The success of the Switch is in a large part due to having the games people want to play there, not just because it's a portable.
The Vita was a portable too.
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(ACE Research Institute) "Looking into Sony's claim that they take Japan seriously"
- Thread starter SinCityAssassin
- Start date
The Vita was a portable too.
User Warned: Inappropriate commentary
PlayStation 5, you will see, will be far and away the winner in Japan when you look at it by March '22. They really, really will. It's something that is going to be a slow burner, and suddenly it's like a tsunami; it will just overtake you.
I think there is still a place for traditional consoles in Japan. The fact that Japanese people prefer the hybrid switch to the cheaper handheld-only lite model tells us that. Obv it's easier to go that way when it has the handheld mode as an option, but that's not the whole story.
The problem for Sony is that although they're not doing much different than those days when the PSX/PS2 were riding high, they didn't need to do much then after the PSX was up and running. They had the most popular console. Cart licensing compared to CD costs made N64 prohibitive and the Saturn was tough to develop for with less powerful 3D abilities, and then the PS2 got the benefit of succeeding the most popular console, having a DVD player and making no real misteps. They got all the games from small pubs without even having to ask for it. SCE Japan worked with a lot of devs to make cool quirky games too (as I said above, I fondly remember Arc the Lad & Jumping Flash).
But when the PS3 arrived the HD costs hit hard and a lot of these games went handheld, mobile, or just disappeared. Sony still got some with PSP to PS3 ports and PSV to PS4 ports, but they have no handhelds now, and the best they'll get is some switch ports and stuff that will sell well in the west. Anything more they'd have to actively encourage. But they're not doing that and they're not making anything with the JP market in mind.
Nintendo's strength is their backbone as a software developer that makes games that the Japanese public want to play, and in turn it's now seeing support from the smaller Japanese devs that are still around. Being playable in handheld mode is certainly a factor, but it's the games in the end - the Wii was still selling like gangbusters in Japan while the PS3 was struggling due to their games. Sony would have to spend a lot of money in the Japanese market to make a difference (to not much short term gain), and given their western success that's just not something they seem interested in doing.
Up until 2018 (I think) Japanese devs submitted their games to PS Japan. I remember it being discussed in the MC thread because a good amount of devs and small publishers didn't even have the linguistical knowledge to complete the process in english.
Yeah, agreed. Bringing up shit like this yet again:
... doesn't exactly cause me to empathize with the writer or any others* concerned about this, let alone care at all about this supposed "problem".
*and unlike what the writer implies, people clutching their pearls about "censorship" are neither exclusively Japanese (if anything there's been more vocal outcry from western gamers), nor representative of all of the Japanese gamer population (as usual, it leaves out women, younger gamers, older gamers, and anyone outside the male teen / young adult demographic). Sony is just becoming more respectful and inclusive, and the traditional young male audience feels left out: this is neither new nor restricted to Japan.
User banned (5 days): Instigating cross-thread drama and community sniping
*Looks at latest posts in the PlayStation Studios OT*
Well that didn't take long at all!
People really underestimate the importance of being extremely active on markets where Xbox is competitive and launches the same time as PS
Comparing Sony's performance in Japan to an incoming tsunami is verrrry very poor wording.
The article also fails to mention the talent is leaving Sony's own studios left and right ( unless I missed it in the article )
add to the fact the ps5 was designed without a single thought of Japanese gamers due to its huge bulky not necessary size.
PS5 will fail in Japan, and it will do okayish in the west but I don't expect it to beat the ps4. Not by along shot .
The price of the console and the new high price for games in this current economy state is pretty much helping not to achieve that high sale.
Also, I am really noticing kids these days leaning toward pc gaming.
Who really know what's gonna happen. But yeah my take is Sony is done in Japan unless they release a psp 2 lol
add to the fact the ps5 was designed without a single thought of Japanese gamers due to its huge bulky not necessary size.
PS5 will fail in Japan, and it will do okayish in the west but I don't expect it to beat the ps4. Not by along shot .
The price of the console and the new high price for games in this current economy state is pretty much helping not to achieve that high sale.
Also, I am really noticing kids these days leaning toward pc gaming.
Who really know what's gonna happen. But yeah my take is Sony is done in Japan unless they release a psp 2 lol
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Why can't the Playstation ecosystem have its own set of standards? I mean, as is, we see enough dubious content to know that those standards are pretty lax.
they didn't really launch the console in japan. they barely shipped any units, and had no launch games that appeal to the japanese market. we'll see how it goes but until the big hitters come (RE, FF, MH), things aren't getting any better. even then i think sony has accepted that they'll have a pretty small market share in japan and i don't think they can do much to fix that.
The PS5 is outselling the PS4 and will be outselling it way past this first year.
I really can't see signs of the PS5 doing worse than PS4...
Is this the chicken or the egg?
PlayStation is the home console model in Japan. If the consumer's mindset has changed towards buying PlayStations then is that because Sony have stopped marketing successfully to them? Or have Sony stopped marketing towards them because they don't buy them anymore?
Obviously the article is trying to point out the former - how gaming itself is still huge business in Japan and the market has changed because there's less desire to buy PlayStations, not because there's less desire to own home gaming consoles.
I guess it's hard to say for sure without a competition filling that home space.
I agree that the Switch is fundamentally more appealing to the Japanese market based on hardware design. I also think it quite evidently has software that is fundamentally more appealing than what PlayStation, including those are predominantly or exclusively enjoyed as a home console experience as show by the success of Ring Fit Adventure and Momotaro Dentetsu.
I also don't think that really changes the point though. Sony could design a PlayStation that is more catered to a Japanese audience, they could produce more content that is catered to a Japanese audience. It is evident that they choose not to do so, regardless of whether that is overall the best strategic decision, not that they are incapable and not that there isn't the potential to do better in Japan.
I would also suggest that it is perhaps presented as a false dichotomy anyway. Sony could probably do a lot more than they are currently doing, and be more successful, without committing to an entirely different vision or without aiming for Switch level success.
Because it makes no sense. You can have a situation where funimation or crunchyroll are available on playstation and you have Sony aquiring licences for series with content their own Playstation division would want censored if it was a game to be released on the platform. And its not just about the weird situation in regards to content of Sony vs Playstation but the whole certification process needing to be in English. How can Sony who as a whole is still a Japanese company be ok with one of its own divisions doing this.
I feel like I didnt find out anything that wasnt already known? Its mainly focusing on some things from the past and that which are true for a long period of time? ... Like, I would really appreciated some bulletproof points that will persuade me about Sony finally giving up on Japan, but I am really not there yet.
Think its really sad to see Japan's gaming market declining like this as it veers more towards pocket gaming and portables. I guess PC could be an option for traditional console game creators, lots of opportunities oversees to offset the downturn in interest by Japanese gamers.
In an ideal world, PlayStation would have two skus and I would be able to have my "Vita Tablet" and PS5 simultaneously. :(
Article resonates as strange to me, tbh. At least as translated. An unusual amount of pathos, talking about hopelessness, being ignored, etc.; the author writes like he expects Sony to listen to him/his publication directly; some of those points were quite weak. It ends up feeling less like genuine analysis and more an attempt to play an outsize role in some drama between Sony and a collection of aggrieved fans.
Find it strange he seems to gloss over the defining difference between the Switch/3DS and the PS4 - portability.
Aside from that, Japanese developers haven't really stepped up to the plate on the PS5 yet either - even Yakuza's PS5 version was delayed.
That he made such a big deal of the censorship push as well is uhhh. strange.
IDK, I don't really feel like his analysis is particularly comprehensive.
Aside from that, Japanese developers haven't really stepped up to the plate on the PS5 yet either - even Yakuza's PS5 version was delayed.
That he made such a big deal of the censorship push as well is uhhh. strange.
IDK, I don't really feel like his analysis is particularly comprehensive.
By "giving up" I think it more means not focusing on Japan. They are now just another market - they don't get any games published by Sony that are specifically targetted at them, they don't get much stock, the "X/O" thing is gone, pubs can no longer go to SCEJ for publishing permission, etc...
Yup and they dont need to cause 3rd party studios run to them when they release a big game like FF7R, Persona 5, Nioh 2, ect
Well, i dont a see problem with that. If they came to a conclusion that its just not worth it and cant be fixed... i dont really get the fuss about it. It was worse and worse by every year yet people act surprised.
They never really tried though. It's not like they were publishing lots of games targetted at the market and they all flopped.
The PS4 sold more than the Vita in Japan. Portability plays a big role but it's not everything.
It's impossible to get a PS5 in Japan legit and Japanese players are really showing how good they are at still keeping it up and enduring it out through these hard times of scarcity. Linining up outside stores for many hours each couple of days without knowing if there will be stock or not is something those living in the big cities can do. The rest of the brave players who lives on the countryside are totally left to the maddening buying-ticket-lotteries, and only those that accept delivery and not only pick-up. They have also to have a previous purchase record and membership in that particular store. Other option is to try to be faster than the bots on Rakuten and Amazon. There is no pre-order system!
Who knows when those people who are left to the lotteries and bot-fights will be able to snag a PS5 from a scalper?
Japanese people never stands up and talk out loud - not even when idiots places themselves before them in unorganized qeues for PS5 outside electronics dept stores.
They are mostly loud on Twitter and a few super otaku message boards like 2chan and maybe GameSpark.
But I think they always hope things should work properly since PlayStation once was a proper Japanese company.
When they slowly realize they have been sidelined for the worse they might start to protest, hopefully.
But the large risk is that they will just lose interest and feel Sony doesn't care about them.
MS Gamepass is very difficult to grasp for a newcomer - and since there are few Japanese players who can explain it, they might not give it a chance. But since Japanese people wants to play with other Japanese people, once more and more people jump to xbox it might be too late for Sony to win them back if the PS5 scarcity prevails for too long...
edit. and if we get a Switch Pro in 2021 offering similar gameplay on TV such as PS5.
Who knows when those people who are left to the lotteries and bot-fights will be able to snag a PS5 from a scalper?
Japanese people never stands up and talk out loud - not even when idiots places themselves before them in unorganized qeues for PS5 outside electronics dept stores.
They are mostly loud on Twitter and a few super otaku message boards like 2chan and maybe GameSpark.
But I think they always hope things should work properly since PlayStation once was a proper Japanese company.
When they slowly realize they have been sidelined for the worse they might start to protest, hopefully.
But the large risk is that they will just lose interest and feel Sony doesn't care about them.
MS Gamepass is very difficult to grasp for a newcomer - and since there are few Japanese players who can explain it, they might not give it a chance. But since Japanese people wants to play with other Japanese people, once more and more people jump to xbox it might be too late for Sony to win them back if the PS5 scarcity prevails for too long...
edit. and if we get a Switch Pro in 2021 offering similar gameplay on TV such as PS5.
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I agree but I feel like you may have inadvertently hit the nail on the head there. The male teen / young adult demographic is pretty much the entire PlayStation audience in Japan; those other demographics are already not playing games on PlayStation platforms but instead on the Switch or mobile. They also haven't made any attempt to actually expand their demographics in any other way since those policies came into being.
I'm don't think it's a great idea but Japanese third parties would 100% be straight on board for a PS equivalent of the Switch.
Of course it's not everything, but the Vita had library issues as well that the PS4 didn't have, and that the Switch/3DS also didn't have.
But if we were to compare consoles based on library, portable will win handily in Japan.
The competition for Sony in Japan is the Switch not Xbox.
It might not have been a direct competition in 2017/2018 but since then they have been sharing more and more of their libraries which makes them frontal competitors.
Please See the LTD of Vita and PS4 and JP% Contribution to the Hardware and Software on overall WW.
PS4 Sold More than Vita because it had a mainline final fantasy, Monster Hunter and Dragon Quest which Vita didnt.
I don't see how that expands their audience, though. Take Dead or Alive Xtreme 3, for example. That game was changed on PS4 to comply with Sony's new policies. However, it doesn't change what DOAX3 is at its core, it's still a pervy game. I don't know if there are any significant number of people who were not going to buy the game who all of a sudden decided to do so because of those changes. What they need to do is actually make games appealing to those audiences.
Every Japanese gamer are getting a Switch AND an Action, FPS, mature games console or PC.
CoD and Apex are really popular here. Aswell as MHW and FF14.
If Nintendo can release a Switch Pro which can offer those type of experiences, Sony might lose even more here.
I personally think it's worth the investment from them. While Japan as a market is shrinking, it is still home to many valuable developers. If nothing else, Sony should make sure they maintain a solid presence in the region in order to keep those games coming. They say it's an important market but their actions make them appear apathetic towards the region, as they seem content to just have third parties do the heavy lifting.
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They are not, they are using the progress graph that happens to have 25 weeks, but are focusing on just the first weeks of those consoles.
Kind of my overall point. Which is that software is a big reason for Sony's comparative "problems" in Japan and not simply that they make consoles instead of portables.
They're comparing the first six weeks of every device launch aligned. Currently, the PS5 is the worst performing of them all, excluding Xbox devices.
There are a couple of problems with this argument. First, the Switch Lite. If the handheld nature of the Switch is supposedly the main appeal you'd think the Switch Lite would sell pretty well, potentially on par or higher than the hybrid model. But it isn't, even in Japan. The demand for the Lite is far below the demand for the hybrid. That signals that the home functionality of it is important to the majority of the market.
Second, some of the biggest games on the system are home console games that need to be played on a TV. Specifically, the biggest seller this holiday is Momotaru Dententsu which is essentially a local multiplayer board game which is played as a home console game and not a handheld game. If people in Japan didn't value home consoles then it wouldn't sell like this because people wouldn't be using the Switch as a home console.
Of course the exact hardware of the Switch is definitely having some effect on the demand moreso than a traditional home console would but there's an enormous gulf between selling ~25-30M like Switch will sell and the ~7-8M the PS5 will sell. Putting out software appealing to the Japanese audience is something extremely important in getting such an install base and Sony isn't interested in doing that.
And it's hard to really blame them for that considering how it'll do worldwide, but it's silly to act like there's nothing they could do to push a home console better in Japan.
CoD popularity dropped since 2018. It sold 500k+ back then and will now struggle to reach 200k. Fortnite is more popular on Switch as shown by the sales of the last Fortnite pack which charted only on Switch. Apex is even coming to Switch soon (next month apparently).
Sony has a big competitive edge on Western games but these have been dropping in popularity in the past 2-3 years or so. They'll have their audience but it is an increasingly small one.
This entire comparison with Spain doesn't serve the point that Sony is sidelining Japan.
AFAIK weekly shipments for Japan are higher than Spains. LTD numbers should show a massive gap as well (Japan: 255k, Spain: 80-90k I think). Considering PS4 has done really well in Spain, I always wonder why there are no angry people complaining about sidelining Spain.
As I added to my post:
MHW and FF14 is also not yet on Switch.
If Nintendo can release a Switch Pro which can offer those type of experiences, Sony might lose even more here.
That's just dumb, you can't put things like this. Spain is a way smaller market than Japan both in demographics and video game sales.
The fact that PS5's first 6 weeks in Japan is still inferior to the Day 1 shipment in the UK, when JP is the 2nd market for PS4 hardware should tell you everything you know. It's been put in the Tier 2 countries, which is equivalent to being sidelined.
A key difference would be that PS5 had one of the biggest(if not THE biggest) launches of all time in Spain whereas that is far from true in Japan.
Switch has a new Monster Hunter launching in 2 months, which is offering the type of experience that MHW does. I think Switch's effect on PlayStation is perhaps overestimated but it doesn't have to account for the totality of PS software to be effective competition, just enough of it to make it easy to skip what is missing.
True that's a good point. There are definitely some big franchises that are still missing on Switch like Final Fantasy or Kingdom Hearts.
However, Monster Hunter is not one of them as Rise is coming on March 26th and will be supported for around 2 years.
I agree but portability plays a much big factor
Having few Home Consoles Games as a sample doesn't prove anything considering the importance of portability in Japan. The system is a hybrid and is marketed as a hybrid , der is some merit of certain home console games doing well because there has always been a market of dedicated home console just not as big as portable
I dont buy the point of Hybrid vs Lite factor either when it comes to sales.
If Standard PS5 edition sells more 80:20 ratio compared to digital only console, would that mean software sales ratio will reflect the same ?