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Francesco

Member
Nov 22, 2017
2,521
Skyrim VR is an experience to behold.
Having a full VR world to explore is a feast for your senses.
You notice the height of the trees, the distant towns in the horizon, the snowflakes falling around you.

All the wonkiness of a 7 year old Bethesda game fade in the background as you are enveloped in a massive and coherent world.
The interiors are imposing and fascinating and, since the last update, standing in front of NPCs that actually look like humans increases the sense of presence.

The same can be said for plenty of other VR games, but the impact of a whole region to explore in VR is unparalleled.

Playing flat games in first person seems like such wasted potential.
In VR you notice things you never would on your television.
A lot of the work put into environments and animations get lost in the mix. On a tv, everything is combined to make for a game that feels right. Graphics that look great.
But actually being there is stupidly more interesting.

Playing something like Red Dead Redemption 2 or anything else in flat first person, after having experienced something as stiff as Skyrim work really well, just feels like a waste.
I can't imagine how many little animations, interactions and beautiful places I have just passed by, unaware of the work that was put into it.
 

Deleted member 2791

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
19,054
No they aren't, because the VR userbase is so small and software sales are so low that they can't justify making big FPS titles only for them.
It is not a "waste of resources" of "waste of work" when it wouldn't have existed at all otherwise.
 

Bomblord

Self-requested ban
Banned
Jan 11, 2018
6,390
I agree most well crafted VR room scale games put any non-vr games to shame in terms of immeraion. But on another note I noticed you mentioned "since the last update" in regards to Skyrim VR. Last time I played it everything look super muddy (not like low res but like everything was running at its lowest LOD) and characters seemed to be 7 foot tall across the board also seemed to lack depth for some weird reason. Any of that fixed in that update?
 
OP
OP
Francesco

Francesco

Member
Nov 22, 2017
2,521
I agree most well crafted VR room scale games put anything that isn't to shame. But on another note I noticed you mentioned "since the last update". Last time I played it everything look super muddy (not like low res but like everything was running at its lowest LOD) and characters seemed to be 7 foot tall across the board also seemed to lack depth for some weird reason. Any of that fixed in that update?
Playing it on a pro, the issues you're talking about have all been fixed. The game has gotten a surprising amount of post-launch support.
 

ghostcrew

The Shrouded Ghost
Administrator
Oct 27, 2017
30,364
I've been a really heavy PCVR user since the DK1 (I use an Oculus CV1 with three cameras now) and, while I agree that the immersion of a greatly realised VR FPS is truly something else, I also struggle to say that flat games feel like 'wasted potential' or 'waste of work'.

I've had some of most immersive experiences in first person VR games. But I'm also well aware of the limitations. Fallout 4 VR felt amazing with it's scale etc until I had to move with an analogue stick and then couldn't pick anything up with my hands. I was instantly taken out and it just felt like playing a flat game with a 3D screen stuck to my face. Compare that to made-for-VR experiences like Robo Recall, Job Simulator or Lone Echo and it's far away a different kettle of fish. But those games are, themselves, limited by the technology. You're not, yet, getting a game with the scope of RDR2 in VR with the kind of interaction we (should) expect from VR.

But, yeah, VR can be more immersive. I just think that, equally, using the power of your computer/console to push immersive flat worlds instead of using that for the required framerate/comfort level required can provide equally impressive results.
 

collige

Member
Oct 31, 2017
12,772
I have similar feelings, but it goes for AAA games as a whole, no just FPSes. That's not to say that every game should be a VR game or anything, but I think that having a VR model viewer or exploration mode like the discovery mode in Assassin's Creed would go a long way to help preserve and appreciate the effort that went into making the assets for games.
 

Cats

Member
Oct 27, 2017
2,929
Something so simple as a nice normal map can be appreciated so much more in VR. I really wish it was more popular.
 

marrec

Banned
Oct 26, 2017
6,775
How is Skyrim VR a feast for your senses when you're still just getting visual input.

It could be a feast for your sense, but not senses.

Also, first person games in VR can be fun, but they aren't the world-changing experience you're describing.

There is something to be said for experiencing these game worlds in VR tho, even badly implemented VR worlds.
 

Deleted member 8408

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 26, 2017
6,648
I hate playing racing games without VR now.

It's hard to explain but with a wheel setup it literally feels like you are in the car. Playing iRacing against a full grid of real opponents in VR is a sight to behold.
 

ghostcrew

The Shrouded Ghost
Administrator
Oct 27, 2017
30,364
I hate playing racing games without VR now.

It's hard to explain but with a wheel setup it literally feels like you are in the car. Playing iRacing against a full grid of real opponents in VR is a sight to behold.

Yeah, racing games feel GREAT in VR. I think anything with a 'cockpit' that doesn't rely on artificial locomotion just feels totally immersive.
 

KalBalboa

Member
Oct 30, 2017
7,938
Massachusetts
Also, first person games in VR can be fun, but they aren't the world-changing experience you're describing.

There is something to be said for experiencing these game worlds in VR tho, even badly implemented VR worlds.

I think this is subjective. VR did wonders for me when it came to first person gaming. Resident Evil 7 is 10x more immersive in PSVR thanks to the 1:1 tracking of my head in the environments, not to mention all the depth cues my two eyes can detect versus a single flat screen.
 

sickvisionz

Member
Jan 19, 2018
125
I've never played one but aren't most of them literally a "flat game" but now your head is the right stick? Like Skyrim VR... It's not like Sword Art Online or some 1:1 movement/motion type of thing, right? It's still same old Skyrim. Like I can't start pop-locking in my living room and now the NPC are like what interesting dancing you're doing. It's still gonna be the same tired lines about arrows in the knees, right?
 

Betty

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
17,604
Yeah, you'll feel that way for a while i'm afraid but eventually you'll be able to enjoy 2D like you did before.
 

ShinUltramanJ

Member
Oct 27, 2017
12,950
I've never played one but aren't most of them literally a "flat game" but now your head is the right stick? Like Skyrim VR... It's not like Sword Art Online or some 1:1 movement/motion type of thing, right? It's still same old Skyrim. Like I can't start pop-locking in my living room and now the NPC are like what interesting dancing you're doing. It's still gonna be the same tired lines about arrows in the knees, right?

I haven't played Skyrim VR, and videos won't convey what it's truly like to experience.
But VR is like being there. You're not staring at a flat image. You're literally in the game's world, where characters are life size.
 

Akalance

Member
Oct 27, 2017
652
Philadelphia
Wait... non-VR games are referred to as 'flat games'? D:

I read the OP like

e5e29239-a786-431d-b285-3e4640f6c20b.png
 

Bomblord

Self-requested ban
Banned
Jan 11, 2018
6,390
I've never played one but aren't most of them literally a "flat game" but now your head is the right stick? Like Skyrim VR... It's not like Sword Art Online or some 1:1 movement/motion type of thing, right? It's still same old Skyrim. Like I can't start pop-locking in my living room and now the NPC are like what interesting dancing you're doing. It's still gonna be the same tired lines about arrows in the knees, right?

It's a heck of a lot more than "your head is the right stick" every subtle movement of your head and hands is accurately and 1:1 (down to sub millimeter accuracy on the Vive) reflected in a 3D stereoscopic gameworld that engulfs the entirety of your field of vision (well there's black space but it's blocked out). If you walk to the left you are walking to the left in the game world. If you turn around while swinging a sword behind you it'll hit the enemy behind you.
 

ghostcrew

The Shrouded Ghost
Administrator
Oct 27, 2017
30,364
I've never played one but aren't most of them literally a "flat game" but now your head is the right stick? Like Skyrim VR... It's not like Sword Art Online or some 1:1 movement/motion type of thing, right? It's still same old Skyrim. Like I can't start pop-locking in my living room and now the NPC are like what interesting dancing you're doing. It's still gonna be the same tired lines about arrows in the knees, right?

I kinda covered this in my post above but it varies by game. Yes, some games are just flat games 3D visuals and head/maybe hand tracking. Skyrim and Fallout are this. Resident Evil 7 is this. With Fallout 4 you're looking at things and clicking on them and going through an inventory exactly how you would playing normally on your monitor. But then other experiences that are built from the ground up for VR; your Job Simulators and your Lone Echos and your Robo Recalls etc. They're completely immersive because that 1:1 hand tracking allows your to pick things up like you would expect to. In SUPERHOT VR I can reach out with one hand and grab an axe out of thin air while looking in the opposite direction to grab a gun off of a table. I'm literally, IRL, reaching out with my hand and grabbing (with my real fingers) and it's all working 1:1 in game and everything is to correct scale and the distances are correct. When I'm wearing my Oculus headset you could throw a Touch controller to me and I could grab it out of the air while my face is covered by a screen because it's on my screen exactly where it is in real life. That's a world away from looking at something in Fallout and clicking a button to make it hover in front of your face where you can turn it with an analogue stick. There is immersion but, for me, it requires full tracking. Face, hands, body.
 

fracas

Member
Oct 27, 2017
4,649
Once we get full-fledged VR – full room scale, extremely comfortable and ergonomic wireless HMDs with lifelike resolution, perfect 1:1 tracking, etc – I can't imagine playing shooters any other way.

But that's a loooong way away. I'm talking indistinguishable from real life kind of experiences, likely not in my lifetime.
 

Kaiser Swayze

Member
Oct 30, 2017
1,615
If I could play Red Dead 2 in VR, I'd be utterly lost to this world. Especially if I could have "hands" like in Skyrim. I couldn't imagine what kind of computing power it would take to make that happen.
 

Deleted member 21709

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 28, 2017
23,310
I've never played one but aren't most of them literally a "flat game" but now your head is the right stick? Like Skyrim VR... It's not like Sword Art Online or some 1:1 movement/motion type of thing, right? It's still same old Skyrim. Like I can't start pop-locking in my living room and now the NPC are like what interesting dancing you're doing. It's still gonna be the same tired lines about arrows in the knees, right?

You're in for a treat!

And you can definitely do weird dancing in Rec Room, and hear other players comment on it.
 

Crayon

Member
Oct 26, 2017
15,580
I agree they feel wierd to play flat. Even with the basic functionality of the psvr on a plain ps4, i feel the only thing im wanting for is a lighter headset after a few hours. Its so amazing to llay skyrim again. It feels like the ultimate way to play. To be 'in there'.

And wipeout in cockpit view... whew. Actually any racing game on a flat screen is the most dramatic letdown now. When i drive irl i move my head alot an being able to do that in a game is like finally being freed.
 

EchoSmoker

Member
Jan 29, 2018
928
I still get consumed by flat/pancake games pretty easily even after spending lots of time in VR. Seated games really shine though. I can't play Wipeout without VR anymore. Being able to judge the distance of upcoming bends and turns in 3D space really helps.
 

the-pi-guy

Member
Oct 29, 2017
6,276
How is Skyrim VR a feast for your senses when you're still just getting visual input.

It could be a feast for your sense, but not senses.

Also, first person games in VR can be fun, but they aren't the world-changing experience you're describing.

There is something to be said for experiencing these game worlds in VR tho, even badly implemented VR worlds.

Still have 3D audio.

I've never played one but aren't most of them literally a "flat game" but now your head is the right stick? Like Skyrim VR... It's not like Sword Art Online or some 1:1 movement/motion type of thing, right? It's still same old Skyrim. Like I can't start pop-locking in my living room and now the NPC are like what interesting dancing you're doing. It's still gonna be the same tired lines about arrows in the knees, right?
1:1 motion with hands. So basically sword fighting, archery, magic with each hand, etc. Not the best it could be, but it's decent.
 

Pargon

Member
Oct 27, 2017
12,020
This is why I miss 3DTVs—which only started to get good with OLED—and would have preferred that the Switch was a true successor to the 3DS with a 480p3D display instead of 720p2D.
3D videos/movies were mostly worthless in my opinion—though I might reconsider after seeing them in VR—but depth adds so much to games.
3DTVs are like a window into another world, while VR puts you in it. I don't always want to be wearing a VR headset just to relax and play some games though, which is why I wish that high-end 3DTVs were still around.
 

Terminus

Banned
Oct 30, 2017
1,874
For slow, grounded games... maybe. But I can't imagine ever playing something as frenetic as, say, Doom Eternal in VR without filling my living room with barf. And I'd rather experiences like that continue to exist (Doom, not the barfing).
 

no1

Attempted to circumvent ban with alt account
Banned
Apr 27, 2018
954
How many mods are usable in the VR PC version now?
Anything on Skyrim Special Edition, and the Vortex (NMM Replacement by them) supports it fully.
Wait... non-VR games are referred to as 'flat games'? D:
Well that or desktop games.
Yeah, you'll feel that way for a while i'm afraid but eventually you'll be able to enjoy 2D like you did before.
I mean when is eventually? Been using VR for well over 1000 hours and the feeling hasn't faded. VR games just feel better.
 

collige

Member
Oct 31, 2017
12,772
For slow, grounded games... maybe. But I can't imagine ever playing something as frenetic as, say, Doom Eternal in VR without filling my living room with barf.
Doom VFR worked very well (on the Vive at least, can't speak for the PSVR version), so I wouldn't be surprised if there was a VR version of Doom Eternal.
 

pswii60

Member
Oct 27, 2017
26,673
The Milky Way
This is why I miss 3DTVs—which only started to get good with OLED—and would have preferred that the Switch was a true successor to the 3DS with a 480p3D display instead of 720p2D.
3D videos/movies were mostly worthless in my opinion—though I might reconsider after seeing them in VR—but depth adds so much to games.
3DTVs are like a window into another world, while VR puts you in it. I don't always want to be wearing a VR headset just to relax and play some games though, which is why I wish that high-end 3DTVs were still around.
3D is phenomenal on an OLED. None of that active-3D battery operated flickering 3D glasses nonsense, nor the half-resolution nonsense of non-active LCD 3D. And it just looks great, no cross-talk and basically what you would expect at a decent cinema.

Sadly though, that all ended with the LG series 6 OLEDs and I'm clinging on to my C6 now for dear life. The few PS4 3D games that do exist are wonderful, Trine 2 in particular.
 

Crayon

Member
Oct 26, 2017
15,580
I've never played one but aren't most of them literally a "flat game" but now your head is the right stick? Like Skyrim VR... It's not like Sword Art Online or some 1:1 movement/motion type of thing, right? It's still same old Skyrim. Like I can't start pop-locking in my living room and now the NPC are like what interesting dancing you're doing. It's still gonna be the same tired lines about arrows in the knees, right?

Can go either way. It will depend on a lot of things. Skyrim can definitely feel like the same tired game with weak vr support. On the other hand, if you're in the mood and get kind of into it -get the imagination going- it can feel like a whole new world. Worth a shot.

Playing in vr with a controller is comfy and easy but getting used to the moves (a bit tricky to learn) helps take it to the next level. Strangely, i found playing while standing boosts the immersion even further.
 

DarthBuzzard

Banned
Jul 17, 2018
5,122
I've said it before and I'll say it again. Roughly 10 years from now, most FPS games will be VR, and the main FPS franchises will be VR franchises, including your CoDs and your Battlefields.

VR will continuously evolve at an exponential rate, whereas the traditional FPS effectively stagnates. With the rate of progress and where things are going, an FPS in 10 years would be practically something at the level of Ready Player One. Photorealistic graphics, full body avatars indistinguishable from humans, haptic gloves, lifelike 3d audio, and more. Essentially too much to resist.

Once we get full-fledged VR – full room scale, extremely comfortable and ergonomic wireless HMDs with lifelike resolution, perfect 1:1 tracking, etc – I can't imagine playing shooters any other way.

But that's a loooong way away. I'm talking indistinguishable from real life kind of experiences, likely not in my lifetime.
That's literally 10 years, 15 years tops.
 
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Vipu

Banned
Oct 26, 2017
2,276
So you mean the same way that Switch is waste?
Sure VR would be nice to have on everything but hardware is the limit.
Also its not gonna work in every single FPS game.
 

Alucardx23

Member
Nov 8, 2017
4,713
Skyrim VR is an experience to behold.
Having a full VR world to explore is a feast for your senses.
You notice the height of the trees, the distant towns in the horizon, the snowflakes falling around you.

All the wonkiness of a 7 year old Bethesda game fade in the background as you are enveloped in a massive and coherent world.
The interiors are imposing and fascinating and, since the last update, standing in front of NPCs that actually look like humans increases the sense of presence.

The same can be said for plenty of other VR games, but the impact of a whole region to explore in VR is unparalleled.

Playing flat games in first person seems like such wasted potential.
In VR you notice things you never would on your television.
A lot of the work put into environments and animations get lost in the mix. On a tv, everything is combined to make for a game that feels right. Graphics that look great.
But actually being there is stupidly more interesting.

Playing something like Red Dead Redemption 2 or anything else in flat first person, after having experienced something as stiff as Skyrim work really well, just feels like a waste.
I can't imagine how many little animations, interactions and beautiful places I have just passed by, unaware of the work that was put into it.

After playing VR games you definitely start to compare how easy is to get immersed in them compared to flat games. Not that you cannot feel immersed on a flat game, but with VR the experience of being there, inside the game instead of seeing it from a window has no comparison. VR adds that extra level of experience that makes you appreciate and absorb the game world. I guess that is what you mean when you say it's a waste to not be able to play games like Red Dead 2 in VR, because you know there is a lot more you can perceive in VR.
 

Bedlam

Banned
Oct 26, 2017
4,536
VR has its own limits and try wearing that helmet repeatedly for several hours after coming home after a hard day's work.

OP, you are still in the honeymoon phase and don't reflect on the big picture.
 

DarthBuzzard

Banned
Jul 17, 2018
5,122
For slow, grounded games... maybe. But I can't imagine ever playing something as frenetic as, say, Doom Eternal in VR without filling my living room with barf. And I'd rather experiences like that continue to exist (Doom, not the barfing).
Echo Combat is an FPS that allows you to move faster than in Doom 2016 and rarely causes issues for people.
VR nauseates me. So no.
VR itself doesn't. It's just certain aspects of software that does. VR hardware is no longer the cause.
 

Spazerbeam

Prophet of Truth
Member
Oct 26, 2017
1,448
Florida
I can't possible disagree with you more. VR games are neat sure but there's still so much you can't do, like fast movement and comfortable long play sessions. Games like Titanfall 2 just can't exist in VR yet.
 

Deleted member 2620

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
4,491
nobody's gonna take away traditional FPSes, don't worry y'all

That said, I'd like to see more single-player first person shooters adopt VR optionally, like RE7 and all of the Serious Sam games.
 

DarthBuzzard

Banned
Jul 17, 2018
5,122
If I could play Red Dead 2 in VR, I'd be utterly lost to this world. Especially if I could have "hands" like in Skyrim. I couldn't imagine what kind of computing power it would take to make that happen.
A Rift/Vive is roughly as demanding as 4K 60 FPS. Considering an Xbox One X runs Red Dead 2 at native 4K 30 FPS, you'd need something about twice as powerful, which we have today at the high-end.