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nachum00

Member
Oct 26, 2017
8,418
The Jew, an easy target even for people playing pretend-progressive. "Oh yeah, uh. People got killed I know and It's not their fault but it's totally their fault man!"
Understand this, defenders of this asshole bigot...It's unimportant WHY you defend her, but you defend her by even trying to "switch the subject" when the topic is about people getting murdered. Even if your quarrel is with a specific subgroup of the Jewish faith that is clearly not what Joan was saying. She did a broad-stroke sweep.
Or shall we go. "Well it's a shame muslims got shot up by that white racist but you know ISIS is pretty bad..."
"Oh I know it's bad that a school got shot up and a dozen kids died by those Americans are pretty evil...".

Or, to do a little pop cultural quote: There is no version of this when you come out on top. (Let me hear the "Well I'm not defending her by trying to nuance why she advocated bigotry and genocide"...Please.)
Thank you

So many people in here saying "she has a point but it's the wrong time and place to bring it up". Completely ignoring the anti-Semitism in her comments and the straight up advocating of genocide. But lol she "probably" shouldn't be reelected again.
 
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GreatFenris

Banned
Apr 6, 2019
404
Thank you

So many people in here saying "she has a point but it's the wrong time and place to bring it up". Completely ignoring the anti-Semitism in her comments and the straight up advocating of genocide. But lol she "probably shouldn't" be reelected again.
Nothing to say thanks for, I'm left and Swedish, I have too much experience with anti-semitism from "progressives". It is always the same thing. "Well akshully there is a reason why Jews are extra bad!"
 

HStallion

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
62,262
So you are saying the Jews are coming in and ruining your hometown? I am not distrusting what you are saying, but are there some news articles that give an objective view to the harm they are causing and how it directly affects the black community?

Hasidic Jews sadly tend to dominate areas they begin to move into. Happened in Woodbury in Southern NY as well. Not saying I want them killed or anything of the sort but they can be incredible contentious for how they treat long time inhabitants.
 

nachum00

Member
Oct 26, 2017
8,418
Nothing to say thanks for, I'm left and Swedish, I have too much experience with anti-semitism from "progressives". It is always the same thing. "Well akshully there is a reason why Jews are extra bad!"
Well I am Jewish and I know exactly what you mean.
If this thread was about any other minority group everyone in here would be screaming from the rooftops about how she needs to be fired immediately. But since it's about Jews it's all "Well she's not completely wrong, and here's why" Nevermind the fact that she's basically painting these murderers as martyrs.
 

GreatFenris

Banned
Apr 6, 2019
404
Well I am Jewish and I know exactly what you mean.
If this thread was about any other minority group everyone in here would be screaming from the rooftops about how she needs to be fired immediately. But since it's about Jews it's all "Well she's not completely wrong, and here's why" Nevermind the fact that she's basically painting these murderers as martyrs.
Yeah, and it's disgusting how that seems to be okay in some "progressives" heads. "I will defend minorities, I will defend everyone...Except the jews. Fuck those guys."
Like, the discussion about how a small sub-sect of the Jewish faith behaves is another discussion altogether. Absolutely not related to some racist bigot that goes. "Do we dare explore the solution?" I'm surprised she didn't just go. "Perhaps it is time...For a final solution of sorts?"
But like you said, had this been some other minority and someone tryign to excuse it there would be hell to pay.
 

TrafficCoen

The Fallen
Feb 22, 2019
1,609
This person is talking about how it's understandable for someone to want to stick it to the Hasidic jews in regards to a shooting and people are like "It's a heated moment, it would sound less racist if it was a few weeks removed from the incident"
 
Oct 25, 2017
41,368
Miami, FL
Yeah, check out the documentary One of Us. As a Jew, I can testify that these communities can be super toxic.
This tends to be the case with strong but insular communities.

So what's the best way forward to address some of these stresses? Can the communities in question not sit down and talk this stuff out? Clearly there are matters that need to be addressed, and people and attitudes like this school official cannot be the people or the manner in which that happens. Ignoring it doesn't work either.
 
Oct 25, 2017
5,846
This tends to be the case with strong but insular communities.

So what's the best way forward to address some of these stresses? Can the communities in question not sit down and talk this stuff out? Clearly there are matters that need to be addressed, and people and attitudes like this school official cannot be the people or the manner in which that happens. Ignoring it doesn't work either.

If one side just wants to straight up replace you, I'm not sure there's a dialogue that can happen. The only option for these communities is to try and resist, and that's led to this extreme attitude.

It's the same in Brooklyn, where there are parts of the neighborhood which are mostly black but owned by the Hasidim. Better believe they have no positive attitude towards probably the only Jews they regularly meet. We're only 30 years from the riots and relations haven't really gotten better, so much as both groups are being priced out.

The big flashpoint that got a lot of attention was the East Ramapo School district, where Hasidic Jews took over the bird and then proceeded to loot the district for the benefit of their private school students. I haven't seen any updates on that situation to know whether it's improved. Last I saw was lawsuits are still ongoing: http://westchester.news12.com/story...it-against-east-ramapo-schools-to-go-to-trial

Jews are white people in the eyes of some progressives.

They are white in every way that matters to these people. They are displacing longtime residents, funneling money from public services to their own private education, and do not care about the needs of the local community. That they also face discrimination has no bearing in their worldview or the conflict between them.

That some WASPs don't consider them white, or the ultra orthodox don't consider other Jews real Jews, is kind of immaterial to the conflict at hand.
 

Gwenpoolshark

Member
Jan 5, 2018
4,109
The Pool
This tends to be the case with strong but insular communities.

So what's the best way forward to address some of these stresses? Can the communities in question not sit down and talk this stuff out? Clearly there are matters that need to be addressed, and people and attitudes like this school official cannot be the people or the manner in which that happens. Ignoring it doesn't work either.

This is about the stingiest question there is. Hasidic Jewish communities are historically insular not just as a way of what they see as preserving their way of life, but as recourse to a history of persecution and obliteration that you can't entirely fault them for. As such, they have not only traditions but literal actual laws that circumscribed the boundaries of their practices and behaviors (in the documentary I mentioned, one of the central figures was a seriously abused woman who could not report her husband without going against Talmudic law). There's really no simple answer. I'd say that Jews like me - relatively secular and openminded - have a slightly higher chance of breaking through, but in reality that's probably wishful thinking. These people are extremely set in their ways. I don't really know what's to be done. You'd be more likely to get actual reform and safeguarding against their more egregious transgressions by investigating the cops, city councils, education boards, and other civic officials who collude with them.
 

Wag

Member
Nov 3, 2017
11,638
Yeah these posts are disgusting. Can you please not make sweeping statements about an entire population of orthodox Jewish people?

You have both made defamatory comments about all Hasidic people because of the actions of a few Hasidic community members.

This is fear mongering and textbook anti-Semitism. Please stop.
I'm Jewish and grew up in Brooklyn/Queens and have first hand experience with the Hasidic community. I know plenty of Orthodox Jews and they are not as extreme as the Hasidic community as a rule.
 

L Thammy

Spacenoid
Member
Oct 25, 2017
50,046
I feel like people are focusing on the part of this post about how Jewish people are disrupting black communities are not on the part of her post about how people are getting killed in kosher groceries and their body parts are being sold. What's that about?
 
OP
OP
activepassive

activepassive

Member
Oct 28, 2017
931
Cincinnati, OH
First off, lay off the red text. Secondly, how would you characterize displacing residents and harassing them to try to get them to leave?
What did these guys chant??
gettyimages-830617844_master-e1502813545641.jpg
 

Wag

Member
Nov 3, 2017
11,638
I feel like there are two different topics being discussed here.

You can criticize a section of the Jewish community without being antisemitic. Nobody is condoning the murder of anyone.

What that lady said was ignorant and bigoted. She tossed in all Jews with a very small sub-group.
 
Oct 25, 2017
5,846
User Banned (1 Month): Inflammatory Rhetoric and Defending its Use Over Multiple Posts
What did these guys chant??

You have literally just read in this thread about them harassing residents to kick them out. They are trying to replace them.

Doesn't mean this person isn't obviously anti-Semitic (there's some irony with calling Jews brutes when that's often been the derogatory language aimed at African-Americans and dark-skinned people in general) but you're arguing everyone else is downplaying antisemitism while downplaying coordinated racism in turn.
 

Hubologist

Member
Nov 1, 2017
1,119
That lady is loopy.

The thing about certain Hasidic Jews essentially taking over communities sounds like a problem.
 

L Thammy

Spacenoid
Member
Oct 25, 2017
50,046
I feel like there are two different topics being discussed here.

You can criticize a section of the Jewish community without being antisemitic. Nobody is condoning the murder of anyone.

What that lady said was ignorant and bigoted because she threw in all Jews with a very small sub-group.
The problem with that might be in the post the thread revolves around. It's tying together anti-semitic killings, gentrification, alleged organ trafficking into one big honking paragraph. It's not hard to see how people might pick different conversations out of that.
 

GreatFenris

Banned
Apr 6, 2019
404
You have literally just read in this thread about them harassing residents to kick them out. They are trying to replace them.

Doesn't mean this person isn't obviously anti-Semitic (there's some irony with calling Jews brutes when that's often been the derogatory language aimed at African-Americans and dark-skinned people in general) but you're arguing everyone else is downplaying antisemitism while downplaying coordinated racism in turn.
In a thread about some bigot advocating genocide or at least painting out murderers as justified, the first MF who came in here with "Well akshully...There's more to it.." was an anti-Semitic piece of trash. All of the defenders are, because they ain't even got the spine to admit it. It's all "Well I don't...Oh, I don't just, that...Uh...There's more sides to why these people were killed"
I ain't gonna give the fucking nazis in Sweden a pass when they advocated genocide on muslims for what one terrorist did in Stockholm, and I ain't gonna give anti-semites in this thread and on Twitter a pass when they try to make murders sound reasonable.

That one particular group of Jews strong arming people? Sounds like an interesting topic. For.Its.Own.Thread.
Not for a thread about where a school official calls Jews brutes and goes on about "Daring to explore the solution"(The final solution if you will)
 

hendersonhank

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
1,390
In that FB post it looked like she was referring to some particular individuals as brutes, not Jewish people in general.
 

El_TigroX

Member
Oct 27, 2017
4,218
New York, NY
In a thread about some bigot advocating genocide or at least painting out murderers as justified, the first MF who came in here with "Well akshully...There's more to it.." was an anti-Semitic piece of trash. All of the defenders are, because they ain't even got the spine to admit it. It's all "Well I don't...Oh, I don't just, that...Uh...There's more sides to why these people were killed"
I ain't gonna give the fucking nazis in Sweden a pass when they advocated genocide on muslims for what one terrorist did in Stockholm, and I ain't gonna give anti-semites in this thread and on Twitter a pass when they try to make murders sound reasonable.

That one particular group of Jews strong arming people? Sounds like an interesting topic. For.Its.Own.Thread.
Not for a thread about where a school official calls Jews brutes and goes on about "Daring to explore the solution"(The final solution if you will)

I suppose I'm the MF you're calling out - so have the courage to tag me. I'm giving context and providing some perspective for living in the actual community - this is the city I choose to live in, and have made my home for nearly 15 years. Things have been happening that have directly impacted this part of the community I live in, and we don't often get the chance to have local perspectives on a place with global members.

You want to charge me with antisemitism, cool. Trash? I have a thick skin. It's alright. I'm going to choose to block you at this point - because you're not worth seeing around.

No one called for the murder of people, no one excused her words or behavior - you read into that. Good day.
 

GreatFenris

Banned
Apr 6, 2019
404
I suppose I'm the MF you're calling out - so have the courage to tag me. I'm giving context and providing some perspective for living in the actual community - this is the city I choose to live in, and have made my home for nearly 15 years. Things have been happening that have directly impacted this part of the community I live in, and we don't often get the chance to have local perspectives on a place with global members.

You want to charge me with antisemitism, cool. Trash? I have a thick skin. It's alright. I'm going to choose to block you at this point - because you're not worth seeing around.

No one called for the murder of people, no one excused her words or behavior - you read into that. Good day.
You're one of several, yeah. Be proud, you're just like every other white racist everywhere. Your experience isn't an excuse for bigotry.
 

Tiger Priest

Banned
Oct 24, 2017
1,120
New York, NY
I am Jewish, and I will tell you that I have a burning hatred of the Hasedim and the Ultra-Orthodox in general.

However, that Facebook post is straight up antisemitic and is literally defending the murder of Jews. There may be legitimate gripes against the Hasidic community in Jersey City and elsewhere but that does not mean that murder is condoned and that post is deep into several antisemitic canards.

In that FB post it looked like she was referring to some particular individuals as brutes, not Jewish people in general.

There is no need to include the identifier "of the Jewish community" then. What if I had made a post saying "Where was all this outrage when that supermarket was targeted by those brutes of the black community?" Regardless of whether I'm talking about those two shooters specifically, that would be an unacceptable and racist statement.

And you would have to have incredible tunnel vision to not see from the context of her whole post her sheer vitriol against the Jewish community.
 
OP
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activepassive

activepassive

Member
Oct 28, 2017
931
Cincinnati, OH
I am Jewish, and I will tell you that I have a burning hatred of the Hasedim and the Ultra-Orthodox in general.

However, that Facebook post is straight up antisemitic and is literally defending the murder of Jews. There may be legitimate gripes against the Hasidic community in Jersey City and elsewhere but that does not mean that murder is condoned and that post is deep into several antisemitic canards.



There is no need to include the identifier "of the Jewish community" then. What if I had made a post saying "Where was all this outrage when that supermarket was targeted by those brutes of the black community?" Regardless of whether I'm talking about those two shooters specifically, that would be an unacceptable and racist statement.

And you would have to have incredible tunnel vision to not see from the context of her whole post her sheer vitriol against the Jewish community.
Exactly.

Literally insert any other race or ethnicity into this statement and see whether it reads okay or not.
 
Oct 30, 2017
1,782
^ In the NPR piece posted there were a number of instances of straight antisemitism creeping into the more formal deliberations on how to deal with the school district's issues. It was disappointing and of course undermined everything the more legitimate parties were trying to accomplish.

You're one of several, yeah. Be proud, you're just like every other white racist everywhere. Your experience isn't an excuse for bigotry.
From reading his statements I think you're mischaracterizing them. He stressed that her reaction was inappropriate and wrong but also provided context for the situation that many found surprising and informative.

Your take is that that discussion should be had in another thread, which is probably a good idea in its own right, but some disagree and see the context as immediately relevant.
 
Discussion guidelines

Poodlestrike

Smooth vs. Crunchy
Administrator
Oct 25, 2017
13,496
Official Staff Communication
The shooting in Jersey City was a tragedy, and this woman's comments are obviously unacceptable. Any attempt to reframe the discussion into a dialogue on the Hasidic Community will be viewed as off topic at best, and minimizing or downplaying antisemitism at worst.
 
OP
OP
activepassive

activepassive

Member
Oct 28, 2017
931
Cincinnati, OH
The other problem with this is the underlying malaise about this issue that, because there was no way to tie this back to White Supremacists/Trump, it has largely just been forgotten because it doesn't jibe with the larger media narrative.

Case in point: Rashida Tlaib's rush to judgment and then pure silence when it was clear she had spoken too soon.


It's not okay. Where was her correction? Say something. Just delete your tweet and repost it with "Supremacy ideologies kill," because they do. All supremacy ideologies are built around dehumanizing and othering groups of people on baseless claims.
 

GreatFenris

Banned
Apr 6, 2019
404
^ In the NPR piece posted there were a number of instances of straight antisemitism creeping into the more formal deliberations on how to deal with the school district's issues. It was disappointing and of course undermined everything the more legitimate parties were trying to accomplish.


From reading his statements I think you're mischaracterizing them. He stressed that her reaction was inappropriate and wrong but also provided context for the situation that many found surprising and informative.

Your take is that that discussion should be had in another thread, which is probably a good idea in its own right, but some disagree and see the context as immediately relevant.
Context that wasn't needed.
DO people provide context for each school shooting? For every racially motivated crime? Every hate crime?
No? Then it wasn't needed by the individual this time either.
 

Jag

Member
Oct 26, 2017
11,673
The other problem with this is the underlying malaise about this issue that, because there was no way to tie this back to White Supremacists/Trump, it has largely just been forgotten because it doesn't jibe with the larger media narrative.

Case in point: Rashida Tlaib's rush to judgment and then pure silence when it was clear she had spoken too soon.



It's not okay. Where was her correction? Say something. Just delete your tweet and repost it with "Supremacy ideologies kill," because they do. All supremacy ideologies are built around dehumanizing and othering groups of people on baseless claims.

Sad but true. This killing got no traction on the far left because it didn't fit into the white supremacy narrative. For Jews like us, it's becoming increasingly hard to figure out which group wants us dead on any given day.

It's also why we are all over potential dogwhistling because we all know how that story ends.
 
Oct 30, 2017
1,782
^ I'll be honest, my initial reaction was to expect white nationalism, when it wasn't I was genuinely curious for the motivation.

Edit: I mean antisemitism, clearly, but from am unexpected source, if that makes sense?

Context that wasn't needed.
DO people provide context for each school shooting? For every racially motivated crime? Every hate crime?
No? Then it wasn't needed by the individual this time either.
What else is there to discuss then, aside from throwing insults at the person who made the original statement? Why lose an opportunity to learn about something?

Any time I see someone espouse the use of violence I wonder what brought them to it. Even if only to learn about the situation they're in and how they perceive they have been hurt, real or imagined.

Sometimes their motivations are ugly and there's not much to be learned, other times there's more to it.
 

Deleted member 11413

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 27, 2017
22,961
Citation needed please.
There is an entire documentary on Netflix about a hate crime perpetrated by Hassidic community police on a black man that left him blind in one eye.

There have been dozens of articles written about issues in Hassidic communities, from gentrification to racism to child abuse. If you know anything about the subject you would know this, my knowledge is only cursory and even I'm aware of some of these issues. It feels like you are being intentionally obtuse even asking this question.

Either way there is a mod post about this subject so if you want to continue this discussion feel free to PM me. Hassidic communities are also very often victims of anti-Semitic oppression and violence, so it's a very complex issue.
 

L Thammy

Spacenoid
Member
Oct 25, 2017
50,046
Honestly, this thread is kind of interesting for demonstrating how we mentally rewrite news as it's written. It was standard Trump supporter protocol to respond to straightforward racism with "he may have said that, but what he really meant was..." while the original statement is easily viewed and understood.

She never once mentioned Hasidics in her post. He directed her issues to the whole Jewish community. She posted this in direct response to anti-semitic violence, like how people suddenly become concerned about the lives of police and equality of all races when violence against black Americans is discussed. She isn't talking only about gentrification, but also includes the trafficking of body parts by Jewish people and a disappearance in a kosher grocery. She namedropped a man who was convicted for bank fraud, and who as far as I can tell is from a different orthodox branch, being from the middle east rather than eastern Europe as the Hasidics are.

So we can clearly see when we look at the Facebook post that the narrative that this is about Hasidic Jews and was simply being talked about at the wrong time isn't quite right. It's not about Hasidic Jews, it's not just about harmful business practices, and it's being inserted into a conversation about hate-based violence in a way that shifts the topic away from that. How did we manage to shift the conversation in this thread so damn quickly?

Sitting from the outside, I had been feeling for a while that the time after Trump may be harder for people to deal with, because opposition and support for Trump provided a simple measure for whether a human being is good or evil. Now that you can begin putting that behind you, you're going to have deal with the fact that there are forces within your nation that made Trump as powerful as he was, and a lot of the people all over that old axis are responsible for producing those forces. Being on the wrong side might have made you a bad person, but being on the right side doesn't make you a good one.
 

GreatFenris

Banned
Apr 6, 2019
404
^ I'll be honest, my initial reaction was to expect white nationalism, when it wasn't I was genuinely curious for the motivation.

Edit: I mean antisemitism, clearly, but from am unexpected source, if that makes sense?


What else is there to discuss then, aside from throwing insults at the person who made the original statement? Why lose an opportunity to learn about something?

Any time I see someone espouse the use of violence I wonder what brought them to it. Even if only to learn about the situation they're in and how they perceive they have been hurt, real or imagined.

Sometimes their motivations are ugly and there's not much to be learned, other times there's more to it.
THis Joan is an anti-Semite. Her defenders here are either anti-Semites or just misguided. That's it. YOu can't learn about hatred, about the ugly face of bigotry because at the end of the day knowing about it won't help you do anything.
So this person is a hateful pos, what can we learn from that? That Jews aren't all bad, yeah that we know. That Jews don't kill people in Kosher stores and sell their organs? Same.
Oh, or we go the 30's way and try to motivate it with how Jews are taking things from the pure, innocent non-Jews? I rather not. You don't destroy bigotry by giving the argument brought forth by bigots some consideration. Jews are not a uniform group, just as Trump fans are full of shit when they claim black people or brown people are. But you'd never have someone go "Well...Let's hear them out, okay?" on ERA. Because it's just bigoted noise.
Here in Sweden we've had a rash of car burnings and small-scale riots in suburbs across the country as poor socio-economic factors mix with a sense of isolation from society. (Stoked in part by radical forces on all sides) and the you hear people advocating killing kids throwing rocks because "Enough is enough!". You wanna know why they advocate killing hundreds of innocent people? Because they're hateful, because they feel anger at something different.
 
Oct 30, 2017
1,782
If you didnt know the reasons behind those riots you mention would you feel differently about the rioters?

I'm not advocating for hearing out the bigots, but learning about the conditions the communities have found themselves in that give rise to their animosities.
 

Deleted member 8752

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 26, 2017
10,122
If you didnt know the reasons behind those riots you mention would you feel differently about the rioters?

I'm not advocating for hearing out the bigots, but learning about the conditions the communities have found themselves in that give rise to their animosities.

This is not a riot. This was a hate crime and a form of domestic terrorism. If you want to categorize this senseless act as a mere symptom of some greater problem, then all you're doing is connect dots that should never be connected. In the civilian context, a shooter is NEVER a representative of a group of people and the innocent unarmed people a shooter kills are NEVER a symptom of some greater problem.

When a group suffers, it's never okay to advance that group's message by killing fellow civilians. And it's never okay to point to someone who carried out a form of domestic terrorism and say: "well here's why he did it."

When someone shoots up a black church for example, all of us righteously condemn such behavior as hate filled senselessness. Then we usually try to discuss gun control, racism, and other measures to prevent such a thing from happening.

But when Jews get shot up in a kosher market, I come into this thread thread and instead read "If you didnt know the reasons behind those riots you mention would you feel differently about the rioters?"

Honestly man, that is a complete bullshit double standard. Jews are not a monolithic entity, even those who are orthodox. No one deserves to be killed for occupying a space or being a certain "type" of person. It's bullshit tribalism in its most hateful form. It's not even subtle.
 

Deleted member 8752

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 26, 2017
10,122
Any insular ultra orthodox religiouis group coming into a new area and taking control is never a good thing in my book. I say the same about Evangelical Christians.
I vote left and am not religious. So believe me when I say, I hope you learn someday that what you're saying is not actually a liberal intellectual statement. It is, instead, bigotry dressed up as pseudo-intellectualism.

The vast majority of religious people are harmless people who just want to be left alone to worship.
 
Oct 30, 2017
1,782
This is not a riot. This was a hate crime and a form of domestic terrorism. If you want to categorize this senseless act as a mere symptom of some greater problem, then all you're doing is connect dots that should never be connected. In the civilian context, a shooter is NEVER a representative of a group of people and the innocent unarmed people a shooter kills are NEVER a symptom of some greater problem.

When a group suffers, it's never okay to advance that group's message by killing fellow civilians. And it's never okay to point to someone who carried out a form of domestic terrorism and say: "well here's why he did it."

When someone shoots up a black church for example, all of us righteously condemn such behavior as hate filled senselessness. Then we usually try to discuss gun control, racism, and other measures to prevent such a thing from happening.

But when Jews get shot up in a kosher market, I come into this thread thread and instead read "If you didnt know the reasons behind those riots you mention would you feel differently about the rioters?"

Honestly man, that is a complete bullshit double standard. Jews are not a monolithic entity, even those who are orthodox. No one deserves to be killed for occupying a space or being a certain "type" of person. It's bullshit tribalism in its most hateful form. It's not even subtle.
My post was in direct response to GreatFenris and my comments were not about the initial incident in the OP.
 
OP
OP
activepassive

activepassive

Member
Oct 28, 2017
931
Cincinnati, OH
Honestly, this thread is kind of interesting for demonstrating how we mentally rewrite news as it's written. It was standard Trump supporter protocol to respond to straightforward racism with "he may have said that, but what he really meant was..." while the original statement is easily viewed and understood.

She never once mentioned Hasidics in her post. He directed her issues to the whole Jewish community. She posted this in direct response to anti-semitic violence, like how people suddenly become concerned about the lives of police and equality of all races when violence against black Americans is discussed. She isn't talking only about gentrification, but also includes the trafficking of body parts by Jewish people and a disappearance in a kosher grocery. She namedropped a man who was convicted for bank fraud, and who as far as I can tell is from a different orthodox branch, being from the middle east rather than eastern Europe as the Hasidics are.

So we can clearly see when we look at the Facebook post that the narrative that this is about Hasidic Jews and was simply being talked about at the wrong time isn't quite right. It's not about Hasidic Jews, it's not just about harmful business practices, and it's being inserted into a conversation about hate-based violence in a way that shifts the topic away from that. How did we manage to shift the conversation in this thread so damn quickly?

Sitting from the outside, I had been feeling for a while that the time after Trump may be harder for people to deal with, because opposition and support for Trump provided a simple measure for whether a human being is good or evil. Now that you can begin putting that behind you, you're going to have deal with the fact that there are forces within your nation that made Trump as powerful as he was, and a lot of the people all over that old axis are responsible for producing those forces. Being on the wrong side might have made you a bad person, but being on the right side doesn't make you a good one.
This post is so spot on.
 

HStallion

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
62,262
I vote left and am not religious. So believe me when I say, I hope you learn someday that what you're saying is not actually a liberal intellectual statement. It is, instead, bigotry dressed up as pseudo-intellectualism.

The vast majority of religious people are harmless people who just want to be left alone to worship.

I wasn't talking about the vast majority of religious people, not even close... but whatever this is hardly the topic for this so not going to derail any longer.