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AlphaDump

Banned
Oct 29, 2017
244
User Banned (permanent): Dismissing other users' concerns on racism as "talking points to plant more seeds of dissent"; Account in junior phase
I find this OP racist as fuck towards white people, and the anger in this thread is something I dont want to be a part of anymore. This is just talking points to plant more seeds of dissent. If I get banned for this post then fuck it, this forum wasnt worth it anyway.
 

Terraj_RSL

Member
Feb 8, 2018
866
All Lives Matter has always been a dogwhistle used to take away from the main point and focus of the protest.
giphy.gif
 

mollusklover

Banned
Dec 13, 2018
128
So do you think the OP is without merit or arguingbin bad faith. Do you think this would not be an issue if Schumer said it. I'll grant its probable she get it worse because of her gender but that doesnt take away from her gaffe.
I'm arguing if a man does what she does he wouldn't get criticized for what she said. People would excuse it and explain it away. We'd probably get a 'lot of not a good look' posts. That's sort of the go to 'I disagree with what you said but don't criticize you too harshly for saying it'. Instead we have people piling on because they don't like the way Nancy Pelosi looks (Upper class looking women) and can't even take a second to look at her record or how well respected she is. When all this nonsense about a challenge to her speakership started the CBC endorsed her right away. As far as they were concerned it wasn't even a debate.
 

kambaybolongo

Member
Oct 25, 2017
14,071
I find this OP racist as fuck towards white people, and the anger in this thread is something I dont want to be a part of anymore. This is just talking points to plant more seeds of dissent. If I get banned for this post then fuck it, this forum wasnt worth it anyway.
yeah can't imagine why people would be angry about this

/s

congrats on being part of the problem, very cool!
 

the_wart

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,262
Yeah I get being mad at those comments. A charitable reading is that she is weaseling out of saying anything that she thinks will distract from the current messaging around the government shutdown, but even then she could have weaseled better. A not-mutually-exclusive and relatively benign reading is that she is a clueless old white lady who does not get why that particular pivot is infuriating to many people.

Regardless there's hardly anything outrageous about the idea that the Democratic leadership will have to be pushed hard to directly address issues around the treatment of minorities by law-enforcement. I do strongly disagree with the notion that this constitutes a reason to toss the current leadership out, so long as there is no one of similar practical competence to take their place. And Nancy Pelosi is a very good at her job.
 

Briarios

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
1,238
Institutional racism is so strong that a Democrat can't give a straight answer to whether black lives matter to her or not and we have to add a bullshit addendum like "All lives matter" to it. Like is it that hard for one white person with power to say "Black lives matter and we need to do better combating that institutional racism and systemic oppression that at best prevents POC from a level playing field and at worst--destroys and kills them" and even that might not be enough to get the message home.

And spare me this "Another female Dem is being taken down" bull shit. Politicians should be challenged and criticized and called out on their shit.

The problem is -- if you take down your allies, all you'll have left are your enemies. It's no doubt it was a terrible answer -- but, she's at least going to vote for the right things. It's crazy, but the moment Democrats get any power, they eat their own thing to hold them to some level of perfection that we're just not at. Moment in the right direction is movement, and that needs to be celebrated, even when there is more work to do. Sometimes, you just need to move on towards the heavier things.

I have no problem with her being criticized for this, it should be addressed. But, if she's weakend this early in the term, it's just gonna fuck all and the GOP wins.
 

Ramala

Member
Oct 28, 2017
6,052
Santa Monica, LA
While I agree that all lives matter has been used as a protest to the *actual* BLM protest, and was a poor choice of words for Pelosi, I kind of think her message wasn't "yeah but ALM". That doesn't seem like what she was going for. Maybe I'm missing something.
 

Mushroom

Member
Oct 25, 2017
500
The sooner her ilk are disposed off in leadership positions the better, enough of this side stepping shit.
 

Deleted member 19003

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 27, 2017
3,809
I winced when I read she mentioned 'all lives matter', but I'd give Pelosi the benefit of the doubt here. I don't think she had bad intentions. As a female politician especially, she has to couch her words and be careful to walk the line. It should be brought to her attention though.
 

Deleted member 48897

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 22, 2018
13,623
It was 4 years ago since Mike Brown was shot dead in broad daylight in the street. This should not be a hard question. "Yes" is not a hard answer.
 

boontobias

Avenger
Apr 14, 2018
9,547
The second she followed up BLM with ALM, her whole statement fell into the fucking toilet.

There is literally zero reason to bring up ALM here except to signal to those types.

Ugh. There ain't no winning for us, is there? All we can do is keep making noise and calling people out when they make fucking shit statements like this.

Making noise, twitter posts, and hashtags to pressure current politicians to see our way doesnt do shit. Funding and voting for own candidates will
 

Icemonk191

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
3,814
I find this OP racist as fuck towards white people, and the anger in this thread is something I dont want to be a part of anymore. This is just talking points to plant more seeds of dissent. If I get banned for this post then fuck it, this forum wasnt worth it anyway.

White fragility ladies and gentlemen!
 
Oct 25, 2017
16,738
While I agree that all lives matter has been used as a protest to the *actual* BLM protest, and was a poor choice of words for Pelosi, I kind of think her message wasn't "yeah but ALM". That doesn't seem like what she was going for. Maybe I'm missing something.

As a black man. I have no issues with what Pelosi said. But I get why some do. But I also hope many aren't using this to "attack" her. she didn't mean harm. A lot of older well meaning white people will make missteps and it's ok to shed light and correct it. There are some people that want to use this as a "gotcha" moment as well.
 

Deleted member 14377

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 27, 2017
13,520
I find this OP racist as fuck towards white people, and the anger in this thread is something I dont want to be a part of anymore. This is just talking points to plant more seeds of dissent. If I get banned for this post then fuck it, this forum wasnt worth it anyway.

This post is wrong and awful and you should feel bad. All that was missing was "reverse" racism. Try to stick the landing when you create a new account.
 

Autodidact

Member
Oct 25, 2017
18,729
I'll tackle the issue this way:

Pelosi, the most powerful Democrat in the country, gave a poor answer on a gravely important issue. It's unconscionable that people of color face such obstacles in employment, education, justice, and even their right to exist without being brutalized. Our goals should be to redress these inequities comprehensively and compassionately, by tackling systemic racism in all facets of American life: changing the current property-tax funding scheme that deliberately shortchanges public schools in minority-heavy areas; legalizing marijuana and retroactively pardoning the people of color disproportionately affected by the War on Drugs; enacting criminal-justice and sentencing reforms; imposing new standards on law enforcement to deter excessive force and trying to make police forces better represent the communities they police; and amending the Voting Rights Act to tackle voter suppression, perhaps the longest-standing way that people of color are marginalized and disenfranchised. We have a moral obligation to enact these changes, to ensure that people of color receive the rights and protections they've so long deserved but have been denied.

The Democratic Party's leaders, moreover, should try to discuss these issues sensitively and with understanding - and show unconditional support for movements like BLM. I know words matter, and I acknowledge that Pelosi faltered in this regard. I hope she'll use the opportunity to grow and improve.

But I also ask this question: of all the legislative initiatives I listed, do people really think that she wouldn't support them wholeheartedly, especially with a Democratic WH and Senate? If yes, we probably don't have much to discuss.

But I think she does support them. As Kirblar said, the Democrats currently have a huge voting-rights package on the legislative calendar. Whether Pelosi was alluding to it last night, I know not and can't know. I do know, however, that such a bill evinces a commitment to improving the lives of people of color in a tangible way: by increasing their power at the ballot box. If this bill had been law months ago, we'd have Governors Andrew Gillum and Stacey Abrams. She clearly wants to address the issue and has made it a priority.

I'm saying two things: one, judge people by their actions and records. We call Republicans racist (they are) not only because they say racist things but also because they actively oppose measures that would help people of color. Pelosi, conversely, has a sterling record on women's rights, LGBT rights, and most minority rights in general. Her record is one of helping vulnerable people in this country, and I'm not prepared to dismiss someone whose career has been dedicated to that pursuit.

Two, when you teach, you learn that any punishment should be proportional to the offense. If a kid chews gum when he's not supposed to, you don't give him a week of detention. When a politician with a good record makes an awkward or even bad statement, you don't completely dismiss them. You criticize proportionally, tell them what they did wrong, and inform them that you expect better.

I hope Pelosi clarifies or apologizes, and I hope she recognizes why her statement has elicited this reaction and why the rhetoric matters just as much as the initiatives she supports. But I'm not going to use this as an excuse to question or dismiss her leadership, legislative priorities, or commitment to remedying social inequities.

I am not person of color. It is fully possible that I am the one downplaying this because I don't have to personally face the issues that power BLM and would lead to impassioned reactions against her statement. If so, I am willing to listen and learn, but I think we should also be willing to extend the benefit of the doubt to someone who is clearly not an enemy and whose actions have shown her to be an ally.
 

boontobias

Avenger
Apr 14, 2018
9,547
I find this OP racist as fuck towards white people, and the anger in this thread is something I dont want to be a part of anymore. This is just talking points to plant more seeds of dissent. If I get banned for this post then fuck it, this forum wasnt worth it anyway.
OP is talking real life black people who've been murdered and youre offended?
 

kambaybolongo

Member
Oct 25, 2017
14,071
As a black man. I have no issues with what Pelosi said. But I get why some do. But I also hope many aren't using this to "attack" her. she didn't mean harm. A lot of older well meaning white people will make missteps and it's ok to shed light and correct it. There are some people that want to use this as a "gotcha" moment as well.
do you honestly think Pelosi doesn't understand 'all lives matter' is a loaded phrase? She knows exactly what she's doing my dude

these Democrats show their true selves again and again but are always given the benefit of the doubt
 

crienne

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,179
While I agree that all lives matter has been used as a protest to the *actual* BLM protest, and was a poor choice of words for Pelosi, I kind of think her message wasn't "yeah but ALM". That doesn't seem like what she was going for. Maybe I'm missing something.

What she said: "I support the recognition that Black Lives Matter"
What she meant: "I see your cause and support what it means, or something like that, but I'm being cagey and not saying that I support your cause directly cause non-progressive white democrats will eat me alive (or she doesn't actually support it)."

What she said: "All lives matter..."
What she might as well have said: Something along the lines of, "I don't see color/Yes, you have it rough but so does everyone/Why can't we all just get along?"
 

mollusklover

Banned
Dec 13, 2018
128
As a black man. I have no issues with what Pelosi said. But I get why some do. But I also hope many aren't using this to "attack" her. she didn't mean harm. A lot of older well meaning white people will make missteps and it's ok to shed light and correct it. There are some people that want to use this as a "gotcha" moment as well.
Ditto. A lot of concern trolling in this thread.
 

ZeoVGM

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
76,219
Providence, RI
I find this OP racist as fuck towards white people, and the anger in this thread is something I dont want to be a part of anymore. This is just talking points to plant more seeds of dissent. If I get banned for this post then fuck it, this forum wasnt worth it anyway.

My favorite part about this passive aggressive post is that you didn't even try to explain what was racist about it. Just another "poor white people have it so hard" bullshit drive-by comment.
 

vodalus

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
1,220
CT
Everyone knows what all lives matter means. Do you think the Speaker of the House hasn't read a newspaper or website since 2013? If you're pretending Pelosi didn't say what she actually believes - that she could give two shits about BLM - you're either willfully blind or you should really rethink how you perceive the world.
 

Tomohawk

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,014
I'm arguing if a man does what she does he wouldn't get criticized for what she said. People would excuse it and explain it away. We'd probably get a 'lot of not a good look' posts. That's sort of the go to 'I disagree with what you said but don't criticize you too harshly for saying it'. Instead we have people piling on because they don't like the way Nancy Pelosi looks (Upper class looking women) and can't even take a second to look at her record or how well respected she is. When all this nonsense about a challenge to her speakership started the CBC endorsed her right away. As far as they were concerned it wasn't even a debate.
I disagree if Schumer said it I would be raking him over the coals because of how inept he already is. This isnt an attempt to cancel Pelosi just pointing out a problem and discussing it.
 
Oct 30, 2017
707
This is why I always shake my head when Clintonite liberals tut-tut the left about "not speaking to minority issues"

The reality is that the only difference between the two is that one is more adept at paying lip-service
 
Oct 25, 2017
16,738
do you honestly think Pelosi doesn't understand 'all lives matter' is a loaded phrase? She knows exactly what she's doing my dude

these Democrats show their true selves again and again but are always given the benefit of the doubt

Listen. I'm not the biggest fan of Bernie, but he could say the same thing and I'd shrug my shoulders. I see her record and I see what she has on the table as far as votes go. I'm not going to question her leadership or say she doesn't care about black people like some people in this thread are trying to push.
 

Verelios

Member
Oct 26, 2017
14,877
I find this OP racist as fuck towards white people, and the anger in this thread is something I dont want to be a part of anymore. This is just talking points to plant more seeds of dissent. If I get banned for this post then fuck it, this forum wasnt worth it anyway.
giphy.gif


How you made this about you in your mind, I dunno, but okay.
 

Chie Satonaka

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,640
A lot of so called "allies" showing their asses in this thread.

A nice indictment of how trash "liberals" are in general when it comes to black people and black issues.
 

kambaybolongo

Member
Oct 25, 2017
14,071
Listen. I'm not the biggest fan of Bernie, but he could say the same thing and I'd shrug my shoulders. I see her record and I see what she has on the table as far as votes go. I'm not going to question her leadership or say she doesn't care about black people like some people in this thread are trying to push.
Well I guess I disagree on both points. I wouldn't be ok with Bernie spewing all lives matter bs and would be deeply disappointed if he did.

Now, if you can look at Pelosi's record and come away from it thinking shes on the same side as BLM then I have to come to the conclusion that you're either not paying attention, are willfully ignorant, or simply don't care because it doesn't affect you.
 

Ramala

Member
Oct 28, 2017
6,052
Santa Monica, LA
"we really have to redress past grievances in terms of how we addressed the African-American community." This is the part that I think isn't getting discussed enough. It feels like she's falling over her words a little. I interpreted this as "Dems haven't done enough. We haven't responded to the crisis adequately."
 

Mortemis

One Winged Slayer
The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
7,417
My people getting laid out and killed on the streets with the murderers getting vacations for it, and y'all would rather try your hardest to properly stuff out the people fighting it.

When she said all lives matter after saying black lives matter, she said black lives matter but. And some of y'all think that's okay? That it's perfectly fine to pretend black people getting killed by cops is in the past, and that racism is a "past grievance"?

OP is talking real life black people who've been murdered and youre offended?

White fragility at its finest.
 

____

Member
Oct 27, 2017
10,734
Miami, FL
I find this OP racist as fuck towards white people, and the anger in this thread is something I dont want to be a part of anymore. This is just talking points to plant more seeds of dissent. If I get banned for this post then fuck it, this forum wasnt worth it anyway.
Why would your post be bannable?

If you want to be banned just ask the mods. Or, you could just log out?
 

Deleted member 19003

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 27, 2017
3,809
As a black man. I have no issues with what Pelosi said. But I get why some do. But I also hope many aren't using this to "attack" her. she didn't mean harm. A lot of older well meaning white people will make missteps and it's ok to shed light and correct it. There are some people that want to use this as a "gotcha" moment as well.
This is a reasonable take. Now, if in the future Pelosi keeps constantly using the phrase I might side eye her some.
 

Yasuke

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
19,817
I mean you're not wrong, but it's also unfortunately a touchy issue for a lot of white people and she's in a tough position as a politician who represents her entire party, from the solid blue regions to the districts where getting any sort of democrat in power is a ridiculously uphill battle

Black lives mattering being a touchy issue is fucking hysterical.

Jesus Christ, y'all really don't give a shit about us.
 

Mariachi507

Member
Oct 26, 2017
5,300
Yep, that's a Pelosi response. I'll be all on the hype train and then I get a reminder that I shouldn't settle in there. What a fucking disappointment, and right after she regained power.

Let me help you Miss Pelosi...

BLACK LIVES MATTER
 

GaimeGuy

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
5,092
There's a huge difference between "Black lives matter because all lives matter." and "Black lives matter? No. All lives matter. Stop acting like you're special"

But sure, try to make Pelosi out to be the enemy
 

Tfritz

Member
Oct 25, 2017
13,288
"we really have to redress past grievances in terms of how we addressed the African-American community." This is the part that I think isn't getting discussed enough. It feels like she's falling over her words a little. I interpreted this as "Dems haven't done enough. We haven't responded to the crisis adequately."

Any way you shake it, "past grievances" isn't an acceptable thing to say.
 

Shy

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
18,520
It's really depressing that after everything, the fucking dems still wanna boogie their way life. and still want black people (as well as other minorities) to vote for them. While not actually giving a single fuck about them.
 

mollusklover

Banned
Dec 13, 2018
128
User Banned (permanent): Dismissing Concerns of Other Users on Racism; Inflammatory Thread Derail; Account in Junior Phase
part of the problem is even trying to check her is seen as "grabbing pitchforks". she should be able to be criticized over this. without black people being accused of trying to tear the democrats apart or of trying to bring a woman down.
I don't see a lot of constructive criticism. I see opportunists who pretend to care about civil rights and use it as an excuse to tar another woman.
 

Diablos

has a title.
Member
Oct 25, 2017
14,596
In all honesty Pelosi is not the monster some are making her out to be. And I will say right off the top that I'm white so I am not going to pretend I can relate to the fear, anger, confusion, anxiety etc. that black people feel when they may start to get the impression that someone might not be on their side when they thought they would be. But I really do not think Pelosi was trying to play 'both sides' here. At first I thought she was walking a fine line as I posted earlier, but as I read over the quote again I doubt it -- which speaks to a classic Pelosi problem: She's a big brain with a big heart, incredibly gifted, a fighter, progressive, master legislator... but her communication skills are often hit or miss. And this one was a huge miss. She does stuff like this all the time and I don't even think she realizes it. It's classic Pelosi.

So let's look at the quote again:

Well I support the recognition that black lives matter for sure," Pelosi said in response. "And I have incorporated that in many of my statements. I think all lives matter, yes. But we really have to redress past grievances in terms of how we have addressed the African-American community.

She's basically saying:

a. BLM is something she supports. First thing she says. In a literal sense all lives matter, sure, BUT BLM takes priority over a neutral if not careless stance (i.e. ALM), such a stance can't be used as an excuse to minimize BLM and policy initiatives inspired by it BECAUSE

b. We need to redress -- a word that has a literal definition of 'remedy or set right an undesirable or unfair situation' -- past grievances in terms of how we have ADDRESSED the African-American community. She's saying from a policy perspective we have to go back and understand from start to finish how we got here and how we can make things right. And she is correct. We have to go all the way back to the fundamentals. Think about the Voting Rights Act (especially before the conservative Supreme Court gutted it).

That said, she needed to be more direct when talking about a sensitive matter such as this. You can't be nuanced with your wording on these issues. It's a very simple statement but it was phrased very poorly. I would hope that she clarifies.
 
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