• Ever wanted an RSS feed of all your favorite gaming news sites? Go check out our new Gaming Headlines feed! Read more about it here.
  • We have made minor adjustments to how the search bar works on ResetEra. You can read about the changes here.

sredgrin

Attempted to circumvent ban with alt account
Banned
Oct 27, 2017
12,276
I think people overstate how story light the game was. Then again I don't think lore heavy = good lore like some do as well. Destiny can fill a few 400 pages books too, it doesn't mean the story was presented well in the games.

That being said, I do not trust a musou to really offer anything meaty.
 

VegiHam

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,591
I wish more of that lore was in the game, rather than in a separate book. Everybody seems to have read making a champion so consider the lore from it as part of the world; but I haven't read it yet so to me it sounds like people are always referencing chunks of the story that just weren't in the game I played.
 

RagnarokX

Member
Oct 26, 2017
15,783
It's always frustrated me that buried under complaints about how nothing happens in BotW and the story is boring and minimal, the amount of lore and backstory there was enough to fill a 400 page lorebook and get people excited for the story of a musou prequel.

I get complaining about having the story take a backseat, but the problem is that people falsely claim it's not there at all when it absolutely is.

Everyone is excited to see the journey in age of calamity. Zelda discovering her powers, meeting the champions, Zelda's relationship with Link, Link's relationship with the champions. But the funny thing?

Pretty much all of that was directly shown in memories or described in diaries in BotW.

This is not a new story. It IS the primary story of BotW. The writers were able to craft a story and lore that ended up being so well liked that people could analyze and theorize it for years, and then get excited when a prequel is going to tell the exact same story, just show it on the screen. Story events have EXACT locations in the world where they happen, and will be presented 1:1 with amazing consistency. Many of the ruins in the game have unique stories as to which battles caused them to become ruins, and the detail the writers put into BotW have set up Age of Calamity to convey them with extreme precision

And even areas that aren't directly tied to the *main* plot of Age of Calamity have detailed history written about them and ready to be elaborated whenever. Which we've already seen happen with Age of Calamity, and will probably happen even more with BotW2. Nintendo is poised to create one of the most lore-rich game worlds of all time.

There needs to be a discussion had on if BotW's story was actually bad, or if you just didn't like the way it was presented, which is understandable! But also, consider game design for a second. Nintendo HAD to put a linear, twisting and turning story in the back seat for BotW's design to work the way it was so acclaimed for doing.

I think Age of Calamity is going to shift the discussion on BotW's "poor" story, and by the end of this, the BotW saga will easily have the most beloved story in the franchise.

Age of Calamity is going to present this story in an exciting way, but BotW has already told it to us in extreme detail.

I hope that doesn't go overlooked.
When people say BotW doesn't have a story they don't mean that there is not a story in the game. There's no story in the present. It's certainly interesting to recover the memories, but no matter what you do Link in the present doesn't grow as a character and your actions have little impact on the world. There's also some serious dissonance between the threat Ganon is presented to be 100 years ago and the present. It makes the adventure you yourself experience less impactful.

It's also frustrating how non-committal and loose it is with its lore. Quality over quantity. There's always been discussion in the fanbase about lore but it was mostly relegated to the Four Swords games and prior to Hyrule Historia the first 3 games because those were the only games that didn't clearly state how they fit with the others on their own. The main games made by Nintendo were always careful and meaningful about the lore.

I think you're overselling how much thought was put into the lore of the various ruins in BotW. AoC is taking huge liberties and retconning the shit out of BotW. Stuff like the sheikah slate runes being used and the sheikah towers emerging despite BotW being very clear those things did not happen 100 years ago. And while they've paid some attention to the locations of ruins in BotW with AoC, there are major differences in scale and substance. For example, in AoC we see that everything between the Hyrule Field tower and Exchange Ruins is a single town, however in BotW the distance between these 2 ruins is much larger and separated by rolling hills. The it's a legend excuse kinda falls apart when games are set only 100 years apart and characters from 100 years ago are still alive.

Skyward Sword is a much beefier game in the story front. It basically tells a similar story to the 100 years ago story in BotW; Zelda goes around to various springs to unlock her powers while Link trains to become the hero. Much better character development all around and lots of growth. Wind Waker, Twilight Princess, and Spirit Tracks are also better at story. The OoT, Wind Waker, Spirit Tracks line is easily the most clear about its lore.
 
Jan 10, 2018
6,927
I'm the kind of person who can get completely lost in the lore of a game, but I never felt that BotW provided this opportunity for me. The overall story was also presented fairly simple. All in all I thought this was the whole point as the gameplay is the part of the experience that everyone seems to talk about.
 

apocat

Member
Oct 27, 2017
10,061

Is very likely a very conscious design decision. It helps let the player project their own identity on the avatar of Link. This is what Link has always been. He's never been a fully developed character, because the stories in the Zelda games have never been about Link as a character.

Check out Scott mcClouds understanding comics for a more in depth explanation of this kind of design.
5447f306-7b80-4160-bstjc5.jpeg
 

Onilink

Member
Oct 30, 2017
1,586
To me, BOTW is story-heavy. But is not spoon-eating explained, so a lot of people says that it has no story. BOTW is a giant final boss preparation, and the story is explained the memories.
 

lvl 99 Pixel

Member
Oct 25, 2017
44,706
Is very likely a very conscious design decision. It helps let the player project their own identity on the avatar of Link. This is what Link has always been. He's never been a fully developed character, because the stories in the Zelda games have never been about Link as a character.

Check out Scott mcClouds understanding comics for a more in depth explanation of this kind of design.
5447f306-7b80-4160-bstjc5.jpeg

Nah, Wind Waker Link was ALIVE. He was clearly sad when saying goodbye to the king while Hyrule was being flooded. Emoting is different from having dialogue.
 

K Samedi

Member
Oct 27, 2017
4,990
I'm not a fan of the warriors games and I skipped Hyrule Warriors but I will buy this one just for the story and lore and probably enjoy it a lot because of the story. The gameplay also looks to be better than Hyrule Warriors so it's a good formula for success.
 

Gouf

Member
May 17, 2018
1,004
The overworld of Breath of Wild certainly has a lot of hidden away lore to it that is honestly rather impressive if you take the time to look at it. Despite that, I missed the majority of the bigger mysteries of the world on my first playthrough even though I was talking to pretty much all the NPCs. The main reason that's the case is because the game never gives you a reason to care about any of it. The presentation of pretty much all the story related elements in BotW is extremely poor. The voice direction (particularly in English) is terrible, BotW Link is agonizingly unresponsive in every situation in comparison to prior Links, and the main players in the story are mostly super basic character archetypes that aren't given enough screen time to really be interesting.

I also take some issue with the fact that a lot of theories surrounding the world of this game reference lore that's in Creating a Champion moreso than stuff that's easily gleaned from the environmental storytelling within the game. Some of the environmental storytelling is great and can be inferred from what you piece together in-game, but there's a lot of info that I'm not sure I'd know if I didn't come across it in a book. Having stuff that can only be understood from the book is fine and really unavoidable given how big the game is, but I don't know if fans having to rely on outside works is necessarily such a good thing.

I'm all for minimalist storytelling as I love Team Ico games and think their style of worldbuilding would be a great fit for Zelda, but BotW doesn't provide a whole lot of hooks for people to care about what they dish out.

I also find it a little funny how this thread opens with the premise of BotW having one of the most lore rich worlds in gaming with it being capable of filling a 400 page book. Like yeah, that's great, but I feel like you could pull out the lore bible for a lot of games and come up with a similarly content rich book.

When people say BotW doesn't have a story they don't mean that there is not a story in the game. There's no story in the present. It's certainly interesting to recover the memories, but no matter what you do Link in the present doesn't grow as a character and your actions have little impact on the world. There's also some serious dissonance between the threat Ganon is presented to be 100 years ago and the present. It makes the adventure you yourself experience less impactful.

It's also frustrating how non-committal and loose it is with its lore. Quality over quantity. There's always been discussion in the fanbase about lore but it was mostly relegated to the Four Swords games and prior to Hyrule Historia the first 3 games because those were the only games that didn't clearly state how they fit with the others on their own. The main games made by Nintendo were always careful and meaningful about the lore.

I think you're overselling how much thought was put into the lore of the various ruins in BotW. AoC is taking huge liberties and retconning the shit out of BotW. Stuff like the sheikah slate runes being used and the sheikah towers emerging despite BotW being very clear those things did not happen 100 years ago. And while they've paid some attention to the locations of ruins in BotW with AoC, there are major differences in scale and substance. For example, in AoC we see that everything between the Hyrule Field tower and Exchange Ruins is a single town, however in BotW the distance between these 2 ruins is much larger and separated by rolling hills. The it's a legend excuse kinda falls apart when games are set only 100 years apart and characters from 100 years ago are still alive.

Skyward Sword is a much beefier game in the story front. It basically tells a similar story to the 100 years ago story in BotW; Zelda goes around to various springs to unlock her powers while Link trains to become the hero. Much better character development all around and lots of growth. Wind Waker, Twilight Princess, and Spirit Tracks are also better at story. The OoT, Wind Waker, Spirit Tracks line is easily the most clear about its lore.
Great post. Pretty much how I feel about it too.

Nah, Wind Waker Link was ALIVE. He was clearly sad when saying goodbye to the king while Hyrule was being flooded. Emoting is different from having dialogue.
Yeah, Toon Link, Skyward Sword Link, and even Twilight Princess Link were all pretty good at expressing emotion when it made sense for them to. BotW attempts to explain Link's stoic nature via Zelda's diary, but it honestly falls pretty flat for me considering the dude is such a snarky goofball in most of the dialogue options and his unemotive nature in cutscenes makes him appear like an inhuman mannequin rather than a person.
 

Deleted member 10737

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 27, 2017
49,774
i know it's an unpopular opinion but i loves the story of botw and thought it was a great fit for what the game was going for. can't wait for age of calamity, i was a bit skeptical at first about the going too hard on the story but the trailers they've shown have really been great and i like the direction.
for botw2 tho, i hope the focus on story is not too heavy and is more like the first game.
 

fourfourfun

Member
Oct 27, 2017
7,684
England
The present day story in BOTW is what happens to you, not what you are told. We all have stories about what has happened to us in the game, they're all unique, which is why the topic of experiences in BOTW is so enduring. Everything else is framing for your narrative.
 

Neiteio

Member
Oct 25, 2017
24,137
Yep, BotW is loaded with lore and story.

In the present you have 10 major communities (Kakariko Village, Hateno Village, Lurelin Village, Tarrey Town, Rito Village, Goron City, Zora's Domain, Gerudo Town, Kara Kara Bazaar and Korok Forest), and 15 stables for 25 communities total.

Each has its own cast of characters, and often journals and diaries to read on tables and shelves. Additional NPCs travel the roads, rest in camps, get into skirmishes with monsters, etc. All NPCs have names.

Likewise, there are countless items, armors, materials, meals and elixirs, each with their own icon and description, further fleshing out the world. You get a sense of the economy and culture, how these people live and work and dress and eat.

Then you open up the map - at a glance there are hundreds and hundreds of named locations, across a topography that makes geographical sense and is completely traversable, as is BotW's specialty.

You have around two-dozen fully voiced flashback scenes, but also additional scenes in the present at the Great Plateau, Kakariko, and the four homelands of the Champions. Those homelands undergo changes due to your actions - the Rito no longer live in fear of Medoh, Ruta's rain ceases in Zora's Domain, the sandstorm ends in the desert, etc. Dorephan, Sidon and the Zora elders achieve closure with Mipha; Riju gains the confidence to follow in her mother's footsteps (on a side note, she has her own 24-hour schedule spanning the throne room, bedroom, shrine and seal pen, Majora's Mask-style); and so on.

There's a subplot building your home in Hateno, and an entire racially diverse town you build from the ground up in Akkala. There are characters with connections across communities, like the Hateno man who married the Lurelin woman. There are recurring encounters with Kass that yield yet more lore. There are also things that inspire awe -- the three dragons, the Lord of the Mountain, the horse fairy.

You move faster in Hyrule Warriors, which accounts for the distance you cover more quickly, but the TGS stream noted how the Zelda team is making sure the modified maps generally align with BotW's map for authenticity.

Indeed, the countless ruins across BotW's Hyrule allow you to play archeologist. The official book "Creating A Champion" shows across 400+ pages the stunning level of thought that went into the placement of virtually every single detail.

For example, the book features two entire pages explaining the Akkala Citadel's purpose guarding a bottleneck from the coast to the mainland, repelling invaders from the eastern sea. It explains the three cannon battery placements and how their crossfire would stop invaders from reaching Central Hyrule, the river basin at the heart of the kingdom. It notes how the citadel did not anticipate an invasion from within the kingdom, however, so when the corrupted Guardians approached from the west, the soldiers who retreated there for Hyrule's last stand were doomed.

All of this world-building made BotW a richer experience than any Zelda prior, and now AoC will further mine those depths while adding additional detail. I trust BotW2 will do the same.

We are witnessing the Compilation of BotW -- like FF7, practically a series within a series -- and I'm all for it.
 

Zippo

Banned
Dec 8, 2017
8,256
Nobody doubts that Zelda has a ton of backstory in BOTW.

Basically everything interesting happened 100years beforehand and you don't get to experience really any of it in BOTW.
That's not the same thing as an active plot that the player character actually takes a role in, which is what people complaining about it missing want...
^
 

Grahf

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,664
Yeah it has some lore but it's not THAT much. The plot's simple enough you could basically summarize the game in one or two sentence, and there's still HUGE gaps to fill.
So I wouldn't say BotW lore was "overlooked" it was more like "under told".

Then again, I don't think anyone comes to Zelda with lore as a motivation. "Ganon bad, Zelda and Link good, play to see how they win using shining arrows or shining sword"
 

Aether

Member
Jan 6, 2018
4,421
Lore != Story.

First: Dark souls never had much story, zelda had more, and way better stories/plots.

Lore wise: BotW is the best entry, by faaaaar.
Backstory? Is okay, has potential to be greatly told.
The story in the game, of link finding himself and going back to his quest? eh...
Its waaay to formulaic: Go to a place, get a flashback, do something,
go to the beast with a descendant of the champion, win against a blight.
Wind waker had the part where you go to the castle under the water and zeldas secret, twilight princess had moments like the rush for midna, ...

Better story: Twilight princess, Skyward Sword, Majoras Mask, ...some would even argue OoT, but it is probably simular generic/basic.

BotW 2 has potential to be huge with the story, since lore and all is established.


Saying as someone that was never a zelda story fan, but was dissapointed by the story since the lore had so much potential for more.
 

Weltall Zero

Game Developer
Banned
Oct 26, 2017
19,343
Madrid
I didn't know that BotW being by far the most story / lore heavy Zelda was controversial, but to be fair, that's a really low bar to clear.

And don't get me wrong, this is a feature, not a bug: story-light is how I want most of my Nintendo games. I'm not a fan of having lots of story just for the sake of it, and getting in the way of the gameplay which is precisely Nintendo's world-class strength.
 

MrWindUpBird

Banned
Oct 28, 2017
3,686
Lore heavy does not equal a story being good. Destiny is a prime example of this where it has some pretty cool lore, but a terrible story. Breath of the Wild is the same way. This is one of the most beloved games to have come out in years, we don't need to defend every single thing about the game just because we liked it. There is a reason that many people view BotW as the weakest entry story wise. It's okay that people don't like it.
 

Glio

Member
Oct 27, 2017
24,528
Spain
I really liked BOTW's story as its narrative fit perfectly with the openness and minimalism of the gameplay, there is a good synergy there.

But maybe I'm the weirdo because Link's Awakening and Majora's Mask are my least favorite Zelda stories. And there isn't even any story in Zelda that I consider "worth playing the game for the story."
 
Last edited:

Dyle

One Winged Slayer
The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
29,944
The plot needed just a little more meat on it for people to chew on, what you actually get to do is sometimes a little underwhelming compared to what you see happening in the flashbacks.

But more importantly who were the Zonai?
 
Apr 9, 2019
631
And don't get me wrong, this is a feature, not a bug: story-light is how I want most of my Nintendo games.
Yessiree, in games I usually can't wait for story bits to be over so I can engage with the interactive medium interactively =P . BotW was constantly making sure the story didn't get in the way and it's something I hope they can retain in the future. I loved the no-nonsense approach during the Rito Village segment for example, but got a little inpatient with the Zora's Domain segment because of all the talking. I hope the Zelda team chooses story minimalism once more for BotW2.

The thought that went into the environments and history can speak through gameplay, without any story. Seeing how the Bridge of Hylia or Akkala Fortress looked like and were used 100 years ago in AoC excites me much more than expensive cutscenes.
 

Cronogear

â–˛ Legend â–˛
Member
Oct 27, 2017
3,984
Honestly? The whole "minimal direct narrative but tons of lore while exploring a ruined world" motif is my jam.

BotW, Dark Souls, and Metroid Prime all do this.
 

Glio

Member
Oct 27, 2017
24,528
Spain
I didn't know that BotW being by far the most story / lore heavy Zelda was controversial, but to be fair, that's a really low bar to clear.

And don't get me wrong, this is a feature, not a bug: story-light is how I want most of my Nintendo games. I'm not a fan of having lots of story just for the sake of it, and getting in the way of the gameplay which is precisely Nintendo's world-class strength.
I think similar. When people praise the plot of some Zelda I always have the feeling of "It's fine, I guess" but I prefer to talk about the dungeons or the puzzles.

Minimizing it was the right decision.
 

Grunty

Member
Oct 28, 2017
7,362
Gruntilda’s Lair
As someone who is a big fan of the official timeline, I can't enjoy BoTW story as they didn't find it important enough to include it. They alluded to where it was taking place many times before release with hints here and there, and then afterwards decided it was better not to mention it at all. Very disappointed. Don't commit to a timeline if you're not going to continue following through.
 

Cuburger

Member
Oct 28, 2017
10,975
I've always appreciated the story in BotW, but it's non-linear nature does make it seem like it doesn't exist as much as it does, or that it's easy to overlook how it all comes together. With AoC, seeing fans piece together all the details I overlooked the significance of while playing BotW really makes me hype for seeing it all play out in a linear, explicit fashion. I had my own wishlist of events that I wanted to see fleshed out while playing BotW, but having people point out, for instance, the significance of the fall of Akkala Citadel was something that didn't really dawn on me while visiting it. I understood what happened in terms of the outcome, but it never really sunk in what that meant.

I really don't want to overhype myself for this game, but I do have high expectations for how the story and presentation all come together to create something really special to where it will feel like a legit trilogy for the series when all is said and done.
 

LumberPanda

Member
Feb 3, 2019
6,357
Reminds me of when Dark Souls came out. So many gamefaqs threads of people whining about how "it's a jrpg with no story!"

They wrong.
 

AppleKid

Member
Feb 21, 2018
2,532
Lore =/= story. The lore has always been the only interesting part of the plot of this game as has already been mentioned. The story is pretty much non-existent
 

WestEgg

One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 25, 2017
14,047
Lore =/= story. The lore has always been the only interesting part of the plot of this game as has already been mentioned. The story is pretty much non-existent
I wouldn't say non-existent, but I would definitely say the narrative of the game is lighter than past games such as Ocarina of Time and especially Skyward Sword, while agreeing the lore and background information has much, much more thought put into it than previous games.
 

Deleted member 8752

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 26, 2017
10,122
I don't really care about the Zelda lore anymore than the creators do.
What? They clearly care about lore.

I'd say the lore is a major part of the appeal. I think people are just salty about the timeline when it was revealed. But lore is not the same as plot. And I think the timeline isn't truly cannon.
 

Glio

Member
Oct 27, 2017
24,528
Spain
Another thing that affects all the stories of all the Zeldas but in BOTW is more pronounced: It is difficult to make a really complex or deep story when most of the time you manage a solo character solving puzzles in dungeons or exploring the world.

Just like Dark Souls or Bloodborne, tbh.
 

Mimosa

Community & Social Media Manager
Verified
Oct 23, 2019
795
Is very likely a very conscious design decision. It helps let the player project their own identity on the avatar of Link. This is what Link has always been. He's never been a fully developed character, because the stories in the Zelda games have never been about Link as a character.

Check out Scott mcClouds understanding comics for a more in depth explanation of this kind of design.
5447f306-7b80-4160-bstjc5.jpeg

Except Link is closer to the first pic than the 2nd.

If they want an avatar then make an avatar. Link is clearly a specific character with defined traits and a backstory and motivations (just look at the internet's counter reaction if ever there are discussions about him straying from the white male blonde/brown-haired design).

At this point they need to stop trying to walk the fence - it's awkward and outdated and for me, the main thing that holds the presentation back.
 
Apr 26, 2020
736
As someone who is a big fan of the official timeline, I can't enjoy BoTW story as they didn't find it important enough to include it. They alluded to where it was taking place many times before release with hints here and there, and then afterwards decided it was better not to mention it at all. Very disappointed. Don't commit to a timeline if you're not going to continue following through.


Soo you are against any soft story reboot what so ever? (Important to note that i also like the timeline)

Im actually glad they distanced themselves from that timeline. It releases them from their own attached shackles and allowes for creative freedom (Zora +Rito living at the same time?) and to get a on itself standing BotW trilogy is just great
 

Skittzo

Member
Oct 25, 2017
41,037
Yep, BotW is loaded with lore and story.

In the present you have 10 major communities (Kakariko Village, Hateno Village, Lurelin Village, Tarrey Town, Rito Village, Goron City, Zora's Domain, Gerudo Town, Kara Kara Bazaar and Korok Forest), and 15 stables for 25 communities total.

Each has its own cast of characters, and often journals and diaries to read on tables and shelves. Additional NPCs travel the roads, rest in camps, get into skirmishes with monsters, etc. All NPCs have names.

Likewise, there are countless items, armors, materials, meals and elixirs, each with their own icon and description, further fleshing out the world. You get a sense of the economy and culture, how these people live and work and dress and eat.

Then you open up the map - at a glance there are hundreds and hundreds of named locations, across a topography that makes geographical sense and is completely traversable, as is BotW's specialty.

You have around two-dozen fully voiced flashback scenes, but also additional scenes in the present at the Great Plateau, Kakariko, and the four homelands of the Champions. Those homelands undergo changes due to your actions - the Rito no longer live in fear of Medoh, Ruta's rain ceases in Zora's Domain, the sandstorm ends in the desert, etc. Dorephan, Sidon and the Zora elders achieve closure with Mipha; Riju gains the confidence to follow in her mother's footsteps (on a side note, she has her own 24-hour schedule spanning the throne room, bedroom, shrine and seal pen, Majora's Mask-style); and so on.

There's a subplot building your home in Hateno, and an entire racially diverse town you build from the ground up in Akkala. There are characters with connections across communities, like the Hateno man who married the Lurelin woman. There are recurring encounters with Kass that yield yet more lore. There are also things that inspire awe -- the three dragons, the Lord of the Mountain, the horse fairy.

You move faster in Hyrule Warriors, which accounts for the distance you cover more quickly, but the TGS stream noted how the Zelda team is making sure the modified maps generally align with BotW's map for authenticity.

Indeed, the countless ruins across BotW's Hyrule allow you to play archeologist. The official book "Creating A Champion" shows across 400+ pages the stunning level of thought that went into the placement of virtually every single detail.

For example, the book features two entire pages explaining the Akkala Citadel's purpose guarding a bottleneck from the coast to the mainland, repelling invaders from the eastern sea. It explains the three cannon battery placements and how their crossfire would stop invaders from reaching Central Hyrule, the river basin at the heart of the kingdom. It notes how the citadel did not anticipate an invasion from within the kingdom, however, so when the corrupted Guardians approached from the west, the soldiers who retreated there for Hyrule's last stand were doomed.

All of this world-building made BotW a richer experience than any Zelda prior, and now AoC will further mine those depths while adding additional detail. I trust BotW2 will do the same.

We are witnessing the Compilation of BotW -- like FF7, practically a series within a series -- and I'm all for it.
This is a good post, and it reminded me of plenty of things I had actually forgotten about in my playthrough. The game had plenty of story and agency even in the present, just not really that heavy of a "main plot" thread in the present, and that's okay.
 

justiceiro

Banned
Oct 30, 2017
6,664
Story events have EXACT locations in the world where they happen, and will be presented 1:1 with amazing consistency.
Is this confirmed? Because sounds like wishful thinking on op part.

I really don't see a musou game being deep in any aspect. We are lucky if we even get a cutscenes between battles.
 

Gold Arsene

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
30,757
As someone who is a big fan of the official timeline, I can't enjoy BoTW story as they didn't find it important enough to include it. They alluded to where it was taking place many times before release with hints here and there, and then afterwards decided it was better not to mention it at all. Very disappointed. Don't commit to a timeline if you're not going to continue following through.
As a staunch timeline defender I think they made the best move possible. It allowed them a lot of freedom to mix and match without having to actually retcon anything.
Is this confirmed? Because sounds like wishful thinking on op part.

I really don't see a musou game being deep in any aspect. We are lucky if we even get a cutscenes between battles.
I mean this is looking to be a pretty meaty game story wise. We've already seen a fair bit of cutscenes.
 

Parthenios

The Fallen
Oct 28, 2017
13,613
"Lore" and "story" are two very different things. The story in BotW is very weak and lacking (by necessity of the game design).

The (presumably) much more linear nature of Hyrule Warriors means they can actually tell a story, borrowing the lore from BotW (and I would hazard a guess that AoC doesn't add much lore as a trade-off).
 

Vampirolol

Member
Dec 13, 2017
5,822
Count me in the group that likes lore more than story in these type of games. Lore is more immersive.
 

NotLiquid

One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 25, 2017
34,770
The story in BOTW wasn't really anything special but it was all it needed to be in order to keep me engaged. The lore itself and the environmental storytelling was fantastic. I love games where you discover remnants of long passed history, or even things that are happening in the present (Metroid Prime juggled both of those extremely well).
 
OP
OP
Phendrift

Phendrift

Member
Oct 25, 2017
32,303
Lore heavy does not equal a story being good. Destiny is a prime example of this where it has some pretty cool lore, but a terrible story. Breath of the Wild is the same way. This is one of the most beloved games to have come out in years, we don't need to defend every single thing about the game just because we liked it. There is a reason that many people view BotW as the weakest entry story wise. It's okay that people don't like it.
The plot needed just a little more meat on it for people to chew on, what you actually get to do is sometimes a little underwhelming compared to what you see happening in the flashbacks.

But more importantly who were the Zonai?
having a lot of lore doesn't mean the main storytelling and narrative wasn't boring as fuck
Lore =/= story. The lore has always been the only interesting part of the plot of this game as has already been mentioned. The story is pretty much non-existent
this is what I have been trying to say though, the flashbacks ARE the big part story. It's not non existent at all, it's fleshed out in memory cutscenes and diaries. Just because it's not told to you in a linear way where you're actually there, doesn't mean it's not the story that the writers spent the most time crafting.

That was my whole problem, people hand waving the memories as "not story" when they absolutely do tell on with plot twists, character arcs, and fleshing our relationships with characters.
 

Tarot Deck

Avenger
Oct 27, 2017
4,233
Finding the king's diary in the castle was a revelation. A moment that most games would make it mandatory and even turn into a cutscene, was just another book in this game.

I only found it in my second playthrough. There are a LOT of moments like this...
on one hand I am glad they let the player find this on their own, on the other hand I wish it was something more meaningful.

I feared they would let all this world building go to waste, and was my biggest criticism on BotW... But since they are making 2 more games with it, I more than pleased.
 

Grunty

Member
Oct 28, 2017
7,362
Gruntilda’s Lair
Soo you are against any soft story reboot what so ever? (Important to note that i also like the timeline)

Im actually glad they distanced themselves from that timeline. It releases them from their own attached shackles and allowes for creative freedom (Zora +Rito living at the same time?) and to get a on itself standing BotW trilogy is just great

As a staunch timeline defender I think they made the best move possible. It allowed them a lot of freedom to mix and match without having to actually retcon anything.

It's not that I'm against anything being 'soft rebooted'. As I mentioned, Aunoma had alluded to the game taking place somewhere on the timeline in interviews before the game's release. For example, stating that the game takes place where "Ganon has been defeated many times" as one of his answers. So playing the game, I'm digging and digging through more trying to determine where it takes place, while also eagerly awaiting for Aunoma to eventually reveal it himself. But it never happens.

If they were going the 'soft reboot' route from the very beginning, then I'd had rather they had been honest about it instead of teasing its placement. Heck, if they just simply came out today and said that it was a convergence of all three timelines, I'd be completely satisfied.
 
Apr 26, 2020
736
It's not that I'm against anything being 'soft rebooted'. As I mentioned, Aunoma had alluded to the game taking place somewhere on the timeline in interviews before the game's release. For example, stating that the game takes place where "Ganon has been defeated many times" as one of his answers. So playing the game, I'm digging and digging through more trying to determine where it takes place, while also eagerly awaiting for Aunoma to eventually reveal it himself. But it never happens.

If they were going the 'soft reboot' route from the very beginning, then I'd had rather they had been honest about it instead of teasing its placement. Heck, if they just simply came out today and said that it was a convergence of all three timelines, I'd be completely satisfied.


i believe he said that players had to play the game to understand where it fits in the timeline....and when someone does that that person knows that it doesnt fit at all in the timeline and Aonuma knew this. About the fact that Ganon has been defeated many times before in the history of Botw...that is also true cuz we know if the events of 10.000 years ago. At the same time we knew Rito and Zora are both living races in BotW that was already a huge indication that this game was far removed from the known timeline
 
OP
OP
Phendrift

Phendrift

Member
Oct 25, 2017
32,303
Finding the king's diary in the castle was a revelation. A moment that most games would make it mandatory and even turn into a cutscene, was just another book in this game.

I only found it in my second playthrough. There are a LOT of moments like this...
on one hand I am glad they let the player find this on their own, on the other hand I wish it was something more meaningful.

I feared they would let all this world building go to waste, and was my biggest criticism on BotW... But since they are making 2 more games with it, I more than pleased.
Yeah I agree, it would've been a shame to let it all go to waste.

Normally with Zelda, they're super vague and let the player figure it out. But for BotW, they put so much detail in it'd be a shame if we didn't see more of it brought to life considering the effort
 

Weltall Zero

Game Developer
Banned
Oct 26, 2017
19,343
Madrid
Yessiree, in games I usually can't wait for story bits to be over so I can engage with the interactive medium interactively =P . BotW was constantly making sure the story didn't get in the way and it's something I hope they can retain in the future. I loved the no-nonsense approach during the Rito Village segment for example, but got a little inpatient with the Zora's Domain segment because of all the talking. I hope the Zelda team chooses story minimalism once more for BotW2.

The thought that went into the environments and history can speak through gameplay, without any story. Seeing how the Bridge of Hylia or Akkala Fortress looked like and were used 100 years ago in AoC excites me much more than expensive cutscenes.
I think similar. When people praise the plot of some Zelda I always have the feeling of "It's fine, I guess" but I prefer to talk about the dungeons or the puzzles.

Minimizing it was the right decision.

*highfive*
 

RobbRivers

Member
Jan 3, 2018
2,021
I find Zelda more interesting since BOTW so I would get rid of the "old lore" that is very confusing and incoherent and start a new BOTW lore.