account, he was also an abuse victim with mental health struggles. Just goes to show what a wretched, cyclical mess abuse is, and how it can poison and destroy multiple lives.
I'm sure the Internet will handle this in a measured, responsible fashion with empathy for all parties.
I'm sure the Internet will handle this in a measured, responsible fashion with empathy for all parties.
This happens way, way too much here and it's not cool at all.
Happened to me just the other day and I was like fuck that I'm not even gonna engage in the thread anymore thanks to it.
This is just... So sad.
My heart is aching for so many people involved in this situation.
I can't even put it into words.
Its just a dull ache.
My heart is aching for so many people involved in this situation.
I can't even put it into words.
Its just a dull ache.
The victims are not a part of the mob.
this guy gets it
Again, nowhere in my post did I say this was the victims fault. I actually said the opposite. Making assumptions about what I "actually mean" and putting words in my mouth doesn't change that.
Many ppl never head a real life contact with mental illnes and are very ignorant and clueless about it, and that's a fact!
I believe Holowka's DMs were open for a bit. I can't begin to imagine the rush of DMs saying "kill urself rapist" that he likely got.
Rewind time and not do it, I suppose.
This whole things is a rough read.
This. I'm surprised there aren't more people taking their own lives over things like this, regardless of the horrible things they might have done.
Yeah, I don't get why people are now going this was cause by "internet cancel culture", there's no evidence he was receiving mointains of abuse, he locked off twitter as soon as the incident happened, and given the way the gaming community actually is, it's far more likely that Zoe Quinn receiverd much much more abuse.
It can both be true that Quinn didn't do anything wrong and accusers can and do have every right to come forward, and that social media is a fucking dumpster fire filled with people who lack the maturity, intelligence, education, empathy, or life perspective to talk about anything that is complicated or tangled or messy or ugly. The internet-at-large still has zero idea how to deal with abuse, comforting the abused, dealing with abusers, mental illness, etc.
It's a problem with cancel culture all the way around. People read a public accusation and practically trip over themselves with excitement to bring down the accused. These are statements made on social media, they're not sworn statements in a court of law. I'm not saying Quinn or anyone specific is lying, that's not the point. The point is people hear one side of a story and go into a feeding frenzy to ruin a career. We seem to worry less about showing empathy and support for the accuser and more about lashing out with sanctimonious wrath against the accused.
Calling someone out for dehumanizing someone else by dehumanizing them yourself is not really a good look...
At the very least, start protesting in public places and set up unions!
That's long term. She could well have died in 40 years before any of these things take place while Alec continued abusing people and making bucks.
Doesn't address things.
What? Unions don't protect you from abusers, for one thing they are often male dominated.
I can see some reason for concern there, I suppose, but afaik he locked his account very shortly after Quinn's tweet
There needs to be other ways of going about these horrible situations other than trial by social media and the internet. It's not right, for any individual involved in the situation.
Whether he did or didn't doesn't change the fact that he suffered from depression and that it caused him to commit suicide.
He hasn't killed himself simply because he's been outed as an abuser. Show some fucking empathy for people with mental illness. It's likely that a lot of his past behaviour was down to his mental issues. Being able to explain why he did what he did (both the abuse and the suicide) doesn't absolve him but it at least gives decent people an opening to feel a bit of empathy and recognise this situation for what it is - shit for all concerned. You not being able to wait to jump on here and attack imaginary people who may or may not be trying to absolve him on twitter tells me everything I need to know about you. And you're no better than the people you're so quick to jump on here and criticise.
they can definitely help, though they're not enough in and of themselves
Nothing absolves him of his actions, but boy he really didn't deserve this end.
This is an absolutely terrible end.
This is an absolutely terrible end.
Making assumptions about what you actually mean is natural when you're super vague about what an "internet hate mob" is. Like, you're just blaming "cancel culture".
There was a long history of Holowka's acts of abuse that needed to be known and understood, but the ensuing reaction from the social media crowd wasn't the most productive one. Did Benson and Hockenberry talk to him?
User banned (1 week): disingenuous commentary and concern trolling surrounding sexual assault
These are just in the first 20 posts here. Let's not act like people weren't saying horrible things about this guy as soon as this broke.
That's not an alternative for her speaking up about her abuse. Victims deserve to be heard. Plus Zoe Quinn already supports those things in the industry. She should be able to speak about her abuse publically, the problem is our society's inability to deal with this subject in a manner that is anything other than destructive.
And how do you know he wanted their support or even accepted it?
Guys, when you see something like this, don't spread it, don't engage with it, just report it.
As a women in a male dominated industry, I would say this is incredibly naive
My condoleances. While the accusations at his address are most likely true, it is very sad to see that this toxic online culture resulted in the death of a person who was crucified before he was plead guilty by any court.
The very first reply to this update was accusing her and Alec of being part of Zoe's "cult", you can't win with these people.
Every time someone calls this a "progressive" forum, a "bastion", I will point them to how flippantly and recklessly mental illness is discussed.
As you stated:
What short-term response do you want?
Secondly, do you believe that Alec could have learned to not be abusive?
Im
I'm not defending them, I literally put that person on ignore because I found that post to be gross. But I think you are better than stooping to their level.
He didn't deserve death.
He did deserve being cut off from positions of power and employment opportunity in the industry he was an abuser.
Literally no one in those posts was wishing for death as the outcome.
I never said that his death changes anything about what he did. What he did was terrible but by using words such as "monster" we're denying the simple fact that most people are, in theory, capable of doing terrible things and that it is, in fact, quite human to do terrible things. If you're calling others monsters, you're basically robbing yourself of the chance to self-reflect on the human condition and the bad impulses we all carry within us. You're also pre-destined to end up as one of those people on the news who say "oh, I never saw it coming, they always seemed so nice". And last but not least, you're robbing offenders of the chance to see the errors of their ways and change for the better. If they're flawed humans who did terrible things, maybe they can change. If they're monsters, there's little hope for them. This kind of attitude simply isn't helpful.
Right? I recall how back when the Etika thing happened, he published that horrible, horrible video of him saying his last goodbye, and tons of people were assuming this was just another stunt, and even some were asking for a boycott and to "stop giving people like him a platform". It's not even a matter of having contact with people with mental illnesses anymore, it's a matter of human decency and purely understanding how people work. This is terrible news and anyone who's happy about his death is as terrible as the people they hate on a daily basis.
Yeah, I've noticed that. Gladly I cut ties with all social media years ago (the only thing I have right now is ResetEra, actually) because of how disgusting some people can be. I don't even need to hear the other side of the story, I don't really have a reason to believe that Quinn is lying at all, but man, the amount of insults and death threats Holowka must've gotten in these last few days must have been terrifying. Everyone should be properly punished for what they've done wrong, but cancel culture is a cancer that has to be taken care of.
1) I think she couldn't have done any more or anything differently.
2) I do. But he wouldn't learn with silence.
When I see someone celebrating the suicide of someone who has mental issues, I react I guess.
My thoughts go to Zoe and all his other victims, who will have even more difficulty to go on with their lives now.
I am also very tired with another story of an abuser whose crimes are minimized because "he was abused as well" and "he was depressed".
Many, many people have been abused, suffer from depression, or both, and do not become abusers themselves. Abuse or depression do not minimize or absolve anyone for any crime, and it doesn't make it easier for his victims to recover from what he did to them.
I am also very tired with another story of an abuser whose crimes are minimized because "he was abused as well" and "he was depressed".
Many, many people have been abused, suffer from depression, or both, and do not become abusers themselves. Abuse or depression do not minimize or absolve anyone for any crime, and it doesn't make it easier for his victims to recover from what he did to them.
Yeah I think if what his sister said is true, I doubt he did.
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