After purchasing a newer TV, I now agree that HDR is incredible. [Poll inside!]

[CorpseLight]

I recently purchased a 2020 TV, a Samsung Series 9 w/HDR10 implementation, and an Xbox Series X. Previously, I only had an HDR8 capable TV with a PS4Pro. Now, take a look at these next 2 images, and see if you can spot which one has HDR and which one doesn't; Both were taken on the same TV, at 4K resolution, just one with the HDR turned off.

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Can you tell the difference? It may be harder to fully see the details with compression, but that actually ties into the 2nd part of what I wanted to talk about.

HDR is difficult to really grasp and understand the differences just by looking at screenshots and Youtube / Twitch clips. There's the issue of compression, and theres also the issue of potentially not viewing the media at its source resolution.

THEN, there's also the issue of the TV itself not being properly calibrated for the best HDR picture, or just the TV not having great HDR implementation at the hardware level. The TV I bought isnt even that amazing for HDR, it is not an OLED and is edge-lit; but I did not want to spend over $2000. I spent a TON of time tweaking and messing with settings to get the absolute best brightness and contrast ratio I could possibly get without it looking too dim or washed out.

But thats not all! HDR also depends on the software itself being optimized for HDR viewing. Games like Assassins Creed :Odyssey, which I used for the above samples, luckily has excellent HDR implentation. However, other games have such bad HDR visuals you are better off just turning HDR off at a per game basis. As an example, Destiny 2 looks incredibly dark no matter what I try with it.

Poll Answer! -- The 2nd photo is HDR.

 

[Dukie85]

Yeah, I just bought a Vizio P Series Quantum and it's a night and day difference between its HDR and my Hisense H8F. The Vizio just looks better in every way. Not to mention that I'm a 120Hz believer now as well.

 

[Deleted member 16908]

The second one is HDR on. Videos and captures of HDR gameplay always look washed out unless viewed on an HDR display. Giant Bomb had this problem with their Dirt 5 quick look:

 

[ascii42]

A non HDR display isn't going to display HDR images very well. My guess would be that the second one is HDR because the sun highlight isn't as blown out.

 

[Sems4arsenal]

HDR is definitely a decent upgrade.

Thing is, it needs to be implemented properly and not all devs bother.

 

[nDesh]

None of those look like hdr to me.

HDR has the contrast of the first picture and not loss of detail like the second picture

 

[Yappa]

Has to be the 2nd one due to the sun details. Ppl not well versed with HDR would probably say the 1st pic stating more pop as reason.

 

[Deleted member 24021]

The second one is HDR because that's how HDR content looks on my SDR monitor. But yeah, HDR does look amazing when properly calibrated.

 

[StrappingYoungLance]

Getting a new TV last year HDR felt like a revelation.

 

[JigglesBunny]

HDR is great when developers bother to implement it well. For example, a team like Treyarch clearly have no idea how to do HDR properly, while Infinity Ward have nailed it.

 

[Xtortion]

HDR is godlike. Definitely worth investing in a TV that can present it well.

 

[jokkir]

I want to see how real HDR looks like. I have a TV capable of HDR but apparently it doesn't get bright enough to see proper HDR but the TV is plenty bright especially at night so I have no idea what I'm missing cause I don't want to be even more blinded at night

 

[Fjordson]

HDR is incredible with 4K blu-rays, but for some reason I've never been able to get it looking right with games. Stuff just looks either too dark or washed out.

 

[LetsEatSnacks]

I guess I still don't get the "wow" factor with HDR. I bought an x900h this year which is my first tv to support HDR and Dolby Vision. While I definitely see a difference between HDR and non-HDR, I guess it just never really impresses me. I've done all of the calibrations and I know my TV isn't the best in its class for HDR but I thought all of the hype behind it would have left a bit more of an impression regardless of the aforementioned caveats. I've looked at OLEDs in person with HDR and that too never really did much for me. It just feels like bright things are really bright (Demon's Souls nearly burned my eyes out with the mining level sun) but I don't get much more out of it. I seem to be in the minority on this but I guess I just had high hopes after reading what people said about how much better it looks in person.

 

[100mega]

The difference HDR makes was proven to me when I played the FFVIIR demo, which doesn't have HDR and then played the final release with HDR. Makes all the difference in the world.

 

[digitalrelic]

Trying to compare two non-HDR screenshots and have everyone guess, from their non-HDR displays, which image comes from an HDR source, makes absolutely no sense. Like, not at all.

But yeah HDR is incredible.

 

[Hero_of_the_Day]

Judging an HDR picture on a non-HDR device is funny stuff.

 

[Pancho]

Wish I could say the same thing. My tv is a budget Samsung TV that is "supposedly" HDR. But it doesn't have the capability to display it well so it looks really bad

 

[Qassim]

It definitely depends on the content and implementation. It can look fantastic, but often doesn't look particularly standout either.

For video - A Perfect Planet (BBC) in HDR looks absolutely astonishing to my eye.

 

[notusingthis]

As an example, Destiny 2 looks incredibly dark no matter what I try with it.

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something's not right there, try to play around with the settings some more. D2 has some of the best hdr out there.

 

[Jonnax]

This is like saying "check out how good my camera is!" By taking a photo of monitor displaying the picture.

 

[EvilBoris]

It perfectly illustrates what a pain in the arse it is to demo HDR or illustrate how it feels different.

 

[CorpseLight]

Trying to compare two non-HDR screenshots and have everyone guess, from their non-HDR displays, which image comes from an HDR source, makes absolutely no sense. Like, not at all.

But yeah HDR is incredible.

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Judging an HDR picture on a non-HDR device is funny stuff.

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This is like saying "check out how good my camera is!" By taking a photo of monitor displaying the picture.

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To be fair, I talked about all this in the post and agree with you.

 

[Samiya]

it's hit or miss to me.

I saw someone who implemented HDR into Clone Wars and it gave everything a yellow tint and washed out a lot of colors. Even when played on a LG CX. Non-HDR was clearly superior to me no matter what in this particular case.

 

[dgrdsv]

Poll Answer! -- The 2nd photo is HDR.

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It's pretty amazing that most people voted for the 1st one.
It is really simple to see which image is HDR on an SDR display - the one which doesn't look correct would be HDR.
The first one do look better on an SDR display though since it is actually properly tone mapped into the SDR color space.
A better comparison would be to take two photos of the same scene in SDR and HDR modes at the same fixed camera settings. It would clip the HDR image into SDR color space when saving the photo and "emulate" some of HDR benefits this way.

 

[ss_lemonade]

This is like saying "check out how good my camera is!" By taking a photo of monitor displaying the picture.

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These seem to be actual screenshots.

I feel like taking a picture of your TV with SDR vs HDR may produce a better comparison though?

For example, SDR vs HDR, same settings on my PC:

Can't remember why the HDR shot ends up being more vibrant though (is it because of high color gamut?). Similar case with my PS4

 

[BasilZero]

Lol

I am new to HDR but...the first screen's colors look better but the lighting is a bit bad.

The second one has better lighting I think but less detail ...or not?

 

[JudgmentJay]

Trying to compare two non-HDR screenshots and have everyone guess, from their non-HDR displays, which image comes from an HDR source, makes absolutely no sense. Like, not at all.

But yeah HDR is incredible.

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You don't need an HDR display to see which one of these is HDR. It's very obvious. Though going by the poll results maybe it's not.

 

[Apath]

.

 

[Jonnax]

To be fair, I talked about all this in the post and agree with you.

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Aha I came off a bit rude.

One of things with HDR is tone mapping.
When you're displaying something in SDR there's a different tone map curve.
So the photo of an SDR screen should look better than a photo of a HDR screen which the camera converts to SDR.

Firefox and Chrome have support for a file format called AVIF and HEIF.
These containers can hold HDR images but I'm unsure if the browser can display them correctly.

 

[VariantX]

Think its image #2, like theres way more color, but its not like I can tell since im looking at it on my PC monitor, not my tv. Its like the areas that are black in the first image actually more color in the second image so im going with #2.

 

[SwiftSweeper]

Agreed, HDR is amazing. I have Vizio P series, which can hit 1,000 - 1,200 Nits, and I am tempted to get Vizio P Series Quantum X, which can hit 2,000 Nits, but I might wait until we have affordable displays that can hit 4,000 Nits. The news of brighter OLEDs at CES are also exciting since current OLEDs sadly top out at 800 Nits as far as I know. There are also micro LEDs tvs, which look promising too.

 

[Lowrys]

I'd love a TV with great HDR but it seems that's only available on the expensive models, and I don't want to buy an expensive model until HDMI 2.1 is properly bedded in and we have 2.1 capable AVRs.

So until then, I'm stuck with either sticking with my 7yo Samsung 1080p set, or buying a budget 4K TV to enjoy 4K for the time being.

Unless someone can recommend an affordable good HDR TV in the UK, but outside the Sony XH90 (which is buggy and has a blurry image at 120hz) I don't think there are any.

 

[ChoklitCow]

These threads are always interesting to me, because you see a lot of folks blown away by the HDR implementation on their sets, and others that are meh. Sadly, all sides seem to speak in absolutes when it comes to why __ is right or wrong in regards to their opinion. But in reality, there are a ton of factors playing into people's feelings and there is no one-size-fits all answer such as "you just have a bad tv", "your just don't have your tv set up correctly", "your overall tech upgrade was more impactful than HDR", etc. So it somewhat gets under my skin when there are immediate drivebys stating some of the stuff above, but its also understandable given so many of these issues are common.

TV/monitor obviously matters. I have a 2018 TCL 6 lcd and a CX oled. TCL has surprisingly good HDR implementation for a tv in it's price range, particularly when it comes to brightness. CX's OLED panel is a whole new world in comparing sets, even with its lower brightness. Lot of folks when upgrading sets have a lot more at play than just a new HDR setting which is impacting their feelings towards the new tech, but its also not the only reason they are seeing the increased visual performance and satisfaction from an HDR image.

Game implementation/hardware implementation/application matters. You can go on a pretty long tangent between tone mapping, in-game settings, and hgig. But there are plenty of insightful threads on this forum and videos on Youtube to help with that. Needless to say, this isn't a one-size-fits-all answer. And given each game is different, there are going to be some growing pains. For example, I found Miles Morales amazing on my TCL, however I struggled in some dark areas. Black details were there, I just couldn't see them making the game too dark. That does not exist with the CX, but it is also in part to do with the ability to utilize hgig and rgb rather than ycbcr and standard tone mapping, oled vs lcd pixels and blacks (and the tcl having some black clouding), etc. To say my TCL is "bad at HDR" would be inaccurate, and I see that said wayyy to much on this forum. To say it was improperly setup could also be inaccurate. But given a handful of different variables ranging from minor to quite large, it is outperformed in that particular game in particular circumstances (as well as others, but this is just a specific example).

Where your screen is located is huge as well. Any settings you are looking at are almost always going to be using the reference of a dark room. If you are in a fairly bright room, you have to adjust your settings beyond the random settings you are finding online (not to mention each panel can vary widely depending on make and model and copying settings might not be a smart idea). It's brought up a lot and once again can be frustrating when people blame it on room lighting consistently, however it is probably one of the more common things I've found in helping friends with their systems. You're going to lose details in a bright room. Its just picking and choosing what is best for you in those situations.

I'm definitely on the "HDR is awesome" train and am very much looking forward to a reasonable gaming monitor to eventually hit the market so I can enjoy HDR on the PC (I might have missed it but this years CES once again left me wanting). For me, its not even the highs and lows but more the elimination of so much of the banding we have grown accustomed to over the years. The recommended implementation specs are out there and the tech is getting more solidified. You'll start to see this being a lot more "consumer friendly" than it currently is in the very near future.

 

[dgrdsv]

Can't remember why the HDR shot ends up being more vibrant though (is it because of high color gamut?).

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Higher peak brightness means that colors are more saturated by default since human's eye judge colors by their brightness - everything is grey in the dark.
(That's not really true on OLEDs though since beyond some level they produce brightness with a white subpixel which has no effect on the actual brightness of the color. There are many quirks in modern HDR tech which lead to very different results on different h/w and s/w so many people have completely different experience with it.)

 

[J_ToSaveTheDay]

I feel like using SDR to demonstrate HDR in the fashion found in the OP is potentially misleading.

HDR is indeed awesome, Assassin's Creed Odyssey in particular is pretty great HDR implementation, but that image does it no favors. I have an HDR TV and voted #1 because the contrast looked more appropriate but SDR trying to handle HDR (as in OP) isn't correct.

 

[DC5remy]

2nd looks a little washed out to me

 

[I Like Ginger Cats:3]

HDR is by far the biggest improvement on TV's in years. 4K is nothing compared to it. In games with HDR I always first look at the sky / sun, as stupid as it may be.

It's just that so many TV's aimed at average consumers (by lack of better expression) are doing such a bad job at it that it still feels like some 'nerdy hardcore thing'. Good HDR has way more impact than resolution. I mean, I have a perfectly capable set for HDR (XF90) and I thought it was great until I finally saw it on OLED a week ago and i'm like, meh, 'now my set sucks' while it doesn't suck. It just sucks compared to OLED but sticks out way above many other FALD tv's for it's price range. I think the TV market is just a mess.

But in general it's still a mess to configure often and the impact of HDR is just hard to show on SDR displays. You can explain all you want to someone who doesn't know what HDR is (*kuch* my brother), even try to show shots of it and all, but it has to be experienced and it often goes wrong there. Every TV nowadays has HDR but on a budget it often degrades the image, which is a bit shitty.

 

[digitalrelic]

You don't need an HDR display to see which one of these is HDR. It's very obvious. Though going by the poll results maybe it's not.

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It's not obvious, because you're not getting high dynamic range in either image. You literally can't see HDR in either of the photos. The second one just has raised blacks and less blown out whites. Doesn't show the actual benefits of HDR.

 

[Tygre]

Poll Answer! -- The 2nd photo is HDR.

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Huh. Just looks kinda washed out and crappy compared to the 1st pic.

 

[JudgmentJay]

It's not obvious, because you're not getting high dynamic range in either image. You literally can't see HDR in either of the photos. The second one just has raised blacks and less blown out whites. Doesn't show the actual benefits of HDR.

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It's obvious if you compare the sun in the two pictures.

 

[digitalrelic]

It's obvious if you compare the sun in the two pictures.

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It's not obvious but in cases like this - always look at the sun or clouds. Even on SDR there should be *some* indication of it being less uhhh.... Well, how do you explain it? Guess less bloomy / slightly detailed more around it.

Clouds, sun, sky are always good things to look at in HDR stuff. Often details in clouds / sun are so much clearer. God, this makes no sense typing out, haha.

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The sun isn't blown out, but that doesn't make it obvious unless you're good at recognizing what an HDR image looks like in SDR (which is not what an HDR image actually looks like).

Huh. Just looks kinda washed out and crappy compared to the 1st pic.

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.... and this is why these comparisons don't make any sense. A bunch of people will walk away from this thread going "Huh, HDR looks kinda washed out and crappy" WHEN IN REALITY NEITHER IMAGE LOOKS ANYTHING LIKE AN ACTUAL HDR IMAGE.

 

[CorpseLight]

This thread has turned into a sort of meta-commentary on how difficult it is to explain and convey HDR without seeing it in person.

 

[I Like Ginger Cats:3]

It's not obvious, because you're not getting high dynamic range in either image. You literally can't see HDR in either of the photos. The second one just has raised blacks and less blown out whites. Doesn't show the actual benefits of HDR.

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It's not obvious but in cases like this - always look at the sun or clouds. Even on SDR there should be *some* indication of it being less uhhh.... Well, how do you explain it? Guess less bloomy / slightly detailed more around it.

Clouds, sun, sky are always good things to look at in HDR stuff. Often details in clouds / sun are so much clearer. God, this makes no sense typing out, haha.

 

[JudgmentJay]

The sun isn't blown out, but that doesn't make it obvious unless you're good at recognizing what an HDR image looks like in SDR (which is not what an HDR image actually looks like).

.... and this is why these comparisons don't make any sense. A bunch of people will walk away from this thread going "Huh, HDR looks kinda washed out and crappy" WHEN IN REALITY NEITHER IMAGE LOOKS ANYTHING LIKE ANY ACTUAL HDR IMAGE.

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I'm confused, are you saying that the sun WOULD be blown out like the first image if you were playing the game on an HDR display? Because that is not correct. It would look exactly the same, only brighter (and more saturated, etc). One of the biggest benefits of HDR is more detail in shadows and highlights. So it should be obvious if you know the benefits of HDR beyond "More brightness and contrast!"

I agree that the comparison in the OP is pretty pointless though since as you said neither image looks like actual HDR.

 

[Community Forum]

Love HDR. My current set has a peak brightness of around 1000 nits, and I was looking at a deal on a Vizio just now that has peak brightness of 3000 nits and now I want to upgrade but that would be silly. However, 2000 more nits!

 

[ToughSoundingName]

HDR as is, while technically better and correct, never gives me the pop I'm used to. I put HDR with a little help from my Sony's other color settings though and it's def better (900e). Don't be afraid to lose accuracy to preference, we're not all cinematographers

 

[CrichtonKicks]

OP you really shouldn't have posted the pictures. It's impossible to demonstrate an HDR on a non-HDR display (which you know) so all it does it potentially confuse people on the benefits of HDR. They are going to look at the comparison, notice the HDR picture is washed out, and decide that HDR isn't worth the upgrade.

 

[Oliver James]

I thought the first photo was the HDR one, whilst thinking the second one has better visuals

 

[Speevy]

It always makes my dark games super dark.

I need to change my settings.