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Deleted member 10612

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 27, 2017
2,774
I mean, there are plenty of professions where people actually risk their lives - fire-fighters, etc. - and while I appreciate that occasionally CEOs do find themselves in front of a judge, it's far from the norm.

My contention is this: no human being can physically work hard enough, nor be individually skilled enough, to be entitled to a seven figure annual remuneration.
Of course they can be worth that money. People who gave Elon Musk a million dollars ten years ago are now looking at an ROI no one else but him could have achieved, same with Jobs, Gates etc.

You pay top people that cash or else you run a risk of getting Zack Snyder'ed.

Look at Sony. Complete turn around based only on a new CEO. Whatever Sony paid him he deserved it since he made Sony into a company that actually turns a profit again.

At the same time there needs to be a union to get the CEO to share the company's wealth with them. If that's the case it's a win win.
 

Chaos2Frozen

Member
Nov 3, 2017
28,021
News from Jason Schreier:





Activision Blizzard Inc.'s Dennis Durkin will receive awards worth $15 million as part of his appointment to chief financial officer.

Durkin will get $11.3 million of restricted stock tied to operating income and earnings-per-share targets, and a $3.75 million sign-on bonus, the Santa Monica, California-based company said Friday in a regulatory filing. That's on top of his $900,000 salary and a $1.35 million target bonus.

via Bloomberg


That's a 15 million dollars smile right there.
 

Deleted member 41931

User requested account closure
Member
Apr 10, 2018
3,744
They will have trouble continuing to show growth YOY. So I assume they are hoping to balance out slow growth with greater profits.
You need year-over-year growth or you lose the ability to attract investors. When you've grown to be one of the world's biggest video game companies ever there's not much more room to grow by simply making more games at the same costs. It's the parasitic nature of being a public company.
Isn't this more of a symptom from only putting out CoD and Spyro last year, than the costs spent developing the individual titles?
 

Deleted member 37739

User requested account closure
Banned
Jan 8, 2018
908
Of course they can be worth that money. People who gave Elon Musk a million dollars ten years ago are now looking at an ROI no one else but him could have achieved, same with Jobs, Gates etc.

You pay top people that cash or else you run a risk of getting Zack Snyder'ed.

Look at Sony. Complete turn around based only on a new CEO. Whatever Sony paid him he deserved it since he made Sony into a company that actually turns a profit again.

At the same time there needs to be a union to get the CEO to share the company's wealth with them. If that's the case it's a win win.

Having worked within corporate structures for almost a decade, I'd have to disagree.
 
Oct 31, 2017
12,069
People are one surprise medical bill away from having their lives turned upside-down as we witness the end of overtime and stagnant wages, but we worry about CEO/CFO retention. It'd be nice to retain low-level workers and encourage them to really work more by giving them money that makes them feel like they're worth something.
 

test_account

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,645
How else would they be able to pay the 15 million dollars if its not from cutting costs? The money has to come from somewhere :P

To be serious, thats a lot of money. 11.3 million of them are however stocks, so that shouldnt tie into any cost cutting or anything like that. Its not like hes getting 15 million dollars in cash. Still, thats a lot of money.
 

Mizavari

Member
Jan 19, 2018
271
Since people are debating capitalism, I'll throw in my two cents. The main problem with capitalism is that there is a fundamental mismatch between capitalism, which assumes that the goal of everyone is to maximize wealth, and that for some reason doesn't look into the fact that even money itself has diminishing returns, and human psychology. Psychological experiments show that for creative/intellectually demanding tasks (which I assume all C*O tasks are), increasing incentives actually Decreases performance. The best results come from giving people enough so they don't have to worry about their living expenses, and let them do their work. And hell, look at the responses in this thread. If you were to get many times the amount of money you'd need to retire, then you'd just work hard for a year and retire. Right? If I'm already filthy rich, I don't need to care about my job.

The thing is, until a certain point, you associate money with concrete items you need. Beyond that point though, once all your real material needs are satisfied, that extra money is just a number, so to get any satisfaction of out it, people associate money with the next thing that generates some sort of psychological return: affirming their worth through comparing how much they make compared to Others in the industry. The thing is, everybody thinks they're above-average, so people in the position to do so (i.e. people who are buddies with all the people who determine their bonuses) get their packages to keep increasing, starting a war where everyone wants to outdo one another in terms of how much they're paid.

I'm a Chartered Financial Analyst. How much money you make often has little to do with how hard you work or what your competences are, but with how good you are at making money. That's it. You had these billionaire hedge-fund managers who became rich because they conned a bunch of people with promises of huge return, but in fact returned below-market performance after accounting for fees. My parents also knew this girl at their company who bought a few houses, leased them to expats, and got rich off it. That took her no effort at all, she was just good at making money. OTOH, you don't have many super rich scientists or mathematicians, even though entire industries are built upon their discoveries. They're simply not in the type of profession to make big money.

You're probably wondering what the alternatives are. In Nordic countries for example (Finland, Denmark etc.) taxes are shit high, but people also enjoy extremely high standards of living such as some of the world's best education systems with teachers who forego much higher-paying jobs because they get respected, great healthcare, good social protection etc., so they're fine with it. These countries also score highest in the world on happiness indexes. And they score very high as places that are good for business too. As it turns out, high taxes are only a problem if you get shit in return. They're less of a problem if you get a generally awesome place to live in in return.

At its base, part of the problem is that most people actually Believe that money is everything. Money is just a means of getting from others that which you 1. don't get for free, 2. can't make for yourself (ex. if you're good at cooking you save a lot vs restaurant fees, if you exercise you slash medical bills) and 3. can't get from others for free (stuff like the companionship and trust of family and friends). More people are realising all this though, that's why you start to see more people working hard to save up for a few years then doing stuff like going off-grid living in tiny houses where they grow their own food etc.
 

nuoh_my_god

Member
Nov 11, 2017
169
Ireland
sigh...this is one of the reasons why poor people will remains poor......not just because of macro-economical predicaments & situations (which they can't control obviously) but also the lack of objectivity and formulate their entire rationality based on personal emotions (Which they can most definitely control).

You can be upset and dissatisfied about your monetary status & social standings without being angry at 'the other side'...you know....

So funny, you came here and accused other people of being kids when they were rightfully outraged, and then come back with this shit baby argument. Poor people are poor because they're emotional and don't work hard enough.

Anyone who still believes in the lie that is the "American Dream" and similar (which you obviously do, judging by every comment you make) is a god damn mental baby no matter how old they are.
 

chrisypoo

Member
Oct 27, 2017
3,457
Fuck capitalism to hell and back. Shit like this is why I want to move to Norway, this shit just grosses me out to be party to.
 
Feb 10, 2018
17,534
The wolves of the video game industry.
A lot of the high ups at acti, ea seem like wall street guys, just in it for the money.
 

Couscous

Member
Oct 30, 2017
6,089
Twente (The Netherlands)
15 million is absolutely outrageous. I know that you have to incentivise your manager to prevent problems like moral hazard, but I don't know why the amount would have to be this high. The CFO would also be happy with 3 million.
 

Odeko

One Winged Slayer
The Fallen
Mar 22, 2018
15,180
West Blue
I don't understand the issue? A good CFO is easily worth multiple times that for a company as big as Activision, and if they didn't pay him that he'd go work for someone else that would.

They didn't decide to pay him that out of the goodness of their hearts or to just spite all of the other employees, it's just supply and demand. This guy has invaluable skills and experience that are in short supply and high demand.

Plus a one-time cash payment of $4 million dollars is pocket change to a company of that size anyway, so it's not like they won't be able to afford to finish Sekiro because of this or anything.
 
Oct 25, 2017
16,568
I don't understand the issue? A good CFO is easily worth multiple times that for a company as big as Activision, and if they didn't pay him that he'd go work for someone else that would.

They didn't decide to pay him that out of the goodness of their hearts or to just spite all of the other employees, it's just supply and demand. This guy has invaluable skills and experience that are in short supply and high demand.

Plus a one-time cash payment of $4 million dollars is pocket change to a company of that size anyway, so it's not like they won't be able to afford to finish Sekiro because of this or anything.
Yep.
 

El Mariachi

Member
Oct 31, 2017
754
Austria
you dont even know if hes advocating for communism or anything.

capitalism has its problems but those problems can be curbed with good regulation and better wealth distribution programs. both of which much of the western world is lacking right now.

capitalism in its current state is causing massive problems all over the western world, to deny that is putting your head in the sand.
IIRC the world's poverty level has never been as low as it is today...

I'm not saying capitalism is perfect because it ain't. But it's the best system we have and the "good regulation" you speak of is easier said than done. This is a thin thread you are walking on.
 

Kill3r7

Member
Oct 25, 2017
24,397
Isn't this more of a symptom from only putting out CoD and Spyro last year, than the costs spent developing the individual titles?

Not really. They still had Diablo Switch and D2F. They asked Blizzard last year to start reducing development costs after having one of the best (if not the best) years ever.

15 million is absolutely outrageous. I know that you have to incentivise your manager to prevent problems like moral hazard, but I don't know why the amount would have to be this high. The CFO would also be happy with 3 million.

Free market.
 

Odeko

One Winged Slayer
The Fallen
Mar 22, 2018
15,180
West Blue
IIRC the world's poverty level has never been as low as it is today...

I'm not saying capitalism is perfect because it ain't. But it's the best system we have and the "good regulation" you speak of is easier said than done. This is a thin thread you are walking on.
"Eat the rich" I post from my air conditioned apartment with internet and a fridge and a TV and a car and running water and a 40 hour work week and multiple game systems and... you get the picture.

Yes there are obviously big problems that we can work as a society to solve (the big one being the requirement to work to survive), but the problem isn't capitalism itself. Before capitalism 99% of the population was subsistence farmers that lived short, arduous, miserable lives. It's capitalism that made societies rich enough that everyone could live better than the nobels lived in the Middle Ages.
 

ColonelForbin

Member
Oct 28, 2017
601
How is this any different than any other cororwtion
I don't understand the issue? A good CFO is easily worth multiple times that for a company as big as Activision, and if they didn't pay him that he'd go work for someone else that would.

They didn't decide to pay him that out of the goodness of their hearts or to just spite all of the other employees, it's just supply and demand. This guy has invaluable skills and experience that are in short supply and high demand.

Plus a one-time cash payment of $4 million dollars is pocket change to a company of that size anyway, so it's not like they won't be able to afford to finish Sekiro because of this or anything.

The issue is that gamers and business don't mix. Some people think that game companies should not be run Ike a business and instead like some boutique shop that has unlimited funds. Game companies that are not run like a business are not game companies anymore. I personally prefer incentive packages based on company performance than upfront bonuses but it's supply and demand. He's only getting about 4 million upfront and the rest is incentive based. Not really a big deal. I'm sure he's worth it and will do a good job.
 
Last edited:

Deleted member 5596

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
7,747
Capitalism didn't bring people better lives conditions, it was years and years of the worker class fights for their rights and better lives conditions that brought us were we are today. And is clearly not enough, because we are losing many of these rights thanks to the latest crisis.

When capitalism started workers were being put into semi-slave working conditions.
 
Oct 25, 2017
12,319
this is not really unique to activision. this is a capitalism problem.
This isn't an activision problem, it's a capitalism problem. Compare CEO salaries between North America and Europe and prepare to be shocked.
Yeah, unionize and eat.
People are one surprise medical bill away from having their lives turned upside-down as we witness the end of overtime and stagnant wages, but we worry about CEO/CFO retention. It'd be nice to retain low-level workers and encourage them to really work more by giving them money that makes them feel like they're worth something.
Since people are debating capitalism, I'll throw in my two cents. The main problem with capitalism is that there is a fundamental mismatch between capitalism, which assumes that the goal of everyone is to maximize wealth, and that for some reason doesn't look into the fact that even money itself has diminishing returns, and human psychology. Psychological experiments show that for creative/intellectually demanding tasks (which I assume all C*O tasks are), increasing incentives actually Decreases performance. The best results come from giving people enough so they don't have to worry about their living expenses, and let them do their work. And hell, look at the responses in this thread. If you were to get many times the amount of money you'd need to retire, then you'd just work hard for a year and retire. Right? If I'm already filthy rich, I don't need to care about my job.

The thing is, until a certain point, you associate money with concrete items you need. Beyond that point though, once all your real material needs are satisfied, that extra money is just a number, so to get any satisfaction of out it, people associate money with the next thing that generates some sort of psychological return: affirming their worth through comparing how much they make compared to Others in the industry. The thing is, everybody thinks they're above-average, so people in the position to do so (i.e. people who are buddies with all the people who determine their bonuses) get their packages to keep increasing, starting a war where everyone wants to outdo one another in terms of how much they're paid.

I'm a Chartered Financial Analyst. How much money you make often has little to do with how hard you work or what your competences are, but with how good you are at making money. That's it. You had these billionaire hedge-fund managers who became rich because they conned a bunch of people with promises of huge return, but in fact returned below-market performance after accounting for fees. My parents also knew this girl at their company who bought a few houses, leased them to expats, and got rich off it. That took her no effort at all, she was just good at making money. OTOH, you don't have many super rich scientists or mathematicians, even though entire industries are built upon their discoveries. They're simply not in the type of profession to make big money.

You're probably wondering what the alternatives are. In Nordic countries for example (Finland, Denmark etc.) taxes are shit high, but people also enjoy extremely high standards of living such as some of the world's best education systems with teachers who forego much higher-paying jobs because they get respected, great healthcare, good social protection etc., so they're fine with it. These countries also score highest in the world on happiness indexes. And they score very high as places that are good for business too. As it turns out, high taxes are only a problem if you get shit in return. They're less of a problem if you get a generally awesome place to live in in return.

At its base, part of the problem is that most people actually Believe that money is everything. Money is just a means of getting from others that which you 1. don't get for free, 2. can't make for yourself (ex. if you're good at cooking you save a lot vs restaurant fees, if you exercise you slash medical bills) and 3. can't get from others for free (stuff like the companionship and trust of family and friends). More people are realising all this though, that's why you start to see more people working hard to save up for a few years then doing stuff like going off-grid living in tiny houses where they grow their own food etc.
Fuck capitalism to hell and back. Shit like this is why I want to move to Norway, this shit just grosses me out to be party to.
Capitalism didn't bring people better lives conditions, it was years and years of the worker class fights for their rights and better lives conditions that brought us were we are today. And is clearly not enough, because we are losing many of these rights thanks to the latest crisis.

When capitalism started workers were being put into semi-slave working conditions.
Employers always getting shafted. Not just at Activision..
It's time to seize the means of game production, komrades.
 

Mizavari

Member
Jan 19, 2018
271
You know, some of you are starting to talk about capitalism as though it exists in its pure form. Capitalism is just a model, with many variations of implementation, none of which are pure capitalism, and some of which are better than others. I'd go further and say it's just a tool. It's a great tool that brought us lots of good things, but it becomes a problem when it gets treated as the only tool. I hope having breathable air never falls under the jurisdiction of capitalism for example.

Norway, for example, is also a capitalistic country, just one with more government intervention.
 

AlsoZ

Member
Oct 29, 2017
3,003
At the rate Activision is going, that stock might not be worth so much in the near future.
 

CatDoggo

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
775
Why did I know there was going to be a bunch of temporarily embarrassed millionaires in this thread defending this bullshit.
 
Dec 9, 2017
1,431
So it's 11M stock incentive and 3M in cash. Not sure why 3M in cash would have Blizzard up in arms. That's not any where near enough money to change their situation.
 
Oct 31, 2017
12,069
It's time to seize the means of game production, komrades.

I know you're joking around, but you don't need to be a communist to say, "Workers are getting screwed." Other capitalist societies in Europe give workers four weeks vacation and better upward mobility.

You know, some of you are starting to talk about capitalism as though it exists in its pure form. Capitalism is just a model, with many variations of implementation, none of which are pure capitalism, and some of which are better than others. I'd go further and say it's just a tool. It's a great tool that brought us lots of good things, but it becomes a problem when it gets treated as the only tool. I hope having breathable air never falls under the jurisdiction of capitalism for example.

Norway, for example, is also a capitalistic country, just one with more government intervention.

Right, it's more unfettered capitalism that's an issue considering capitalism exists in Europe.
 

low-G

Member
Oct 25, 2017
8,144
I don't understand the issue? A good CFO is easily worth multiple times that for a company as big as Activision, and if they didn't pay him that he'd go work for someone else that would.

They didn't decide to pay him that out of the goodness of their hearts or to just spite all of the other employees, it's just supply and demand. This guy has invaluable skills and experience that are in short supply and high demand.

Plus a one-time cash payment of $4 million dollars is pocket change to a company of that size anyway, so it's not like they won't be able to afford to finish Sekiro because of this or anything.

First, you are incredibly out of touch with reality. You should know that, but I doubt you'll ever see life clearly.

There is a systemic problem. It's not on Activision to fix it, but it appears poorly because of their lowering of production (mantras of less workers, lower quality products, apparently less quantity products). Thus, Activision is a perfect display of dysfunctional capitalism.
 

Tbm24

Member
Oct 25, 2017
16,221
So it's 11M stock incentive and 3M in cash. Not sure why 3M in cash would have Blizzard up in arms. That's not any where near enough money to change their situation.
The reporting should have made more of an effort to highlight that, as pretty much the majority of this thread seems to have missed it.
 

Odeko

One Winged Slayer
The Fallen
Mar 22, 2018
15,180
West Blue
First, you are incredibly out of touch with reality. You should know that, but I doubt you'll ever see life clearly.

There is a systemic problem. It's not on Activision to fix it, but it appears poorly because of their lowering of production (mantras of less workers, lower quality products, apparently less quantity products). Thus, Activision is a perfect display of dysfunctional capitalism.
Thanks, you've really helped me see the light there. I'm on your side now, #fuckapitalism.
 

Wolfgunblood

Member
Dec 1, 2017
2,748
The Land
This is how it works in the corporate world. Executives are driven by various bonuses in their compensation, and will do whatever it takes to get the required numbers that trigger those bonuses. Everyone else in the organization pays the price.
 

Lukas Taves

Banned
Oct 28, 2017
5,713
Brazil
If he managed to save money for Activision why shouldn't he deserve a bonus for it?

His job was to manage his teams and save money, he did it. A developer worried about the salary is important but clearly has way less responsibilities so I don't see why it should receive that same bonus.
 
Oct 27, 2017
7,670
Neoliberalism at its best.
This. If retention is a "problem", disincentivize company hopping at the executive level with special taxes on compensations typically afforded to that group, such as stock options.

Want to see that behavior stop real quick? Put an up front 50 to 70 percent tax on those stock options, for example.
 
Oct 27, 2017
1,696
The reporting should have made more of an effort to highlight that, as pretty much the majority of this thread seems to have missed it.

You expect Schreier not to filter it through his own biases, rather than report it straight? Besides why do you plebs need to have the figure broken down like that when 'CFO gets $15 Million in pay' sells the story.
 

El Mariachi

Member
Oct 31, 2017
754
Austria
Other countries do a lot better than the US (sorry if you arent from the US) and its because they dont regulate and redistribute enough.
No, it's because there is a different national mentality and other things as well. Just because a system works well in one country you can't just take it and put it in place somewhere else. It doesn't work that way.

I see people here referring a lot to Norway. Well, great. Let us just forget that their country immensely profits from oil business and act like every other government out there can govern the same way and just doesn't want to...