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SecondNature

Member
Oct 25, 2017
15,158
giphy.gif

Well Cody and Barrett are friends, and Barrett was Jericho's rookie in NXT, so I figured that could play into the whole faction feud

As for Ryback, he's da big guy
 

multivac

Member
Nov 3, 2017
30
I'll be at Dynamite this Wednesday with decent seats, can't wait to see the fallout from the title match
 
Oct 29, 2017
12,707
I really liked the show. The last match should never happen again. AEW is too big of an company to have death matches like that. States with strict athletic boards can outlaw them for matches like this.
 

Nida

Member
Aug 31, 2019
11,194
Everett, Washington
Who are some free agents AEW could sign? I feel like they'd benefit from a Hager-like signing. Wade Barrett? ...Ryback?

Im hoping to see Juice Robinson eventually make his way to AEW.

Also, why was Pentagon Jr randomly okay with a body double in the ring with him?

I find they also seem to have rushed the top two matches with their storytelling. I have no idea why Moxley/Omega is a Lights Out match. There's barely a blood feud here, just Moxley randomly targeting Omega a few times. Is the storyline that Moxley is just crazy? It just feels like this match deserved far more build and storytelling as I didnt buy the severity of the stipulation.

MJF turning on Cody was good, but again, shouldn't they have built this up? Throw in the towel tonight, keep the crowd guessing on what's happening for a few weeks, and then have MJF turn on TV or the next PPV when it's clear he's just screwing with Cody? It's not a big deal in the end, they decided to do the turn immediately, but I feel like they could have really built on the teases.

Also, can we get Darby Allin vs Moxley soon? Id like to see heel Moxley beat the crap out of Allin.

I think Wade Barrett is retired. But this is wrestling. I don't think Ryback is really an AEW type of guy.

And yeah the Lights Out stip would have made more sense if it was a blow off to a hugely heated rivalry with all sorts of dastardly actions from the heel.
 

Downhome

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,356
The best thing about the MJF turn is that he waited until Cody forgives him for throwing in the towel.

I don't get why some say it should have been built up. It was built up, from the start of AEW. Heck, he went as far once to swing a chair back as if to hit Cody but ended up not doing it. That may have happened more than once.

I will say that I do wish they had waited a week or to and do it on TV though. I'd have liked to have seen a bit of aftermath post towel.

Overall though, I'm happy.
 

Puroresu_kid

Banned
Oct 28, 2017
9,465
Who are some free agents AEW could sign? I feel like they'd benefit from a Hager-like signing. Wade Barrett? ...Ryback?

Im hoping to see Juice Robinson eventually make his way to AEW.

Also, why was Pentagon Jr randomly okay with a body double in the ring with him?

I find they also seem to have rushed the top two matches with their storytelling. I have no idea why Moxley/Omega is a Lights Out match. There's barely a blood feud here, just Moxley randomly targeting Omega a few times. Is the storyline that Moxley is just crazy? It just feels like this match deserved far more build and storytelling as I didnt buy the severity of the stipulation.

MJF turning on Cody was good, but again, shouldn't they have built this up? Throw in the towel tonight, keep the crowd guessing on what's happening for a few weeks, and then have MJF turn on TV or the next PPV when it's clear he's just screwing with Cody? It's not a big deal in the end, they decided to do the turn immediately, but I feel like they could have really built on the teases.

Also, can we get Darby Allin vs Moxley soon? Id like to see heel Moxley beat the crap out of Allin.

Juice moved to Japan. Pretty sure he said living costs too high in America so can't see him going anytime soon.
 

lucebuce

Community Resettler
Member
Oct 25, 2017
22,892
Pakistan
I just realized that each half of The Golden Lovers were having a main event match at opposite coasts of the US on the same night :(
 

El-Suave

Member
Oct 27, 2017
4,831
The time limit judges thing coming into play never crossed my mind. That was introduced to show it's there to be used at another time. Announcing something unusual to use it right away is WWE kind of blunt and clumsy.
 
Oct 25, 2017
4,819
Lol at people wanting Nic Gage vs Moxley. The company should be trying to gain new fans, not trying to appeal to the small subset of fans who enjoy convicts killing each other with phoney spots.
 

Dirtyshubb

Member
Oct 25, 2017
17,555
UK
Just finished the show and other than the crowd mostly being shit (or mic issues) it was really good. Lot of fun matches and some good story progression too.

Really dont understand the outrage from some people regarding the hardcore match, I mean you don't have to love it but I'm glad aew will give a little of everything and have a variety of match styles.

As for MJF, as much as I would have enjoyed them dragging it out a little further, they booked it really well story wise and it made perfect sense for him to turn now considering he previously said he would wait until Cody was done with the championship before he would go for it. Also they booked it so well that I was expecting Cody to attack MJF right before MJF did so they kept it unpredictable.
 

milamber182

Member
Dec 15, 2017
7,727
Australia
Loved it. Wasn't a fan of some of the booking (like Bea losing and 2 men in the ring for a 3-way tag match) and the crowd could have been better but no major complaints. My match rankings because I can't be bothered to think about stars:

1. Omega vs Moxely
2. Cody vs Jericho (c)
3. Emi vs Riho (c)
4. Young Bucks vs PnP
5. PAC vs Page
6. Private Party vs Lucha Bros vs SCU (c)
7. Bea vs Britt
8. Spears vs Janela

 
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Rivenblade

Member
Nov 1, 2017
37,123
Surprised by how highly people are grading the Riho/Emi match. It was fine for me, but there was a lot of dead time between certain spots and they only had the crowd for 20% of it. Glad Riho is resonating with more people, though.
 

TheIlliterati

Banned
Oct 28, 2017
4,782
Surprised by how highly people are grading the Riho/Emi match. It was fine for me, but there was a lot of dead time between certain spots and they only had the crowd for 20% of it. Glad Riho is resonating with more people, though.
I really really like Riho in theory, but her entire move pool seems to be knees and stomps. I personally thought as I saw more of her I would be even more impressed, but I've reached a ceiling where I feel I've seen everything that will happen in a Riho match. The match ended up having a limited appeal for me because I didn't really feel their history baked into it.
 

Valkyr

Member
Oct 26, 2017
2,939
Lot's of negativity in this thread but I thought the show was great. Every match was good to great. I'm really shocked to see people down on the Bucks/PnP match. I thought that match was a super strong opener and had a great pop at the end with the RnR Express.
 

HomokHarcos

Member
Jul 11, 2018
2,447
Canada
I really think they made a mistake having MJF beat up Cody after the match. They should have at least had a segment with MJF trying to defend his decision instead of hotshotting it.
 

The Climaxan

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,974
NC-USA
I was on the fence about turning MJF early, but I thought they flawlessly executed it last night. I was completely bought into the idea of MJFs shame or even Cody turning and then BOOM, low blow. This program will elevate MJF to main event status, it's a nice way to usher Cody away from the title picture and it clears the way for Mox or Omega to start feuding with Jericho.
 

Rivenblade

Member
Nov 1, 2017
37,123
Lot's of negativity in this thread but I thought the show was great. Every match was good to great. I'm really shocked to see people down on the Bucks/PnP match. I thought that match was a super strong opener and had a great pop at the end with the RnR Express.

I think most people really enjoyed it too, no? I also thought it was a very strong opener. Liked the story of Nick's leg, especially the collapse off the rope. It was the type of tag match I like and felt like it didn't rely on dive after dive and superkick after superkick.
 

Rad Bandolar

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,036
SoCal
Surprised by how highly people are grading the Riho/Emi match. It was fine for me, but there was a lot of dead time between certain spots and they only had the crowd for 20% of it. Glad Riho is resonating with more people, though.
I wouldn't use this crowd's reactions as support for whether a match was good or not, considering how lifeless they were for just about everything.

I think people here might be grading on a curve, since most of the AEW women's matches shown so far have been uneven due to inexperience or other issues, so when you see two old pros go at it, it looks and feels much more satisfying in comparison.
 

Rivenblade

Member
Nov 1, 2017
37,123
I really think they made a mistake having MJF beat up Cody after the match. They should have at least had a segment with MJF trying to defend his decision instead of hotshotting it.

It would have made for a fantastic moment on television. Maybe they try to walk it back and MJF gaslights Cody? And we hear JR using the term gaslighting on TNT.

...

Not gonna happen, and it shouldn't. I'm in for MJF vs. Cody in the coming months. Wonder if they hotshot their first match and make it the main event of this week's Dynamite.
 

Rivenblade

Member
Nov 1, 2017
37,123
I wouldn't use this crowd's reactions as support for whether a match was good or not, considering how lifeless they were for just about everything.

I think people here might be grading on a curve, since most of the AEW women's matches shown so far have been uneven due to inexperience or other issues, so when you see two old pros go at it, it looks and feels much more satisfying in comparison.

That's true, but we already had a better women's match on Dynamite this week IMO.

Anyway, it wasn't a bad show at all last night. (says the guy who hasn't seen the last two matches yet and won't watch them until later tonight)
 

Rivenblade

Member
Nov 1, 2017
37,123
I really really like Riho in theory, but her entire move pool seems to be knees and stomps. I personally thought as I saw more of her I would be even more impressed, but I've reached a ceiling where I feel I've seen everything that will happen in a Riho match. The match ended up having a limited appeal for me because I didn't really feel their history baked into it.

That's a fair criticism, but she's also shown she can do suplexes. Haha. The money in Riho is how she sells for her opponents. She's a great sympathetic babyface.
 

TheIlliterati

Banned
Oct 28, 2017
4,782
That's a fair criticism, but she's also shown she can do suplexes. Haha. The money in Riho is how she sells for her opponents. She's a great sympathetic babyface.
Absolutely. So where the match was a letdown for me was the storytelling. Though the buildup was not done much by AEW, I knew the history, and Emi's crying when she came out was affecting. But then the match the story wasn't there. I didn't see hesitation or determination really affecting either one. Emi isn't heel enough either to really make a babyface win by Riho feel appealing. Ultimately someone like Nyla is more limited in the ring than Emi but I enjoy seeing Riho triumph over her more.
 

Aeron

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,156
Holy shit, great PPV.
Fucking MOX man, he's my pick to take the belt off Jericho.

MJF turn worked me, thought for sure after the towel throw it'd be Cody turning or a longer build.
Reality is it was the right time to pull the trigger, there's cool fantasy booking shit you can do building it longer but MJF needs the heat NOW and be less of a nobody/sidekick and be an actual somebody.
Cody might not even be as supernova over now months down the line and then you've missed the bus.

Also gives Cody something to do that's got immediate heat now he's out of the title picture.
 

PC98_Audi

Producer @ Limited Run Games
Verified
Oct 26, 2017
260
Raleigh
Damn, reading this thread you'd think I was watching a completely different show than most of you and that JR personally spat a Oklahoma loogie in your faces.

My brother and I loved the show, especially the Riho/Sakurai match and Cody/Jericho. Didn't really notice or care about how the crowd reacted since we were having fun watching, but I did miss Tony Schiavone on commentary. Excalibur and JR were great on their own though. Hoping Luchasaurus comes back sometime soon, though most of the matches were really really fun. We haven't watched wrestling together since 1998 WCW so it was a nice nostalgic feeling.
 
Jan 10, 2018
6,327
I do like that the Moxley - Omega match is divise because it delivered lol. Yes, it wasn't a death match you peak smarks, but the biggest amount of whining was and is over it actually being violent and not clothesline into Playdoh WWE type of violent.
 

Brinbe

Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
58,301
Terana
Mox Jericho should be gangbusters. Could really pivot to Moxley taking on the entire inner circle, raising hell. He's def world champ material.

And then Cody-MJF should be fucking fantastic too.
 

TheIlliterati

Banned
Oct 28, 2017
4,782
I think it was an overall great PPV that delivered on its promise, the only problem is that Dynamite has been Too Good. The overall show didn't deliver anything different than Dynamite which speaks to its quality though it lowers the PPV's value, though the final two matches certainly did deliver spectacle over and beyond what Dynamite has which made the PPV worth the money IMO.
 

Boat Times

Made the Grade
Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,565
Yeah, I've only read the last few pages of this thread but damn, I thought this show was realllly good. Me and my friends loved it. Thought the only weak match was Spears vs Janela, and even then it wasn't bad. It just felt like a random throwaway match, though. Didn't really belong on the card. Probably could have used it elsewhere for a bit of a breather, to be honest. But every other match was great. The MJF heel turn was needed, he hasn't been doing anything but seeming like a baby face sidekick on the actual tv show. Yes, they could have stretched it out but why? He's a heel, let him be a heel.
 

fhqwhgads

Member
Oct 28, 2017
1,535
Just shows how poisionous the "WWE style" is. To think they'd managed to convince people for years that Moxley was a bad wrestler.
 

Blah

Member
Oct 26, 2017
3,602
I can't believe fans are still getting worked by hardcore matches in 2019. This isn't a high school gym deathmatch where a light tube is being legitimately stuck into somebody's neck. Or a knife to somebody's throat. Or The Rock legitimately beating Foley with chair shots to the head.

Not to diminish what they go through or the pain but they're trained professionals and this is their livelihood. I trust them to do their jobs.
 

Matticers

Member
Oct 28, 2017
2,197
I guess I'll post some random Full Gear thoughts out of pure boredom.

The commentary was sloppy early on but I thought JR did a lot better by the end when it really counted. But I do think they need that third guy out there with them. I really don't know why they couldn't put Goldenboy on the team tonight. Sometimes it felt like Excalibur was rambling a bit with play by play and other times it was JR rambling and stumbling. So having Goldenboy to bounce off of or to interject would've helped but it wasn't that big of a deal for me. I will say JR's miscues can crack me up so at least we got that out of it. "Amy...Emi...Amy... goddammit" was gold.

Bea vs Britt - This was okay-ish. It's pretty much what we expected, I guess. Britt had a number of moves that just didn't look good or didn't connect (as usual) but it didn't take that much away from the match for me. My issue with the match is the ending. I really don't understand giving Baker the win here. They're pushing her like she's going to be next in line to get a title shot... but she just had one and lost. Even if she does get another shot, she shouldn't win because her miscues in the ring will be even more embarrassing. I feel like Bea should have won and made to look like a bruiser, have her win a few more matches on Dynamite and then challenge Riho. She could beat Riho and then you can do a Britt/Bea rematch down the road for the title where hopefully Britt will be past her issues by then and will make a good champ. But no, I don't know what they're doing here exactly.

Young Bucks vs PNP - I liked this a lot but it's about what I expected from these two. They're both great and that's what we got from them but nothing happened that really blew me away. But it was a fun match, PNP are super entertaining and the right team won. Also, the part with RNR after the match made it even better for me. That was just fun.

PAC vs Hangman - Kind of similar to the previous match where I felt like it was very good and we pretty much got what we expected from these two. I did like the end with PAC trying to distract the ref while kicking back and trying to low blow Hangman again but this time he was ready for it and it led to a win for him. I enjoy little throwbacks like that. It's decent storytelling rather than just doing random things. I kind of wanted PAC to win this one because I thought it would make for better storylines going forward but I guess that's a minor nitpick. I'm fine with Page winning.

Janela vs Spears - Everyone hates Spears or at least that's what it seems like. My first introduction to the guy is around the time he debuted in the royal rumble but I thought he was really over back then and in NXT, so what changed from then to now? I don't think he's a terrible wrestler, I just think his style of wrestling is more boring compared to most of the AEW roster. And, well, his charisma is far more boring than most of the roster too. But that's why he has Tully and I think it adds a solid element to him if they can work him into matches like they did in this one. I thought the match was decent for what it was with a few cool moments like the hair tying thing and then the end with Tully getting involved.

SCU vs Lucha Bros vs Private Party - I'm just going to go ahead and say while I like all of these tag teams, I'm not a fan of three or four way tag matches. There's too much going on and I've always thought the rules for it were stupid with only have two wrestlers in the ring at a time. I think it should be one from each team but whatever. If you're not going to do that, then I think these should be elimination matches rather than first pin wins. But whatever. The match was okay but kind of messy at times, as expected. Fenix is amazing. I'll watch that dude anytime. Daniels after the match was... okay. Cool to see him back but it didn't really do much for me.

Emi vs Riho - Good match that suffered from a lack of build up prior to the match and it could've used more storytelling during the match itself. I think those two things might've bumped it up to being a great match. These two obviously work great together with their experience. Some of the stomps from each of them had me wincing since it looked like they really connected and drove directly into the other person. The ending sequence was great and that tilt-a-whirl backbreaker was money. It just leaves me wondering where they want to go with opponents for Riho in the future. I'm sure they'll figure something out for the next PPV but I can't see any compelling storylines before then on Dynamite. Not in the near future, at least. But I would love to be wrong.

Cody vs Jericho - I really liked this. Everything Cody touches turns to gold lately and that's not a coincidence. I'm pretty sure he took a header onto the ramp just to try and bust himself open and I admire that dedication to the cause lol. I didn't mind MJF throwing in the towel since it kind of protects Cody and I guess technically, you can say he didn't lose since he wasn't pinned and didn't tap. But I'm sure they'll figure out how they want to play it when he does inevitably challenge for the title again down the road which probably won't be for a long time. I am surprised they went with the full turn from MJF already, though. Like most other people, I thought it needed to be teased for longer. It could've been a rift between them for weeks until he finally turned, kind of like the elite questioning Hangman. That sort of thing with Cody questioning MJF. But nope, they wanted to do it now. Which I guess is fine because it gives Cody something to do for a while. The promos between him and MJF should be epic and this will help to elevate MJF's career to the next level if he's up to par in the ring. I'm 50/50 on whether or not I want to see MJF paired with the inner circle or if I just want him to be an asshole to literally everyone instead. I like the latter but the main reason I'd want him with the inner circle is because I like the idea of a war games match of Jericho/PNP/Hager/Sammy/MJF vs Cody/Young Bucks/Hangman/Dustin/Scurll. I'm leaving Kenny out of it because he's much more effective getting his own match on that PPV. Scurll would just be fun to see there with him and MJF being introduced as sixth man mystery partners leading into it.

Moxley vs Omega - There are quite a few people cringing or complaining about this match but I personally loved it. I'm surprised to see so many people upset about it but I guess not everyone can handle watching that sort of thing? I don't know. I don't mind getting one hardcore match and it's not like they're doing them constantly. Both guys looked great here and the right guy won. I'm kind of hoping the feud stops here and that they go with a mutual respect for each other kind of angle. They can revisit it later and have an actual match where Kenny probably wins. But Mox looked like an animal here and he needs to be the one to take the title from Jericho. I don't think Jericho will lose it until Double or Nothing, though, and that's a long time to wait for that.

Overall, a very good to great show. I thought it might have been somewhat slow or predictable early on but it really shined when we got to the last 3 matches.
 
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Stooge

Member
Oct 29, 2017
11,222
I think it was an overall great PPV that delivered on its promise, the only problem is that Dynamite has been Too Good. The overall show didn't deliver anything different than Dynamite which speaks to its quality though it lowers the PPV's value, though the final two matches certainly did deliver spectacle over and beyond what Dynamite has which made the PPV worth the money IMO.

I actually think that you are 100% onto something.

It's the best PPV I've watched in *years*... but, the problem is the jump from a normal Dynamite TV show and this PPV was not that insane. Not because the PPV wasn't really good (I think there were two legit 4* matches and a 4.5* match last night) but it's that Dynamite is consistently delivering 3-3.5 star caliber matches week in week out.

This is actually something I've been thinking for a while, which is AEW doesn't really bury anyone. So that means the undercard gets to "look good" against the top-tier performers on Dynamite (even if they ultimately lose) which is great for putting people over and leads to fantastic TV that is an insanely high-energy 2 hours... but it also means there is less room to grow for the big pay-offs on PPV.

I think the 6 man tag match was the prime victim of this. It was a super good match. But they are already giving us so much great tag action weekly on the show that it felt exactly like a Dynamite match.

That said, the opening tag match, men's title match and lights out match were amazing and elevated above "par" for Dynamite. But it is kind of an odd issue. WWE in the early 2000s had a penchant for pretty boring TV shows but then bangers at PPV. This slowly morphed into mostly bad everything with an occasional shining star. But I think we got used to "bad TV" and "good PPV" and AEW is sort of a victim of it's own expectations game.
 
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Carnby

Member
Oct 25, 2017
12,237
I actually think that you are 100% onto something.

It's the best PPV I've watched in *years*... but, the problem is the jump from a normal Dynamite TV show and this PPV was not that insane. Not because the PPV wasn't really good (I think there were two legit 4* matches and a 4.5* match last night) but it's that Dynamite is consistently delivering 3-3.5 star caliber matches week in week out.

This is actually something I've been thinking for a while, which is AEW doesn't really bury anyone. So that means the undercard gets to "look good" against the top-tier performers on Dynamite (even if they ultimately lose) which is great for putting people over and leads to fantastic TV that is an insanely high-energy 2 hours... but it also means there is less room to grow for the big pay-offs on PPV.

I think the 6 man tag match was the prime victim of this. It was a super good match. But they are already giving us so much great tag action weekly on the show that it felt exactly like a Dynamite match.

All good takes.

So what's the solution? Take the WWE route by having bad tv matches made up of head locks and rest holds to train the audience nothing matters until the last minute of the match, (so the PPVs or "better" in comparison), or devalue PPVs by selling them for practicaly free?
 

TheIlliterati

Banned
Oct 28, 2017
4,782
I think the 6 man tag match was the prime victim of this. It was a super good match. But they are already giving us so much great tag action weekly on the show that it felt exactly like a Dynamite match.
I think they will fix this over time, with four months between PPVs they can do a longer hotter build to a more specialized match. You're right that the six man suffered, for me we've just seen these teams fight so many times in the past few weeks that a championship match not based much around a storyline meant little. PPV's for AEW need to be based around matches with hot storylines or interesting match stipulations like Lights out or Ladders or cages, etc. Then you know you're going to get something new and interesting for sure. PnP vs. Bucks was great since it was the first time and we've barely seen PnP. Overall I think they tried to make it special so I have confidence that they will continue to improve.
 

Stooge

Member
Oct 29, 2017
11,222
All good takes.

So what's the solution? Take the WWE route by having bad tv matches made up of head locks and rest holds to train the audience nothing matters until the last minute of the match, (so the PPVs or "better" in comparison), or devalue PPVs by selling them for practicaly free?

Part of it was probably trying to get good ratings for Dynamite out the gate, so we got some match booking you normally wouldn't have had on TV.

I think build storylines better. I think the three real bangers for me also had good heat behind them. So, your PPV should be payoffs to storylines, and they delivered on that in a few matches and others were just "here are some randos fighting" or failed to build the match well (Women's title). Those matches were good quality, but they didn't "feel" special heading into the match. Like, I legit started marking for Cody to win last night. I knew he wouldn't, but they made me want him to win. So, more stuff like that going forward, which with 4 months between PPVs I think we'll get there. Thank God they are't trotting out monthly (or more than monthly) "minor" PPVs like WWE did. It really was the cause of title reigns becoming too short.

I think the nature of AEW makes squashes hard since they are trying to be a haven for indies. I think that can be overcome with storybuilding and smarter booking (i.e. maybe we see less of the heavies on TV week in and week out going forward).
 

Uncle00Jesse

Member
Nov 1, 2017
281
For all those saying the crowd was dead, it absolutely wasn't. I was in attendance. There were definitely sound problems, people on 200 and 300 level could barely hear anything like walkout music and announcers. It probably had something to do with the crowd not translating well on the broadcast. But I can assure you that it was absolutely nuts in the building last night for nearly all the matches
 

Lazybob

Banned
Oct 30, 2017
6,710
It's sounding like the crowd was mainly a mic issue at this point but those people facing the hardcam barely showing reactions at times didn't help. There were long periods where they just sat there with their hands on their laps and no changes in their expressions.
 

KiDdYoNe

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,284
God damn WWE drama on my AEW... That turn was obvious from the few Dynamite shows back when JR (or someone from the casting) said something about proving the loyalty but it's not that. For some reason that match ending was weird from the second MJF had a towel in hand... like, what? And now they're gonna spin it like "welp, I didn't call it myself". Meh.
I'd love if the Cody feud with MJF for a few weeks and be cool about title shot after all... until MJF wins one and Cody shows up right away with an angry face. But that seems like a lot of time.

Besides that, god damn what a show.

MOX vs Omega was something I was missing for a while. And I hope they continue with that, every spot was fine except the maybe for the one with "the thing" but hell that looked great. That was lovely 40 minutes of action.

AEW is great, wish I'd have a chance to see it live.