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Oct 25, 2017
13,129
Here's the choice short clip:

Here's the full video:

The entire video is necessary viewing. Her name is Kimberly Jones (couldn't fit it in the title).
 

Mekanos

▲ Legend ▲
Member
Oct 17, 2018
44,176
"I think as long as we're focusing on the 'what,' we're not focusing on the 'why.'"
 
Oct 25, 2017
3,535
Yup. Authority figures made it clear laws aren't real by not adhering to the laws themselves. The broken contract point is very important.
 

Doctor_Thomas

Member
Oct 27, 2017
9,654
When peaceful methods have failed, then all you have left is to go to more violent measures and you target the one thing they do care about - money. Looting and rioting costs money and that's why they take notice.
 

sphagnum

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
16,058
She is 100% right, and this is why it's so important to understand the intersection of capitalism and white supremacy. Thanks for posting it!
 

AndrewDean84

Attempted to circumvent ban with alt account
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
11,595
Fontana, California
Wonderfully put. She definitely has changed my thoughts on looting.

Not that I was against it before, just felt reserved. Not so much now. I love it when my views are changed by new perspectives.
 

hjort

Member
Nov 9, 2017
4,096
That was fucking magnificent. Not really a new viewpoint to me, but so well put that it's blowing my mind. And her pain and anger literally has me weeping right now, holy shit.
 

hjort

Member
Nov 9, 2017
4,096
Yeah, her pain and anger are infectious. I don't know her, but I love her. This video is going to stick with me.
Same here. I'm so thankful for this video right now, 'cause I was trying to explain this exact thing to a co-worker yesterday, but I didn't do the best job of it. I bet this video will stick with them too.
 

Midramble

Force of Habit
The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
10,462
San Francisco
Yes to all of that.

"They are LUCKY that what black people are looking for is equality and not revenge"

Yup. People who keep pushing silence will eventually realize that action and inaction has consequences in the rudest way. Keep poking the lion to find out. Stupid games stupid prizes.
 

Deleted member 7130

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
7,685
She's got it right on the nose! The very catalyst for me becoming a leftist (no, not a liberal capitalist) was because I heard someone say "the reason people from Africa were abducted and enslaved en masse was for others to profit from cotton and sugar." It's the same thing this woman is iterating here.

Economics intersect with race and all other types of identity based oppression. They are not mutually exclusive and you can't comprehensively tackle one with out the other.
 
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blackw0lf48

Member
Jan 2, 2019
2,961
This is the part of the Trevor Noah clip that focuses on the social contract (which honestly deserved its own thread)

 

Kasumin

Member
Nov 19, 2017
1,932
When peaceful methods have failed, then all you have left is to go to more violent measures and you target the one thing they do care about - money. Looting and rioting costs money and that's why they take notice.

Exactly. I remember all of the peaceful protests over the past few years that were ignored and outright mocked. It doesn't take a genius to know what's coming next. It made me super nervous. People just don't want to fucking listen.

The problem hasn't been solved. Peaceful methods didn't work. The fuck else are people going to do? Pay attention to history for 5 minutes and it's not really shocking.

Will have to watch these videos later. Appreciate the links.
 
Oct 26, 2017
17,383
I agree with her point about the social contract being broken, which is why when there is rejection against a system that has so thoroughly marginalized and oppressed a community over time after no action has been taken to right the wrong of our history, you cannot expect rebellion to be entirely peaceful and respectful of said system. The rioting and the looting is a natural response to the ignorance of peaceful protest.

However, I don't think looting should be endorsed, promoted, justified or encouraged. Will a company like Target be significantly hurt by this? Of course not, but we cannot generalize all business and property as being owned by large corporations or conglomerates. There are many small businesses being indiscriminately destroyed in the process, many of which are owned by those subject to the same mistreatment that is being protested now. Families are being hurt, their businesses being destroyed after weathering an epidemic where ample compensation was not provided. We cannot rely on the kindness of strangers to donate money to rebuild those businesses, especially considering how long it may take to rebuild and restock; it's far from an instant fix, and there will be serious consequences.

There will be those who don't care either way and will only look out for themselves, taking advantage of the chaos for self benefit; that is an unfortunate casualty in rebellion. But for those who can show restraint, please do. It's easy to get caught up in the moment and try to defend every single action your side of an issue is making, but just because you're on the right side of history doesn't mean everything you're doing is right. Some may be fine with "burning everything down" because they have nothing to lose, but think of all the good people who will get caught up in the flames of those actions.
 
Oct 25, 2017
3,789
This has the same flaw Trevor's video had. The context changed and they're using old talking points. We don't even have sufficient evidence that the black community are the majority of looters. We do have quite a bit of evidence that a fair number were white, and she lays out 3 types of people which I think is to segment whites and blacks (white = rioters, blacks = looters) in her conceptualization but we haven't seen sufficient evidence that there's a strong distinction. Rioters are often looters. These talking points are working to shield the oppressors now. War has changed.

The rest of it checks out though.
 

Addleburg

The Fallen
Nov 16, 2017
5,068
I watched a clip with Stephen Colbert and Keegan-Michael Key last night where they were talking about all the protests, and at one point Stephen tried to make a distinction between the peaceful protests and the looters as being different groups with different aims, and man was I disappointed when Key agreed with him. Yes, some opportunistic people may be using it an opportunity to steal shit, but a lot of the looting and destruction is born from the same anger that fuels the peaceful protests. And what's funny is that Key references the Trevor Noah clip in the same interview!
 

UberTag

The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
15,369
Kitchener, ON
This has the same flaw Trevor's video had. The context changed and they're using old talking points. We don't even have sufficient evidence that the black community are the majority of looters. We do have quite a bit of evidence that a fair number were white, and she lays out 3 types of people which I think is to segment whites and blacks (white = rioters, blacks = looters) in her conceptualization but we haven't seen sufficient evidence that there's a strong distinction. Rioters are often looters. These talking points are working to shield the oppressors now. War has changed.

The rest of it checks out though.
I don't believe she was talking about white folks at all there. Yes, there are white looters but those are just low-life privileged opportunists... and they are inconsequential to this discussion. She was talking about black hurt and black strife and black suffering and giving context for each viewpoint her people have and why those feelings are justified.
 

Emiya777

Banned
Jan 14, 2019
358
I think looting is fine, but if anyone here is gonna do it then I hope you target big corps over local businesses. Something that would wouldn't make a big corporation blink can ruin a whole family's livelihood.
 

ps3ud0

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
1,906
This has the same flaw Trevor's video had. The context changed and they're using old talking points. We don't even have sufficient evidence that the black community are the majority of looters. We do have quite a bit of evidence that a fair number were white, and she lays out 3 types of people which I think is to segment whites and blacks (white = rioters, blacks = looters) in her conceptualization but we haven't seen sufficient evidence that there's a strong distinction. Rioters are often looters. These talking points are working to shield the oppressors now. War has changed.

The rest of it checks out though.
I think it's quite simple.

Protestors are not rioters or looters.
Not all rioters or looters are black.

She very specifically addresses why some black people would resort to looting, because whatever social contract they had was broken by the other party so why fulfill their part.

Don't think either argument encompasses the whole situation.

ps3ud0 8)
 

take_marsh

Member
Oct 27, 2017
7,283
That hit me and she made those points and covered a history of injustice so fucking well. Hundreds of years and nothing much has actually changed when it comes to the bones of this country.

If ya gonna loot, always loot the big ones. This is capitalism. Fuck Target.
 

Fuu

Teyvat Traveler
Member
Oct 27, 2017
4,361
Her full speech is absolutely impeccable. I'll be using that Monopoly analogy in the future.

Regarding the looting, I didn't feel like she was endorsing it necessarily — she was saying it's a natural result of decades of oppression. It's not the what, it's the why. Why do they feel like looting? Yeah, there are people who are simply jackasses among the protesters, but that isn't enough to change the systemic issues she's pointing out.
 

madstarr12

Member
Jan 25, 2018
2,567
What I don't like is that some have also been looting small businesses, including those owned by people of color. They're hurting their own community who is already struggling because of the pandemic. Please stop targeting small businesses who don't have millions of dollars in their bank accounts.
 
Sep 12, 2018
656
Her full speech is absolutely impeccable. I'll be using that Monopoly analogy in the future.

Regarding the looting, I didn't feel like she was endorsing it necessarily — she was saying it's a natural result of decades of oppression. It's not the what, it's the why. Why do they feel like looting? Yeah, there are people who are simply jackasses among the protesters, but that isn't enough to change the systemic issues she's pointing out.

Clothes insecure, food insecure. She said it perfectly.
All those things flaunted in their faces which they cannot afford so yes when the oportunity arises trough broken glass to get that dress, that TV that fucking cantaloupe melon you cannot afford you will take it.
 

Tsuyu

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,633
None of the folks responsible for Global Financial Crisis due to their insatiable greed went to jail anyway.

That's looting, legalized looting in fact.
 

Fuu

Teyvat Traveler
Member
Oct 27, 2017
4,361
Clothes insecure, food insecure. She said it perfectly.
All those things flaunted in their faces which they cannot afford so yes when the oportunity arises trough broken glass to get that dress, that TV that fucking cantaloupe melon you cannot afford you will take it.
Yep. I don't endorse it, but I sure can understand why it happens. And it should never weaken the message of a protest. Hell, in this case the looting even strengthens it.
 

ken_matthews

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
838
I agree with her points about inequality and the social contract, and I understand where she is coming from, but I think people loot for more primal reasons. We pretend that we are civilized and live in a sophisticated society, and that we have sophisticated reasons for why we act, but we really are just a bunch of hairless apes that constantly fight over things we made up or can't share. People loot for the same reasons why parking lots with no lines almost always turn into a mess. Sure, the first few people may try to keep with where they think the lines should be, but it quickly devolves into a cluster fuck and somebody always gets blocked in.
 

samoscratch

Member
Nov 25, 2017
2,841
The people who deserve to suffer never do. I do feel very sorry for business owners who have lost everything though, I have to say.
But I totally understand how we got here and it's 100% understandable and justified all people are asking for is not to be murdered jesus christ.
 

Deleted member 11413

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 27, 2017
22,961
The problem with the concern trolling about looting is that it prioritizes one form of theft (which is fairly small in scale) over the theft of life, of livelihood, of labor, of property, of freedom from black people. Without out those centuries of theft, vast majority of people looting now would not be doing so, because we wouldn't live in a society like we do now and George Floyd and countless others would not be dead. The unrest is a direct result of centuries of theft and oppression that the foundations of this country are built on.

And yes there are opportunists, but that's what our society teaches. Bezos is an opportunist, Jobs was an opportunist, Gates is an opportunist, Buffet is an opportunist, Rockefeller and Carnegie and Ford were opportunists. They all looted, whether it was from the underpaid, undervalued labor of their employees, or from the environment and land, from the idea's of other creators, from the labor and land and property and governments and people of other countries, or from our own government and society in the form of tax breaks and loopholes and lobbying. You think people don't see that, and see the hagiographies of these men, and not internalize that? They do, they recognize it and they want to loot and enrich themselves too. "Rules for thee, but not for me" has been the motto of the country since it was founded, and people see through that and act out because they know this social contract is bullshit and only they are expected to uphold the bargain.

She and Trevor Noah are 100% right. I'm not gonna sit here and act like I like looting and theft. I don't. But I have very little energy for anger at that behavior from these people, given the scale of theft and oppression inflicted upon them. That's what makes me angry.