Airlines beginning to ground Boeing 737-Max following Ethiopian Airline crash [UP: Trump orders grounding of fleet in the US]

KHarvey16 · Mar 12, 2019

Dingens said:
To my understanding, Boeing has already admited that there's some sort of software fault... even before the black box was found. Which suggests they already knew something was wrong with this type of plane, yet decided to save a few pennies for their precious shareholders.

The software tweaks were discussed in the emergency AD issued after the Lion Air crash. They are small adjustments. The mandatory implementation date was April and no grounding was issued before implementation so it was never considered a flight safety issue due to the existing procedures in place.

Menx64 · Mar 12, 2019

KHarvey16 said:
Changing the cog feeds bad data? What are you talking about? That isn't an issue at any point in this discussion. You have no idea what's going on. The Lion Air flight had maintenance issues with a sensor that caused bad data. The problem was reported by the previous crew (who dealt with the problem just fine because they knew what they were doing) and maintenance didn't fix it. We have no idea if this flight had the same issue but everyone getting scared is basing their entire position on it being identical. I'm not the one assuming what the cause is here.

Please refer to Air Canada's statement. Are they lying?

They just grounded all thier 737 max 8...

StarCreator · Mar 12, 2019

djplaeskool said:
That seems odd to me since these planes make up such a small percentage of their fleets...

It's a hypothetical situation, so yes, it doesn't fully line up with reality by nature. You're completely overlooking the point being made.

KHarvey16 · Mar 12, 2019

Menx64 said:
They just grounded all thier 737 max 8...

Not unless it happened in the last 5 minutes. They cancelled the flights to Europe since that airspace is closed now to the 737 max.

djplaeskool · Mar 12, 2019

StarCreator said:
It's a hypothetical situation, so yes, it doesn't fully line up with reality by nature. You're completely overlooking the point being made.

Oh, I'm agreeing that the planes should be grounded. The 737 Max8 is a single digit percentage of the respective carrier's fleet, so they really should seriously consider it.
Sorry if my statement wasn't clear.

SantaC · Mar 12, 2019

massivekettle said:
You could flip this argument around. Is it possible that in each instance the airline may be at fault? We don't know until the issue is fully bottomed out.

Nah can never be the fault with an american product. You guys are the best at everything.

OtherWorldly · Mar 12, 2019

Things not looking so hot for Boeing

Ethiopian Airlines CEO tells CNN: Pilot had 'flight control problems'
https://www.cnn.com/2019/03/12/business/ethiopian-airlines-ceo-richard-quest/index.html

A recorded conversation with air traffic control detailed the final moments of the flight, CEO Tewolde GebreMariam told CNN's Richard Quest on Tuesday.

"He was having difficulties with the flight control of the airplane, so he asked to return back to base," GebreMariam said. He added that the pilot was granted permission to return to ground. That happened at the same time the flight disappeared from radar.

Shiny Pokemon Hunter · Mar 12, 2019

julian said:
This is frighteningly stupid. They're admitting to not being done with the investigation but saying they'll keep using the planes in question until it's done.

Maybe they use the 3 strike system

PositivePolitique · Mar 12, 2019

Wow this is such a shocking embarrassment for Boeing. The plane is grounded or banned from most major airspaces. This has done serious damage to this planes' reputation.

I wonder will the plane survive all of this? Or will some airlines cancel their orders.

nature boy · Mar 12, 2019

FliX · Mar 12, 2019

nature boy said:

Totally normal, nothing to see here

ItIsOkBro · Mar 12, 2019

nature boy said:

Ahh yes. This has been about money and not safety every step of the way.

Astronut325 · Mar 12, 2019

nature boy said:

Capitalism... F### Yeah!

StarCreator · Mar 12, 2019

Imagine if all that bribe money went toward actually making sure their planes don't fall from the sky.

RoKKeR · Mar 12, 2019

nature boy said:

What a vile string of things to read knowing the context.

KingSnake · Mar 12, 2019

nature boy said:

That American professionalism. Always thinking about the goodwill of people.

cameron · Mar 12, 2019

David Shepardson @davidshepardson

NEWS: FAA says it will not ground 737 MAX based on current data and ongoing "urgent review"

6:13 PM - Mar 12, 2019

The FAA @FAANews

UPDATED #FAA Statement regarding @Boeing 737 MAX.

6:12 PM - Mar 12, 2019 · Washington, DC

Pwnz · Mar 12, 2019

Yet another reason to go with Airbus. Nearly all domestic flights in the US have the shittiest amenities on Boeing planes whereas nearly every Airbus is smooth and has individual tablets per seat with TV and movies complimentary.

LunaSerena · Mar 12, 2019

I'm glad Latam flies mainly Airbus planes and older Boeing models.
Considering that the common factor in both accidents are the planes,I think Europe's response here is in the right - let Boeing have the burden in denostrating the plane is safe. Until them, better to keep them grounded.

gcubed · Mar 12, 2019

Pwnz said:
Yet another reason to go with Airbus. Nearly all domestic flights in the US have the shittiest amenities on Boeing planes whereas nearly every Airbus is smooth and has individual tablets per seat with TV and movies complimentary.

i fly airbuses multiple times a month, all BYOD. Same on Boeing as well. The Max 8 is just a shit plane though as a passenger at least in the configuration American buys them in.

Irnbru · Mar 12, 2019

Pwnz said:
Yet another reason to go with Airbus. Nearly all domestic flights in the US have the shittiest amenities on Boeing planes whereas nearly every Airbus is smooth and has individual tablets per seat with TV and movies complimentary.

That's conpletely on the company purchasing the plane. Boeing makes the body and the company chooses the interior and amenities on the plane.

Megasoum · Mar 12, 2019

What annoys me the most is that if the plane in question was an Airbus instead of a Boeing the FAA and Trump would both be screaming from the rooftops to ground them all.

Just like what happened with the Concorde

Astronut325 · Mar 12, 2019

cameron said:
David Shepardson @davidshepardson

NEWS: FAA says it will not ground 737 MAX based on current data and ongoing "urgent review"

6:13 PM - Mar 12, 2019

The FAA @FAANews

UPDATED #FAA Statement regarding @Boeing 737 MAX.

6:12 PM - Mar 12, 2019 · Washington, DC

If a democrat was president the entirety of the GOP would be out for blood.

Edit:
This too:

Megasoum said:
What annoys me the most is that if the plane in question was an Airbus instead of a Boeing the FAA and Trump would both be screaming from the rooftops to ground them all.

Just like what happened with the Concorde

SantaC · Mar 12, 2019

Anyone else dont like flying? I hate not having any control in terms of an incident.

Someone said earlier that plane crashes often arent fatal but thats gotta be wrong information.

Paperboywriter · Mar 12, 2019

so this is purely political now? seems about right.

thefit · Mar 12, 2019

cameron said:
David Shepardson @davidshepardson

NEWS: FAA says it will not ground 737 MAX based on current data and ongoing "urgent review"

6:13 PM - Mar 12, 2019

The FAA @FAANews

UPDATED #FAA Statement regarding @Boeing 737 MAX.

6:12 PM - Mar 12, 2019 · Washington, DC

Well duh, Trump just hired ex Boeing executive to be his defense secretary. He's there to make sure bombs and planes keep getting built on tax payer money not grounded. Corruption like never before.

https://www-m.cnn.com/2017/03/16/po...ing-ties/index.html?r=https://www.google.com/

President Donald Trump has nominated top Boeing executive Patrick Shanahan to fill the second-highest civilian post at the Pentagon, the White House announced

Mcfrank · Mar 12, 2019

SantaC said:
Anyone else dont like flying? I hate not having any control in terms of an incident.

Someone said earlier that plane crashes often arent fatal but thats gotta be wrong information.

Flying is way way way way way way way way way safer than driving.

'3y Kingdom · Mar 12, 2019

SantaC said:
Anyone else dont like flying? I hate not having any control in terms of an incident.

Someone said earlier that plane crashes often arent fatal but thats gotta be wrong information.

I would guess that it's true. Not every crash is an outright catastrophe; it's just that the really bad ones dominate the news.

Tokyo_Funk · Mar 12, 2019

It only took 1 crash : Air France Flight 4590 for Concorde to lose customers and business. 2 Max 8 problems and a 737 engine catching on fire in 3 months is not a good sign for Boeing

jstevenson · Mar 12, 2019

PositivePolitique said:
Wow this is such a shocking embarrassment for Boeing. The plane is grounded or banned from most major airspaces. This has done serious damage to this planes' reputation.

I wonder will the plane survive all of this? Or will some airlines cancel their orders.

This isn't even remotely new, and is yet to be proved as an issue. See the DC-10 for something similar that happened in the past that actually DID have a major design issue.. DC-10s still fly.

Pwnz said:
Yet another reason to go with Airbus. Nearly all domestic flights in the US have the shittiest amenities on Boeing planes whereas nearly every Airbus is smooth and has individual tablets per seat with TV and movies complimentary.

This is more on crappy domestic carriers which decide the interior specs of their aircraft. My by far preferred long-haul aircraft these days is a Boeing 787. (the A350 is nice too).

LunaSerena said:
I'm glad Latam flies mainly Airbus planes and older Boeing models.
Considering that the common factor in both accidents are the planes,I think Europe's response here is in the right - let Boeing have the burden in denostrating the plane is safe. Until them, better to keep them grounded.

The only definite similarities are that it was the same aircraft and both were on take-off.

Until we have more info, that's a big conclusion to jump to.

Chunky Alien · Mar 12, 2019

What a pathetic display from the FAA and Trump administration. I should be shocked, but clearly money over safety is what is going on here

'3y Kingdom · Mar 12, 2019

Tokyo_Funk said:
It only took 1 crash : Air France Flight 4590 for Concorde to lose customers and business. 2 Max 8 problems and a 737 engine catching on fire in 3 months is not a good sign for Boeing

Concorde had lots of issues before the crash, though. The market for supersonic flights wasn't that hot, the routes the plane could take were limited, the fuel costs were rather high, etc. When Concorde failed, no one else was rushing to fill the minuscule void they left behind.

Boeing is one half of the duopoly that dominates commercial aviation.

Tokyo_Funk · Mar 12, 2019

jstevenson said:
This is more on crappy domestic carriers which decide the interior specs of their aircraft. My by far preferred long-haul aircraft thes(the A350 is nice too).

I agree with the A350. I had a 12 hour flight from Melbourne to Tokyo on the 350 and it was the nicest plane ride I have ever taken. From take off to landing it was comfortable.

Then again I fly around in old Cessnas and SuperStols so anything is better than that

GoldenEye 007 · Mar 12, 2019

'3y Kingdom said:
Concorde had lots of issues before the crash, though. The market for supersonic flights wasn't that hot, the routes the plane could take were limited, the fuel costs were rather high, etc. When Concorde failed, no one else was rushing to fill the minuscule void they left behind.

Boeing is one half of the duopoly that dominates commercial aviation.

Boeing might be as a company. But this plane is a small current fraction of commercial aircraft. Only 350 operating.

Slappy White · Mar 12, 2019

Chunky Alien said:
What a pathetic display from the FAA and Trump administration. I should be shocked, but clearly money over safety is what is going on here

Seriously disgusting how it is. Blood is on their hands if something else happens even though they don't care.

Deleted member 25712 · Mar 12, 2019

Pwnz said:
Yet another reason to go with Airbus. Nearly all domestic flights in the US have the shittiest amenities on Boeing planes whereas nearly every Airbus is smooth and has individual tablets per seat with TV and movies complimentary.

This is bullshit but ok.

Tokyo_Funk · Mar 12, 2019

'3y Kingdom said:
Concorde had lots of issues before the crash, though. The market for supersonic flights wasn't that hot, the routes the plane could take were limited, the fuel costs were rather high, etc. When Concorde failed, no one else was rushing to fill the minuscule void they left behind.

Boeing is one half of the duopoly that dominates commercial aviation.

I should have been more specific, the crash is what sealed their fate. It was something not needed on top of all their other problems including dwindling numbers and faults.

KHarvey16 · Mar 12, 2019

Slappy White said:
Seriously disgusting how it is. Blood is on their hands if something else happens even though they don't care.

Should all similar planes be grounded every time one crashes?

Slappy White · Mar 12, 2019

KHarvey16 said:
Should all similar planes be grounded every time one crashes?

Of course not.

KHarvey16 · Mar 12, 2019

Slappy White said:
Of course not.

So why should all 737-8's and 9's be grounded before any info from the investigation is known?

Slappy White · Mar 12, 2019

KHarvey16 said:
So why should all 737-8's and 9's be grounded before any info from the investigation is known?

That wasn't my point.

KHarvey16 · Mar 12, 2019

Slappy White said:
That wasn't my point.

Then I'm confused. What should the FAA do that they aren't?

Schreckweg 5000 · Mar 12, 2019

Mcfrank said:
Flying is way way way way way way way way way safer than driving.

A software error in your Toyota normally doesn't kill 189 people. These comparisons are pointless.

Moist_Owlet · Mar 12, 2019

KHarvey16 said:
So why should all 737-8's and 9's be grounded before any info from the investigation is known?

Not sure but 2 crashes of the same model plane only months apart doesn't seem suspicious to you?

Flight attendants are worried these planes aren't safe
https://www.npr.org/templates/transcript/transcript.php?storyId=702476307

Menx64 · Mar 12, 2019

KHarvey16 said:
So why should all 737-8's and 9's be grounded before any info from the investigation is known?

PR? People see two planes of the same model, and new planes, felt just recently and passengers dont feel safe anymore.Better safe than sorry.

OtherWorldly · Mar 12, 2019

Uh oh

Evolution of Metal · Mar 12, 2019

KHarvey16 said:
Then I'm confused. What should the FAA do that they aren't?

If you believe something is unsafe, you investigate it. Meanwhile, you refrain from using the device because it MIGHT be unsafe. When the investigation is over, you reveal your conclusions and declare the item being safe or unsafe. Does this sound like a logical procedure?

OtherWorldly · Mar 12, 2019

Holy crap

gamma · Mar 12, 2019

OtherWorldly said:
Holy crap

Do you not read your own thread?

KHarvey16 · Mar 12, 2019

Moist_Owlet said:
Not sure but 2 crashes of the same model plane only months apart doesn't seem suspicious to you?

Flight attendants are worried these planes aren't safe
https://www.npr.org/templates/transcript/transcript.php?storyId=702476307

Two crashes: one we have a decent idea about and one we are waiting to investigate and understand. The earlier one is not believed to be caused by any kind of technical fault with the airplane and the FAA issued an emergency AD to help clarify with additional notes in the manuals. The current procedures in place fully deal with the issue that authorities believe lead to the Lion Air crash.

This accident is either completely new and unrelated, in which case we need to wait for details. Or it's the same as the last one, in which case there aren't any technical faults that are avoided by grounding aircraft.

Menx64 said:
PR? People see two planes of the same model, and new planes, felt just recently and passengers dont feel safe anymore.Better safe than sorry.

The actions by airlines are absolutely PR. Which is certainly their prerogative since they're running a business and it makes perfect sense. But PR shouldn't drive regulatory authorities.

Evolution of Metal said:
If you believe something is unsafe, you investigate it. Meanwhile, you refrain from using the device because it MIGHT be unsafe. When the investigation is over, you reveal your conclusions and declare the item being safe or unsafe. Does this sound like a logical procedure?

That would mean grounding every plane of a particular type if one of them crashes. Investigations don't work that way and really can't.

Airlines beginning to ground Boeing 737-Max following Ethiopian Airline crash [UP: Trump orders grounding of fleet in the US]

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