Age of Calamity: How the story changes allowed for a massive step forward in the Zelda series, and a tough realization about Link (OPEN SPOILERS)

[Phendrift]

Hyrule Warriors: Age of Calamity is a pseudo prequel to Breath of the Wild. What that means to me is that it works within the canon framework of BotW's memories, this is not just slapping BotW characters in a random scenario for fanservice - it operates 100% within that world and its lore, but goes on to have an alternative ending. This is important to note because to me this means these are canon, official interpretations of these characters and their personalities. Just as important as Breath of the Wild's, despite a branching timeline.

I want to take this thread to explore Age of Calamity's story changes, what they allow for in terms of character development and what this means for the Zelda series.

Age of Calamity's story changes and their impact

Spoilers ahead obviously!!

The 100 years ago story in Breath of the Wild is a key part of the game's story. However, it is only the first half. It is unfinished. It exists to provide motivation to Link to defeat Ganon and save Zelda from holding him back. The memories end with Link being the final hope as a cliffhanger for BotW.

In Age of Calamity, things play out mostly the same for a bit, despite a couple of new character introductions. They learn calamity is happening, they recruit the champions to pilot the divine beasts, and Zelda struggles with awakening her powers and it becomes too late as Ganon hijacks the beasts and guardians. The big shift happens when the future champions time travel and save their past counterparts from death in the Divine Beasts. From here on out, we get to experience the Battles of Akkala Citadel and Fort Hateno, but they end up being wins for Hyrule. And for the final assault on Hyrule Castle, all the stops are pulled out to defeat Ganon and seal him for good.

So they win this time. Whether or not this is disappointing isnt the topic of this thread. I thought seeing BotW's tragic story play out would've been cool too. The main point I want to make is that these story changes allow for a complete story where Link is not the final hope and can be removed from his position as the main character, the story is no longer simply setting the stage for Breath of the Wild. This brings me to my next point...

Now let's talk about Zelda, and the strides they have made for her in this game

Princess Zelda is far and away the main character of Age of Calamity. This is an expansion of her role in BotW's memories, where we saw her struggle with insecurities about not yet unlocking her sealing power, and struggle with her father who forbids her from pursuing her passion - research.

These are still present in Age of Calamity, however we no longer see it just from Link's point of view. We see Zelda have conversations with characters such as Impa, a dear friend, and Urbosa, a mother figure.

And the story changes mentioned above allow for this to be a complete arc for Zelda herself, she is the hero of this game. She goes from insecure yet passionate and driven, to overcoming that and unlocking her powers to bravely charge into the battlefield, finding her voice as a leader and rallying hyrule's troops with powerful speeches, and showing her father that her research would help in overcoming the calamity. At the end, she deals the final blow to Ganon after strategizing and implementing her plan to take back Hyrule Castle.

Indeed, this is a massive step forward. Zelda is the most complex character she's been yet, and at the most important role she's ever been in in age of calamity.

But now, with Zelda in the main character spot, it's time to ask aonuma's infamous question....

now we must ask "well what would Link do?"

The answer is, well... not much. He fulfills his stereotypical role of the knight guarding the princess and wielding the master sword. And to be honest, this made me realize something I hadn't before. With Link out of the main character role, he is completely underwhelming compared to the other characters. His silence becomes not a self insert for the character anymore, it is now him being boring compared to everyone else.

AoC shifted from "inserting yourself into a fairytale" to "character focused JRPG." It's akin to FFX - Zelda is the main character like Tidus/Yuna who grows over the game. The champions and Impa are her colorful support system like Lulu, Wakka, Rikku and Auron. Link is the Kimahri, bland and boring.

Once I saw interesting and fully voiced characters in the Zelda series, it finally clicked that Link has been holding the narrative potential back for so long. While Zelda dumps her envy on him in BotW's memories and he just sits there and take it, AoC has a cutscene where she is taking to Urbosa. Urbosa can tell Zelda is envious of other's successes and actually does something to provide a different point of view saying "chill out, everyone progresses at their own pace and you won't get anywhere by comparing yourself to others all the time." It's much more interesting than monologuing to link.


Overall, what am I saying?

AOC's story changes, while it would've been cool to see the failure, allow for a complete story where Zelda can shine as a complex main character who actually grows over the course of the game and succeeds in the end. It is no longer setting the stage for BotW and dependent on Link. Speaking of, Link is completely forgettable in AoC the second he loses the spotlight, and it makes me realize that the "Link should talk!" people have a point. Is Aoc the best narrative ever with amazing character development? No. But it's a great step forward and something new for the Zelda series specifically


Does this mean anything for BotW2? Who knows, but this is just as important a story in the series as BotW is. It was a breath of fresh air to see Zelda in the main character role. I don't foresee them changing Link in BotW2, but I'm hoping they realize that by characterizing Link the way they do Zelda, there is so much potential there

 

[Phendrift]

Ignore typo, supposed to say OPEN SPOILERS 😑

 

[Quinton]

Ignore typo, supposed to say OPEN SPOILERS 😑

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Fixed! Though I will miss "I OOP oih."

 

[PancakeFlip]

I don't think playing the bad ending would have worked well because of how one-sided it was, it wasn't a slowly losing battle of tug of war. Ganon basically used a cheat code and hacked everything and auto-won, you can't really create a good battle scenario around that gameplay wise.

 

[CoinStarDX]

I don't think playing the bad ending would have worked well because of how one-sided it was, it wasn't a slowly losing battle of tug of war. Ganon basically used a cheat code and hacked everything and auto-won, you can't really create a good battle scenario around that gameplay wise.

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I think it would have been interesting to play as Ganon and astor to kill all the champions. Kinda like the first hyrule warriors switching yo villains half way through the story. Except this time they just win.

 

[MidnightCowboy]

It's a weird spot to be in. I agree that Link being mute sometimes kneecaps the drama of particular scenes/moments, but I'm also not interested in hearing him talk. I don't envy the team's position.

 

[TreIII]

If there was anything that I've definitely been disappointed in AoC, it was that what hints of character Link had (especially in the JP scripts for BOTW's diaries and mission log updates) didn't really factor at all, here.

Even if he didn't talk, it would have been nice if he showed more emotion. Or used body language to convey what would've been appropriate. That family that he supposedly had during this era should've got a chance to be showcased. Anything!

But that aside...I really loved AoC. I only hope how they treated Zelda here gets to roll over into the "sequel to Breath of the Wild" in some way.

 

[Kouriozan]

Yeah I really liked her in AoC, it reminds me of Xenoblade X where the main character is Elma and not the nearly silent one you create.
I wish BotW 2 focus more on Zelda, too.

 

[PancakeFlip]

I think it would have been interesting to play as Ganon and astor to kill all the champions. Kinda like the first hyrule warriors switching yo villains half way through the story. Except this time they just win.

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You're right, I didn't think about playing through it like that.

 

[Dyle]

I keep saying that BotW 2 will be co-op with Link and Zelda. It just makes too much sense, from both a gameplay and narrative standpoint. She was the star of the memories in BotW and in BotW 2 she will be the star of the whole game.

 

[——RipTide——]

The focus on Zelda in AOC, and her character arc, certainly sets her up for a large role in BOTW2. Of course, how big will that role be? It'd be astonishing if she bumped Link out of the main role (starting with three hearts, no weapons, different abilities, etc.), but that's not going to happen (but a cool idea). She certainly overshadowed him in AoC.

I would to have Terraco as a permanent pet in BOTW2. Could be a companion on the quest: inventory, map, guide. Lots of potential there.

 

[PtM]

Does this contain BotW spoilers as well?

 

[Tochtli79]

I made my feelings on the changes quite clear in the other spoiler thread, and I haven't yet played AoC (getting it next week). But I don't see how putting the spotlight on Zelda and giving her a stronger arc only through retcon and non-canon is a good thing. The original ending would have put Link to the side completely and had her take the lead in the final battles and face Ganon alone for the first time in the series. Just because she didn't kill Ganon doesn't take away from the fact that this would've been her most proactive and heroic role -- and she would've been doing it alone, without Link at all, something that isn't true of AoC. Maybe my view will change once I play AoC but the whole thing actually convinced me of the opposite, that Nintendo is just that unwilling to make anyone who isn't Link the hero, even if, as you say, Zelda and other characters have grown to become much more interesting and engaging than him. They changed the ending of AoC just so Link would still be around. I was hoping Zelda would be playable in BotW2, but now I really doubt they'd have her take away from Link's spotlight. And yeah, it's time for him to talk.

 

[Phendrift]

I made my feelings on the changes quite clear in the other spoiler thread, and I haven't yet played AoC (getting it next week). But I don't see how putting the spotlight on Zelda and giving her a stronger arc only through retcon and non-canon is a good thing. The original ending would have put Link to the side completely and had her take the lead in the final battles and face Ganon alone for the first time in the series. Just because she didn't kill Ganon doesn't take away from the fact that this would've been her most proactive and heroic role -- and she would've been doing it alone, without Link at all, something that isn't true of AoC. Maybe my view will change once I play AoC but the whole thing actually convinced me of the opposite, that Nintendo is just that unwilling to make anyone who isn't Link the hero, even if, as you say, Zelda and other characters have grown to become much more interesting and engaging than him. They changed the ending of AoC just so Link would still be around. I was hoping Zelda would be playable in BotW2, but now I really doubt they'd have her take away from Link's spotlight. And yeah, it's time for him to talk.

Click to shrink...

Link is barely noticeable in AoC. The final battle with Ganon literally ends with a 5 second cutscene of him slicing him with the master sword, followed by like an epic 30 second tug of war between Zelda's light power and Ganon's malice.

I can't exaggerate how much of a backseat he takes in this game compared to the focus he gets in other games.

And I completely disagree on the failure thing. The game would've 100% ended with Zelda saying "Link, you are my only hope...." and cut to the "open your eyes" 100 years later. It could've been a cool final battle maybe, but the story in AoC is much more of a win for Zelda

 

[Diogo Arez]

The story in AoC was simply incredible, way better than the one in BOTW by a mile, preferred them doing an happy ending this time, made Zelda have more development than she could have ever had if Ganon and simply auto won like in the main timeline.
Part of me wishes BOTW2 would go by this timeline, but that's never happening oh well

 

[Mesoian]

I don't think playing the bad ending would have worked well because of how one-sided it was, it wasn't a slowly losing battle of tug of war. Ganon basically used a cheat code and hacked everything and auto-won, you can't really create a good battle scenario around that gameplay wise.

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I don't think that's true. In AOC, they basically break the failure of the heroes down to one specific moment, but only because they could have the time travel magguffin come in to save the day at a unified point. The idea of the heroes steadily losing, moral dropping, soldiers defecting, lands stands for regions being lost or dropped for a variety of reasons, it's all very easy to do, especially in a game where you can be fighting 6 guardians, 3 hinoxes, 4 Lynels and fort boss at once.

If that's the story they wanted to tell, they could easily. But that's generally not why people go to zelda games.

 

[Zen Hero]

It's kind of interesting, even back at the original release of BotW, I saw the calamity era as Zelda's story, while the BotW era is Link's story. They're really different kinds of stories: Zelda's story is a bit more traditional and cinematic, with characters and drama and dialogue, while Link's story is just formed through gameplay and the player's actions, telling the story of a lone boy trying to survive in a post-apocalyptic world. In my opinion, neither type of storytelling is inherently better than the other, they are just different kinds of stories.

Going forward into BotW 2, I think it would be cool if they kept both threads of story going. I feel attached to both Zelda and Link in the BotW universe and I hope they both have a major role in the next game.

 

[Skittzo]

I don't think that's true. In AOC, they basically break the failure of the heroes down to one specific moment, but only because they could have the time travel magguffin come in to save the day at a unified point. The idea of the heroes steadily losing, moral dropping, soldiers defecting, lands stands for regions being lost or dropped for a variety of reasons, it's all very easy to do, especially in a game where you can be fighting 6 guardians, 3 hinoxes, 4 Lynels and fort boss at once.

If that's the story they wanted to tell, they could easily. But that's generally not why people go to zelda games.

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But the idea of the entire land being instantly overwhelmed is exactly what was depicted in BotW. The second Ganon takes over the guardians and sends his blights to the divine beasts it's over, Hyrule doesn't stand a ghost of a chance.

And that's how it would've been in AoC too, if not for the future champions. If they lose the divine beasts they lose any chance of winning, each mission from chapter 5 on has the divine beasts taking out the bulk of the enemy forces. Without that everyone will lose immediately, as we saw in the memories in BotW.

So in that way AoC was extremely faithful to the story of BotW.

 

[Grapezard]

Not super related, but this is part of a gaming trope I dislike where the protagonist is a self-insert blank slate among a cast of actual characters.

Dragon Quest 11 is the worst offender, imo. You have these emotional moments that affect the protagonist personally and all he can muster is a (o_o).
There's a lore reason for why Link stays emotionless in BotW all right, but that's only to justify him not reacting the way a normal character would. And I'm not saying they should go all in by making Link talk, but damn. Dude should show some outward emotion - they've done it before with Toon Link and Skyward Sword Link.

 

[Neiteio]

Great thread.

The story in Age of Calamity is my favorite in a Zelda game since Majora's Mask. It's not just the cutscenes, which are light-years beyond previous efforts, feeling like an animated movie, but also the written setup and payoffs to the hundreds of quests, and even the incidental exchanges during missions.

And most crucially, the characters actually have two-way conversations now. AoC sidelines the ever-silent Link, and has Zelda talk to characters like Impa and Urbosa instead. She confides in them, sharing very real and relatable concerns -- feelings of self-doubt and inadequacy -- and they reassure her with another point of view.

It's an exchange of perspectives we never got with Link and Midna or Link and Tetra, and it's inherently more believable as a human relationship.

Many of the supporting cast are archetypes, as is series traditions, and they play their roles well as colorful characters. Some of the sweetest scenes, funniest scenes and most epic scenes in the series are in this game. I could watch Impa trying to pet Terrako 100 times, and laugh each time. XD

What we have here is a canon parallel timeline, similar to the way Wind Waker and Twilight Princess split off of Ocarina of Time. And things end happily this time, but there are absolutely still stakes. When the Calamity arrives in this game, a pit formed in my stomach. They convincingly sell the dread over Ganon's return like they did the falling moon in Majora's Mask. The heroes earning some peace at the end, after all the horrors they faced down, feels truly appropriate.

And in a way, I wish this was the timeline that would get a sequel. The liveliness of this world, and bringing together all of these different people in one place, enriches things immeasurably.

My one complaint about AoC is that BotW now seems a bit hollow, lol. But we're blessed to have two games in this universe -- and soon, a third.

 

[Mesoian]

But the idea of the entire land being instantly overwhelmed is exactly what was depicted in BotW. The second Ganon takes over the guardians and sends his blights to the divine beasts it's over, Hyrule doesn't stand a ghost of a chance.

And that's how it would've been in AoC too, if not for the future champions. If they lose the divine beasts they lose any chance of winning, each mission from chapter 5 on has the divine beasts taking out the bulk of the enemy forces. Without that everyone will lose immediately, as we saw in the memories in BotW.

So in that way AoC was extremely faithful to the story of BotW.

Click to shrink...

I mean, we don't know the specifics of the timeline regarding that, we just know that when the button is hit, everything collapses (so to speak). It would have been very easy to space out each battle by a matter of hours, some hinging on heroes simply not making it on time, some hinging on simply losing a battle 1 v 1, some hinging on the blights not even being terribly involved and it just being an overwhelming numbers issue. In AOC they do a great job of showing the moments where the heroes would have lost, but there were some of those fights (urbosa mostly) where it feels like she's holding her own and the only reason why she loses is because she has to.

There's a LOT of room for minor fuddling if you wanted this story to be a tragedy while making sure the canon for the botw connective tissue stays firm. Hell, give us more about Link's dad. Let's get into the reason he stops talking. Let's talk about the dragons. There's so much that could be probed that simply isn't from the botw canon.

 

[Lord Vatek]

I've long maintained that silent protagonists in story-heavy games are a relic that need to be retired and this is a perfect example why.

 

[Mesoian]

I've long maintained that silent protagonists in story-heavy games are a relic that need to be retired and this is a perfect example why.

Click to shrink...

They have their place, but the more that these stories become large sprawling epics with huge casts of characters that we're supposed to care about, the less and less the idea of the silent protagonist makes sense.

 

[Phendrift]

But the idea of the entire land being instantly overwhelmed is exactly what was depicted in BotW. The second Ganon takes over the guardians and sends his blights to the divine beasts it's over, Hyrule doesn't stand a ghost of a chance.

And that's how it would've been in AoC too, if not for the future champions. If they lose the divine beasts they lose any chance of winning, each mission from chapter 5 on has the divine beasts taking out the bulk of the enemy forces. Without that everyone will lose immediately, as we saw in the memories in BotW.

So in that way AoC was extremely faithful to the story of BotW.

Click to shrink...

Yup Chapter 6 is Akkala Citadel and Fort Hateno, both of which were lost in BotW (well Hateno wasn't lost but it certainly wasn't won). The missions open with the divine beasts absolutely obliterating tons of enemies lol

 

[Skittzo]

I mean, we don't know the specifics of the timeline regarding that, we just know that when the button is hit, everything collapses (so to speak). It would have been very easy to space out each battle by a matter of hours, some hinging on heroes simply not making it on time, some hinging on simply losing a battle 1 v 1, some hinging on the blights not even being terribly involved and it just being an overwhelming numbers issue. In AOC they do a great job of showing the moments where the heroes would have lost, but there were some of those fights (urbosa mostly) where it feels like she's holding her own and the only reason why she loses is because she has to.

There's a LOT of room for minor fuddling if you wanted this story to be a tragedy while making sure the canon for the botw connective tissue stays firm. Hell, give us more about Link's dad. Let's get into the reason he stops talking. Let's talk about the dragons. There's so much that could be probed that simply isn't from the botw canon.

Click to shrink...

From what I remember of BotW Link and Zelda basically ran to Hateno as soon as the calamity was revived, and once there they fought in that battle and barely survived. There's really not much more room for other battles taking place with the same group of heroes in the timeline we were given. I guess you could split up Link and Zelda from Impa, Hestu, Kogha and maybe Rhoam if he's actually still alive so they can somehow fight at Akkala but other than that there's not much wiggle room in the actual events we were told about.

Logically speaking there's not much wiggle room too, if the divine beasts are corrupted like in BotW.

 

[Lord Vatek]

They have their place, but the more that these stories become large sprawling epics with huge casts of characters that we're supposed to care about, the less and less the idea of the silent protagonist makes sense.

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Yeah, they make sense in Dark Souls and MMOs and the like, where the focus is on gameplay and the character is clearly just a stand-in to experience the world but stuff like Byleth in Three Houses just won't cut it these days imo.

 

[Neiteio]

Fort Hateno was incredible. Literally 360-degree chaos -- hordes of enemies, elemental guardians and lynels, explosions and fire everywhere, etc. And then the Blights show up!

 

[Mesoian]

From what I remember of BotW Link and Zelda basically ran to Hateno as soon as the calamity was revived, and once there they fought in that battle and barely survived. There's really not much more room for other battles taking place with the same group of heroes in the timeline we were given. I guess you could split up Link and Zelda from Impa, Hestu, Kogha and maybe Rhoam if he's actually still alive so they can somehow fight at Akkala but other than that there's not much wiggle room in the actual events we were told about.

Logically speaking there's not much wiggle room too, if the divine beasts are corrupted like in BotW.

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It would make a lot more sense if the game was preloaded with the state of Hyrule. Other than some odd ambiguous scenes of zelda as a child building the little guardian (who's name Ic an't remember right now) and Zelda's dad being a dick, we don't know much. The Yiga clan could be more fleshed out, the main villain could be more fleshed out, the concept of the moblin hordes just being everywhere but no one really dealing it could be more fleshed out...

I personally think making this story a tragedy wouldn't be difficult at all, you just have to start earlier than AOC does because AOC barely talks about the state of the world before ganon is known because the only thing that matters is that ganon is known.

 

[Lord Fanny]

That's a lot of words to say 'I want Zelda to be playable in the next game.' I mean, it's fine to want that but not really sure why you feel the need to argue all of this.

 

[Skittzo]

It would make a lot more sense if the game was preloaded with the state of Hyrule. Other than some odd ambiguous scenes of zelda as a child building the little guardian (who's name Ic an't remember right now) and Zelda's dad being a dick, we don't know much. The Yiga clan could be more fleshed out, the main villain could be more fleshed out, the concept of the moblin hordes just being everywhere but no one really dealing it could be more fleshed out...

I personally think making this story a tragedy wouldn't be difficult at all, you just have to start earlier than AOC does because AOC barely talks about the state of the world before ganon is known because the only thing that matters is that ganon is known.

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Oh yeah I agree with that, it could easily be expanded on pre-calamity. But I thought they did pretty well with what they had in a mostly post-calamity game.

 

[Retromess]

It's almost like having a completely silent automaton for a protagonist is difficult in a story-focused game and most games shouldn't include them unless they include a very robust cast to do all of the emoting and heavy lifting, while your "chosen one" automaton can blindly do the thing and fight the fights.

I would love for more Zelda games to focus more on the non-Link characters. I'm fine with Link being mute, I guess, but then have Link TRULY be mute, where the character is unable to communicate vocally due to XYZ reason, rather than "well we don't want a voice for him because that'd be weird".

Link DOES do a better job of emoting than most silent protagonists (Hero from Dragon Quest, Joker from Persona, looking at you) but I wish they'd just commit more fully, one way or the other.

 

[Deleted member 33120]

Link should talk. There's no excuse anymore. He's inhibiting the drama of every scene as long as he's mute.

 

[Diogo Arez]

Fort Hateno was incredible. Literally 360-degree chaos -- hordes of enemies, elemental guardians and lynels, explosions and fire everywhere, etc. And then the Blights show up!

Click to shrink...

Yeah loved the intensity of those final chapters.
And the moment Zelda unlocked her powers was epic tbh

 

[Mr.Fletcher]

I'm not bothered if Link speaks or not, but if it is the latter, Nintendo needs to do a bit more with him.

He can still emote and have a personality, without a voice. I don't think they ever do enough with him in the games.

People will point to examples here and there, but they need to push further.

 

[Begaria]

Link as a character became extremely boring after Wind Waker. They gave Link animation, made him more of a character through his emotive expressions and whimsical nature in Wind Waker. Then they made him "stoic Link" from Twilight Princess and on with little to differentiate his emotions outside of the odd scene here or there.

They took the massive step with voice acting and giving characterization with Zelda and the crew in BoTW...they need to do it with Link as well.

 

[Dark Cloud]

Some of these battles were World War II like. Just insane chaos and explosions everywhere.

 

[Enduin]

I will now and forever crusade against Link talking or having more story heavy/character driven mainline Zeldas.

AoC is a good spin-off in large part because it does things that the mainline hasn't, won't or can't do by virtue of being a very different kind of game overall, but I really enjoy the mainline series because it has that very light touch on narrative and character development in large part directly because Link is not a normal protagonist who talks and interacts with other characters. His silence and flat character arc ensures the game is focused on the adventure first and foremost. While still affording opportunities for meaningful and interesting story elements as many past games have done time and time again. They're simply more of a plot driven story rather than a character driven one as Link has no internal drama or struggle, just external obstacles.

The Zelda series and Link as a character are fairly unique within gaming and entertainment to me. They're grand stories and adventures, but told plainly and through gameplay as much or more as dialogue and cutscenes. For the most part they greatly embody that fairytale/folklore/legend style and experience that very few other games ever achieve. Walking a fine line between pure environmental story telling that leaves everything to player to discover and traditional narrative story telling that delivers everything directly to the player via copious cutscenes and dialogue. Link as well hasn't ever been this blank slate or stand in for me but has always been more of an aspirational/idealist embodiment of a heroic character all his own. He too walks this fine line between a player avatar and fully developed character. I wish they would do more with the emoting. They did it so well in WW, but have stumbled a bit too much with TP, SS and especially BotW in exploiting that.

Last thing I want is for Zelda to become yet another narrative heavy JRPG-lite series with tons of side characters and interpersonal drama being the focus of the story and events. I do enjoy plenty of games like that, but that doesn't mean I want this series to become that. I'm all for more AoC like spin-offs and side stories that can explore and do different things, but not at the expense of transforming the entire franchise into that.

 

[Ocarina_117]

I haven't played AoC yet.

But as a long term fan of the series for, well as long as I can remember, the last thing I want for the game is to go for a "JRPG-lite" story feel.

I very much felt BoTW was the perfect Zelda game when it came to story. The memories told us enough of the past and the environment filled in the rest wonderfully.

 

[Skittzo]

I will now and forever crusade against Link talking or having more story heavy/character driven mainline Zeldas.

AoC is a good spin-off in large part because it does things that the mainline hasn't, won't or can't do by virtue of being a very different kind of game overall, but I really enjoy the mainline series because it has that very light touch on narrative and character development in large part directly because Link is not a normal protagonist who talks and interacts with other characters. His silence and flat character arc ensures the game is focused on the adventure first and foremost. While still affording opportunities for meaningful and interesting story elements as many past games have done time and time again. They're simply more of a plot driven story rather than a character driven one as Link has no internal drama or struggle, just external obstacles.

The Zelda series and Link as a character are fairly unique within gaming and entertainment to me. They're grand stories and adventures, but told plainly and through gameplay as much or more as dialogue and cutscenes. For the most part they greatly embody that fairytale/folklore/legend style and experience that very few other games ever achieve. Walking a fine line between pure environmental story telling that leaves everything to player to discover and traditional narrative story telling that delivers everything directly to the player via copious cutscenes and dialogue. Link as well hasn't ever been this blank slate or stand in for me but has always been more of an aspirational/idealist embodiment of a heroic character all his own. He too walks this fine line between a player avatar and fully developed character. I wish they would do more with the emoting. They did it so well in WW, but have stumbled a bit too much with TP, SS and especially BotW in exploiting that.

Last thing I want is for Zelda to become yet another narrative heavy JRPG-lite series with tons of side characters and interpersonal drama being the focus of the story and events. I do enjoy plenty of games like that, but that doesn't mean I want this series to become that. I'm all for more AoC like spin-offs and side stories that can explore and do different things, but not at the expense of transforming the entire franchise into that.

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Well said. Mute Link has always worked well for me for similar reasons.

I will say though that he also walks the fine line between established character and avatar for the player and as such it would be nice if he had some optional aesthetic customizations.

 

[Raccoon]

oh I can post it here too



but seriously, you're right. Link's in an awkward transitional spot between generic avatar (that you could rename, even) and an actual character

 

[Enduin]

Well said. Mute Link has always worked well for me for similar reasons.

I will say though that he also walks the fine line between established character and avatar for the player and as such it would be nice if he had some optional aesthetic customizations.

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I completely understand that people have had very different experiences/interpretations of him as a character and there's tons of people who just think of him as this nothing shell only meant to represent them. Personally I found the armor system in BotW to be a great middle ground if you will of letting people express themselves and present their Link more personally, while still keeping him as the same established character for those who view him that way.

BotW2 will all but certainly build and expand off that and I would be more than happy for all future titles to at least keep some aspect of that as best they can or even expanding it in certain areas. But I'd personally not be interested in a full on character creator.

 

[jdstorm]

It's a weird spot to be in. I agree that Link being mute sometimes kneecaps the drama of particular scenes/moments, but I'm also not interested in hearing him talk. I don't envy the team's position.

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mute protagonist is a menu option not a design choice

menu option :
Hear protagonist voice Y/N
Protagonist subtitles Y/N

problem solved

 

[ED Cantu]

I will now and forever crusade against Link talking or having more story heavy/character driven mainline Zeldas.

AoC is a good spin-off in large part because it does things that the mainline hasn't, won't or can't do by virtue of being a very different kind of game overall, but I really enjoy the mainline series because it has that very light touch on narrative and character development in large part directly because Link is not a normal protagonist who talks and interacts with other characters. His silence and flat character arc ensures the game is focused on the adventure first and foremost. While still affording opportunities for meaningful and interesting story elements as many past games have done time and time again. They're simply more of a plot driven story rather than a character driven one as Link has no internal drama or struggle, just external obstacles.

The Zelda series and Link as a character are fairly unique within gaming and entertainment to me. They're grand stories and adventures, but told plainly and through gameplay as much or more as dialogue and cutscenes. For the most part they greatly embody that fairytale/folklore/legend style and experience that very few other games ever achieve. Walking a fine line between pure environmental story telling that leaves everything to player to discover and traditional narrative story telling that delivers everything directly to the player via copious cutscenes and dialogue. Link as well hasn't ever been this blank slate or stand in for me but has always been more of an aspirational/idealist embodiment of a heroic character all his own. He too walks this fine line between a player avatar and fully developed character. I wish they would do more with the emoting. They did it so well in WW, but have stumbled a bit too much with TP, SS and especially BotW in exploiting that.

Last thing I want is for Zelda to become yet another narrative heavy JRPG-lite series with tons of side characters and interpersonal drama being the focus of the story and events. I do enjoy plenty of games like that, but that doesn't mean I want this series to become that. I'm all for more AoC like spin-offs and side stories that can explore and do different things, but not at the expense of transforming the entire franchise into that.

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This is where I am at the moment regarding future main Zelda games.

I mean I am open to a more story driven Zelda game but the limit would be what we already had with Botw and Skyward Sword.
The ideal middle point fo me would be to have the voiced cutscenes with all the characters except for Link but making Link a lot more expressive and interact more with the rest of the cast like in SS instead of just having him standing there staring blankly (which BTW just happens in cutscenes, Link is very expressive in the main game in Botw)

 

[TheCongressman]

I don't see it that way at all. They could achieved this character development by still following the actual events. The only difference is Hyrule succeeding vs failing.

 

[LegendofLex]

really fun idea for BotW2:

DLC where you play in the alternate reality where the Champions won, and Zelda is the protagonist instead of Link

depending on the game's premise, you could potentially just swap out the OG champions + some other key characters in place of the new generation ones, and some parts of Hyrule could exist in a less-ruined state

might be a fun bonus for people who played AoC and loved Zelda's bigger role.

 

[Phendrift]

really fun idea for BotW2:

DLC where you play in the alternate reality where the Champions won, and Zelda is the protagonist instead of Link

depending on the game's premise, you could potentially just swap out the OG champions + some other key characters in place of the new generation ones, and some parts of Hyrule could exist in a less-ruined state

might be a fun bonus for people who played AoC and loved Zelda's bigger role.

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I actually think we could see a two word concept. Normal BotW world, and extremely advanced world that was allowed to thrive because they beat the calamity

 

[LegendofLex]

I actually think we could see a two word concept. Normal BotW world, and extremely advanced world that was allowed to thrive because they beat the calamity

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Yeah, exactly! I think people *want* to explore that world that existed before Ganon wrecked it, but they can't ignore the original continuity they created if they want to continue the story.

I suspect the premise of the next game will be something to do with investigating how to stop the Calamity for good, which is a logical next chapter for both BotW and AOC.

 

[WestEgg]

I do think has a pretty good personality in BotW proper, where he's blunt and sassy towards NPCs and has a lot of good animations, but yeah, AoC doesn't really show this as well so Link doesn't stand out as much. Though I do like him as the multi proficient weapon master he takes the roll of.

 

[Mimosa]

Honestly, maybe this sounds dramatic, but Link's shoehorned presence in AoC is mainly what held the story back for me.

They did an incredible job crafting this high-stakes story where the threat truly feels always 2 steps ahead, and that it's testing these vibrant, human characters to their limits - particularly with Zelda herself - and then you have "oh yeah and the knight that seals the darkness" who has 3 actions throughout the whole thing: staring blankly, nodding while staring blankly, and destroying stuff.

The whole blank character self-insert thing feels sooo outdated at this point. It feels even more frustrating, because they gave him a very specific personality in BotW. Heck, in the Japanese version, the Quest Log is written in his perspective, as his journal. He has full conversations with certain NPC's (literally with one dialogue choice), and all of his dialogue is pretty consistently spicy and playful.

On top of that, in the Making of a Champion book, it mentions how he underwent a personality change after his amnesia. So he definitely has a personality, and definitely isn't mute...it's not a huge leap for the team to just...commit this to cutscenes as well.

 

[Dreavus]

I liked Link's sense of duty, and his ZERO hesitation to throw himself into the fray to protect the others multiple times (even when completely outmatched) was actually pretty awesome at times. Also the few times we get a cut away from his direct perspective but still has him in the scene played out great, like when they're talking about Link while Daruk's giving him rock steaks.

However, the camera shots over to him throughout the story just don't do enough. He needs to be more expressive or speak a little bit. I think having him be a man "of few words" instead of "no words ever" would have been a lot more satisfying, and it'd still be a nice nod to pre-voice link.

It's too bad really, this would have been the game to do it. I doubt this direction will change for BotW2