I don't think that matters. People wont be pissed if all the characters returned and they added new stuff
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After Ultimate will the SSB series find itself in a sticky situation?
- Thread starter Personablue
- Start date
if they have to cut a bunch of characters they're fucked. would be a very tough pill to swallow losing characters like banjo or cloud. that ain't pichu or dr. mario.
I'd honestly be ok with them re-releasing and adding to Ultimate for the rest of time if it meant keeping all those characters
I'd honestly be ok with them re-releasing and adding to Ultimate for the rest of time if it meant keeping all those characters
no, Ultimate made it feasible to bring back everyone by severely reducing the number of new characters
Anything less than not having all the characters will be disappointing esp if my mains aren't in the next game
If that's the case they should just keep porting ultimate and don't make another one
If that's the case they should just keep porting ultimate and don't make another one
I don't give a shit what they do if they don't make the netcode better. They could cut 70% of the roster as long as the netcode is better
Honestly It should be the last game they should just port it to new consoles and sustain DLC and Expansions for SP content.After the second season of dlc , Smash ultimate will have 85 playable characters, it is a certainty that the next game won't be able to surpass this game atleast in terms of character count.
Sakurai said numerous times that including all characters was a herculean task and to not expect it again.
Also including 85 characters in the next game's base roster will not be a financially viable option with so many companies and IPs involved.
So how should the series proceed? A total reboot with new gameplay but far less character or retain as many character as possible and offering the rest as dlc? Or ditch the present dlc characters and instead add new characters only?
No matter what they do, cutting 20-30 characters from the base roster won't be taken lightly by the vocal fanbase and will result in a massive backlash. What can Nintendo do to prevent it?
I hope they do a reboot do a 20 person roster add others as DLC but completely change characters moves especially the ones that dont play anything like they should. Fix the netcode its unplayable.
Their only hope is to cut EVERY existing character and totally rebuild the roster, starting with Waluigi.
Honestly, I can't think of any better solution than reboot the brand and make some sort of 3d fighting game or something else. Ultimate is already perfect and I can't see a particular change that needs to be done or something that can improve the experience more than this one. The only thing I can think of is more characters, but that's it.
The big issue is a lot of the stuff in this thread isn't going to appeal to a large chunk of buyers. Casuals who make up a big part of Smash sales aren't going to care about rollback netcode let alone see it as a reason to buy 15+ million copies.
They're going to see less characters and wonder "why". There'd definitely need to be some big additions to make up for the Hypothetical 30+ character cut that would manage to appeal to your regular consumer.
Similar to how MK9 would likely need to be on par with MK8:D content wise.
Been thinking about how you could further refine the Ultimate roster in a new game along the lines of echoes to limit the number of characters cut. Assuming every single character was able to return but we wanted to refine the roster, here's what I'd personally do (which I'm sure is gonna piss a lot of people off):
Make Dark Samus, Falco, Daisy, Dr Mario, Lucina, Chrom, Dark Pit, Ken and Richter all frame data perfect costumes/variants of their respective counterparts. I feel like all of these characters having individual slots and occasionally impossibly small frame data changes merely contributes to roster bloat.
Even though Richter is better than Simon. But seriously regardless of your feelings on whether or not Pokémon or Fire Emblem has too much representation we can all agree that Dark Pit only takes up an entire slot on the roster because of Papa Sakurai's personal preferences.
The fact that costumes/complete cosmetic overhaul variants aren't a thing in Smash outside of a few characters like Bowser Jr. and Olimar blows my mind. People would pay good money for that on top of the RRP.
If you have to cut characters, my picks are:
Pichu - Pokémon is guilty of the same over-representation problem as FE, and Pichu just reeks of "well he was in Melee because he was new then". I can't suggest cutting FE characters without cutting Pokémon too.
I'd be tempted to put Jigglypuff for the same merit, simply being popular in Japan doesn't mean Jiggly ISN'T an outlier in terms of the Pokémon picked to represent the series. That said, Jiggs has unique moves and a creative playstyle so I don't think it'd be right to cut them.
Young Link - If it'd be at all possible to make Yink a frame perfect costume for Tink, I'd say do it. Otherwise, 3 Links is too many and there are plenty of other Zelda characters that'd be great replacements in this slot.
Corrin - There are too many FE reps. Corrin seems to be universally hated amongst FE fans because of the quality of Fates generally, and Corrin being included in Smash before their game had even released still stings a bit. Weirdly, I quite like how Corrin plays compared to other FE reps, I don't know how overtuned they might be as a casual player though. That said, if other FE characters merely became costumes/variants of other characters and reduced the FE roster percentage, Corrin may not need face the chopping block.
Lucario/Greninja/Incineroar - Not ALL of them, but the problem with Pokémon reps is they always feel extremely flavour-of-the-month to tie in to the most recently released generation at the time of Smash's release. If you're a Pokémon from Gens 3, 5 or 8 you've just lost your shot at Smash stardom because of bad timing (at present, anyway). I was tempted to put Mewtwo here because I hate how they play and feel but even *I* think that'd be intentionally inflammatory. Plus they're a good series rep.
As sour as I was on Byleth's reveal being the last character in FP1, they at least do a better job of representing FE's weapon triangle system than any other FE rep in the game. Though the fact they weren't default female or the fact it wasn't Edelgard is kinda baffling given the distinct lack of female representation in Smash. People literally call the series Waifu Emblem and the only canonically female FE fighter in Smash is Lucina... something went horribly wrong there.
If any DLC fighter gets the cut, I'd put Plant in the composting heap. Unique playstyle but Mario has so much of the roster (rightly) locked down and Plant is just one too far for me. Plant over someone like Captain Toad or Waluigi seems off to me. And Plant's final smash always underwhelmed me too.
PLEASE BE KIND AND DON'T TAKE ANY OF THIS TO HEART TOO MUCH THESE ARE JUST MY POTENTIAL THOUGHTS IN ONE SCENARIO AND I DON'T WANNA BE DEALIN' WITH PEOPLE TAKING IT TOO SERIOUSLY.
Make Dark Samus, Falco, Daisy, Dr Mario, Lucina, Chrom, Dark Pit, Ken and Richter all frame data perfect costumes/variants of their respective counterparts. I feel like all of these characters having individual slots and occasionally impossibly small frame data changes merely contributes to roster bloat.
Even though Richter is better than Simon. But seriously regardless of your feelings on whether or not Pokémon or Fire Emblem has too much representation we can all agree that Dark Pit only takes up an entire slot on the roster because of Papa Sakurai's personal preferences.
The fact that costumes/complete cosmetic overhaul variants aren't a thing in Smash outside of a few characters like Bowser Jr. and Olimar blows my mind. People would pay good money for that on top of the RRP.
If you have to cut characters, my picks are:
Pichu - Pokémon is guilty of the same over-representation problem as FE, and Pichu just reeks of "well he was in Melee because he was new then". I can't suggest cutting FE characters without cutting Pokémon too.
I'd be tempted to put Jigglypuff for the same merit, simply being popular in Japan doesn't mean Jiggly ISN'T an outlier in terms of the Pokémon picked to represent the series. That said, Jiggs has unique moves and a creative playstyle so I don't think it'd be right to cut them.
Young Link - If it'd be at all possible to make Yink a frame perfect costume for Tink, I'd say do it. Otherwise, 3 Links is too many and there are plenty of other Zelda characters that'd be great replacements in this slot.
Corrin - There are too many FE reps. Corrin seems to be universally hated amongst FE fans because of the quality of Fates generally, and Corrin being included in Smash before their game had even released still stings a bit. Weirdly, I quite like how Corrin plays compared to other FE reps, I don't know how overtuned they might be as a casual player though. That said, if other FE characters merely became costumes/variants of other characters and reduced the FE roster percentage, Corrin may not need face the chopping block.
Lucario/Greninja/Incineroar - Not ALL of them, but the problem with Pokémon reps is they always feel extremely flavour-of-the-month to tie in to the most recently released generation at the time of Smash's release. If you're a Pokémon from Gens 3, 5 or 8 you've just lost your shot at Smash stardom because of bad timing (at present, anyway). I was tempted to put Mewtwo here because I hate how they play and feel but even *I* think that'd be intentionally inflammatory. Plus they're a good series rep.
As sour as I was on Byleth's reveal being the last character in FP1, they at least do a better job of representing FE's weapon triangle system than any other FE rep in the game. Though the fact they weren't default female or the fact it wasn't Edelgard is kinda baffling given the distinct lack of female representation in Smash. People literally call the series Waifu Emblem and the only canonically female FE fighter in Smash is Lucina... something went horribly wrong there.
If any DLC fighter gets the cut, I'd put Plant in the composting heap. Unique playstyle but Mario has so much of the roster (rightly) locked down and Plant is just one too far for me. Plant over someone like Captain Toad or Waluigi seems off to me. And Plant's final smash always underwhelmed me too.
PLEASE BE KIND AND DON'T TAKE ANY OF THIS TO HEART TOO MUCH THESE ARE JUST MY POTENTIAL THOUGHTS IN ONE SCENARIO AND I DON'T WANNA BE DEALIN' WITH PEOPLE TAKING IT TOO SERIOUSLY.
I'm with the "definitive edition" on the Switch successor. All DLC included. Improved models and animations, a handful more characters on top of the enormous roster. Cap the series at 100 fighters. Count all echo fighters as their own slot. Pile on a bunch more obvious echo fighters like Funky Kong.
Lucario's probably the one of the three I think deserves to stick around but it DOES become less relevant over time. It's just unavoidable.
I think they should possibly redo the roster to be more first party focused, there's still a lot of first party characters I think they could include.
If the roster was nuked of all but 3 Pokemon, it'd be Pikachu, Charizard and Lucario that survived
Lucario is one of the most heavily marketed and popular Pokemon around and always has been
That said, I do like Incineroar's goofy wrestling heel playstyle. Even if I think he's kinda trash as an actual fighter.
I think the problem with Ultimate is that it really has, in a weird way, over-delivered. There's a weird finality to it that people now don't wanna let go of understandably. The wider gaming history representation side of it was only really cemented for me with Ultimate. Before you got cool first party reveals and a few insane third party ones like Cloud, Sonic and Snake. I don't think at the time of those reveals people ever thought these characters would stick around in the series forever.
When Ultimate brought everyone back and expanded with even more crazy third party crossovers it's kinda warped the wider significance of Smash beyond anything it had been previously. Not complaining or saying I think it's a bad thing, but I don't think characters like Pichu were designed to or should stick around forever.
I think the problem with Ultimate is that it really has, in a weird way, over-delivered. There's a weird finality to it that people now don't wanna let go of understandably. The wider gaming history representation side of it was only really cemented for me with Ultimate. Before you got cool first party reveals and a few insane third party ones like Cloud, Sonic and Snake. I don't think at the time of those reveals people ever thought these characters would stick around in the series forever.
When Ultimate brought everyone back and expanded with even more crazy third party crossovers it's kinda warped the wider significance of Smash beyond anything it had been previously. Not complaining or saying I think it's a bad thing, but I don't think characters like Pichu were designed to or should stick around forever.
If we had a "regular" Smash next and certain characters were cut, I wonder if Plant would make it back
It's sort of a weird gimmicky bonus character whose not particularly popular
It's sort of a weird gimmicky bonus character whose not particularly popular
did you miss when Sakurai said they cut Trophies and anything related to them to make it possible for them to finish the game?
There is one thing that only Smash could pull off that I've always wanted them to do. Give us original characters based off of cut designs and cancelled games. Give me that cyborg Link design from BotW concept art as a character and have him go up against a pokemon that never made the cut.
Back when we thought Ultimate was going to be Smash 4 Remastered, I was advocating for Smash Switch to be a back-to-basics reset, cut the roster back to 36 (the original 12, 12 from Melee/Brawl/For, and 12 new characters), then begin overhauling the core gameplay. How, exactly, I don't know, I've never been as invested in fighting game mechanics as others, but essentially start a new franchise with the same core concepts (simple inputs, ring-outs instead of health bars, Nintendo crossover). Then do it all again, building up to an "Ultimate" roster.
It's likely impossible that they'll ever be able to top Ultimate, but no... I don't think they'll be in trouble.
They've clearly set up the expectation that Ultimate is the final big blowout, and they have a potential clean exit strategy for the next Smash: Simply revert back to exclusively featuring Nintendo IP, that way there's no hard feelings about what third-party characters did or didn't make the cut.
They've clearly set up the expectation that Ultimate is the final big blowout, and they have a potential clean exit strategy for the next Smash: Simply revert back to exclusively featuring Nintendo IP, that way there's no hard feelings about what third-party characters did or didn't make the cut.
100+ fighters, baby! Let's get it!
Geno: Honestly don't know how I feel about Geno's inclusion anymore. It's been a meme for so long and I have no personal attachment to the character or any idea if they'd even be a good inclusion.
Paper Mario: KING Inclusion Let's GET IT.
Dixie Kong: Yep.
Wolf Link & Midna: YEP.
Pig Ganon: This would be really cool.
Medusa: This or Magnus as long as we also kill Dark Pit in the process.
Susie: No strong feelings one way or the other.
Lyn: She seems cool as an AT and FE/Smash needs more femreps.
Krystal: Why DID this never happen? Because of the MS/Rare fallout?
Sceptile: Ew. (No shade just... not for me)
Isaac: People want him but I have no personal attachment.
Ring Athlete: If we can have WFT, we can have Ring Athlete.
Dr Eggman: A second Sonic rep only makes sense.
Arle: Eh.
Chun-Li: If this doesn't happen in FP2 something has gone horribly wrong.
Monster Hunter: Wouldn't be too jazzed but it's a huge franchise.
Ms Pac-Man: Still trying to wrap my head around why this wasn't a variant outfit or echo at all.
Nightmare: I think I'd rather see Tekken repped with Heihachi but SC makes sense too.
Lara Croft: I genuinely don't know how to feel whenever I see LC suggested. I want more female representation but I also kinda think old Lara's had her day and modern Lara would be a very odd fit. Maybe an original Smash take like Simon and Richter would be the best approach?
Master Chief: Still personally torn on whether I'd want Chief in Smash but it'd be very neat to have a primarily projectile focused fighter.
Crash: WOAH! I don't want Crash but can never pinpoint why.
Ryu Hayabusa: He's the last of the NES old guard and as long as he got a NES style design I'd be fine with it.
Shantae: They clearly have indies on the radar with the Sans and Cuphead costumes, and Shantae would fill the Indie rep slot and provide female representation with a cool and unique moveset, let's pray for Shantae.
I do not think we are getting another Smash until well into their next console. I do not see it happening for the next five years.
Some of the older characters definitely need a reboot. Their moves are so vanilla compared to the newer folks.
I'm thinking Sakurai retires from Smash and we get a reboot...
Two consoles from now. Switch II is gonna be Ultimate Deluxe like with what they did with MK8
Two consoles from now. Switch II is gonna be Ultimate Deluxe like with what they did with MK8
Krystal was considered as a potential playable character [in Brawl] during development, but was passed over in favor of Wolf, both because of time constraints and because Wolf's movement and animations would be more similar to Fox's and would require less development.
Krystal
Krystal is a character from the Star Fox series. A later addition to Team Star Fox, she also serves as a love interest to Fox McCloud.
Sakurai answers some (old) questions– about Brawl!
These questions were part of a two-part article that was published shortly after Brawl’s release, in the magazine Nintendo Dream, featuring a bunch of reader questions, which Sakurai answered…
sourcegaming.info
There are plenty of tournament legal stages in Smash U, but the competitive scene is extremely conservative and won't allow a ton of stages that don't have any glaring flaws like WarioWare, Mementos, and Castle Siege.
We could get some decent variety but no, Pokemon Stadium 2 until the end of time.
I think Smash would sell well no matter what they did.
So, with that said, I think they should cut 60% to 70% of the roster, or even leave just the roster of Smash 64, and then fill the rest game with some of the myriad of characters they made Spirits.
So, with that said, I think they should cut 60% to 70% of the roster, or even leave just the roster of Smash 64, and then fill the rest game with some of the myriad of characters they made Spirits.
Krystal was considered as a potential playable character during development, but was passed over in favor of Wolf, both because of time constraints and because Wolf's movement and animations would be more similar to Fox's and would require less development.
Krystal
Krystal is a character from the Star Fox series. A later addition to Team Star Fox, she also serves as a love interest to Fox McCloud.www.ssbwiki.com
Sakurai answers some (old) questions– about Brawl!
These questions were part of a two-part article that was published shortly after Brawl’s release, in the magazine Nintendo Dream, featuring a bunch of reader questions, which Sakurai answered…
Trying to process that Sakurai "women are too hard to animate'd" us 12 years ago and I only just learned about it.
[I know this is different but the fact we didn't get Krystal over Wolf hurts]
I don't quite agree with the argument around the financial viability of third party characters as I find it hard to believe Nintendo are paying for the IP in all of those cases.
Remember Smash outsells a lot of the franchises those characters come from.
If I could get my franchise character on the smash roaster the exposure is payment enough. For example I'd be surprised if Nintendo had to pay for Banjo.
Remember Smash outsells a lot of the franchises those characters come from.
If I could get my franchise character on the smash roaster the exposure is payment enough. For example I'd be surprised if Nintendo had to pay for Banjo.
There's a legal struggle for the rights to Ms. Pac-Man between Bamco and AtGames.
AtGames, sued by Ms. Pac-Man’s owner, buys up royalty rights to the icon
Strange tale of an arcade legend’s ownership takes another turn
www.polygon.com
If anything how well the game sales would make companies want more. Dlc is probably easier since the 3rd party up owner can get a percentage. But the people in the base game likely required some kind of upfront payment or a percentage.
There's a legal struggle for the rights to Ms. Pac-Man between Bamco and AtGames.
AtGames, sued by Ms. Pac-Man’s owner, buys up royalty rights to the icon
Strange tale of an arcade legend’s ownership takes another turn
Today has been a learning experience
When next gen comes they should just port Ultimate and keep updating it. Either that or a severely cut down roster with dramatic gameplay changes.
No smart business person is gonna be fine with payment in "exposure"
Indeed. AtGames is a piece of shit, though, and even though they have royalty rights now, they're completely useless because Namco won't let them make anything with Ms. Pac-Man. This sadly also means we won't see Ms. Pac-Man from Namco either for a while...
Today has been a learning experience
Brawl had development issues and Wolf was easier to make than Krystal because he could be built off Fox