(Al-Jazeera) Ukraine: Allegedly neo-Nazi armed groups fighting Russia-backed separatists

[Anton Sugar]

The Ukrainian government is often accused of turning a blind eye to what are described as neo-Nazi paramilitary groups fighting Russia-backed separatists.
Many say such groups have been an effective fighting force in the almost eight-year conflict in eastern Ukraine.
But as Al Jazeera's Charles Stratford reports from Kharkiv, while their origins stretch right across Eastern Europe including Russia, they remain politically weak so far.

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Threads over Ukraine around here have been escalating to 100 pretty fast but I feel this is an elephant in the room that has mostly been brushed off or even justified as "Russia is more fascist, so having a few fascists in the Ukrainian army isn't so bad".

More broadly, I'm aware that if the US provides aid to Ukraine, it's under the provision of "none of this goes to the Azov Battalion" but realistically, how is that enforced? Is there accountability here? We have historical examples (most recently in Afghanistan/Iraq) of US aid going to insurgents that eventually come back to haunt us or, worse, we have no idea where the money goes/it disappears.

One of the more insidious aspects of this is the deliberate way our media ignores the neo-Nazi associations of these groups in favor of "civilian/volunteer Ukrainian resistance fighting for their country" headlines. If our media covered Trump rallies or neo-Nazi marches but deliberately left out all the white supremacist iconography and behavior, we'd rightly be pissed off.

mod edit: RT is the state media machine for the Russian government with a history of pushing misinformation on the Russian state to an English audience and as such is not a valid source when it comes to their domestic reporting




More:

https://twitter.com/MarkAmesExiled/status/1493016664354533376

 

[BossAttack]

When you're entire country is under threat of invasion that also means the shitty parts of your society face the same threat and have to defend themselves. Why would Western media focus on a small segment of the Ukrainian defense efforts instead, you know, the whole rest of the country trying not to be killed by an invading Russian force?

 

[Dyle]

It's pretty much completely irrelevant to the larger story about the entire country.

 

[EntelechyFuff]

To be completely frank, given the current context of what is going on with Ukraine right this moment, this feels like manufacturing consent for Russia. EDIT: Not talking about you OP, I'm referring to the articles.

I don't deny that this neo-nazi group or far right assholes exist and are up to trouble in Ukraine--or anywhere for that matter--but the timing to highlight this when the country is under existential threat seems...well...

 

[kmfdmpig]

What's the point of focusing on it? Does that somehow make Russia's invasion OK? If so, then almost every nation on earth would be at risk as they all have some absolute trash people with backwards views.
Also, I don't think that the official Russian views on homosexuality are all that different from the views of the sniper in question.

 

[Rogote]

To be completely frank, given the current context of what is going on with Ukraine right this moment, this feels like manufacturing consent for Russia. EDIT: Not talking about you OP, I'm referring to the articles.

I don't deny that this neo-nazi group or far right assholes exist and are up to trouble in Ukraine--or anywhere for that matter--but the timing to highlight this when the country is under existential threat seems...well...

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It's basically what I expect russia to do: employ people to garner sympathy for the Russian invasion on the internet with this stuff.

 

[iksenpets]

When you're entire country is under threat of invasion that also means the shitty parts of your society face the same threat and have to defend themselves. Why would Western media focus on a small segment of the Ukrainian defense efforts instead, you know, the whole rest of the country trying not to be killed by an invading Russian force?

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Also, any organization with more than a thousand people is going to have some fascists in it, especially one promising guns and opportunities to do violence. This is the case with every army and police force in the world. And since Ukraine is preparing for active invasion and thus a lot of their defensive force is in self-organized militias, that means the right wing chuds can organize into their own little battalion, but again, that would be the case with any country. If the US were invaded, the weird white nationalist militias would be part of the defense, ugly as it would be.

And yeah, like in the importance scale of things, a country being invaded is a few orders of magnitude more important than invaded country having one bad militia battalion.

At some point your basically arguing against democracy because some of the people showing up to defend democracy want to vote for bad guys.

 

[krazen]

I mean, you were always going to get nationalistic 'red dawn' types to hitch their wagon onto the conflict because it feeds the 'us vs them' narrative. I bet you there's some shit out there that has Russia not being pureblood 'white' either.

Since Russia's soft power is a big part of the equation under the guise of helping 'Russian citizens' on a micro level I expect retaliations back and forth based on Russian/Ukrainian nationalism no matter how this current conflict ends up being settled. One you open that faucet you can't close it.

 

[NCR Ranger]

Shit burgers should be able to resist foreign invasion like anybody else. The goal of the west should be to help minimize any influence gains they might get from it. If that report is correct they don't really have much influence right now it sounds like, so hopefully it stays that way.

 

[Mentalist]

Ukrainian nationalists have been marginalized :in the last parliamentary election their bloc didn't get even 1‰ of the popular vote.

Ex-President Poroshenko has largely monopolized the "patriotic opposition" niche a shitty development, because he is an oligarch and had a fuckton of shady dealings with Russia during the war, but them's the breaks.

The Red and Black flags have become socially acceptable ever since 2013- largely because they send Russians into an apoplexic fit, and anything that's bad for Russia is good.

Same thing with the radicals: while the war is on (and it HAS been on for the past 8 years), the ones who fanatically hate Russia are best-placed on the front lines.

There is minimal risk of them taking over/attempting a coup-especially with such an establishment figure as Poroshenko denying them media presence and absolutely eating into their voter base;

Ukraine has introduced laws condemning both Nazism and Communism as totalitarian criminal regimes. But clearly those who are currently fighting are getting a pass, because at the end of the day, they'll be the first ones the Russians will kill.

 

[Koukalaka]

Ukrainian nationalists have been marginalized :in the last parliamentary election their bloc didn't get even 1‰ of the popular vote.

Ex-President Poroshenko has largely monopolized the "patriotic opposition" niche a shitty development, because he is an oligarch and had a fuckton of shady dealings with Russia during the war, but them's the breaks.

The Red and Black flags have become socially acceptable ever since 2013- largely because they send Russians into an apoplexic fit, and anything that's bad for Russia is good.

Same thing with the radicals: while the war is on (and it HAS been on for the past 8 years), the ones who fanatically hate Russia are best-placed on the front lines.

There is minimal risk of them taking over/attempting a coup-especially with such an establishment figure as Poroshenko denying them media presence and absolutely eating into their voter base;

Ukraine has introduced laws condemning both Nazism and Communism as totalitarian criminal regimes. But clearly those who are currently fighting are getting a pass, because at the end of the day, they'll be the first ones the Russians will kill.

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Yeah, the Russians don't really have a leg to stand on when Zhirinovksy and other scum are actively allowed to have a role in Russian politics, even if it largely window dressing.

 

[BringBackSonics]

When you're entire country is under threat of invasion that also means the shitty parts of your society face the same threat and have to defend themselves. Why would Western media focus on a small segment of the Ukrainian defense efforts instead, you know, the whole rest of the country trying not to be killed by an invading Russian force?

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one and fucking done.

 

[lorddarkflare]

Who cares?

Like, I get these people are trash, and they should not be gaining power from this, but the actual sovereignty of Ukraine is at stake against a hostile foreign invasion.

For now, this level of nuance is unwelcome because it has zero value.

 

[Strikerrr]

It's basically what I expect russia to do: employ people to garner sympathy for the Russian invasion on the internet with this stuff.

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It's ironic when Russia may be planning on sending their own neo nazi-run mercenary group to Ukraine

Neo-Nazi Russian Attack Unit Hints It’s Going Back Into Ukraine Undercover

One of the most notorious battalions of the secretive and deadly Wagner Group appeared to suggest it was prepping to return to Ukraine, raising the prospect of a Russian assault.

www.thedailybeast.com

Notorious Russian Mercenaries Pull Out of Africa for Ukraine

Unprecedented numbers of the Wagner Group, which some have called Putin’s “private army,” have departed in recent days, sources tell The Daily Beast.

www.thedailybeast.com

 

[GrantDaNasty]

People really want to see Ukrainians suffer based on this "well they got Neo-Nazis among their ranks" argument. Let's forget that most Ukrainians don't have these beliefs, let's forget that Russia STILL has no reason to be an aggressor, nor did they when taking the Crimea and attempting to take parts of Donbass now.

This is a horrible justification for Ukraine to be invaded militaristically, if anyone believes Russia is truly only doing this to "fight fascism", then you have already fallen into Putin's propaganda.

Shit, by that logic let's have Russia invade the U.S because the KKK exists.

 

[NexusCell]

Not gonna lie, under the eminent threat of foreign invasion, the last thing on my mind would be "are the people fighting the invaders nazis?"

 

[BringBackSonics]

Not gonna lie, under the eminent threat of foreign invasion, the last thing on my mind would be "are the people fighting the invaders nazis?"

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definitely had some concern trolling in the larger Ukraine/Russia thread about the 'Nazis' a couple of weeks back

 

[Thordinson]

People really want to see Ukrainians suffer based on this "well they got Neo-Nazis among their ranks" argument. Let's forget that most Ukrainians don't have these beliefs, let's forget that Russia STILL has no reason to be an aggressor, nor did they when taking the Crimea and attempting to take parts of Donbass now.

This is a horrible justification for Ukraine to be invaded militaristically, if anyone believes Russia is truly only doing this to "fight fascism", then you have already fallen into Putin's propaganda.

Shit, by that logic let's have Russia invade the U.S because the KKK exists.

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I don't see anyone saying Russia should invade because some Neo-Nazi groups in Ukraine are being armed. No one thinks Russia is, likely, going to invade to fight fascism. No one has a made that argument.

Fuck the Russian government.

 

[kmfdmpig]

It's ironic when Russia may be planning on sending their own neo nazi-run mercenary group to Ukraine

Neo-Nazi Russian Attack Unit Hints It’s Going Back Into Ukraine Undercover

One of the most notorious battalions of the secretive and deadly Wagner Group appeared to suggest it was prepping to return to Ukraine, raising the prospect of a Russian assault.

www.thedailybeast.com

Notorious Russian Mercenaries Pull Out of Africa for Ukraine

Unprecedented numbers of the Wagner Group, which some have called Putin’s “private army,” have departed in recent days, sources tell The Daily Beast.

www.thedailybeast.com

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If you were casting a nazi for a movie or TV show then that's exactly the look you'd go for as well. It's one thing to say "wow, a lot of Ukrainians have beliefs that are not OK" but to point that out now when the same could be said of Russia, which is on the verge of invading, seems odd and not really productive. When Russia attacks it's certainly not going to be due to opposing nazis or fighting for gay rights or equality.

 

[higemaru]

why are all the IP addresses in this thread coming from McLean, VA?

 

[excelsiorlef]

why are all the IP addresses in this thread coming from McLean, VA?

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Wait is your joke that anyone who isn't buying the OP's magic trick secretly CIA?

 

[Mauricio_Magus]

this is some top tier whataboutism

 

[B-Dubs]

How about we not when the country is literally about to be invaded