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Airline passenger films man punching her economy seat after she reclines
- Thread starter Dalek
- Start date
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You said that AFTER you repeatedly supported his actions, it's all up there in plain text so who are you performing for now?
No, it's pretty different. I don't condone violent protest in the vast majority of situations but I can still emphasize and agree with the driving message.
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we don't know if he asked her. I've politely asked the person in front of me crushing my knees if they could not-and they just ignored me and didn't move.
No it's only "pretty different" if you want to try to spin it with semantics.
Empathizing with someone who takes physical action like this is a shitty thing and is absolutely supporting his actions. You saying "I don't condone it" after doesn't change this.
It's rude, but very, very, mildly rude. Like on par with forgetting to hold the door for someone at most.
Economy seats only go back by a few cm anyway, I've never seen it be any amount that could make a difference to the person's comfort or space.
But if it does, they just need to recline too, and suddenly everything is identical to before.
Obviously if someone is struggling for space more than usual due to being overweight/disabled/injured or any other reason then they should ask and if you're a decent person you'd put it back up. But if someone is getting irate and aggressive about it like this guy they can eat shit, nobody owes them to do that.
Also, while the "I paid for my ticket I can do this" argument obviously has holes and you should always be thoughtful of others, it's true in the sense that the reclining is very specifically designed to not impact others which is why you barely fucking move when you do it. If enough people were annoyed by it, you wouldn't be able to do it at all. But it's remained a mainstay of planes because, it's just not a big deal.
Economy seats only go back by a few cm anyway, I've never seen it be any amount that could make a difference to the person's comfort or space.
But if it does, they just need to recline too, and suddenly everything is identical to before.
Obviously if someone is struggling for space more than usual due to being overweight/disabled/injured or any other reason then they should ask and if you're a decent person you'd put it back up. But if someone is getting irate and aggressive about it like this guy they can eat shit, nobody owes them to do that.
Also, while the "I paid for my ticket I can do this" argument obviously has holes and you should always be thoughtful of others, it's true in the sense that the reclining is very specifically designed to not impact others which is why you barely fucking move when you do it. If enough people were annoyed by it, you wouldn't be able to do it at all. But it's remained a mainstay of planes because, it's just not a big deal.
The fact that this is a debate makes it pretty easy to King Solomon this situation: They're both wrong. The lady who reclined is the instigator, though, and her stubbornness to straighten her seat -- knowing full-well it was causing another person misery -- exasperated the issue.
might as well claim that EVERYONE who said both sides was "supporting his behavior" while you're at it.
Again, I see a lot of people with absolutist takes. This is a perfect place for me to interject with the argument for civil negotiation tempered by empathy given the context of a situation.
This could have better been sorted out if the person reclining in front of a tall person acknowledged the discomfort of the tall person being impinged upon. They could have used empathy to say "Oh, I'm sorry. I didn't realize I'd be crushing you." and then perhaps switch seat with someone they were with or surrounding them so they could recline while being seated in front of a shorter person (if they absolutely needed to recline). At the same time, the dude could have called the attendant if the person in front of him refused to stop reclining and asked to be sat somewhere else if possible. Both people in this scenario could have done more reasonable things to alleviate the situation.
Last but not least: fuck the airlines for being blood-thirsty leeches to the point of sacrificing people's safety and bare-minimum comfort just to eek out another few bucks.
This could have better been sorted out if the person reclining in front of a tall person acknowledged the discomfort of the tall person being impinged upon. They could have used empathy to say "Oh, I'm sorry. I didn't realize I'd be crushing you." and then perhaps switch seat with someone they were with or surrounding them so they could recline while being seated in front of a shorter person (if they absolutely needed to recline). At the same time, the dude could have called the attendant if the person in front of him refused to stop reclining and asked to be sat somewhere else if possible. Both people in this scenario could have done more reasonable things to alleviate the situation.
Last but not least: fuck the airlines for being blood-thirsty leeches to the point of sacrificing people's safety and bare-minimum comfort just to eek out another few bucks.
Doesn't take much for the facade to drop these days but didn't think reclining seats would be the "b.. but both sides!" point when it came to being physically aggressive toward women.
"They're both wrong but let me just dump on her"
I have no idea what you're trying to do when your posts supporting his actions are there for everyone to see.
Right.
What misery was she causing? Dude was clearly not inconvenienced as he still had plenty of space to line up his punches.
I'd have asked her if she could just not. If she proceeded to still do it then they are a real asshole. Wouldn't punch or shake their seat though still.
They are, that's why the physical aggression being an escalation matters. If someone does something rude to you, you don't get to do something back to them without being deemed immature, and you don't get to escalate a situation to physical violence without being deemed an unstable man baby fuck. If you're implying that she deserved it you're supporting his behavior.
I didn't say he was "in the right." I said I understand the reaction. I've wanted to retaliate against people reclining countless times. Like I said in my post though, I would never have the audacity to actually do it though.
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Can we at least drop the facade that asking the recliner is some perfect solution that no one is trying?
I'm tall enough where the person in front of me on a place absolutely can't actually recline. Airlines need to remove reclining as a feature in peasant class or they need to reduce the number of seats.
Saying you understand the reaction is lending it support.
There is NOTHING understandable about becoming physical here.
Escalation just makes the escalator culpable too. It doesn't absolve the original offender.
This. Also blame the airlines for constantly taking away what little space passengers already have by shoving in seats so tightly packed.
It only took you 11 pages to come to this conclusion that most of us accepted from the start?
This made up etiquette you guys have for reclining is something else. You can only recline for overnight flights and you have to ask the person behind you if it's okay first? I'm honestly wondering if some of you have ever been on a plane, because literally no one does this.
nah, all i see is you saying that me stating X means i really mean Z and not X.
Reclining is nowhere near the level of physical harassment, which this absolutely is.
Also, imagine being a woman and man becoming physical behind her and the staff just ignoring it, you think she's going to feel safe after that?
I'm in the camp of I only recline if the seat in front of me declines, but not because I'm trying to pass it along. I have my Macbook out playing OpenEmu stuff. If the person in front reclines and I don't recline, then I can't open the Macbook far enough to see the screen. The angle doesn't match up on the tray to the seat back.
Maybe airlines should just remove seats that recline from economy. To be honest, surprised it hasn't happened already.
Maybe airlines should just remove seats that recline from economy. To be honest, surprised it hasn't happened already.
I wonder if this guy would have been brave enough to do this if the person sitting in front of him wasn't a women?
The seat pitch is uncomfortable for some people.
What time of day is it?
Where did they just come from?
How long have they been on other planes?
Has the person in front of them done the same?
Do they need space to type on a laptop?
Are they trying to fit a meal on an absurdly short tray?
Do they have a chronic back issue (there's something like a 10% chance of that in general)
I don't recline my seat because I'm aware that people can overreact, or if I know they can't recline, or any number of personal reasons, but the duration of the flight doesn't really mean anything in isolation. If I did need to recline for some reason, I'd politely ask, or warn them of my intention unless it's a small child or a sleeping passenger. Funny thing is that recline is so minimal these days that on several occasions I've been midly scolded on descent for not returning it to full upright, having never noticed it was reclined when I first sat down, either by feeling or visual cues.
I see lots of folks talking about knees being hit - you'd have to be really tall, or have weirdly (vertically when seated) high knees for the pitch angle to do that. It's tilting on an axis, not sliding back on a rail, so at regular knee height, that pitch barely enters the prior space.
Also, in the OP, punching a seat is insane. Did he try asking her politely first? Her tweet is kinda dismissive and mean sounding, so it's hard to tell what prior etiquette did or didn't occur.
"I'm sorry, I'm very tall and when you recline, it presses against my knees"
alternatively:
"Excuse me, do you mind if I recline my seat?"
or CRAZYTOWN:
"Why don't we just make our planes comfortable instead of squeezing money and rage from our customers. We're not Comcast!"
LOL I identify with this post. I haven't been comfortable on a flight in my entire adult life. Above a certain height, there's just no relief to be had- and I certainly can't find a position in which sleep is possible. It's just a matter of finding ways to distract myself until the plane lands.
I also don't recline, since the extra two inches is meaningless to my femurs.
And yet, here you are, continually supporting those who say they understand the fact he became physically and harassed a woman.
No, it really is not. You're making a leap that is not rational at all so for your own sake, you should correct this way of thinking. Understanding an action does not mean supporting it. No one in their right mind would equate the two things.
I can understand why someone say cuts in line or why they steal from a store or any other number of things. That doesn't mean I support it.
We know and you're right. Are you finally ready to move past it and discuss the larger issue instead?
Yes, it absolutely is.
There is NOTHING understandable about physical harassment.
As long as you understand the above, the thing you were supporting just now? Sure.
It is very frustrating that so many people go through life without considering the impact their actions might have on those around them. Absolute minimum is look behind you and determine if that person could do with the leg room more than you could do with whatever the fuck it is that people recline their seats for.
I completely empathise with an emotional reaction in this scenario, but it's still not appropriate to punch the seat. Call an attendant and request to be moved - they should either agree, or ask the person in front to [opposite of recline] their seat.
Being afforded the right to do a thing does not mean it is the right thing to do.
I completely empathise with an emotional reaction in this scenario, but it's still not appropriate to punch the seat. Call an attendant and request to be moved - they should either agree, or ask the person in front to [opposite of recline] their seat.
Being afforded the right to do a thing does not mean it is the right thing to do.
Has there been a curb your enthusiasm bit about airplane reclining yet? Larry can show us the way.
That "larger" issue is worth an eye roll at best. If there's a genuine medical concern then you should make appropriate arrangements by booking a better seat or contacting the airline in advance.
Man physically harasses woman.
faceless asks "is it really HIS behavior that's the main issue though? "
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